DaShi.1368 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 > @"Dengar.1785" said: > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > > @"Dengar.1785" said: > > > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > > > > @"Dengar.1785" said: > > > > > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > > > > > > @"AnClar.1304" said: > > > > > > > Thank you Mo and Anet for dealing with what must have been a very difficult situation. Especially in this day and age, where civility between people seems to be a disappearing trait, it is refreshing to see companies do the right thing and show that they believe in treating and communicating with others, even with others with whom we disagree, courteously and respectfully. It's always unfortunate when people lose their jobs because of poor judgement, lack of self-control, and basic lack of decency and courtesy. Nevertheless you did the right thing to show support for the community and to not tolerate personal attacks on the part of your employees. For that I am grateful. > > > > > > > > > > > > So companies should fire their employees whenever they are uncivil? That seems like it would open a whole can of worms. Is that what you meant? > > > > > > > > > > Would you keep a shop clerk on you staff if they insult their customers, makes them uncomfortable, tell their friends about it, and cause customers to find a different place to shop at? > > > > > > > > That's a strawman. > > > > > > I promise I will believe your words if you can explain how it is a strawman. > > > > JP is not a store clerk, was not acting in a role anywhere close to being store clerk. You used that example because it's easier to defend than what actually happened. > > It’s called an analogy. Replace “store clerk” with “dev”, and “shop” with “game”. > > I can’t believe I even have to explain this. Um...do you know what a strawman is? Its' an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument. That's what you did. Store clerk != dev. Shop != game. If you can't agree to this, we can't have a further conversation on this topic. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batel.9206 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > @"Dengar.1785" said: > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > > > So, for the people who defend Price, please explain this to me: why are her actions acceptable? Why is what she said appropriate? Why is celebrating the death of a well-known streamer okay? Why is cursing someone out with no provocation a good thing to do? > > > > > > > > > > "Confronting sexism" isn't a valid excuse here. As Saelenthi pointed out, tone is infamously difficult to discern on the internet. Where is the sexism in Deroir's post? And EVEN IF THERE WAS, Price is an employee at a company, PUBLICLY REPRESENTING that company. It is her JOB to be one of the public faces of that company, to be professional and polite, because she does not represent herself, she represents the company. Privately - to a friend on the phone or in person or whatever - she's free to complain all she wants! But NOT in a public space, and NOT while she is representing a company. > > > > > > > > Tone is difficult to discern, but discern it you must...otherwise all written words would be toneless, and there would be no reason to read or write novels, in which you often have to discern the tone of the author...would be the same in this case, and a lot of use determined that the tone of, at least for me, the last tweet from Deroir, was condescending. > > > > > > > > Also, she's not in PR, she's in Narrative, if she was in PR then it would be her job to one of the public faces of the company, but seeing as she worked in Narrative and not PR, it shouldn't be, not everyone is cutout to do PR work, which is why you have people that specialize in PR. > > > > > > > > It appears to me that a lot of people want their speech controlled by who they work for when that speech is in a public space...it reminds how we've taken a complete 180 from the original Greeks, those people that had specific corners where someone could stand up and say anything they wanted...do any of you remember that from Greek history, of course it also started to turn away from being completely free public speech during those same times...so we've been doing this to each other for eons now. > > > > > > We don’t want to control speech, we just want people to show some respect to their fellow human beings. > > > > This, exactly. I'm all for free speech. People have fought and died in wars for that precious freedom. > > I'm also all for professional courtesy, responsibility, and self control. > > > > Saying that not everyone is cut out for PR work is basically giving an excuse to Price's words. "Well, she's not in PR, so how could she have been expected to behave civilly?" Because she's representing a company. Because her twitter account is not private. Because as a representative of that company, she has a responsibility to act professionally. Because she's a human being and should therefore realize that flying off the handle to a politely dissenting opinion, just because of some *perceived* insult or agenda, is *probably* an overreaction to the extreme. Freedom of speech also means that you take responsibility for your words. Deroir did. Price did not. > > But Price wasn't representing the company in that context. And no, her putting that she works for Anet in her bio doesn't mean that. A lot of people, especially in her field do that for networking. She didn't mention Anet once in her tweets. She just wanted to talk about game design. > > Now I'm not going to disagree with you that she was uncivil in her response. But to connect it to her career is unfair. Where do you draw the line? How many people here should be fired for the comments they made? Yes, she was representing the company. If I work for a coffee shop and I wear a t-shirt with the words "proud employee of [coffee shop]" on it, even though I'm not at work, I'm representing that company and publicly proclaiming the fact that I'm an employee there. Price was publicly proclaiming she was an employee of ArenaNet. She was representing the company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 > @"DaShi.1368" said: > How can we even begin a conversation if you aren't even will to see a bit of my side? I understand very well where you are coming from. I understand the underpinnings and privilege that brought about that way of thinking. I'm sympathetic too. But I've rarely seen anyone who says what you say even consider the other side. And I'm not seeing that here. How about by using facts at play.... Show me derior being sexist, show me him being condescending... Show me him belittling and berating her ? While you do that i'll remind you of this - https://clips.twitch.tv/CrypticMistyStingrayDxCat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manasa Devi.7958 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 > @"Zaklex.6308" said:> It appears to me that a lot of people want their speech controlled by who they work for when that speech is in a public space...it reminds how we've taken a complete 180 from the original Greeks, those people that had specific corners where someone could stand up and say anything they wanted...do any of you remember that from Greek history, of course it also started to turn away from being completely free public speech during those same times...so we've been doing this to each other for eons now. Let me quote the immortal wisdom of J. Price: "Shdn't have to keep saying, but 1st only protects from gov censorship. Social/financial consequences are FREE SPEECH WORKING AS INTENDED." http://archive.is/qnRGu#selection-3499.0-3499.137 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaShi.1368 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > How can we even begin a conversation if you aren't even will to see a bit of my side? I understand very well where you are coming from. I understand the underpinnings and privilege that brought about that