HandsomeGentleman.9576 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Since the very beginning, Guild Wars 2 has been a one of the more inconsistent games I've experienced when it comes to balance. Balance updates are supposed to encourage the following: * Variety of builds and build options * Offer players clear tradeoffs between builds, subclasses, and classes * Move continuously towards balanced gameplay without turning entire classes, weapon sets, etc completely obsolete Instead...balance updates seem to contain what seem like overreactions (a nerf means the class is nerfed many % points instead of a few), lack of understanding of what are major pain points in the PvP and WvW communities, and favoritism towards newer subclasses from whatever the latest expansion at the time was. It frequently feels like every single update is a give and take, a random grab bag of goodies and very painful punishments. We'll see a few really smart balance updates combined with non-sense, hard to defend updates. One example that stands out to me from the beginning is warrior traits. Since day 1, fast hands has never been something that has had any competition as a trait. It's almost impossible to use warrior without using fast hands. Instead of taking a deeper look into what should be an inherent class trait, the balance team has decided to relegate the trait selection to a static choice for years. The updates to thief over the last months/years also don't seem to make sense. There is no rhyme or reason to make a weapon set like power s/d viable before knocking down the class update after update with nerfs to sword damage, class traits, and attack traits. The nerf to pistol/pistol today seemed to come out of nowhere - it isn't an incredibly popular weapon set to begin with, so to even spend time nerfing it confuses me. Deadeye receives more buffs that don't address its viability in play modes but just add more damage and adds to its already very competitive role as a 1v1 and skirmishing class. Nerfs to mirage today were strange as well. For instance, Jaunt is something very few people had complaints about, and it would be great to understand why the additional CD was necessary. Sure, there may be arguments about the strength of mirages in certain situations, but attacking that specific elite is a little mind boggling. Ranger is one of the strongest 1v1 classes and pin sniping classes in the WvW scene at the moment. Worldly Impact is already one of the most damaging single attacks in the game and buffing the skill just seems a little bit strange in terms of buff priorities. I appreciate the attempts and certainly don't think balance is an easy thing to manage...but it would be great to understand some of the process behind the balance decisions, understand how balance is tested, and see more real dialogue with the players that have formed the most loyal core of the "competitive" community. I also know that as players, we don't necessarily have insight into all the internal decisions over at the Anet team. But as a player that wants to continue supporting GW, I want to believe that what I am investing my time and money into will improve in terms of balance and quality of life for the game modes I care about most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 I agree I would love to hear the rationale behind each specific change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 you lost me at inherent class trait. that idea is bonkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HandsomeGentleman.9576 Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > you lost me at inherent class trait. > that idea is bonkers. How is it insane? It forces every single warrior build to pick discipline as a trait line. Sure, there is work to be done if it is made a core feature, but it is absolutely insane to have a whole class that requires one trait line at all times for one specific trait in that line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spurnshadow.3678 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Agree. The jaunt change came totally out of left field. Didn't see any complaints on this. Short range, not overloading confusion, one cleanse, and you do get put on a CD if you spam it. Didn't seem very powerful at all, especially when compared to WoD that does a ton of stuff, all be it on a longer CD. But Wordly Impact was just bonkers. I mean, people have been posting screen shots of this thing hitting for between 30K and 60K due to the way beastmode works and the multiple multipliers you can stack with traits and a utility. And they made it stronger. Just would love to hear the justification for that. Yeah, there have been some crazy nerfs/buffs that seem to make no sense. They usually end up rolling them back, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HandsomeGentleman.9576 Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"Spurnshadow.3678" said: > Agree. > > The jaunt change came totally out of left field. Didn't see any complaints on this. Short range, not overloading confusion, one cleanse, and you do get put on a CD if you spam it. Didn't seem very powerful at all, especially when compared to WoD that does a ton of stuff, all be it on a longer CD. > > But Wordly Impact was just bonkers. I mean, people have been posting screen shots of this thing hitting for between 30K and 60K due to the way beastmode works and the multiple multipliers you can stack with traits and a utility. And they made it stronger. Just would love to hear the justification for that. > > Yeah, there have been some crazy nerfs/buffs that seem to make no sense. They usually end up rolling them back, too. The Worldly Impact is on top of more multiplier buffs when rangers are already capable of dumping insane amounts of burst. Everyone in WvW knows that a small group of rangers is capable of melting any single class, and are perfect for pinsniping already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDchiaScrub.3241 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"HandsomeGentleman.9576" said: > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > you lost me at inherent