GW 2 Devs/Playerbase Twitter Discussion

[Zaklex.6308]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > > So I found this definition, and it wasn't on wikipedia or urban dictionary(which is the only place I find womansplain):

> > > > man·splain

> > > > manˈsplān/Submit

> > > > verbinformal

> > > > gerund or present participle: mansplaining

> > > > (of a man) explain (something) to someone, typically a woman, in a manner regarded as condescending or patronizing.

> > > > "I'm listening to a guy mansplain economics to his wife"

> > > > Now tell us again how mansplaining isn't a thing? All I did was do a simple Google search for both terms, and it appears that it was added to Merriam-Webster just this past March, which now makes it a legitimate thing.

> > > >

> > > > Oh, and in case anyone hasn't seen this article yet, just read it, it includes a full response from MO and more anecdotes from JP: https://www.polygon.com/2018/7/9/17549492/arenanet-jessica-price-guild-wars-2-writer-fired

> > >

> > > Mansplaining isn't a thing. It's really simple: anyone can talk down to somebody else in a condescending or patronizing manner, no matter who that other person is. There's no inherent sex bias to the act. To call it "mansplaining" is a deliberate manipulation to further a misandrist agenda and permits someone to dismiss information without thinking about it. It is a lie. There is no mansplaining anymore than there is manbreathing, manwalking, or manlistening.

> >

> > I'm not saying it's necessarily a thing, all I'm saying is that now it's been given a definition and made part of our lexicon, just like other made up words have been in the past, and I do prefer the Merriam-Webster definition better:

> > Mansplaining is, at its core, a very specific thing. It's what occurs when a man talks condescendingly to someone (especially a woman) about something he has incomplete knowledge of, with the mistaken assumption that he knows more about it than the person he's talking to does.

>

> We all know the connotations and uses of the term. Don't pretend that they don't exist.

 

You said yourself in your previous post that mansplaining wasn't a thing...either it is or it isn't...make up your mind.

[Yamazuki.6073]

> @"Briolase.7306" said:

> I've uninstalled. I know none of you care and will probably attack me for my disagreement. This entire thread and its contents are the reason I've left the game. I no longer feel welcome, as a woman, and as a person who disagrees with the ravening horde. I don't agree with Mike O'Brien's hasty actions in firing JP and PF, but I understand that he's human, that he might have panicked in the face of internet outrage. His statement here was a non-statement, and his statement to polygon wasn't much better. Whether or not his actions were a direct reaction to the outrage or not, he should have known that his actions would embolden the worst of the internet. It has divided the community, it has turned this community into a place where I no longer feel comfortable. The values portrayed in game - the inclusion of women, people of color, the lgbt community, and the disabled - seems to not be reflected behind the scenes. It is disheartening and depressing.

>

> This thread is full of people crowing with glee over two people whose careers have been derailed, their lives upended. Anyone who disagrees with the mob is shouted down, accused of "siding with bullies" or of having political motives, or even of not being a part of the community. I've been playing since beta. I love this game. GW2 is my therapy for a stressful life and an anxiety disorder. But I don't feel welcome anymore.

>

> I suppose I should not be surprised by the attitudes expressed by so many players, but I always held GW2's community to higher standards. I should have known all this ugliness was lurking beneath the surface just waiting to be unleashed by an event such as this.

>

> Yes yes, I know, I'm the toxic one for daring to disagree with this morbid celebration. Yes yes, I know, you're glad I'm leaving. And no, you can't have my stuff.

 

In all honestly, I don't see why you, JP, or any other person, keeps talking about gender.

 

Anything that happened to her had absolutely nothing at all to do with the fact she is a woman. If you want to talk about "gender issues' how about we imagine a scenario where JP is a man and the player in question was a woman. Would you even care at all if a man was fired after stating all women are trash and several other modern negative labels? If anything, said man would have probably not only been fired, but would have been banned from Twitter immediately for **Hate Speech**. Not only that, but I imagine said male would probably be met with threats to his personal life, and never ending harassment for being a whatever label you want to throw at him. His career would be forever gone, and lucky to even get a job at Mcdonalds, while his female victim would have been labeled a hero for surviving his attack.

 

If you care at all about women being treated fairly then you would be supportive of her being fired for her terrible behavior. Any man in that situation would have had far worse consequences, she got off easy comparatively, and even her victim in this case is being labelled as the villain even though she's the one who attacked him.

 

One thing to take into consideration, she was not only hating on all men, but she was hating on all women who disagreed with her. How you can possibly defend a woman who behaves like that toward other women is beyond me.

[Maxajax.6350]

> @"Briolase.7306" said:

> I've uninstalled. I know none of you care and will probably attack me for my disagreement. This entire thread and its contents are the reason I've left the game. I no longer feel welcome, as a woman, and as a person who disagrees with the ravening horde. I don't agree with Mike O'Brien's hasty actions in firing JP and PF, but I understand that he's human, that he might have panicked in the face of internet outrage. His statement here was a non-statement, and his statement to polygon wasn't much better. Whether or not his actions were a direct reaction to the outrage or not, he should have known that his actions would embolden the worst of the internet. It has divided the community, it has turned this community into a place where I no longer feel comfortable. The values portrayed in game - the inclusion of women, people of color, the lgbt community, and the disabled - seems to not be reflected behind the scenes. It is disheartening and depressing.

>

> This thread is full of people crowing with glee over two people whose careers have been derailed, their lives upended. Anyone who disagrees with the mob is shouted down, accused of "siding with bullies" or of having political motives, or even of not being a part of the community. I've been playing since beta. I love this game. GW2 is my therapy for a stressful life and an anxiety disorder. But I don't feel welcome anymore.

>

> I suppose I should not be surprised by the attitudes expressed by so many players, but I always held GW2's community to higher standards. I should have known all this ugliness was lurking beneath the surface just waiting to be unleashed by an event such as this.

>

> Yes yes, I know, I'm the toxic one for daring to disagree with this morbid celebration. Yes yes, I know, you're glad I'm leaving. And no, you can't have my stuff.

 

I don't think the mob had anything to do with it. JP and PF said things on Twitter that made it morally and practically wrong to retain them as employees. That does not mean that people ought to be celebrating the loss of two devs. Especially PF who has been working on GW1 and 2 for a long time. It is still a loss for the game. Doubly so when the media puts a fictional spin on it to make Mike and Anet look bad for doing the right thing, causing players to leave the game. Regardless of your views, I hope that you find a place where you are happy.