way of thinking. I'm sympathetic too. But I've rarely seen anyone who says what you say even consider the other side. And I'm not seeing that here. > > How about by using facts at play.... > > Show me derior being sexist, show me him being condescending... > > Show me him belittling and berating her ? > > While you do that i'll remind you of this - https://clips.twitch.tv/CrypticMistyStingrayDxCat > > I can't. It's been demonstrated to the best of my abilities and others. If you can't see it, we are simply at different places. I guess, show me how it's not. I don't have other ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dengar.1785 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > @"Dengar.1785" said: > > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > > > @"Dengar.1785" said: > > > > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > > > > > @"Dengar.1785" said: > > > > > > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > > > > > > > @"AnClar.1304" said: > > > > > > > > Thank you Mo and Anet for dealing with what must have been a very difficult situation. Especially in this day and age, where civility between people seems to be a disappearing trait, it is refreshing to see companies do the right thing and show that they believe in treating and communicating with others, even with others with whom we disagree, courteously and respectfully. It's always unfortunate when people lose their jobs because of poor judgement, lack of self-control, and basic lack of decency and courtesy. Nevertheless you did the right thing to show support for the community and to not tolerate personal attacks on the part of your employees. For that I am grateful. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So companies should fire their employees whenever they are uncivil? That seems like it would open a whole can of worms. Is that what you meant? > > > > > > > > > > > > Would you keep a shop clerk on you staff if they insult their customers, makes them uncomfortable, tell their friends about it, and cause customers to find a different place to shop at? > > > > > > > > > > That's a strawman. > > > > > > > > I promise I will believe your words if you can explain how it is a strawman. > > > > > > JP is not a store clerk, was not acting in a role anywhere close to being store clerk. You used that example because it's easier to defend than what actually happened. > > > > It’s called an analogy. Replace “store clerk” with “dev”, and “shop” with “game”. > > > > I can’t believe I even have to explain this. > > Um...do you know what a strawman is? Its' an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument. > > That's what you did. Store clerk != dev. Shop != game. If you can't agree to this, we can't have a further conversation on this topic. Sorry. So... I have to agree to a completely obvious statement about a claim I never made? Well sure, if that’s what you want. Not sure why, but fine. “A clerk is not a dev, and a game is not a shop” There, happy? Now explain to me who is allegedly (and intentionally?) being misrepresented and how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaShi.1368 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 > @"Batel.9206" said: > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > > @"Dengar.1785" said: > > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > > > > So, for the people who defend Price, please explain this to me: why are her actions acceptable? Why is what she said appropriate? Why is celebrating the death of a well-known streamer okay? Why is cursing someone out with no provocation a good thing to do? > > > > > > > > > > > > "Confronting sexism" isn't a valid excuse here. As Saelenthi pointed out, tone is infamously difficult to discern on the internet. Where is the sexism in Deroir's post? And EVEN IF THERE WAS, Price is an employee at a company, PUBLICLY REPRESENTING that company. It is her JOB to be one of the public faces of that company, to be professional and polite, because she does not represent herself, she represents the company. Privately - to a friend on the phone or in person or whatever - she's free to complain all she wants! But NOT in a public space, and NOT while she is representing a company. > > > > > > > > > > Tone is difficult to discern, but discern it you must...otherwise all written words would be toneless, and there would be no reason to read or write novels, in which you often have to discern the tone of the author...would be the same in this case, and a lot of use determined that the tone of, at least for me, the last tweet from Deroir, was condescending. > > > > > > > > > > Also, she's not in PR, she's in Narrative, if she was in PR then it would be her job to one of the public faces of the company, but seeing as she worked in Narrative and not PR, it shouldn't be, not everyone is cutout to do PR work, which is why you have people that specialize in PR. > > > > > > > > > > It appears to me that a lot of people want their speech controlled by who they work for when that speech is in a public space...it reminds how we've taken a complete 180 from the original Greeks, those people that had specific corners where someone could stand up and say anything they wanted...do any of you remember that from Greek history, of course it also started to turn away from being completely free public speech during those same times...so we've been doing this to each other for eons now. > > > > > > > > We don’t want to control speech, we just want people to show some respect to their fellow human beings. > > > > > > This, exactly. I'm all for free speech. People have fought and died in wars for that precious freedom. > > > I'm also all for professional courtesy, responsibility, and self control. > > > > > > Saying that not everyone is cut out for PR work is basically giving an excuse to Price's words. "Well, she's not in PR, so how could she have been expected to behave civilly?" Because she's representing a company. Because her twitter account is not private. Because as a representative of that company, she has a responsibility to act professionally. Because she's a human being and should therefore realize that flying off the handle to a politely dissenting opinion, just because of some *perceived* insult or agenda, is *probably* an overreaction to the extreme. Freedom of speech also means that you take responsibility for your words. Deroir did. Price did not. > > > > But Price wasn't representing the company in that context. And no, her putting that she works for Anet in her bio doesn't mean that. A lot of people, especially in her field do that for networking. She didn't mention Anet once in her tweets. She just wanted to talk about game design. > > > > Now I'm not going to disagree with you that she was uncivil in her response. But to connect it to her career is unfair. Where do you draw the line? How many people here should be fired for the comments they made? > > Yes, she was representing the company. If I work for a coffee shop and I wear a t-shirt with the words "proud employee of [coffee shop]" on it, even though I'm not at work, I'm representing that company and publicly proclaiming the fact that I'm an employee there. Price was publicly proclaiming she was an employee of ArenaNet. She was representing the company. Is this your opinion? Or is there something to back it up? You are basically arguing that people are entirely subservient to their employers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Mansplaining isn't a thing. I know because my sister told me so. She definitely knows better than me, because her naughty bits give her perfect knowledge of both what it is like to be a woman _and_ what it is like to be a man, whereas mine don't for some reason. The moral of the story is this: never trust anyone who tells you not to think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGS.9842 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > > > @"Dengar.1785" said: > > > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > > > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > > > > > So, for the people who defend Price, please explain this to me: why are her actions acceptable? Why is what she said appropriate? Why is celebrating the death of a well-known streamer okay? Why is cursing someone out with no provocation a good thing to do? