Pyroatheist.9031 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Lanhelin.3480" said: > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > > @"Lanhelin.3480" said: > > > I really don't understand why the torch was nerfed to the ground even in PvE. This was the only weapon that applied sort of condi "burst" good enough against low level mobs allowing the Mesmer to not run away a few seconds. Were these skills OP in PvE? > > > > This, at least, I can happily inform you is incorrect. If you actually read the notes, you'd notice that the total burning duration applied by each skill remains the same, resulting in marginally slower ramp-up but unaffected dps. > > Sacrificing burst for duration means running. What? The mobs aren't going to run away and cleanse it. It's not a nerf for PvE like it is in PvP or WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenith.7301 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Why in hell would they nerf Blurred Frenzy damage in PvE? Power chrono was already below mirage, what is wrong with them? Can't have a viable power option for mesmer in PvE.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mginn.4502 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Nevermind, I found my mistake. Curse you nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korgov.7645 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Blink is now reporting No valid path to target errors more than before. No mention in the release notes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyroatheist.9031 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 I'll just copy and paste my comment from the other thread. Previously you could activate blurred frenzy every 12 seconds. Fencer's finesse reduced this to 9.6, and alacrity reduced it to 6.4 seconds. Previously it would take 1.75 seconds to activate, so a full damage cycle would take 8.15 seconds. The base cooldown is now 10 seconds. Fencer's finesse reduces this cooldown to 8 seconds. Alacrity reduces this to 5.33 seconds. The activation takes 1 second, so a full damage cycle takes 6.33 seconds. The new blurred frenzy cycles in 77% of the time of old blurred frenzy. New blurred frenzy does 64% of the damage. **The new blurred frenzy has been nerfed to about 82% of old blurred frenzy.** Why they felt the need to nerf an already non-top-tier dps build is beyond me, but I've never been one to accuse the balance devs of silly things like foresight, planning, logic, or good practices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurDent.9538 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"OriOri.8724" said: > The BF nerf is more than a damage nerf, its a big nerf to core mesmers ability to evade attacks. That's almost a 50% reduction in the blur duration from BF, but it was mirage that needed evade nerfs, not core mesmer. That one really confuses me. I don't see how that will bring mirage evade spam in line at all. > > Also those torch changes are very interesting. Does this mean that ANet has given up on the idea that conditions need to be bursty? Because all of those changes are almost the exact opposite of what happened a few balance patches ago when Anet took a look at skills/traits that apply conditions across the board and made >90% much more bursty, with more stacks but for a smaller duration. > > Then some random aegis sharing nerfs, but nothing to address the evade spam or fix EM. You have it entirely backwards, they reduced the stacks and increased the durations across the board for just about everything other than mesmer confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicTurtle.8571 Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"ArthurDent.9538" said: > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > The BF nerf is more than a damage nerf, its a big nerf to core mesmers ability to evade attacks. That's almost a 50% reduction in the blur duration from BF, but it was mirage that needed evade nerfs, not core mesmer. That one really confuses me. I don't see how that will bring mirage evade spam in line at all. > > > > Also those torch changes are very interesting. Does this mean that ANet has given up on the idea that conditions need to be bursty? Because all of those changes are almost the exact opposite of what happened a few balance patches ago when Anet took a look at skills/traits that apply conditions across the board and made >90% much more bursty, with more stacks but for a smaller duration. > > > > Then some random aegis sharing nerfs, but nothing to address the evade spam or fix EM. > > You have it entirely backwards, they reduced the stacks and increased the durations across the board for just about everything other than mesmer confusion. That was only for Torch otherwise about every other listed condition was reduced in duration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mevaris.5970 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Any dps tests so far? For me the best results were: Full viper. x2 Malign infusions, 16 Spiteful Infusions. Rare Veggie Pizza, Toxic Focusing Crystal. -> 100% condi duration with Chaos Trait line + 8 buffs. **31,5k-32k DPS** Nightmare+Trapper runes + Illusion trait line - would give even less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jojo.6590 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 PVP/WVW response: These "nerfs" are funny if anything. People on the forums whom don't play Mesmer state what they felt was wrong. Yet most (**key word most, not all**) were wrong. This won't change power and condi mesmer specs by much, if any. The torch 4 & 5 skills for Mesmer have a very long cd and are very difficult to **land all 3 hits** (going into stealth, coming out of stealth, and the phant's atk). Because of this most people rarely land all 3 hits let alone the first 1-2. As its been repeated over and over and over (still beating a dead horse) ... and over the sword ambush needs to be changed: reduce the leap range, require a target, remove the stun or the clone. Elusive mind (em) needs to be changed, it grants way too much forgiveness for when a Mesmer messes up. The endurance debuff does nothing to EM, it needs a complete rework or an ICD. To end this out, if you need your car fixed you're going to go to a auto mechanic, while when you need to be "fixed" you're going to a doctor. Not the other way around. 