[Gendou.9620]

> @"Edge.4180" said:

> > @"Jukhy.2431" said:

> > Here's a fact based video explaining it very well:

> >

> >

>

> I agree that video does a great job at reviewing the events.

>

> Price's comments were uncalled for and out of line. I don't fault ArenaNet's reaction or decision, and am pretty disappointed with the way segments of the gaming media have misrepresented this story.

>

>

 

^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^

[Zaklex.6308]

> @"Maxajax.6350" said:

> > @"Briolase.7306" said:

> > I've uninstalled. I know none of you care and will probably attack me for my disagreement. This entire thread and its contents are the reason I've left the game. I no longer feel welcome, as a woman, and as a person who disagrees with the ravening horde. I don't agree with Mike O'Brien's hasty actions in firing JP and PF, but I understand that he's human, that he might have panicked in the face of internet outrage. His statement here was a non-statement, and his statement to polygon wasn't much better. Whether or not his actions were a direct reaction to the outrage or not, he should have known that his actions would embolden the worst of the internet. It has divided the community, it has turned this community into a place where I no longer feel comfortable. The values portrayed in game - the inclusion of women, people of color, the lgbt community, and the disabled - seems to not be reflected behind the scenes. It is disheartening and depressing.

> >

> > This thread is full of people crowing with glee over two people whose careers have been derailed, their lives upended. Anyone who disagrees with the mob is shouted down, accused of "siding with bullies" or of having political motives, or even of not being a part of the community. I've been playing since beta. I love this game. GW2 is my therapy for a stressful life and an anxiety disorder. But I don't feel welcome anymore.

> >

> > I suppose I should not be surprised by the attitudes expressed by so many players, but I always held GW2's community to higher standards. I should have known all this ugliness was lurking beneath the surface just waiting to be unleashed by an event such as this.

> >

> > Yes yes, I know, I'm the toxic one for daring to disagree with this morbid celebration. Yes yes, I know, you're glad I'm leaving. And no, you can't have my stuff.

>

> I don't think the mob had anything to do with it. JP and PF said things on Twitter that made it morally and practically wrong to retain them as employees. That does not mean that people ought to be celebrating the loss of two devs. Especially PF who has been working on GW1 and 2 for a long time. It is still a loss for the game. Doubly so when the media puts a fictional spin on it to make Mike and Anet look bad for doing the right thing, causing players to leave the game. Regardless of your views, I hope that you find a place where you are happy.

 

At least part of your statement is correct, MO and ArenaNet will look bad and it will cause players to leave the game...perhaps not as many as if he had kept probably the two best writers on the team, but still, people will leave, because in the end. An employer should always have their employees back in a dispute with a customer...always, that is a fundamental tenet of being a good leader(whether that's from a Lead all the way up to a CEO, you should always have your employees backs).

[squallaus.8321]

> @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > @"Maxajax.6350" said:

> > > @"Briolase.7306" said:

> > > I've uninstalled. I know none of you care and will probably attack me for my disagreement. This entire thread and its contents are the reason I've left the game. I no longer feel welcome, as a woman, and as a person who disagrees with the ravening horde. I don't agree with Mike O'Brien's hasty actions in firing JP and PF, but I understand that he's human, that he might have panicked in the face of internet outrage. His statement here was a non-statement, and his statement to polygon wasn't much better. Whether or not his actions were a direct reaction to the outrage or not, he should have known that his actions would embolden the worst of the internet. It has divided the community, it has turned this community into a place where I no longer feel comfortable. The values portrayed in game - the inclusion of women, people of color, the lgbt community, and the disabled - seems to not be reflected behind the scenes. It is disheartening and depressing.

> > >

> > > This thread is full of people crowing with glee over two people whose careers have been derailed, their lives upended. Anyone who disagrees with the mob is shouted down, accused of "siding with bullies" or of having political motives, or even of not being a part of the community. I've been playing since beta. I love this game. GW2 is my therapy for a stressful life and an anxiety disorder. But I don't feel welcome anymore.

> > >

> > > I suppose I should not be surprised by the attitudes expressed by so many players, but I always held GW2's community to higher standards. I should have known all this ugliness was lurking beneath the surface just waiting to be unleashed by an event such as this.

> > >

> > > Yes yes, I know, I'm the toxic one for daring to disagree with this morbid celebration. Yes yes, I know, you're glad I'm leaving. And no, you can't have my stuff.

> >

> > I don't think the mob had anything to do with it. JP and PF said things on Twitter that made it morally and practically wrong to retain them as employees. That does not mean that people ought to be celebrating the loss of two devs. Especially PF who has been working on GW1 and 2 for a long time. It is still a loss for the game. Doubly so when the media puts a fictional spin on it to make Mike and Anet look bad for doing the right thing, causing players to leave the game. Regardless of your views, I hope that you find a place where you are happy.

>

> At least part of your statement is correct, MO and ArenaNet will look bad and it will cause players to leave the game...perhaps not as many as if he had kept probably the two best writers on the team, but still, people will leave, because in the end. An employer should always have their employees back in a dispute with a customer...always, that is a fundamental tenet of being a good leader(whether that's from a Lead all the way up to a CEO, you should always have your employees backs).

 

So you, a rando, wants to tell MO how to do his job. Are you sure that's a good idea?

[zenleto.6179]

> @"squallaus.8321" said:

> > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > @"Maxajax.6350" said:

> > > > @"Briolase.7306" said:

> > > > I've uninstalled. I know none of you care and will probably attack me for my disagreement. This entire thread and its contents are the reason I've left the game. I no longer feel welcome, as a woman, and as a person who disagrees with the ravening horde. I don't agree with Mike O'Brien's hasty actions in firing JP and PF, but I understand that he's human, that he might have panicked in the face of internet outrage. His statement here was a non-statement, and his statement to polygon wasn't much better. Whether or not his actions were a direct reaction to the outrage or not, he should have known that his actions would embolden the worst of the internet. It has divided the community, it has turned this community into a place where I no longer feel comfortable. The values portrayed in game - the inclusion of women, people of color, the lgbt community, and the disabled - seems to not be reflected behind the scenes. It is disheartening and depressing.

> > > >

> > > > This thread is full of people crowing with glee over two people whose careers have been derailed, their lives upended. Anyone who disagrees with the mob is shouted down, accused of "siding with bullies" or of having political motives, or even of not being a part of the community. I've been playing since beta. I love this game. GW2 is my therapy for a stressful life and an anxiety disorder. But I don't feel welcome anymore.

> > > >

> > > > I suppose I should not be surprised by the attitudes expressed by so many players, but I always held GW2's community to higher standards. I should have known all this ugliness was lurking beneath the surface just waiting to be unleashed by an event such as this.