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Confronting sexism" isn't a valid excuse here. As Saelenthi pointed out, tone is infamously difficult to discern on the internet. Where is the sexism in Deroir's post? And EVEN IF THERE WAS, Price is an employee at a company, PUBLICLY REPRESENTING that company. It is her JOB to be one of the public faces of that company, to be professional and polite, because she does not represent herself, she represents the company. Privately - to a friend on the phone or in person or whatever - she's free to complain all she wants! But NOT in a public space, and NOT while she is representing a company. > > > > > > > > > > > > Tone is difficult to discern, but discern it you must...otherwise all written words would be toneless, and there would be no reason to read or write novels, in which you often have to discern the tone of the author...would be the same in this case, and a lot of use determined that the tone of, at least for me, the last tweet from Deroir, was condescending. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, she's not in PR, she's in Narrative, if she was in PR then it would be her job to one of the public faces of the company, but seeing as she worked in Narrative and not PR, it shouldn't be, not everyone is cutout to do PR work, which is why you have people that specialize in PR. > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears to me that a lot of people want their speech controlled by who they work for when that speech is in a public space...it reminds how we've taken a complete 180 from the original Greeks, those people that had specific corners where someone could stand up and say anything they wanted...do any of you remember that from Greek history, of course it also started to turn away from being completely free public speech during those same times...so we've been doing this to each other for eons now. > > > > > > > > > > We don’t want to control speech, we just want people to show some respect to their fellow human beings. > > > > > > > > This, exactly. I'm all for free speech. People have fought and died in wars for that precious freedom. > > > > I'm also all for professional courtesy, responsibility, and self control. > > > > > > > > Saying that not everyone is cut out for PR work is basically giving an excuse to Price's words. "Well, she's not in PR, so how could she have been expected to behave civilly?" Because she's representing a company. Because her twitter account is not private. Because as a representative of that company, she has a responsibility to act professionally. Because she's a human being and should therefore realize that flying off the handle to a politely dissenting opinion, just because of some *perceived* insult or agenda, is *probably* an overreaction to the extreme. Freedom of speech also means that you take responsibility for your words. Deroir did. Price did not. > > > > > > But Price wasn't representing the company in that context. And no, her putting that she works for Anet in her bio doesn't mean that. A lot of people, especially in her field do that for networking. She didn't mention Anet once in her tweets. She just wanted to talk about game design. > > > > > > Now I'm not going to disagree with you that she was uncivil in her response. But to connect it to her career is unfair. Where do you draw the line? How many people here should be fired for the comments they made? > > > > Yes, she was representing the company. If I work for a coffee shop and I wear a t-shirt with the words "proud employee of [coffee shop]" on it, even though I'm not at work, I'm representing that company and publicly proclaiming the fact that I'm an employee there. Price was publicly proclaiming she was an employee of ArenaNet. She was representing the company. > > Is this your opinion? Or is there something to back it up? You are basically arguing that people are entirely subservient to their employers. I hear you are familiar with the strawman fallacy. You might want to look at that last sentence you wrote again ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > > > @"Dengar.1785" said: > > > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > > > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > > > > > So, for the people who defend Price, please explain this to me: why are her actions acceptable? Why is what she said appropriate? Why is celebrating the death of a well-known streamer okay? Why is cursing someone out with no provocation a good thing to do? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Confronting sexism" isn't a valid excuse here. As Saelenthi pointed out, tone is infamously difficult to discern on the internet. Where is the sexism in Deroir's post? And EVEN IF THERE WAS, Price is an employee at a company, PUBLICLY REPRESENTING that company. It is her JOB to be one of the public faces of that company, to be professional and polite, because she does not represent herself, she represents the company. Privately - to a friend on the phone or in person or whatever - she's free to complain all she wants! But NOT in a public space, and NOT while she is representing a company. > > > > > > > > > > > > Tone is difficult to discern, but discern it you must...otherwise all written words would be toneless, and there would be no reason to read or write novels, in which you often have to discern the tone of the author...would be the same in this case, and a lot of use determined that the tone of, at least for me, the last tweet from Deroir, was condescending. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, she's not in PR, she's in Narrative, if she was in PR then it would be her job to one of the public faces of the company, but seeing as she worked in Narrative and not PR, it shouldn't be, not everyone is cutout to do PR work, which is why you have people that specialize in PR. > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears to me that a lot of people want their speech controlled by who they work for when that speech is in a public space...it reminds how we've taken a complete 180 from the original Greeks, those people that had specific corners where someone could stand up and say anything they wanted...do any of you remember that from Greek history, of course it also started to turn away from being completely free public speech during those same times...so we've been doing this to each other for eons now. > > > > > > > > > > We don’t want to control speech, we just want people to show some respect to their fellow human beings. > > > > > > > > This, exactly. I'm all for free speech. People have fought and died in wars for that precious freedom. > > > > I'm also all for professional courtesy, responsibility, and self control. > > > > > > > > Saying that not everyone is cut out for PR work is basically giving an excuse to Price's words. "Well, she's not in PR, so how could she have been expected to behave civilly?" Because she's representing a company. Because her twitter account is not private. Because as a representative of that company, she has a responsibility to act professionally. Because she's a human being and should therefore realize that flying off the handle to a politely dissenting opinion, just because of some *perceived* insult or agenda, is *probably* an overreaction to the extreme. Freedom of speech also means that you take responsibility for your words. Deroir did. Price did not. > > > > > > But Price wasn't representing the company in that context. And no, her putting that she works for Anet in her bio doesn't mean that. A lot of people, especially in her field do that for networking. She didn't mention Anet once in her tweets. She just wanted to talk about game design. > > > > > > Now