class trait. > > that idea is bonkers. > > How is it insane? It forces every single warrior build to pick discipline as a trait line. > Sure, there is work to be done if it is made a core feature, but it is absolutely insane to have a whole class that requires one trait line at all times for one specific trait in that line. For the shout heal spellbreaker bubble boy fast hands isn't as necessary. D: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HandsomeGentleman.9576 Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"GDchiaScrub.3241" said: > > @"HandsomeGentleman.9576" said: > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > you lost me at inherent class trait. > > > that idea is bonkers. > > > > How is it insane? It forces every single warrior build to pick discipline as a trait line. > > Sure, there is work to be done if it is made a core feature, but it is absolutely insane to have a whole class that requires one trait line at all times for one specific trait in that line. > > For the shout heal spellbreaker bubble boy fast hands isn't as necessary. > > D: One exception perhaps ;) Also, bubble boys don't count as real warriors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDchiaScrub.3241 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"HandsomeGentleman.9576" said: > > @"GDchiaScrub.3241" said: > > > @"HandsomeGentleman.9576" said: > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > you lost me at inherent class trait. > > > > that idea is bonkers. > > > > > > How is it insane? It forces every single warrior build to pick discipline as a trait line. > > > Sure, there is work to be done if it is made a core feature, but it is absolutely insane to have a whole class that requires one trait line at all times for one specific trait in that line. > > > > For the shout heal spellbreaker bubble boy fast hands isn't as necessary. > > > > D: > > One exception perhaps ;) > > Also, bubble boys don't count as real warriors. To each their own. This thread is in the WvW forums, and checking-a-look at the balance changes it appears ANET did buff shouts to an extent. As per WvW, Blobs use bubble boys. Admittedly less useful for roaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetoII.3782 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 > @"HandsomeGentleman.9576" said: > bubble boys don't count as real warriors. Pfft They're the ONLY ones that matter to the blob. That's part of the problem in these forums, most of the contributors are the squishy filling hiding behind. And worldly impact? Why not buff ranger, most of them off themselves. Obviously underperforming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Its just a slow walk nerf what has ended up with skill split. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuka Cola.8520 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Jaunt was nerfed to decrease the mobility which indirectly nerfs the survivability, which is perfectly fine. Torch nerf is also fine. Blurred Frenzy is a bit much, but acceptable, i can deal. Mirage is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HandsomeGentleman.9576 Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 > @"GDchiaScrub.3241" said: > > @"HandsomeGentleman.9576" said: > > > @"GDchiaScrub.3241" said: > > > > @"HandsomeGentleman.9576" said: > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > > you lost me at inherent class trait. > > > > > that idea is bonkers. > > > > > > > > How is it insane? It forces every single warrior build to pick discipline as a trait line. > > > > Sure, there is work to be done if it is made a core feature, but it is absolutely insane to have a whole class that requires one trait line at all times for one specific trait in that line. > > > > > > For the shout heal spellbreaker bubble boy fast hands isn't as necessary. > > > > > > D: > > > > One exception perhaps ;) > > > > Also, bubble boys don't count as real warriors. > > To each their own. This thread is in the WvW forums, and checking-a-look at the balance changes it appears ANET did buff shouts to an extent. As per WvW, Blobs use bubble boys. Admittedly less useful for roaming. I was kidding, mostly around the syntax of calling them bubble boys. Just doesn't sound that warrior-like, you know? Even so, fast hands has been a must-have for 99% of warrior builds since the inception of the game. Prove me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDchiaScrub.3241 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 > @"HandsomeGentleman.9576" said: > > @"GDchiaScrub.3241" said: > > > @"HandsomeGentleman.9576" said: > > > > @"GDchiaScrub.3241" said: > > > > > @"HandsomeGentleman.9576" said: > > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > > > you lost me at inherent class trait. > > > > > > that idea is bonkers. > > > > > > > > > > How is it insane? It forces every single warrior build to pick discipline as a trait line. > > > > > Sure, there is work to be done if it is made a core feature, but it is absolutely insane to have a whole class that requires one trait line at all times for one specific trait in that line. > > > > > > > > For the shout heal spellbreaker bubble boy fast hands isn't as necessary. > > > > > > > > D: > > > > > > One exception perhaps ;) > > > > > > Also, bubble boys don't count as real warriors. > > > > To each their own. This thread is in the WvW forums, and checking-a-look at the balance changes it appears ANET did buff shouts to an extent. As per WvW, Blobs use bubble boys. Admittedly less useful for roaming. > > I was kidding, mostly around the syntax of calling them bubble boys. Just doesn't sound that warrior-like, you know? > > Even so, fast hands has been a must-have for 99% of **decent** warrior builds since the inception of the game. Prove me wrong. Although now that you mention I don't use fast hands because I have fat fingers. That breaks my immersion. D: P.S. It'd still be nice if ANET included rationale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotejjeken.1267 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Why...does every one of these topics call Ranger OP in one way or another? Pin