> > > >

> > > > Yes yes, I know, I'm the toxic one for daring to disagree with this morbid celebration. Yes yes, I know, you're glad I'm leaving. And no, you can't have my stuff.

> > >

> > > I don't think the mob had anything to do with it. JP and PF said things on Twitter that made it morally and practically wrong to retain them as employees. That does not mean that people ought to be celebrating the loss of two devs. Especially PF who has been working on GW1 and 2 for a long time. It is still a loss for the game. Doubly so when the media puts a fictional spin on it to make Mike and Anet look bad for doing the right thing, causing players to leave the game. Regardless of your views, I hope that you find a place where you are happy.

> >

> > At least part of your statement is correct, MO and ArenaNet will look bad and it will cause players to leave the game...perhaps not as many as if he had kept probably the two best writers on the team, but still, people will leave, because in the end. An employer should always have their employees back in a dispute with a customer...always, that is a fundamental tenet of being a good leader(whether that's from a Lead all the way up to a CEO, you should always have your employees backs).

>

> So you, a rando, wants to tell MO how to do his job. Are you sure that's a good idea?

 

Randos on the forum have been telling Mike what to do since day 1 so I think that horse has bolted lol

[Haleydawn.3764]

I know it’s from Polygon *sigh*, but there is a further statement from ArenaNet MO in it which will answer a few people’s questions.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.polygon.com/platform/amp/2018/7/9/17549492/arenanet-jessica-price-guild-wars-2-writer-fired

 

“Jessica had identified herself as an ArenaNet employee on Reddit and Twitter, had been discussing Episode 3 storytelling with fans on Reddit, then had written a 25-part tweet about how we tell stories in MMOs, relating it back to Episode 3. She was representing the company. The expectation was to behave professionally and respectfully, or at least walk away. Instead, she attacked.

 

Concerns have been publicly raised that she was responding to harassment. It’s not my place to tell employees when they should or shouldn’t feel harassed. In this case, however, our employees could have chosen not to engage, and they could have brought the issue to the company, whereby we would have done everything we could to protect them.

 

We won’t tolerate harassment. When an employee feels harassed, we want them to bring the issue to us, so that we can protect the employee, deal with the issue, and use it to speak to the larger issue of harassment.

 

Whatever Jessica and Peter felt internally about the situation, this was objectively a customer engaging us respectfully and professionally, presenting a suggestion for our game. Any response from our company needed to be respectful and professional. A perceived slight doesn’t give us license to attack.

 

We’ve all dedicated our careers to entertaining people, to making games for the purpose of delighting those who play them. We generally have a wonderful relationship with our community, and that’s a point of pride for us. We want to hear from our players. It’s not acceptable that an attempted interaction with our company — in this case a polite game suggestion — would be met with open hostility and derision from us. That sets a chilling precedent.

 

The tweets were made on July 4, when the studio was closed for the holiday. We were aware of them that day, and decided we’d need to take action in the morning. The fact that the community’s anger was escalating on July 5 could make it look like our action was a response to the community’s anger. But that wasn’t the case. We took action as soon as we practicably could.

 

I hate to let an employee go, and I wish the best for Jessica and Peter, as for any former employee, in whatever they choose to do next.

 

Whatever you thought of the tweets, Jessica and Peter were also part of the team that brought you the kidnapping scene in Episode 1, which was a wonderfully well-executed scene. That’s how I want to remember their time at ArenaNet.”

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

So I went over the polygon article, and the amount of irony and hypocrisy is staggering. I don't have much else to do, so I'm going to sit down with a figurative fine-toothed comb and pick at it for a bit. To quote Orbital Butt: "It's me, the toxic gamer. I'm here to mansplain my manfeels and eat candy with my manmouth. And I'm all out of candy."

 

>Until last week, Price worked as a narrative designer on Guild Wars 2. Earlier this month, she wrote a lengthy Twitter thread about the differences between writing characters for linear, narrative-driven games and player characters in MMOs. A prominent Guild Wars 2 streamer and YouTube known as Deroir chimed in to disagree. Price later called Deroir out, tweeting: “Today in being a female game dev: ‘Allow me — a person who does not work with you — explain to you how you do your job.’”

 

And we already have two lies. Deroir didn't chime in to disagree. He chimed in to say that he mostly agreed, but wanted to open up the discussion of branching dialogue. Jessica didn't "Call Deroir Out," she insulted him and broadcast him as a sexist villain to her entire twitter feed, wholly unprovoked. That wasn't an act of justice, it was an act of malice.

 

>The tweet — and a follow-up in which she said, “the next rando asshat who attempts to explain the concept of branching dialogue to me ... is getting instablocked” — triggered a fierce thread on the Guild Wars subreddit. Fans mostly ignored Price’s point about women professionals constantly being questioned by men. They wanted to express their anger about a member of the community being rebuked.

 

Reddit didn't ignore her point about women professionals constantly being questioned by men. They discussed and argued against it vehemently. Largely because _there was no point._ This wasn't an argument or a statistic, JP did this solely to put Deroir on blast and feel self-righteous to her own fans about how the most innocuous comment is evil somehow. Yay Price. Of course, I call the claim about manquestioning into question, since all I've ever seen is women get special treatment and twist regular slights we all face into a patriarchal conspiracy. That and all of the sources polygon cites are polygon but in a different header.

 

>I was given no opportunity to argue my case,” she said. “My manager was on vacation. [O’Brien] spent some time insisting that developers must be friends with the company’s customers, and that it was unacceptable to say that we aren’t, even when we’re not on the clock. He told me I’d look back and regret this, because we were doing great work and I’d ruined it.

 

So much for speaking truth to power. Did she actually try to speak up? Usually when I want to say something I just interject or raise my hand, or something like that. Then again, I've never been chewed out by my boss for making a colossal mistake. Maybe the situation is different if you set the boss's car on fire. I mean, I'm not going to lie: the evidence was pretty damning. If polygon bothered to do more research then "ugh, reddit is whining again", they'd see the collection of nasty behavior and history of burned bridges. There's only so far you can go before "arguing the case" gets defenestrated. Besides, what was her case going to be? "It wasn't me"? "They all deserve it for being alt-directional icist isms of every degree"? "People don't see me as a representative for Anet when I respond to feedback about my job"? She already said that she's not sorry for any of this, but if you can't at least be sorry for Deroir then it is clear that an apology is off the table.

 

>“The whole thing was highly unprofessional,” she continued.

 

YOU'RE HIGHLY UNPROFESSIONAL!

