Xaylin.1860

> @"Dirame.8521" said: > > @"Xaylin.1860" said: > > That's true for sure. I just don't like how unreliable it is in a prolonged fight. It might be on CD when I need it because it can be triggered by so many sources. Fair point on the CC around you. Even though this could be an advantage against some classes. > > You just made me realise that cool down. I will use Liberators Vow, letting go of the daze. It will make the quickness more on-call. > How dare you get rid of your Daze-Symbol?! But that makes Weighty Terms even more attractive. :p

> @"Dirame.8521" said: > Because the soft CC from Weighty happens right around you, I am not a fan of it. And since I have to waste two activations in order to make it work on command, I don't feel it is a good choice. Stalwart on the other hand allows for quicker attacks with the hammer which is what hammer needs to be truly painful. > That's true for sure. I just don't like how unreliable it is in a prolonged fight. It might be on CD when I need it because it can be triggered by so many sources. Fair point on the CC around you. Even though this could be an advantage against some classes. > @"Dirame.8521" said: > I thought of that. I would say it's an option worth considering but Merciful is technically a heal skill that doesn't take up a heal slot. It supplements the mantra heal keeping you alive and works great in team fights. More allies, more heals. > MA certainly is a better heal. Sanctury still heals though plus negates projectiles. I also find it amusing how many people overlook it because the animation is quite subtle or mistake it for something else. > @"Dirame.8521" said: > Oh that rotation was dream-state rotation ?. I wasn't thinking straight. That being said though I would be willing to sacrifice F1 if it would give my team the edge in a [... > [...] > If I was to hit multiple targets with that rotation then the proccs from the F1 would be great. Even if **all** those hits connected, what's an realistic assumption for PvP? Unless you're fighting a Mesmer, you're most likely only facing two enemies at a time. I love Permeating Wrath for PvE and WvW but I never found it too appealing for PvP due to this reason. Weighty Terms would always trigger Stoic Demeanor in close combat. There is no point to it, though, in case you don't intend to ever use up your charges, of course. > @"Dirame.8521" said: > I was also thinking of using Rune of the sunless since it has a shorter cooldown but the fact that shocking aura lasts for 4s and stuns for 1s is too good to pass up. That's true. I also like Rune of the Revenant. :3

> @"Dirame.8521" said: >The idea of the way to play this PVP build has got me tingling all over. I am so excited at how difficult and fun it's going to be to pull off. > The best time I ever had in PvP was back when Interrupt Mesmer was playable. I really can feel the vibe. I've actually been toying around with more CC-heavy builds on my Guardian in open world PvE. Not that it mattered there... but it is a relaxed way of getting a feeling for it. I really love the CC component of Glacial Heard even without Hammer (e.g. Longbow). So don't let yourself be demotivated just because it's probably not going to become meta. =) People are right, though. Stability is a huge issue. It's part of why I stopped playing Interrupt Mesmer. Some thoughts on your build: * Do you really need Quickness from Stalwart Defender? If you had one more Mantra instead of Purging Flames you could go for Weighty Terms for even more soft CC. This would also let you pick a different trait on the Virtues Adept tier. * Do you really need Merciful Ambush? If you stick with Purging Flames and Consecrations, Sanctury could be more interesting because it's another Ward. * Does Permeating Wrath pay off? Since F1 is part of your rotation, it's probably on cooldown most of the time. It might offer some flexibility when facing an opponent with a lot of Stability, but it doesn't really fit your build. * In case you're playing without Valor, maybe Rune of the Flock is an option to get some heals/health back? Not sure wether the proc is the same in PvP as it is in PvE. The wiki doesn't tell.

> @"draxynnic.3719" said: > > @"Xaylin.1860" said: > > The reason we still see baseline Guardians is mostly due to baseline traitline interactions, not due to e-spec trade-offs. > > Which is one of the things I've been facepalming about with the whole 'tradeoff' thing for years now. The core traitline you _could_ have otherwise had is the biggest tradeoff of all. > Well, I partly agree/disagree. Designing Elites to have trade-offs is as valid has having the loss off classic traitlines as trade-offs. However, this requires consistent design (philosophie) and implementation across all classes. And that's what ANet isn't good at, it seems. Still, I think we can agree, that Elite traitlines offer more than just traits (weapons, new skills/mechanics). So from a pure balance standpoint, overall traits would have to be worse or at least have worse interaction with the baseline class if you didn't want to implement any obvious trade-offs. Meaning, true sidegrades, not upgrades. I guess the issue with this approach is, that it's less fun when releasing add ons. Amusingly, with the exception of former Elusive Mind all Mirage traits are and always have been pretty bad. So you would think it could work without a specific trade-off. Joke's on baseline Mesmer. While I still love the theme of Mirage, it's probably the messiest Elite implementation we've got. Not the most boring, mind you. But certainly the worst.