sniping? For real? Surely someone in your blob carries reflects? Worldly Impact? Try...moving? Can't remember the last time that hit me; do you also get wrecked by Warrior telegraphs? Also 1v1? Strongest? Maybe if you play Necro, Ele or core Engi lol. GLHF with FB, Mirage, and Holo... tldr; Anet needs to get a test server and stop listening to random topics like these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HandsomeGentleman.9576 Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 > @"Gotejjeken.1267" said: > Why...does every one of these topics call Ranger OP in one way or another? > > Pin sniping? For real? Surely someone in your blob carries reflects? > > Worldly Impact? Try...moving? Can't remember the last time that hit me; do you also get wrecked by Warrior telegraphs? > > Also 1v1? Strongest? Maybe if you play Necro, Ele or core Engi lol. GLHF with FB, Mirage, and Holo... > > tldr; Anet needs to get a test server and stop listening to random topics like these. Ugh... 1. Pin Sniping - There are ways for soulbeast to get around reflects. My guild pinsnipes on a regular basis for fun, reflects don't do jack shit if we pop cds correctly. 2. 3/4 tell combined with plenty of cc + stealth for 20k-35k dmg is still insane. 3. Ranger is strong af, go play on a dueling server with holo, fb, or even mirage and tell me soulbeast is an east fight. But yes, you made a good suggestion...have a test server...please...clearly the internal tests are not working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotejjeken.1267 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 I'm pretty familiar with Ranger as I've mained one since pre-launch. Worldly Impact roots the ranger. Your tell? I dunno the giant merge animation, 99% of time with Smokeskale. If they are already merged, just assume they will probably try a CC into it. Basically, it's super basic in terms of combat knowledge If they are hitting 20k they are beyond glass. Just for fun, what would be your suggestion for balancing: - Pin snipe potential - Worldly Impact - 1v1 potential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juno.1840 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Actually saw a 10-man squad of 100% rangers that clouded around a 40 man raid. This wasn't during large fights, but while simply moving around the map. Was annoying af -- regardless of how you feel about the tactics, counter-play etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowHawk.3615 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 What they do is release something that is OP in a good player's hands aside from scourge and mirage (no offense I am a mesmer main but a monkey could be good with it) Then after some time do tiny nerfs here and there to the classes and then eventually a bigger nerf that kinda makes certain classes obsolete to others while the others get to step up in a sense including new builds. New profession is released that is awesome and fun, whereas the older professions are still in the nerf bucket struggling to do something with themselves and the process repeats. People cry for nerfs and then whine when they get them. They (ANET) don't focus on actually fixing anything until years down the road. It took 3 years for Ranger LB skills to get any love and even longer for short bow. anet's inability to balance to help and nerf to hinder have rendered tempest fucking useless since it gives basic bitch ass boons - oh and the boon nerf so it's even more useless, it gives so -so sustain compared to FB and Scrapper who are the best at it. and has no place anywhere due to ppl crying for nerfs- they rendered an elite specialization obsolete. Why can't they just make it so that all specs are playable right now- and not just the shiny new thing! OR just fucking hire someone who knows how to balance and nerf correctly. But we will see down the road for sure. The lava font nerf was undeserving on that scale of dmg reduction. On a full ascended zerk ele with no might you might see 1600 dmg on the skill. The best use it has now is placing it under your ele and using ARCANE BRILLIANCE to stack might for a few seconds since boons were nerfed. The meteor shower dmg is odd since it seems to ignore armor completely. If you miss the first spike then you'll survive the meteor since it becomes meteor sprinkle once again. I can feel an even bigger nerf for weaver inc then anet will release a new expansion with the new elites and they'll be OP and only a small niche of players will play the old elites for fun value and good play style like scrapper and staff d/d. I feel like this nerf has left that feeling of taking of sip of a watered down drink. They pulled a BLESS and overnerfed without fixing actual issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkeyspit.3965 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 > @"HandsomeGentleman.9576" said: > Ugh... > > 1. Pin Sniping - There are ways for soulbeast to get around reflects. My guild pinsnipes on a regular basis for fun, reflects don't do jack kitten if we pop cds correctly. > 2. 3/4 tell combined with plenty of cc + stealth for 20k-35k dmg is still insane. > 3. Ranger is strong af, go play on a dueling server with holo, fb, or even mirage and tell me soulbeast is an east fight. > > But yes, you made a good suggestion...have a test server...please...clearly the internal tests are not working. Please post the build for this Ranger, as I'm very interested. I recognize that skill is a major factor in WvW, so either I'm the worst Ranger to ever play Gw2 (very possible), or I've only played against the best Mesmers in WvW, because my experiences don't correlate with your description. That you are suggesting Mirage is threatened by any other profession in WvW 1v1, least of all by a Ranger, flies in the face of everything I've read in this community, and witnessed in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 The lack of communication over these balancing chose from the anet dev is saying more about anet as an organization then any thing else atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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