 

>“There was zero reason for him to be there. He wanted to vent his anger, and he had the power to command a woman to stand there while he took his feelings out on her, so he did. Then he walked out, [the manager] got my stuff from my desk and the HR person asked for my key card.”'

 

YOU'RE THE REASON HE HAD TO BE THERE! O.K. enough exaggerated caps for now. There's another deliberate manipulation here: **He** had the power to command **a woman.** Yeah, no, this isn't a sexism thing. Back when I worked at the community college, the three heads of the department were all women of different nationalities, and if you messed up royally then you'd expect at least one of them get on your case. There were entire meetings held about bureaucracy and conduct that would last several hours. By meeting, I really mean that we'd sit there for two hours while an eastern-European woman would lecture us on how to fill out convoluted time cards.

 

The point of all that is this: Michel O'Brien can crack the whip just as hard as Mike O'Brien. Price is just playing the sexism card because its the card she always plays. Aside form all that, nobody enjoys a lecture. Not the person giving, or the person receiving. After learning how badly Price has messed up in the past, a venting lecture is for her benefit more than anyone elses. But of course, she is the type of person who doesn't learn.

 

>Price said she had no previous problem with her bosses about her social media activities.

 

That is meaningless. She didn't bring a problem onto Anets doorstep via social media until now, so obviously they didn't have a problem with it.

 

>“I was told during my interview and subsequent hiring communications that ArenaNet respected my willingness to speak up on issues in the industry and had no desire to muzzle me,” she said. “I had, in my time there, zero warnings about my social media use. Everything I said on Twitter was consistent with what I’ve been saying for years and how I’ve been saying it.”

 

I'm assuming the vetting process for hiring a developer doesn't involve crawling up their e-butt with a microscope. Otherwise they would've seen what happened with her last job. But here's the thing: If you say that you're a feminist or a strong women, people give the benefit of the doubt and assume the best of those titles. The average person assumes that claims to virtues are virtuous, and not malice in disguise. But once she started biting customers, Anet learned that her feisty behavior is really wanton animosity wearing a mask.

 

>She said she believed that ArenaNet was the sort of company that encouraged individualism and free expression. “It felt like it was too good to be true when they offered me a job,” she said. “They promised me that I wouldn’t have to check my identity at the door. They said that they admired my willingness to speak up about issues in the industry.

 

>“There was so much that we were doing internally that encouraged me to hope, to trust them. There were executives talking about diversity, and building a nontoxic work environment, and acknowledging that talk wasn’t enough — that they had to put money and effort and leadership behind it.”

 

This is one of the things she is half-right about. As a pretty solid-right traditional U.S. conservative, I learned a long time ago that the notion of tolerance and open-mindedness were really [empty platitudes](

"https://youtube.com/watch?v=35AxkSgQUTI") arbitrarily attributed to the stances they've taken. It is one of the paradoxical outcomes of multiculturalism, where you really become a moral dictator that judges other perspectives based solely on how multicultural they are (as defined by you yourself). Everything is relative, except for relativity which is not relative. Nothing is better than anything else except for saying that nothing is better than anything else, which is clearly better than everything else.

 

However, allow me to disagree by equal measure. JP has clearly missed what it means to be nontoxic. The whole point is to not breed hostility. But, she has misinterpreted this to mean "Because there is no hostility, I can be as hostile as I want!" Whether she can see the contradiction in this thinking and doesn't care, or she cannot see it is up for debate.

 

>There were meetings in which executives promised us that they wanted us to speak up about the ugly things, the harmful things, and that we wouldn’t be punished for doing so,” she said. “There was constant talk about how to make it the sort of place that you’d dream of working at, not just because of the cool games we were making, not just because of the benefits and perks, but because it was going to be a corrective to the exploitation and toxicity of so much of the industry.

 

YOU ARE THE UGLY, HARMFUL THING!

 

>And so it’s devastating that a company talking all that talk folded like a cheap card table the first time their values were actually tested. Doing the right thing is hard, sure, but doing it regularly makes it easier to keep doing it. And the corollary to that is that capitulating makes it harder to stop capitulating.

 

The self-righteousness is so thick in this statement that you can cut it with a butter knife. Yet, so sour that it has turned to cheese. I briefly mentioned Deroir before, but lets talk a bit more. For all intents and purposes, Deroir is collateral damage. A harmless youtuber caught in a conflict he didn't want, in spite of his best efforts to avoid any sort of contention. Spurred by the developer he admired, and brought under the assault of JP's ragtag taggers on the rag. (It's a joke, don't take it too seriously). For all of the supposed wrongdoings of reddit, Arenanet, twitter followers, Mike, or whatever, the one person who deserves and apology is Deroir. The dude's world caught fire last Fourth of July, and it wasn't fireworks that set it ablaze.

 

But righteous indignation knows no bounds. Apparently, all of this ire is not only deserved, but it is "the right thing". So right, that it required some moral obligation in spite of all the adversity she'd face in doing so. Give thanks to Jessica Price, the martyr for the cause of developers receiving feedback on their twitter feed when talking about the game.

 

>“Let’s be clear: In 2018, it’s absurd to pretend ignorance of what would happen to a woman fired for speaking about sexism, because he feels she got too uppity,” Price said. “He painted a target on everyone’s back. He didn’t just fail Peter and me, or even the employees for which he was responsible. He failed the entire industry.”

 

If you're playing SJW bingo, you can mark the current year square. Otherwise, I already wrote about the self-righteous martyrdom of JP in the paragraph previous to this one. Quite frankly, I think that Mike did the right thing. Personally, I'm so tired of seeing all of my hobbies waylaid by the extreme Left and start floundering because Get Woke, Go Broke. An industry is ultimately a business, and if you can't conduct business then there is no more industry. For the 80-90% of the population that isn't the extreme left, this is an excellent sign.

 

>He caved to a handful of people and an army of bots and sock puppets,” she added. “Now he’s got almost every female developer I know — as well as some men — furious with him. I’ve got recruiters pinging me promising they’ll steer candidates away from ArenaNet, and game design professors saying they’re going to warn their students away. I’ve also had a lot of ArenaNet co-workers and other industry colleagues contacting me to express how afraid this has made them.”

 

The term I used before is myopic. A great deal of time was spent speculating on why Chris Ryall of IDW comics would throw away millions of dollars on an open socialist that insulted the entire nation over 9/11. The conclusion that was drawn was that IDW was such an ideological echo chamber that Ryall had no scope of how bad the outrage over Aubrey Sitterson's comics and comments were. So, when Ryall doubled down and said "come at me, bro," Hasbro trounced him into the ground.