95-99% of the statements by Mesmer mains on whats broken with the class are surprisingly upfront and honest. Yet for someone reason Anet keeps asking the "doctors" how to fix their car and not the mechanics. Because of this Mesmer will continue to not properly be balanced. Edited: Removed the ** by some words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanhelin.3480 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > @"Lanhelin.3480" said: > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > > > @"Lanhelin.3480" said: > > > > I really don't understand why the torch was nerfed to the ground even in PvE. This was the only weapon that applied sort of condi "burst" good enough against low level mobs allowing the Mesmer to not run away a few seconds. Were these skills OP in PvE? > > > > > > This, at least, I can happily inform you is incorrect. If you actually read the notes, you'd notice that the total burning duration applied by each skill remains the same, resulting in marginally slower ramp-up but unaffected dps. > > > > Sacrificing burst for duration means running. > > What? The mobs aren't going to run away and cleanse it. It's not a nerf for PvE like it is in PvP or WvW. Not the mobs, the Mesmer. But it's nothing we're not used to, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyroatheist.9031 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"Lanhelin.3480" said: > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > > @"Lanhelin.3480" said: > > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > > > > @"Lanhelin.3480" said: > > > > > I really don't understand why the torch was nerfed to the ground even in PvE. This was the only weapon that applied sort of condi "burst" good enough against low level mobs allowing the Mesmer to not run away a few seconds. Were these skills OP in PvE? > > > > > > > > This, at least, I can happily inform you is incorrect. If you actually read the notes, you'd notice that the total burning duration applied by each skill remains the same, resulting in marginally slower ramp-up but unaffected dps. > > > > > > Sacrificing burst for duration means running. > > > > What? The mobs aren't going to run away and cleanse it. It's not a nerf for PvE like it is in PvP or WvW. > > Not the mobs, the Mesmer. But it's nothing we're not used to, right? > @"Lanhelin.3480" said: > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > > @"Lanhelin.3480" said: > > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > > > > @"Lanhelin.3480" said: > > > > > I really don't understand why the torch was nerfed to the ground even in PvE. This was the only weapon that applied sort of condi "burst" good enough against low level mobs allowing the Mesmer to not run away a few seconds. Were these skills OP in PvE? > > > > > > > > This, at least, I can happily inform you is incorrect. If you actually read the notes, you'd notice that the total burning duration applied by each skill remains the same, resulting in marginally slower ramp-up but unaffected dps. > > > > > > Sacrificing burst for duration means running. > > > > What? The mobs aren't going to run away and cleanse it. It's not a nerf for PvE like it is in PvP or WvW. > > Not the mobs, the Mesmer. But it's nothing we're not used to, right? If you're having enough difficulty in open world PvE that you think you have to run away from mobs waiting for the conditions to tick, I don't think any nerfs Anet implements are going to affect you much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Apparently immunity to being punished and asinine mobility for one specific elite spec is a "theme" of the class lmao. Welp, I guess this confirms Mirage will never not be blatantly overpowered unless they nerf core mes to being total trash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriOri.8724 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > Apparently immunity to being punished and asinine mobility for one specific elite spec is a "theme" of the class lmao. > > Welp, I guess this confirms Mirage will never not be blatantly overpowered unless they nerf core mes to being total trash. Wasn't that confirmed when Anet completely ignored all of our suggestions on how to balance/address EM and instead added exhaustion to it? Or even further back, when mirage was first leaked and we were the only people telling Anet how stupidly broken EM would be before it was even in game, and they ignored us then too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vieux P.1238 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Guy's i know how it looks but will do what we have done every time. Adapt. I'm running a new build that i'm not sharing. But i'm doing fairly good considering the nerfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyroatheist.9031 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > Welp, I guess this confirms Mirage will never not be blatantly overpowered unless they nerf core mes to being total trash. Don't feel too bad! Nerfing core mes to utter trash is definitely on the table! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squallaus.8321 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 How did confusion changes increase Mesmer damage across the board =_=; This feels like another patch aimed at WvW/PVP but unnecessarily hurt Mesmer dps in PVE.... give mirage a bit of dmg back in pve please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > Apparently immunity to being punished and asinine mobility for one specific elite spec is a "theme" of the class lmao. > > > > Welp, I guess this confirms Mirage will never not be blatantly overpowered unless they nerf core mes to being total trash. > > Wasn't that confirmed when Anet completely ignored all of our suggestions on how to balance/address EM and instead added exhaustion to it? Or even further back, when mirage was first leaked and we were the only people telling Anet how stupidly broken EM would be before it was even in game, and they ignored us then too? EM is only half the problem, if that. Mirage Cloak innately allows the mesmer to dodge while CC'ed; the mesmer just can't cast skills while doing so, akin to Renewed Focus. The other major problem is endurance regen food allowing this to happen over and over. EM is just the cherry on top of the major systemic issues Mirage has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irokou.3215 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > Apparently immunity to being punished and asinine mobility for one specific elite spec is a "theme" of the class lmao. > > > > > > Welp, I guess this confirms Mirage will never not be blatantly overpowered unless they nerf core mes to being total trash. > > > > Wasn't that confirmed when Anet completely ignored all of our suggestions on how to balance/address EM and instead added exhaustion to it? Or even further back, when mirage was first leaked and we were the only people telling Anet how stupidly broken EM would be before it was even in game, and they ignored us then too? > > EM is only half the problem, if that. Mirage Cloak innately allows the mesmer to dodge while CC'ed; the mesmer just can't cast skills while doing so, akin to Renewed Focus. > The other major problem is endurance regen food allowing this to happen over and over. > > EM is just the cherry on top of the major systemic issues Mirage has. Throw out all logic, nerf blurred frenzy instead. That is the Anet way of thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicTurtle.8571 Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > Apparently immunity to being punished and asinine mobility for one specific elite spec is a "theme" of the class lmao. > > > > > > Welp, I guess this confirms Mirage will never not be blatantly overpowered unless they nerf core mes to being total trash. > > > > Wasn't that confirmed when Anet completely ignored all of our suggestions on how to balance/address EM and instead added exhaustion to it? Or even further back, when mirage was first leaked and we were the only people telling Anet how stupidly broken EM would be before it was even in game, and they ignored us then too? > > EM is only half the problem, if that. Mirage Cloak innately allows the mesmer to dodge while CC'ed; the mesmer just can't cast skills while doing so, akin to Renewed Focus. > The other major problem is endurance regen food allowing this to happen over and over. > > EM is just the cherry on top of the major systemic issues Mirage has. According to the patch notes, regarding dodging while CC'd, ANet says, "Get over it, it's the theme :D" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriOri.8724 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > Apparently immunity to being punished and asinine mobility for one specific elite spec is a "theme" of the class lmao. > > > > > > Welp, I guess this confirms Mirage will never not be blatantly overpowered unless they nerf core mes to being total trash. > > > > Wasn't that confirmed when Anet completely ignored all of our suggestions on how to balance/address EM and instead added exhaustion to it? Or even further back, when mirage was first leaked and we were the only people telling Anet how stupidly broken EM would be before it was even in game, and they ignored us then too? > > EM is only half the problem, if that. Mirage Cloak innately allows the mesmer to dodge while CC'ed; the mesmer just can't cast skills while doing so, akin to Renewed Focus. > The other major problem is endurance regen food allowing this to happen over and over. > > EM is just the cherry on top of the major systemic issues Mirage has. Dodging while CC'ed is not nearly as cancerous as stunbreak on dodge. Burning one of your dodges, something mirage can use offensively or for mobility via sword, to not be damaged while CCed is an interesting design choice for an elite spec. And its significantly less powerful than breaking out of a stun into mirage cloak. Just dodging while CCed lets you evade attacks, but you are still locked down. You are not maneuvering or counterattacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabbitUp.8294 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > Apparently immunity to being punished and asinine mobility for one specific elite spec is a "theme" of the class lmao. > > > > > > > > Welp, I guess