I'm not going to disagree with you that she was uncivil in her response. But to connect it to her career is unfair. Where do you draw the line? How many people here should be fired for the comments they made? > > > > Yes, she was representing the company. If I work for a coffee shop and I wear a t-shirt with the words "proud employee of [coffee shop]" on it, even though I'm not at work, I'm representing that company and publicly proclaiming the fact that I'm an employee there. Price was publicly proclaiming she was an employee of ArenaNet. She was representing the company. > > Is this your opinion? Or is there something to back it up? You are basically arguing that people are entirely subservient to their employers. If said people are: - talking about work related things - have made very clear whom they work for (via clothing for example) - have used said work relation to garner credibility - to fans of said company - have their company in their twitter bio - have not set their profile to private Then yes, they are representing the company even in their free time and on their social media account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 > @"DaShi.1368" said: > I can't. It's been demonstrated to the best of my abilities and others. If you can't see it, we are simply at different places. I guess, show me how it's not. I don't have other ideas. I can't see what's not there. You're absolutely correct. I'm well aware that sexism and other various issues plague us on a day to day basis. Every day i have to deal with playing nice due to the color of my skin, less i risk being shot. You know what i've also learned, that not every shadow is out to get me. Something that apparently you're missing because you really seem to enjoy labeling an innocent person as condescending and apparently a sexist since you agree with Jessica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkReign.4503 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Some of the people defending her are maybe doing it to get a rise out of people now, at least seems that way. When I saw this person's video (Deroir) where he was praising Jessica for her work it makes no sense that he meant anything negative towards her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimaistanza.4793 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > @"Dengar.1785" said: > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > > > So, for the people who defend Price, please explain this to me: why are her actions acceptable? Why is what she said appropriate? Why is celebrating the death of a well-known streamer okay? Why is cursing someone out with no provocation a good thing to do? > > > > > > > > > > "Confronting sexism" isn't a valid excuse here. As Saelenthi pointed out, tone is infamously difficult to discern on the internet. Where is the sexism in Deroir's post? And EVEN IF THERE WAS, Price is an employee at a company, PUBLICLY REPRESENTING that company. It is her JOB to be one of the public faces of that company, to be professional and polite, because she does not represent herself, she represents the company. Privately - to a friend on the phone or in person or whatever - she's free to complain all she wants! But NOT in a public space, and NOT while she is representing a company. > > > > > > > > Tone is difficult to discern, but discern it you must...otherwise all written words would be toneless, and there would be no reason to read or write novels, in which you often have to discern the tone of the author...would be the same in this case, and a lot of use determined that the tone of, at least for me, the last tweet from Deroir, was condescending. > > > > > > > > Also, she's not in PR, she's in Narrative, if she was in PR then it would be her job to one of the public faces of the company, but seeing as she worked in Narrative and not PR, it shouldn't be, not everyone is cutout to do PR work, which is why you have people that specialize in PR. > > > > > > > > It appears to me that a lot of people want their speech controlled by who they work for when that speech is in a public space...it reminds how we've taken a complete 180 from the original Greeks, those people that had specific corners where someone could stand up and say anything they wanted...do any of you remember that from Greek history, of course it also started to turn away from being completely free public speech during those same times...so we've been doing this to each other for eons now. > > > > > > We don’t want to control speech, we just want people to show some respect to their fellow human beings. > > > > This, exactly. I'm all for free speech. People have fought and died in wars for that precious freedom. > > I'm also all for professional courtesy, responsibility, and self control. > > > > Saying that not everyone is cut out for PR work is basically giving an excuse to Price's words. "Well, she's not in PR, so how could she have been expected to behave civilly?" Because she's representing a company. Because her twitter account is not private. Because as a representative of that company, she has a responsibility to act professionally. Because she's a human being and should therefore realize that flying off the handle to a politely dissenting opinion, just because of some *perceived* insult or agenda, is *probably* an overreaction to the extreme. Freedom of speech also means that you take responsibility for your words. Deroir did. Price did not. > > But Price wasn't representing the company in that context. And no, her putting that she works for Anet in her bio doesn't mean that. A lot of people, especially in her field do that for networking. She didn't mention Anet once in her tweets. She just wanted to talk about game design. > > Now I'm not going to disagree with you that she was uncivil in her response. But to connect it to her career is unfair. Where do you draw the line? How many people here should be fired for the comments they made? But she was representing the company and did mention a fair few times she was a dev for ANet. One of the more noteworthy times was when she said she wasn't "on the clock" and didn't need to "pretend" she "liked" any of the people commenting. Flat out implying that the devs are always lying and putting on a positive face when talking with the community is really direct form of representation that broadcasts the company as a whole in a really bad light, even if she wants write it off and say they aren't on the clock. Also, the line is pretty fair and clear here. You can say horrible things that aren't pertaining directly to the company (like her feelings for TB's death; which a fair bit of companies would NOT tolerate), but don't be using the company's name, your position within said company, or what's (possibly) going behind the scenes while you're spouting said statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaShi.1368 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > > > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > > > > @"Dengar.1785" said: > > > > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > > > > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > > > > > > So, for the people who defend Price, please explain this to me: why are her actions acceptable? Why is what she said appropriate? Why is celebrating the death of a well-known streamer okay? Why is cursing someone out with no provocation a good thing to do? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Confronting sexism" isn't a valid excuse here. As Saelenthi pointed out, tone is infamously difficult to discern on the internet. Where is the sexism in Deroir's post? And EVEN IF THERE WAS, Price is an employee at a company, PUBLICLY REPRESENTING that company. It is her JOB to be one of the public faces of that company, to be professional and polite, because she does not represent herself, she represents the company. Privately - to a friend on the phone or in person or whatever - she's free to complain all she wants! But NOT in a public space, and NOT while she is representing a company. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tone is difficult to discern, but discern it you must...otherwise all written words would be toneless, and there would be no reason to read or write novels, in which you often have to discern the tone of the author...would be the same in this case, and a lot of use determined that the tone of, at least for me, the last tweet from Deroir, was condescending. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, she's not in PR, she's in Narrative, if she was in PR then it would be her job to one of the public faces of the company, but seeing as she worked in Narrative and not PR, it shouldn't be, not everyone is cutout to do PR work, which is why you have people that specialize in PR. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears to me that a lot of people want their speech controlled by who they work for when that speech is in a public space...it reminds how we've taken a complete 180 from the original Greeks, those people that had specific corners where someone could stand up and say anything they wanted...do any of you remember that from Greek history, of course it also started to turn away from being completely free public speech during those same times...so we've been doing this to each other for eons now. > > > > > > > > > > > > We don’t want to control speech, we just want people to show some respect to their fellow human beings. > > > > > > > > > > This, exactly. I'm all for free speech. People have fought and died in wars for that precious freedom. > > > > > I'm also all for professional courtesy, responsibility, and self control. > > > > > > > > > > Saying that not everyone is cut out for PR work is basically giving an excuse to Price's words. "Well, she's not in PR, so how could she have been expected to behave civilly?" Because she's representing a company. Because her twitter account is not private. Because as a representative of that company, she has a responsibility to act professionally. Because she's a human being and should therefore realize that flying off the handle to a politely dissenting opinion, just because of some *perceived* insult or agenda, is *probably* an overreaction to the extreme. Freedom of speech also means that you take responsibility for your words. Deroir did. Price did not. > > > > > > > > But Price wasn't representing the company in that context. And no, her putting that she works for Anet in her bio doesn't mean that. A lot of people, especially in her field do that for networking. She didn't mention Anet once in her tweets. She just wanted to talk about game design. > > > > > > > > Now I'm not going to disagree with you that she was uncivil in her response. But to connect it to her career is unfair. Where do you draw the line? How many people here should be fired for the comments they made? > > > > > > Yes, she was representing the company. If I work for a coffee shop and I wear a t-shirt with the words "proud employee of [coffee shop]" on it, even though I'm not at work, I'm representing that company and publicly proclaiming the fact that I'm an employee there. Price was publicly proclaiming she was an employee of ArenaNet. She was representing the company. > > > > Is this your opinion? Or is there something to back it up? You are basically arguing that people are entirely subservient to their employers. > > If said people are: > > - talking about work related things > - have made very clear whom they work for (via clothing for example) > - have used said work relation to garner credibility > - to fans of said company > - have their company in their twitter bio > - have not set their profile to private > > Then yes, they are representing the company even in their free time and on their social media account. This is what I'm trying to get at here. Where is the line? I expect us each to have our own opinions about that. But overall, we should consider something that actually works in the real world. Something that protects people from being unfair abused. I don't necessarily mean insults. I mean people being genuinely hurt in such a way that it affects their lives and livelihoods. If you feel those guidelines do that, then that's fine for you. However, I think that's a lot to ask of an employee, who just wants to do the job they love well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dengar.1785 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 To simplify it further, an employee must do the following: -Not endanger their employer’s income. JP failed to uphold this very simple thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaShi.1368 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > I can't. It's been demonstrated to the best of my abilities and others. If you can't see it, we are simply at different places. I guess, show me how it's not. I don't have other ideas. > > I can't see what's not there. You're absolutely correct. > > I'm well aware that sexism and other various issues plague us on a day to day basis. Every day i have to deal with playing nice due to the color of my skin, less i risk being shot. > You know what i've also learned, that not every shadow is out to get me. Something that apparently you're missing because you really seem to enjoy labeling an innocent person as condescending and apparently a sexist since you agree with Jessica. > > > I've stated before I think Jessica overreacted. I just understand why and don't agree with the consequences of that overreaction. But she was in the wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dengar.1785 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > > > > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > > > > > @"Dengar.1785" said: > > > > > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > > > > > > > So, for the people who defend Price, please explain this to me: why are her actions acceptable? Why is what she said appropriate? Why is celebrating the death of a well-known streamer okay? Why is cursing someone out with no provocation a good thing to do? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Confronting sexism" isn't a valid excuse here. As Saelenthi pointed out, tone is infamously difficult to discern on the internet. Where is the sexism in Deroir's post? And EVEN IF THERE WAS, Price is an employee at a company, PUBLICLY REPRESENTING that company. It is her JOB to be one of the public faces of that company, to be professional and polite, because she does not represent herself, she represents the company. Privately - to a friend on the phone or in person or whatever - she's free to complain all she wants! But NOT in a public space, and NOT while she is representing a company. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tone is difficult to discern, but discern it you must...otherwise all written words would be toneless, and there would be no reason to read or write novels, in which you often have to discern the tone of the author...would be the same in this case, and a lot of use determined that the tone of, at least for me, the last tweet from Deroir, was condescending. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, she's not in PR, she's in Narrative, if she was in PR then it would be her job to one of the public faces of the company, but seeing as she worked in Narrative and not PR, it shouldn't be, not everyone is cutout to do PR work, which is why you have people that specialize in PR. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears to me that a lot of people want their speech controlled by who they work for when that speech is in a public space...it reminds how we've taken a complete 180 from the original Greeks, those people that had specific corners where someone could stand up and say anything they wanted...do any of you remember that from Greek history, of course it also started to turn away from being completely free public speech during those same times...so we've been doing this to each other for eons now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We don’t want to control speech, we just want people to show some respect to their fellow human beings. > > > > > > > > > > > > This, exactly. I'm all for free speech. People have fought and died in wars for that precious freedom. > > > > > > I'm also all for professional courtesy, responsibility, and self control. > > > > > > > > > > > > Saying that not everyone is cut out for PR work is basically giving an excuse to Price's words. "Well, she's not in PR, so how could she have been expected to behave civilly?" Because she's representing a company. Because her twitter account is not private. Because as a representative of that company, she has a responsibility to act professionally. Because she's a human being and should therefore realize that flying off the handle to a politely dissenting opinion, just because of some *perceived* insult or agenda, is *probably* an overreaction to the extreme. Freedom of speech also means that you take responsibility for your words. Deroir did. Price did not. > > > > > > > > > > But Price wasn't representing the company in that context. And no, her putting that she works for Anet in her bio doesn't mean that. A lot of people, especially in her field do that for networking. She didn't mention Anet once in her tweets. She just wanted to talk about game design. > > > > > > > > > > Now I'm not going to disagree with you that she was uncivil in her response. But to connect it to her career is unfair. Where do you draw the line? How many people here should be fired for the comments they made? > > > > > > > > Yes, she was representing the company. If I work for a coffee shop and I wear a t-shirt with the words "proud employee of [coffee shop]" on it, even though I'm not at work, I'm representing that company and publicly proclaiming the fact that I'm an employee there. Price was publicly proclaiming she was an employee of ArenaNet. She was representing the company. > > > > > > Is this your opinion? Or is there something to back it up? You are basically arguing that people are entirely subservient to their employers. > > > > If said people are: > > > > - talking about work related things > > - have made very clear whom they work for (via clothing for example) > > - have used said work relation to garner credibility > > - to fans of said company > > - have their company in their twitter bio > > - have not set their profile to private > > > > Then yes, they are representing the company even in their free time and on their social media account. > > This is what I'm trying to get at here. Where is the line? I expect us each to have our own opinions about that. But overall, we should consider something that actually works in the real world. Something that protects people from being unfair abused. I don't necessarily mean insults. I mean people being genuinely hurt in such a way that it affects their lives and livelihoods. If you feel those guidelines do that, then that's fine for you. However, I think that's a lot to ask of an employee, who just wants to do the job they love well. It’s actually really simple. **Dont’t be a kitten to people.** Why do people not get this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knox.8462 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Most companies have very clear stipulations about posting work related matters on social media. I'd be very surprised if Arena Net didn't have a social media policy, and given that Price's original thread was directly related to her work at Anet, and the following argument involved Guild Wars 2 customers, it's very likely that Price and Fries breached Anet's code of conduct. I hate a lot of customers in my job, but I wouldn't dare tell them that "I don't have to pretend to like you here" on a social media platform with no privacy settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singularity.2109 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 > @"DaShi.1368" said: > I can't. It's been demonstrated to the best of my abilities and others. If you can't see it, we are simply at different places. I guess, show me how it's not. I don't have other ideas. If one person says something exists, and the other says it doesn't, the burden of proof is usually with the first one. So, if you say there was condescending attitude, it's your responsibility to prove that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 > @"DaShi.1368" said: > I've stated before I think Jessica overreacted. I just understand why and don't agree with the consequences of that overreaction. But she was in the wrong. You say she overreacted, but you want say she's responsible for the consequences ? As much as i'd like to agree that maybe there was a better more exhaustive solution that could have been made, I'm ultimately not in such a position and the only people who are have given us their input and reason for termination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaShi.1368 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 > @"Ultimaistanza.4793" said: > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > > @"Dengar.1785" said: > > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > > > > So, for the people who defend Price, please explain this to me: why are her actions acceptable? Why is what she said appropriate? Why is celebrating the death of a well-known streamer okay? Why is cursing someone out with no provocation a good thing to do? > > > > > > > > > > > > "Confronting sexism" isn't a valid excuse here. As Saelenthi pointed out, tone is infamously difficult to discern on the internet. Where is the sexism in Deroir's post? And EVEN IF THERE WAS, Price is an employee at a company, PUBLICLY REPRESENTING that company. It is her JOB to be one of the public faces of that company, to be professional and polite, because she does not represent herself, she represents the company. Privately - to a friend on the phone or in person or whatever - she's free to complain all she wants! But NOT in a public space, and NOT while she is representing a company. > > > > > > > > > > Tone is difficult to discern, but discern it you must...otherwise all written words would be toneless, and there would be no reason to read or write novels, in which you often have to discern the tone of the author...would be the same in this case, and a lot of use determined that the tone of, at least for me, the last tweet from Deroir, was condescending. > > > > > > > > > > Also, she's not in PR, she's in Narrative, if she was in PR then it would be her job to one of the public faces of the company, but seeing as she worked in Narrative and not PR, it shouldn't be, not everyone is cutout to do PR work, which is why you have people that specialize in PR. > > > > > > > > > > It appears to me that a lot of people want their speech controlled by who they work for when that speech is in a public space...it reminds how we've taken a complete 180 from the original Greeks, those people that had specific corners where someone could stand up and say anything they wanted...do any of you remember that from Greek history, of course it also started to turn away from being completely free public speech during those same times...so we've been doing this to each other for eons now. > > > > > > > > We don’t want to control speech, we just want people to show some respect to their fellow human beings. > > > > > > This, exactly. I'm all for free speech. People have fought and died in wars for that precious freedom. > > > I'm also all for professional courtesy, responsibility, and self control. > > > > > > Saying that not everyone is cut out for PR work is basically giving an excuse to Price's words. "Well, she's not in PR, so how could she have been expected to behave civilly?" Because she's representing a company. Because her twitter account is not private. Because as a representative of that company, she has a responsibility to act professionally. Because she's a human being and should therefore realize that flying off the handle to a politely dissenting opinion, just