 

The moral of the story is this: never believe the speculations on scope from somebody who uses block bots and lives in an ideological echo-chamber. Clearly, "every female developer I know" really means "all the ones who I didn't block because I didn't like". The only recruiter agencies that are going to ping JP about their policies are the ones that share her radical feminist positions. All of the normal recruiters are steering clear of JP precisely because she throws ideological crises tantrums like this. She can't even understand that this outrage isn't coming from bots and sock puppets, it is coming from the hordes of normal people that outnumber her 10:1.

 

If this has made Anet workers afraid, then _good._ Being afraid of messing up at your job is the number one way to avoid messing up at your job. A lack of concern breeds carelessness. Whether you're holding a welding torch or dealing with customer service, there should always be a voice in the back of your mind that says "there will be repercussions for screwing up, so don't."

 

>Price is an experienced writer in gaming and has also worked on comics, animated series and novels. Her resume includes companies such as Microsoft and Harebrained Schemes. She said she was previously fired from a role-playing game company for complaining about its lack of response to a male business associate who sexually harassed women at the company.

 

You know, I just can't find that post that went over her history at the tabletop company, but unless my memory is fooling me, _that ain't how it happened._

 

>Price said she now regrets boosting ArenaNet as a good place to work. “I looked every female narrative designer on the team in the eye and told her, ‘This place will value you, and will let you be who you are.’ They trusted me, and I led them wrong.

 

>“The wounds from GamerGate had just started to heal in terms of women in the industry starting to relax and trust their employers,” Price added. “The fact that it was a company that touts itself as welcoming to marginalized talent that may have reignited a hate campaign designed to drive marginalized talent out of games is a very painful irony.”

 

A good way to test if sexism is present is to take the events that occurred, and switch the genders around. As it happens, we have just that: both a man and a woman were fired for these events. The claim of sexism and the Gamergate are nebulous at best and outright lies at worse, due to this contrary evidence. She myopically believes that all women not only hold her views, but are valued because of those views. Then again, it could be possible on the local level: As mah boi Zack AKA Richard C. Meyers says: "A+ people are looking to hire other A+ people. B people are looking to hire _B and lower._" So, it could be that all of the women she tried to bring into Anet are just like her.

 

The problem with seeking out marginalized talent is the same problem that Marvel comics faced. It isn't that there's any feature inherent to race or sex that makes somebody less capable of making a game. The problem is that the people who scream their marginalized status the strongest are professional victims. When Heather Antos was brought on to Marvel as work girlfriend and to diversify the place, she went for every YA author that made a name for themselves by complaining about the evil white he-devil capitalists. This stocked the roster of writers full with people who had no real talent, which then proceeded to write terrible comics. Except for Saladim Ahmed. That guy is a poet. Anyway, when people complained "Hey, you replaced all the famous characters everybody loved in the movies with blandly capable Mary Sues that have no personality and terrible writing/dialogue/plot", the response from writers was "you're all racist/sexist/whatever."

 

To the uninformed observer, this can make things seem that all of the whatevergates are about targeting women and minorities for criticism. But in reality, that isn't what is happening. The targets are the toxic elements with toxic ideologies. It just so happens that these toxic people with toxic ideologies failed upward to their current position precisely because they have some kind of minority status. The moral of this story is that correlation doesn't equal causation.

 

>Price said she has no regrets about her response to Deroir, although she said she might have moderated her language a little. “Given that the term ‘kittenhat’ was apparently a sticking point for ArenaNet, I’d maybe use ‘condescending jerk’ instead,” she said. “Men pop up in my mentions to tell me how to do my job all the time. They pop up to explain my female colleagues’ own jokes to them.

 

Yeah, no. Condescending jerk would've gotten Price fired equally as fast. Hell, it's meaner than "kittenhat" because "kittenhat" is at least funny sounding. The sad part is the lack of shame here. I already talked about how Deroir deserves and apology above. Price has clearly learned nothing, not in professionalism or introspection.

 

What makes this sadder is that I shouldn't be the smarter person, here. I have aspergers, so I sort of just herp the derp over people and hope they have the emotional fortitude to handle my weirdness. Learning expectations for me is really slow, because everyone is mannequin faced. Even then, it still feels terrible whenever social interaction goes bad, even if it isn't my fault. When it comes to social graces and good business practices, I'm a paraplegic who has to tell the able-bodied how to walk properly.

 

>“Male game devs deal with it too. Gamers don’t seem to believe expertise exists. But it’s not the constant deluge it is for women. Which was the point of the tweets that Peter made that got him fired: He was saying, ‘Hey, this is about gender, because I’m out here talking about the same stuff she’s talking about, and this doesn’t happen to me.’”

 

I'm going to call shenanigans on this. The issue of trust in expertise is predicated on previous performance. GW2 has a rocky start, both in narrative and mechanically. It stems to reason that feedback is what brought these issues to light, let alone resolved them. Likewise, the simple fact is that diffused knowledge is superior to centralized knowledge. To completely dismiss customer feedback is to assert that you're smarter than not just one customer, but every single customer. Listening to and understanding feedback is important for any industry, let alone one based on subjective praise.

 

To end, I'm going to repeat the amended rules for SJWs, as you have all born witness to above:

 

"They always lie"

"They always project"

"They always double down"

"They always turn on you"

 

Of which we have seen all 4. Mike's decision to fire JP was the right one, because I doubt she would've left the company on good terms. With such a hostile and indignant mind, it as only a matter of time before she caterwauled oppression in Arenanets direction over some other perceived slight.

 

And that is why nobody respects Kotaku... err... Polygon.

[TheBravery.9615]

> @"Haleydawn.3764" said:

> Whatever you thought of the tweets, Jessica and Peter were also part of the team that brought you the kidnapping scene in Episode 1, which was a wonderfully well-executed scene. That’s how I want to remember their time at ArenaNet.”

 

Huh?

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

> @"Zaklex.6308" said:

>

> You said yourself in your previous post that mansplaining wasn't a thing...either it is or it isn't...make up your mind.

 

Now you're just being difficult. You know what I mean.

[Traveller.7496]

I want to thank the developers for taking the time to interact with the community. In all my years I've played this game I've had nothing but pleasant experiences dealing with them and I can tell they don't have to pretend to like us, unlike some people.

[maddoctor.2738]

From that polygon article:

 

> Let’s be clear: In 2018, it’s absurd to pretend ignorance of what would happen to a woman **fired for speaking about sexism**, because he feels she got too uppity

Fired for speaking about sexism? This was never about sexism.