> @"draxynnic.3719" said: > Saying that you're giving up 3 skills for 15 is an overly simplistic analysis because it doesn't take into account how much more of an action economy investment the tomes represent. Sure, there's more options, but there's limits on how well you can USE those options. Dragonhunter virtues are pretty fire-and-forget: you use them like you would a normal skill and then go back to your regular rotation. Core guardian virtues can be activated _while_ performing other actions, which can lead to sneaky tricks like activating F1 as you deliver the killing blow on a mob to get effectively free boons, using F1 or F3 to cover a stomp mid-animation (with appropriate traits), or being able to simply faceroll the virtues before activating Renewed Focus in a pinch. A firebrand using their virtues, on the other hand, is more of a mode shift. They give you more options, to be sure, but they represent a significant interruption of what you'd be doing otherwise. > > While it potentially complicates trait interactions, ANet probably would have done themselves a big favour by designing FB more like DD, meaning 1 GM per Tome, resulting in FB solely having 1 Tome depending on the GM picked. This way, each trait triplet (upper, middle, lower) could focus on more defined roles (F1 = burning and debuffing/soft CC, F2 = healing and cleanse, F3 = defense and boons) with a sprinkle of Quickness through different applications/intensity on each of them. At the same time, base Guardian could have gained a buff to passive effects to distinguish itself from DH (more active) and FB (more specialised). Even though you might be right that not every build can harness their full potential and that there is a cost of opportunity for using Tomes (time, skill access), they're still way more powerful than baseline Virtues. And even though I do believe ANet thought that it would work just as you described, numbers on skills told a different story. Resulting in several nerfes which left each Tome very watered down. However, to pick up an argument for/against Tempest not having a trade-off I agree with: In most situations FB still plays just like Guardian+. To some extent I feel the same way about DH. The reason we still see baseline Guardians is mostly due to baseline traitline interactions, not due to e-spec trade-offs. In contrast to, for example, Necromancer, where you can actually see a trade-off within the class mechanic/gameplay itself. I don't want to make another list with my opinion on wether each e-spec has or has no sufficient trade-off. Some specs certainly don't have proper trade-offs yet while other trade-offs simply don't matter numberswise or are uninspired (e.g. Druid) or simply don't or hardly matter overall (e.g. Tempest). While I'd like proper trade-offs for every spec to be implemented before EoD launches, I feel like balance and gameplaywise we got bigger fish to fry than simply looking for a trade-off like Firebrand mentioned above. Mirage is and always has been a mess mechanically/gameplaywise. Poor Engineer intra class balance overall. And even though I do like Berserker, managing Berserker mode is rocky (no exit, only Utilities to extent duration) because the rework didn't go the whole way - just like it didn't for Chronomancer. And, of course, as always, Pet AI/functionality. That being said, just to clarify: 1 Doge on Mirage is no trade-off. It's game mode specific and simply a bandaid nerf for PvP.

There are quite a few traits I don't really care about. If I had to pick one - excluding 300s CD traits and stat converting ones - I'd probably go for Protected Phantasms. Sure, it does work. But its use is so limited and in the end just covers up design flaws of pet gameplay. Regarding Escape Artist: It could actually be quite fun if we had Prismatic Understanding on the Illusions GM tier. This way we could build for a sturdier stealther build without having to pick Chaos. That being said, Mesmer really needs an overall rework/facelift to its traitlines like pre HoT patch. So many traits have been shuffeled around or nerfed/put on hold that many traitline compositions don't make sense anymore or simply underperform. Maybe we'll get one before EoD... I hope so. Otherwise, if I had to pick one single traitline, I'd probably say Inspiration. Solely due to the reason of it being overcrowded with Utility related traits. Partly reworking and moving those to other traitlines could give Inspiration a better purpose for supportive group play and at the same time open up new builds for other set ups. If I had to pick an overall thing, I'd probably say elite class 'mechanics'. Chronomancer still isn't there but at least somewhat playable after IP got reinstated. However, Mirage is a sad nerfed mess and imho never saw proper gameplay design after leaving the concept board. Shatters have to be incorporated into its mechanic. And Mirage Cloak should never have happened. We already got Distortion. Unique effects make balancing slightly easier but negate any possible synergies with the baseline class. Which makes it just lazy design.