this confirms Mirage will never not be blatantly overpowered unless they nerf core mes to being total trash. > > > > > > Wasn't that confirmed when Anet completely ignored all of our suggestions on how to balance/address EM and instead added exhaustion to it? Or even further back, when mirage was first leaked and we were the only people telling Anet how stupidly broken EM would be before it was even in game, and they ignored us then too? > > > > EM is only half the problem, if that. Mirage Cloak innately allows the mesmer to dodge while CC'ed; the mesmer just can't cast skills while doing so, akin to Renewed Focus. > > The other major problem is endurance regen food allowing this to happen over and over. > > > > EM is just the cherry on top of the major systemic issues Mirage has. > > Dodging while CC'ed is not nearly as cancerous as stunbreak on dodge. Burning one of your dodges, something mirage can use offensively or for mobility via sword, to not be damaged while CCed is an interesting design choice for an elite spec. The opportunity cost is the same, whether you use EM or not. Actually, EM takes a grandmaster slot and applies Exhaustion, so the cost is greater. > And its significantly less powerful than breaking out of a stun into mirage cloak. Just dodging while CCed lets you evade attacks, but you are still locked down. You are not maneuvering or counterattacking. Few cc are longer than a second, and most if not all of those are telegraphed, so you can evade them before they land. Then it becomes an issue of l2p, with EM lowering the skill floor at the price of exhaustion. Mirage Cloak by default also lets you dodge while immobilised, which you can only get rid of with condi cleanse, and is otherwise a counter to dodging. As for counterattacking, both Dune Cloak and Infinite Horizon let you counter attack better if you don't pick EM, since you get more damage from your dodges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaylin.1860 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 The nerfs to Blurred Frenzy are unfortunate. However, let's talk about more important topics. Like... where are my underwater Wells? :'( :s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hauteclaire.4327 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Do you guys believe that Power Chrono still viable after this nerf? I hit level 80 like 3 days ago and I'm pretending play as a power chrono in fractals and raids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriOri.8724 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"RabbitUp.8294" said: > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > > Apparently immunity to being punished and asinine mobility for one specific elite spec is a "theme" of the class lmao. > > > > > > > > > > Welp, I guess this confirms Mirage will never not be blatantly overpowered unless they nerf core mes to being total trash. > > > > > > > > Wasn't that confirmed when Anet completely ignored all of our suggestions on how to balance/address EM and instead added exhaustion to it? Or even further back, when mirage was first leaked and we were the only people telling Anet how stupidly broken EM would be before it was even in game, and they ignored us then too? > > > > > > EM is only half the problem, if that. Mirage Cloak innately allows the mesmer to dodge while CC'ed; the mesmer just can't cast skills while doing so, akin to Renewed Focus. > > > The other major problem is endurance regen food allowing this to happen over and over. > > > > > > EM is just the cherry on top of the major systemic issues Mirage has. > > > > Dodging while CC'ed is not nearly as cancerous as stunbreak on dodge. Burning one of your dodges, something mirage can use offensively or for mobility via sword, to not be damaged while CCed is an interesting design choice for an elite spec. > > The opportunity cost is the same, whether you use EM or not. Actually, EM takes a grandmaster slot and applies Exhaustion, so the cost is greater. > > > And its significantly less powerful than breaking out of a stun into mirage cloak. Just dodging while CCed lets you evade attacks, but you are still locked down. You are not maneuvering or counterattacking. > > Few cc are longer than a second, and most if not all of those are telegraphed, so you can evade them before they land. Then it becomes an issue of l2p, with EM lowering the skill floor at the price of exhaustion. Mirage Cloak by default also lets you dodge while immobilised, which you can only get rid of with condi cleanse, and is otherwise a counter to dodging. > > As for counterattacking, both Dune Cloak and Infinite Horizon let you counter attack better if you don't pick EM, since you get more damage from your dodges. I don't disagree with you, but I do think that EM needs to be changed before Anet even looks at allowing mirage to dodge while CCed. Or even a compromise on the matter, changing EM to no longer being a stunbreak, but allowing mirage to dodge while CCed, and removing that ability for "core" mirage. That still retains the flavor of EM as making CC less effective on you, while still being significantly less broken than EM currently is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donutdude.9582 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 I am baffled by the Blurred Frenzy damage change. Sword Mesmer is a high-risk style of play - why on Earth nerf the damage? An adjustment to the evade time would make a lot more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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