 

> Given that the term ‘asshat’ was apparently a sticking point for ArenaNet, I’d maybe use **‘condescending jerk’** instead

That doesn't make it better.

 

Oh my god she STILL doesn't get it. As I said before, good riddance.

[Dengar.1785]

> @"DaShi.1368" said:

> > @"morrolan.9608" said:

> > MOB's Polygon statement still doesn't address exactly why Peter Was fired.

>

> Yeah, nor does it counter anything Jessica had said. It sounds very hastily CYA'd. I'm hearing protecting employees, but not seeing it. Oh well.

 

Jessica: MO caved to a mob

MO: I didn’t cave to a mob

[Dragon.4032]

All that I've said so far, I'm going to draw my conclusion. I prefer to acknowledge the dev community as much as I enjoy playing the game they create for us. I don't consider consumers and devs separately to be needing to take either sides on a crisis. I'd rather prefer that the community understands each other and solve the crisis at not someone's peril but as a community benefiting the whole. This is not some kumbaya song you need to sing. It's a basic etiquette the society has swept under the rug. And most people react to crisis as in who to blame. This doesn't really solve the underlying problem but will eventually come back around to hit you in life's larger aspect. No one's inherently nasty, there is always a reason, and some situations may be more difficult than others. Good luck to you all.

[Loli Ruri.8307]

> @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > > > So I found this definition, and it wasn't on wikipedia or urban dictionary(which is the only place I find womansplain):

> > > > > man·splain

> > > > > manˈsplān/Submit

> > > > > verbinformal

> > > > > gerund or present participle: mansplaining

> > > > > (of a man) explain (something) to someone, typically a woman, in a manner regarded as condescending or patronizing.

> > > > > "I'm listening to a guy mansplain economics to his wife"

> > > > > Now tell us again how mansplaining isn't a thing? All I did was do a simple Google search for both terms, and it appears that it was added to Merriam-Webster just this past March, which now makes it a legitimate thing.

> > > > >

> > > > > Oh, and in case anyone hasn't seen this article yet, just read it, it includes a full response from MO and more anecdotes from JP: https://www.polygon.com/2018/7/9/17549492/arenanet-jessica-price-guild-wars-2-writer-fired

> > > >

> > > > Mansplaining isn't a thing. It's really simple: anyone can talk down to somebody else in a condescending or patronizing manner, no matter who that other person is. There's no inherent sex bias to the act. To call it "mansplaining" is a deliberate manipulation to further a misandrist agenda and permits someone to dismiss information without thinking about it. It is a lie. There is no mansplaining anymore than there is manbreathing, manwalking, or manlistening.

> > >

> > > I'm not saying it's necessarily a thing, all I'm saying is that now it's been given a definition and made part of our lexicon, just like other made up words have been in the past, and I do prefer the Merriam-Webster definition better:

> > > Mansplaining is, at its core, a very specific thing. It's what occurs when a man talks condescendingly to someone (especially a woman) about something he has incomplete knowledge of, with the mistaken assumption that he knows more about it than the person he's talking to does.

> >

> > We all know the connotations and uses of the term. Don't pretend that they don't exist.

>

> You said yourself in your previous post that mansplaining wasn't a thing...either it is or it isn't...make up your mind.

If mansplaining exists, I wonder what it means to womansplain. Or do we call it nagging? When you read nagging, yes you whoever is reading this right now, did you immediately get offended? So when you read mansplaining, do you also get equally offended? I know that nagging does not work, because men can only change themselves. You can't force somebody to do something, kinda like you can't make a horse drink, only drown if you push it's head under water. So what exactly is mansplaining? Because the people I see who use this offensive term, usually are advocates for segregation. These same people also tend to be hypocrites; but isn't everybody at some time? Realistically, humans just suck. But we all want the same kind of things tho. Just that some people want to be treated nice, while at the same time, believe that nobody else is worth their time to be treated nice in return. Usually excuses are made, and as a result, we get bad results. I'm sure the murderers in prison have reasons too. Just don't do it. Kinda like how one should not burn their customers who were being polite and reasonable. But of course one should not do that, we know that. But making up excuses can result in that happening, because we justify it in our own heads. This is why Jessica Price is still thinking she's right, and the community and everything else but her, is wrong. Pride before the crash. /rant

[Loli Ruri.8307]

> @"Maxajax.6350" said:

> > @"Briolase.7306" said:

> > I've uninstalled. I know none of you care and will probably attack me for my disagreement. This entire thread and its contents are the reason I've left the game. I no longer feel welcome, as a woman, and as a person who disagrees with the ravening horde. I don't agree with Mike O'Brien's hasty actions in firing JP and PF, but I understand that he's human, that he might have panicked in the face of internet outrage. His statement here was a non-statement, and his statement to polygon wasn't much better. Whether or not his actions were a direct reaction to the outrage or not, he should have known that his actions would embolden the worst of the internet. It has divided the community, it has turned this community into a place where I no longer feel comfortable. The values portrayed in game - the inclusion of women, people of color, the lgbt community, and the disabled - seems to not be reflected behind the scenes. It is disheartening and depressing.

> >

> > This thread is full of people crowing with glee over two people whose careers have been derailed, their lives upended. Anyone who disagrees with the mob is shouted down, accused of "siding with bullies" or of having political motives, or even of not being a part of the community. I've been playing since beta. I love this game. GW2 is my therapy for a stressful life and an anxiety disorder. But I don't feel welcome anymore.

> >

> > I suppose I should not be surprised by the attitudes expressed by so many players, but I always held GW2's community to higher standards. I should have known all this ugliness was lurking beneath the surface just waiting to be unleashed by an event such as this.

> >

> > Yes yes, I know, I'm the toxic one for daring to disagree with this morbid celebration. Yes yes, I know, you're glad I'm leaving. And no, you can't have my stuff.

>

> I don't think the mob had anything to do with it. JP and PF said things on Twitter that made it morally and practically wrong to retain them as employees. That does not mean that people ought to be celebrating the loss of two devs. Especially PF who has been working on GW1 and 2 for a long time. It is still a loss for the game. Doubly so when the media puts a fictional spin on it to make Mike and Anet look bad for doing the right thing, causing players to leave the game. Regardless of your views, I hope that you find a place where you are happy.

 

And yet Jessica Price celebrated the death of TotalBiscuit to cancer.

[Dengar.1785]

I feel like this needs to be said, and I think I speak for many here:

 

I do not celebrate the firing of two people. There is nothing to be happy about here. I most certainly do not approve of the smug tweets being made at PF. And while I have no sympathy for JP, I really do not think people should be stopping to her level.