because of some *perceived* insult or agenda, is *probably* an overreaction to the extreme. Freedom of speech also means that you take responsibility for your words. Deroir did. Price did not. > > > > But Price wasn't representing the company in that context. And no, her putting that she works for Anet in her bio doesn't mean that. A lot of people, especially in her field do that for networking. She didn't mention Anet once in her tweets. She just wanted to talk about game design. > > > > Now I'm not going to disagree with you that she was uncivil in her response. But to connect it to her career is unfair. Where do you draw the line? How many people here should be fired for the comments they made? > > But she was representing the company and did mention a fair few times she was a dev for ANet. One of the more noteworthy times was when she said she wasn't "on the clock" and didn't need to "pretend" she "liked" any of the people commenting. Flat out implying that the devs are always lying and putting on a positive face when talking with the community is really direct form of representation that broadcasts the company as a whole in a really bad light, even if she wants write it off and say they aren't on the clock. > > Also, the line is pretty fair and clear here. You can say horrible things that aren't pertaining directly to the company (like her feelings for TB's death; which a fair bit of companies would NOT tolerate), but don't be using the company's name, your position within said company, or what's (possibly) going behind the scenes while you're spouting said statements. Um, if you believe that the devs genuinely care about you, I have a bridge to sell you in Alaska. Most creators don't like a number of their "fans." This is true in every industry. So,yes, odds are they are pretending to like you. They kind of have to. Sorry that the illusion is broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batel.9206 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 > @"DaShi.1368" said: > Is this your opinion? Or is there something to back it up? You are basically arguing that people are entirely subservient to their employers. Oi vey. I'll spell it out, then: I'm arguing that people should have a modicum of common sense and think logically about how their actions may reflect on people other than themselves - i.e., their employers, which eventually circles back around to themselves. ("Hm, if I start spewing f-bombs and calling people rando babycat-hats, I wonder how that may affect my own employment, and perhaps my own self-esteem when I look back at this incident years down the line. Am I going to be proud of what I said because it was worth it? Or am I going to think 'Okay, that really wasn't worth it, and I feel degraded for losing control of myself; I should have responded more maturely'?") I'm arguing that people should have a bit of self control. And, y'know, be PROFESSIONAL. I'm getting tired of repeating that word like a broken record, but that's what it boils down to. Being a professional employee because you take pride in your job, in your work, in your employers, and in yourself. That isn't being "subservient" - interesting word choice, by the way, which implies employees are slaves to their employers - that's taking responsibility for what you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaShi.1368 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 > @"Dengar.1785" said: > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > > > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > > > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > > > > > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dengar.1785" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > > > > > > > > So, for the people who defend Price, please explain this to me: why are her actions acceptable? Why is what she said appropriate? Why is celebrating the death of a well-known streamer okay? Why is cursing someone out with no provocation a good thing to do? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Confronting sexism" isn't a valid excuse here. As Saelenthi pointed out, tone is infamously difficult to discern on the internet. Where is the sexism in Deroir's post? And EVEN IF THERE WAS, Price is an employee at a company, PUBLICLY REPRESENTING that company. It is her JOB to be one of the public faces of that company, to be professional and polite, because she does not represent herself, she represents the company. Privately - to a friend on the phone or in person or whatever - she's free to complain all she wants! But NOT in a public space, and NOT while she is representing a company. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tone is difficult to discern, but discern it you must...otherwise all written words would be toneless, and there would be no reason to read or write novels, in which you often have to discern the tone of the author...would be the same in this case, and a lot of use determined that the tone of, at least for me, the last tweet from Deroir, was condescending. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, she's not in PR, she's in Narrative, if she was in PR then it would be her job to one of the public faces of the company, but seeing as she worked in Narrative and not PR, it shouldn't be, not everyone is cutout to do PR work, which is why you have people that specialize in PR. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears to me that a lot of people want their speech controlled by who they work for when that speech is in a public space...it reminds how we've taken a complete 180 from the original Greeks, those people that had specific corners where someone could stand up and say anything they wanted...do any of you remember that from Greek history, of course it also started to turn away from being completely free public speech during those same times...so we've been doing this to each other for eons now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We don’t want to control speech, we just want people to show some respect to their fellow human beings. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This, exactly. I'm all for free speech. People have fought and died in wars for that precious freedom. > > > > > > > I'm also all for professional courtesy, responsibility, and self control. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saying that not everyone is cut out for PR work is basically giving an excuse to Price's words. "Well, she's not in PR, so how could she have been expected to behave civilly?" Because she's representing a company. Because her twitter account is not private. Because as a representative of that company, she has a responsibility to act professionally. Because she's a human being and should therefore realize that flying off the handle to a politely dissenting opinion, just because of some *perceived* insult or agenda, is *probably* an overreaction to the extreme. Freedom of speech also means that you take responsibility for your words. Deroir did. Price did not. > > > > > > > > > > > > But Price wasn't representing the company in that context. And no, her putting that she works for Anet in her bio doesn't mean that. A lot of people, especially in her field do that for networking. She didn't mention Anet once in her tweets. She just wanted to talk about game design. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now I'm not going to disagree with you that she was uncivil in her response. But to connect it to her career is unfair. Where do you draw the line? How many people here should be fired for the comments they made? > > > > > > > > > > Yes, she was representing the company. If I work for a coffee shop and I wear a t-shirt with the words "proud employee of [coffee shop]" on it, even though I'm not at work, I'm representing that company and publicly proclaiming the fact that I'm an employee there. Price was publicly proclaiming she was an employee of ArenaNet. She was representing the company. > > > > > > > > Is this your opinion? Or is there something to back it up? You are basically arguing that people are entirely subservient to their employers. > > > > > > If said people are: > > > > > > - talking about work related things > > > - have made very clear whom they work for (via clothing for example) > > > - have used said work relation to garner credibility > > > - to fans of said company > > > - have their company in their twitter bio > > > - have not set their profile to private > > > > > > Then yes, they are representing the company even in their free time and on their social media account. > > > > This is what I'm trying to get at here. Where is the line? I expect us each to have our own opinions about that. But overall, we should consider something that actually works in the real world. Something that protects people from being unfair abused. I don't necessarily mean insults. I mean people being genuinely hurt in such a way that it affects their lives and livelihoods. If you feel those guidelines do that, then that's fine for you. However, I think that's a lot to ask of an employee, who just wants to do the job they love well. > > It’s actually really simple. > > **Dont’t be a kitten to people.** > > Why do people not get this? So everyone in this thread who was rude or kitten to people should be fired? Some of them may use their products and services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > > > > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > > > > > @"Dengar.1785" said: > > > > > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Batel.9206" said: > > > > > > > > > So, for the people who defend Price, please explain this to me: why are her actions acceptable? Why is what she said appropriate? Why is celebrating the death of a well-known streamer okay? Why is cursing someone out with no provocation a good thing to do? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Confronting sexism" isn't a valid excuse here. As Saelenthi pointed out, tone is infamously difficult to discern on the internet. Where is the sexism in Deroir's post? And EVEN IF THERE WAS, Price is an employee at a company, PUBLICLY REPRESENTING that company. It is her JOB to be one of the public faces of that company, to be professional and polite, because she does not represent herself, she represents the company. Privately - to a friend on the phone or in person or whatever - she's free to complain all she wants! But NOT in a public space, and NOT while she is representing a company. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tone is difficult to discern, but discern it you must...otherwise all written words would be toneless, and there would be no reason to read or write novels, in which you often have to discern the tone of the author...would be the same in this case, and a lot of use determined that the tone of, at least for me, the last tweet from Deroir, was condescending. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, she's not in PR, she's in Narrative, if she was in PR then it would be her job to one of the public faces of the company, but seeing as she worked in Narrative and not PR, it shouldn't be, not everyone is cutout to do PR work, which is why you have people that specialize in PR. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears to me that a lot of people want their speech controlled by who they work for when that speech is in a public space...it reminds how we've taken a complete 180 from the original Greeks, those people that had specific corners where someone could stand up and say anything they wanted...do any of you remember that from Greek history, of course it also started to turn away from being completely free public speech during those same times...so we've been doing this to each other for eons now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We don’t want to control speech, we just want people to show some respect to their fellow human beings. > > > > > > > > > > > > This, exactly. I'm all for free speech. People have fought and died in wars for that precious freedom. > > > > > > I'm also all for professional courtesy, responsibility, and self control. > > > > > > > > > > > > Saying that not everyone is cut out for PR work is basically giving an excuse to Price's words. "Well, she's not in PR, so how could she have been expected to behave civilly?" Because she's representing a company. Because her twitter account is not private. Because as a representative of that company, she has a responsibility to act professionally. Because she's a human being and should therefore realize that flying off the handle to a politely dissenting opinion, just because of some *perceived* insult or agenda, is *probably* an overreaction to the extreme. Freedom of speech also means that you take responsibility for your words. Deroir did. Price did not. > > > > > > > > > > But Price wasn't representing the company in that context. And no, her putting that she works for Anet in her bio doesn't mean that. A lot of people, especially in her field do that for networking. She didn't mention Anet once in her tweets. She just wanted to talk about game design. > > > > > > > > > > Now I'm not going to disagree with you that she was uncivil in her response. But to connect it to her career is unfair. Where do you draw the line? How many people here should be fired for the comments they made? > > > > > > > > Yes, she was representing the company. If I work for a coffee shop and I wear a t-shirt with the words "proud employee of [coffee shop]" on it, even though I'm not at work, I'm representing that company and publicly proclaiming the fact that I'm an employee there. Price was publicly proclaiming she was an employee of ArenaNet. She was representing the company. > > > > > > Is this your opinion? Or is there something to back it up? You are basically arguing that people are entirely subservient to their employers. > > > > If said people are: > > > > - talking about work related things > > - have made very clear whom they work for (via clothing for example) > > - have used said work relation to garner credibility > > - to fans of said company > > - have their company in their twitter bio > > - have not set their profile to private > > > > Then yes, they are representing the company even in their free time and on their social media account. > > This is what I'm trying to get at here. Where is the line? I expect us each to have our own opinions about that. But overall, we should consider something that actually works in the real world. Something that protects people from being unfair abused. I don't necessarily mean insults. I mean people being genuinely hurt in such a way that it affects their lives and livelihoods. If you feel those guidelines do that, then that's fine for you. However, I think that's a lot to ask of an employee, who just wants to do the job they love well. Yes, boundaries and communication have become more difficult. 30 years ago something said in rage or anger might have been heard by maybe 20-40 people at a convention. Now with social media being world encompassing it can spread like wildfire. That's why companies now often have social media clauses in their employment contracts. If you want to defend people having free speech any where and every where, that is fine by me. But don't bring that here and pretend this absolves someone of the repercussions of actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaShi.1368 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 > @"Singularity.2109" said: > > @"DaShi.1368" said: > > I can't. It's been demonstrated to the best of my abilities and others. If you can't see it, we are simply at different places. I guess, show me how it's not. I don't have other ideas. > > If one person says something exists, and the other says it doesn't, the burden of proof is usually with the first one. So, if you say there was condescending attitude, it's your responsibility to prove that. Fine, there was not not condescension. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now