 

I do, however, celebrate that a company that invests in its community has its community’s back in times when it is being treated unfairly. And if you call me ‘toxic’ for doing so, then I’m sorry, but from my perspective you are part of the problem that has lead to this mess.

[morrolan.9608]

> @"Loli Ruri.8307" said:

> > @"Maxajax.6350" said:

> > > @"Briolase.7306" said:

> > > I've uninstalled. I know none of you care and will probably attack me for my disagreement. This entire thread and its contents are the reason I've left the game. I no longer feel welcome, as a woman, and as a person who disagrees with the ravening horde. I don't agree with Mike O'Brien's hasty actions in firing JP and PF, but I understand that he's human, that he might have panicked in the face of internet outrage. His statement here was a non-statement, and his statement to polygon wasn't much better. Whether or not his actions were a direct reaction to the outrage or not, he should have known that his actions would embolden the worst of the internet. It has divided the community, it has turned this community into a place where I no longer feel comfortable. The values portrayed in game - the inclusion of women, people of color, the lgbt community, and the disabled - seems to not be reflected behind the scenes. It is disheartening and depressing.

> > >

> > > This thread is full of people crowing with glee over two people whose careers have been derailed, their lives upended. Anyone who disagrees with the mob is shouted down, accused of "siding with bullies" or of having political motives, or even of not being a part of the community. I've been playing since beta. I love this game. GW2 is my therapy for a stressful life and an anxiety disorder. But I don't feel welcome anymore.

> > >

> > > I suppose I should not be surprised by the attitudes expressed by so many players, but I always held GW2's community to higher standards. I should have known all this ugliness was lurking beneath the surface just waiting to be unleashed by an event such as this.

> > >

> > > Yes yes, I know, I'm the toxic one for daring to disagree with this morbid celebration. Yes yes, I know, you're glad I'm leaving. And no, you can't have my stuff.

> >

> > I don't think the mob had anything to do with it. JP and PF said things on Twitter that made it morally and practically wrong to retain them as employees. That does not mean that people ought to be celebrating the loss of two devs. Especially PF who has been working on GW1 and 2 for a long time. It is still a loss for the game. Doubly so when the media puts a fictional spin on it to make Mike and Anet look bad for doing the right thing, causing players to leave the game. Regardless of your views, I hope that you find a place where you are happy.

>

> And yet Jessica Price celebrated the death of TotalBiscuit to cancer.

 

So its not OK for Price to do that but its OK to celebrate 2 devs being fired?

[Loli Ruri.8307]

> @"morrolan.9608" said:

> > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said:

> > > @"Maxajax.6350" said:

> > > > @"Briolase.7306" said:

> > > > I've uninstalled. I know none of you care and will probably attack me for my disagreement. This entire thread and its contents are the reason I've left the game. I no longer feel welcome, as a woman, and as a person who disagrees with the ravening horde. I don't agree with Mike O'Brien's hasty actions in firing JP and PF, but I understand that he's human, that he might have panicked in the face of internet outrage. His statement here was a non-statement, and his statement to polygon wasn't much better. Whether or not his actions were a direct reaction to the outrage or not, he should have known that his actions would embolden the worst of the internet. It has divided the community, it has turned this community into a place where I no longer feel comfortable. The values portrayed in game - the inclusion of women, people of color, the lgbt community, and the disabled - seems to not be reflected behind the scenes. It is disheartening and depressing.

> > > >

> > > > This thread is full of people crowing with glee over two people whose careers have been derailed, their lives upended. Anyone who disagrees with the mob is shouted down, accused of "siding with bullies" or of having political motives, or even of not being a part of the community. I've been playing since beta. I love this game. GW2 is my therapy for a stressful life and an anxiety disorder. But I don't feel welcome anymore.

> > > >

> > > > I suppose I should not be surprised by the attitudes expressed by so many players, but I always held GW2's community to higher standards. I should have known all this ugliness was lurking beneath the surface just waiting to be unleashed by an event such as this.

> > > >

> > > > Yes yes, I know, I'm the toxic one for daring to disagree with this morbid celebration. Yes yes, I know, you're glad I'm leaving. And no, you can't have my stuff.

> > >

> > > I don't think the mob had anything to do with it. JP and PF said things on Twitter that made it morally and practically wrong to retain them as employees. That does not mean that people ought to be celebrating the loss of two devs. Especially PF who has been working on GW1 and 2 for a long time. It is still a loss for the game. Doubly so when the media puts a fictional spin on it to make Mike and Anet look bad for doing the right thing, causing players to leave the game. Regardless of your views, I hope that you find a place where you are happy.

> >

> > And yet Jessica Price celebrated the death of TotalBiscuit to cancer.

>

> So its not OK for Price to do that but its OK to celebrate 2 devs being fired?

TotalBiscuit died to cancer. He didn't get cancer from Karma. Okay. You can be a saint and get cancer. You can be a tyrant and get cancer.

 

However if you get fired for creating a PR nightmare, sure, celebration. But really tho? As far as I know, her works were reasonable and good. Phil Fish made a successful game, but in reality, he was a jerk who was hated by everybody for his attitude. People celebrated his demise, not because he died of cancer, but because he deserved everything he got for his "actions". Karma doesn't kill you with cancer. But resting in the bed that you made, however, is your own fault. If we were talking about an unfair dismissal, kinda like Doug Adler, who was describing Williams’ aggressive style in tennis as “guerrilla” tactics and not comparing her to a “gorilla.” was fired due to SJW outrage. That is actually unfair dismissal. But what Jessica Price did is not the same as Doug Adler.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

> @"Dengar.1785" said:

> I feel like this needs to be said, and I think I speak for many here:

>

> I do not celebrate the firing of two people. There is nothing to be happy about here. I most certainly do not approve of the smug tweets being made at PF. And while I have no sympathy for JP, I really do not think people should be stopping to her level.

>

> I do, however, celebrate that a company that invests in its community has its community’s back in times when it is being treated unfairly. And if you call me ‘toxic’ for doing so, then I’m sorry, but from my perspective you are part of the problem that has lead to this mess.

 

I find it regrettable that the firing was necessary. But it was necessary.

[Dengar.1785]

> @"morrolan.9608" said:

> > @"Loli Ruri.8307" said:

> > > @"Maxajax.6350" said:

> > > > @"Briolase.7306" said:

> > > > I've uninstalled. I know none of you care and will probably attack me for my disagreement. This entire thread and its contents are the reason I've left the game. I no longer feel welcome, as a woman, and as a person who disagrees with the ravening horde. I don't agree with Mike O'Brien's hasty actions in firing JP and PF, but I understand that he's human, that he might have panicked in the face of internet outrage. His statement here was a non-statement, and his statement to polygon wasn't much better. Whether or not his actions were a direct reaction to the outrage or not, he should have known that his actions would embolden the worst of the internet. It has divided the community, it has turned this community into a place where I no longer feel comfortable. The values portrayed in game - the inclusion of women, people of color, the lgbt community, and the disabled - seems to not be reflected behind the scenes. It is disheartening and depressing.

> > > >

> > > > This thread is full of people crowing with glee over two people whose careers have been derailed, their lives upended. Anyone who disagrees with the mob is shouted down, accused of "siding with bullies" or of having political motives, or even of not being a part of the community. I've been playing since beta. I love this game. GW2 is my therapy for a stressful life and an anxiety disorder. But I don't feel welcome anymore.

> > > >

> > > > I suppose I should not be surprised by the attitudes expressed by so many players, but I always held GW2's community to higher standards. I should have known all this ugliness was lurking beneath the surface just waiting to be unleashed by an event such as this.

> > > >

> > > > Yes yes, I know, I'm the toxic one for daring to disagree with this morbid celebration. Yes yes, I know, you're glad I'm leaving. And no, you can't have my stuff.

> > >

> > > I don't think the mob had anything to do with it. JP and PF said things on Twitter that made it morally and practically wrong to retain them as employees. That does not mean that people ought to be celebrating the loss of two devs. Especially PF who has been working on GW1 and 2 for a long time. It is still a loss for the game. Doubly so when the media puts a fictional spin on it to make Mike and Anet look bad for doing the right thing, causing players to leave the game. Regardless of your views, I hope that you find a place where you are happy.

> >

> > And yet Jessica Price celebrated the death of TotalBiscuit to cancer.

>

> So its not OK for Price to do that but its OK to celebrate 2 devs being fired?

 

False equivalence, plus that’s coming right on the tail of my post where I explain that the firing is not what most of us are celebrating.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > @"Maxajax.6350" said:

> > > @"Briolase.7306" said:

> > > I've uninstalled. I know none of you care and will probably attack me for my disagreement. This entire thread and its contents are the reason I've left the game. I no longer feel welcome, as a woman, and as a person who disagrees with the ravening horde. I don't agree with Mike O'Brien's hasty actions in firing JP and PF, but I understand that he's human, that he might have panicked in the face of internet outrage. His statement here was a non-statement, and his statement to polygon wasn't much better. Whether or not his actions were a direct reaction to the outrage or not, he should have known that his actions would embolden the worst of the internet. It has divided the community, it has turned this community into a place where I no longer feel comfortable. The values portrayed in game - the inclusion of women, people of color, the lgbt community, and the disabled - seems to not be reflected behind the scenes. It is disheartening and depressing.

> > >

> > > This thread is full of people crowing with glee over two people whose careers have been derailed, their lives upended. Anyone who disagrees with the mob is shouted down, accused of "siding with bullies" or of having political motives, or even of not being a part of the community. I've been playing since beta. I love this game. GW2 is my therapy for a stressful life and an anxiety disorder. But I don't feel welcome anymore.

> > >

> > > I suppose I should not be surprised by the attitudes expressed by so many players, but I always held GW2's community to higher standards. I should have known all this ugliness was lurking beneath the surface just waiting to be unleashed by an event such as this.

> > >

> > > Yes yes, I know, I'm the toxic one for daring to disagree with this morbid celebration. Yes yes, I know, you're glad I'm leaving. And no, you can't have my stuff.

> >

> > I don't think the mob had anything to do with it. JP and PF said things on Twitter that made it morally and practically wrong to retain them as employees. That does not mean that people ought to be celebrating the loss of two devs. Especially PF who has been working on GW1 and 2 for a long time. It is still a loss for the game. Doubly so when the media puts a fictional spin on it to make Mike and Anet look bad for doing the right thing, causing players to leave the game. Regardless of your views, I hope that you find a place where you are happy.

>

> At least part of your statement is correct, MO and ArenaNet will look bad and it will cause players to leave the game...perhaps not as many as if he had kept probably the two best writers on the team, but still, people will leave, because in the end. An employer should always have their employees back in a dispute with a customer...always, that is a fundamental tenet of being a good leader(whether that's from a Lead all the way up to a CEO, you should always have your employees backs).

 

Interesting pie in the sky idea.. tell me, who has the employees backs if the PR disaster that could well of unfolded had caused aa significant enough loss of business revenue and forced those same leaders to make much larger chunks of the workforce redundant.. I am curious. Have you ever run a business or even been responsible for one and the employees within it... I am guessing you haven't.

Businesses employee leaders for the control and betterment of the business whether that be communication, training, product design, QA, HR, PR etc etc. Those leaders are not there to hand hold individuals that step out of line, they are their to ensure the smooth running and continued success of that business.. they are deemed responsible people with responsibilities to the business and for the employees below them.

Within the business leadership there is also a structure and when a decision gets made from someone at the top of that structure, you better believe it was deemed very much a necessity, not a knee jerk reaction to calm some online angry mob.

[Jukhy.2431]

> @"Edge.4180" said:

> > @"Jukhy.2431" said:

> > Here's a fact based video explaining it very well:

> >

> >

>

> I agree that video does a great job at reviewing the events.

>

> Price's comments were uncalled for and out of line. I don't fault ArenaNet's reaction or decision, and am pretty disappointed with the way segments of the gaming media have misrepresented this story.

>

>

 

If there's any silver lining in all this mess, it's how this has been an eye-opening experience to those who read the articles but decided to do some fact checking and found out how badly these "journalists" misrepresented it.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> At least part of your statement is correct, MO and ArenaNet will look bad and it will cause players to leave the game...perhaps not as many as if he had kept probably the two best writers on the team, but still, people will leave, because in the end. An employer should always have their employees back in a dispute with a customer...always, that is a fundamental tenet of being a good leader(whether that's from a Lead all the way up to a CEO, you should always have your employees backs).

 

IF you read MOs reply here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/594568/#Comment_594568 you will find this:

> In this case, however, our employees could have chosen not to engage, and they could have brought the issue to the company, whereby we would have done everything we could to protect them.

> We won’t tolerate harassment. When an employee feels harassed, we want them to bring the issue to us, so that we can protect the employee, deal with the issue, and use it to speak to the larger issue of harassment.

They would've protected them, if they did not escalate the situation beyond saving. They would've protected them if they did not take matters into their own hands and continue harassing their customers, repeatedly.