Upcoming Renegade rework?

[otto.5684]

> @"narcx.3570" said:

> > @"otto.5684" said:

>

> > Do not even attempt anything else. I play condi herald in sPvP and it is not even viable. Core condi guardian and condi ranger work better and I did not even list them as viable builds. And renegade is a straight down grade over herald.

>

> Condi Herald is just as viable as a lot of those classes that you listed, DH/Scrapper/Reaper/Condi Ranger.

>

> It's probably most similar to DH tho, both are team fighters that have strong point control and are both completely shut down by Scourge/Supp FB. I would argue CondiHerald's actually prolly better than DH at this point tho since you can at least Boonstrip bomb kill targets and have more healing potential when focused.

 

No, condi herald is not on the same of level of DH, scrapper or condi ranger. And Reaper is better than all of them. DH has significantly better sustainability and damage compared to condi herald, and has range as well. The only thing condi herald offers is boon strip.

[Milan.9035]

> @"narcx.3570" said:

> > @"otto.5684" said:

>

> > Do not even attempt anything else. I play condi herald in sPvP and it is not even viable. Core condi guardian and condi ranger work better and I did not even list them as viable builds. And renegade is a straight down grade over herald.

>

> Condi Herald is just as viable as a lot of those classes that you listed, DH/Scrapper/Reaper/Condi Ranger.

>

> It's probably most similar to DH tho, both are team fighters that have strong point control and are both completely shut down by Scourge/Supp FB. I would argue CondiHerald's actually prolly better than DH at this point tho since you can at least Boonstrip bomb kill targets and have more healing potential when focused.

 

funny dude, you really see a condi herald in pvp? like even one? i seen plenty of DH. be serious.

 

renegade is bad i hope someone lost their job when it was shown to the boss.

[narcx.3570]

> @"Milan.9035" said:

> > @"narcx.3570" said:

> > > @"otto.5684" said:

> >

> > > Do not even attempt anything else. I play condi herald in sPvP and it is not even viable. Core condi guardian and condi ranger work better and I did not even list them as viable builds. And renegade is a straight down grade over herald.

> >

> > Condi Herald is just as viable as a lot of those classes that you listed, DH/Scrapper/Reaper/Condi Ranger.

> >

> > It's probably most similar to DH tho, both are team fighters that have strong point control and are both completely shut down by Scourge/Supp FB. I would argue CondiHerald's actually prolly better than DH at this point tho since you can at least Boonstrip bomb kill targets and have more healing potential when focused.

>

> funny dude, you really see a condi herald in pvp? like even one? i seen plenty of DH. be serious.

>

> renegade is bad i hope someone lost their job when it was shown to the boss.

 

Just cuz you see them doesn't mean it's good...

 

Like, ok, what part of PvP is DH good at? Point control? Not if a Scourge is there... 1v1'ing? Not even close. +1'ing? maybe it's middle of the pack strength here with judges.

 

My point is having a DH on your team is just as crappy, if not worse than a condi herald, because every time you have a DH it's somebody who's not playing Supp FB or Core Guard. -.-

 

> @"otto.5684" said:

> No, condi herald is not on the same of level of DH, scrapper or condi ranger. And Reaper is better than all of them.

 

And the same can mostly be said for those classes as well... I'm not saying that C Herald is good, don't get me wrong, but I'm saying that those classes are just as useless in the face of a metacomp. The only thing that they maybe have going for them is that they do power dps, so they can't be completely shut down in a team fight like a condi build can.

 

But when you break it down, none of them are winning a 1v1 vs a Mirage/Druid/Breaker/Holo unless they are just that much of a better player. And none of them are going to out decap a thief/mirage either... So really all they have left is team fighting, and I wouldn't call any of them top tier there--the closest is probably power reaper, cuz it has pretty solid dps. But none of them have the tools to survive the sustain/stripping power of a Scourge/FB anchoring a team fight.

 

And if you want to say that they're viable if you take away the Scourge/FB, that would also be the case for Condi Herald.

[Milan.9035]

Agreed that dh is not better then those you mentioned but for sure i can win as dh vs those. Its never top player vs top player. You can take you average gold hero and put him on dh and he will be much better for the team than a condi herald.

 

I mean i cant believe we are even talking about this.

[otto.5684]

> @"narcx.3570" said:

> > @"Milan.9035" said:

> > > @"narcx.3570" said:

> > > > @"otto.5684" said:

> > >

> > > > Do not even attempt anything else. I play condi herald in sPvP and it is not even viable. Core condi guardian and condi ranger work better and I did not even list them as viable builds. And renegade is a straight down grade over herald.

> > >

> > > Condi Herald is just as viable as a lot of those classes that you listed, DH/Scrapper/Reaper/Condi Ranger.

> > >

> > > It's probably most similar to DH tho, both are team fighters that have strong point control and are both completely shut down by Scourge/Supp FB. I would argue CondiHerald's actually prolly better than DH at this point tho since you can at least Boonstrip bomb kill targets and have more healing potential when focused.

> >

> > funny dude, you really see a condi herald in pvp? like even one? i seen plenty of DH. be serious.

> >

> > renegade is bad i hope someone lost their job when it was shown to the boss.

>

> Just cuz you see them doesn't mean it's good...

>

> Like, ok, what part of PvP is DH good at? Point control? Not if a Scourge is there... 1v1'ing? Not even close. +1'ing? maybe it's middle of the pack strength here with judges.

>

> My point is having a DH on your team is just as crappy, if not worse than a condi herald, because every time you have a DH it's somebody who's not playing Supp FB or Core Guard. -.-

>

> > @"otto.5684" said:

> > No, condi herald is not on the same of level of DH, scrapper or condi ranger. And Reaper is better than all of them.

>

> And the same can mostly be said for those classes as well... I'm not saying that C Herald is good, don't get me wrong, but I'm saying that those classes are just as useless in the face of a metacomp. The only thing that they maybe have going for them is that they do power dps, so they can't be completely shut down in a team fight like a condi build can.

>

> But when you break it down, none of them are winning a 1v1 vs a Mirage/Druid/Breaker/Holo unless they are just that much of a better player. And none of them are going to out decap a thief/mirage either... So really all they have left is team fighting, and I wouldn't call any of them top tier there--the closest is probably power reaper, cuz it has pretty solid dps. But none of them have the tools to survive the sustain/stripping power of a Scourge/FB anchoring a team fight.

>

> And if you want to say that they're viable if you take away the Scourge/FB, that would also be the case for Condi Herald.

 

Without getting too much carried into which build is the sPvP pariah. The point is condi rev (rengade inparticular) sucks. And it went from okay sPvP build, solid owpve and okaish raid/fractals, to now being a decent raid build and nothing else.

 

Something needs to change.

[Buran.3796]

> @"otto.5684" said:

 

> There is no elite and weapon in the game that require rework more than renegade. It is hands down the worst elite in the game.

>

 

I agree about that is the worst spec and weapon in the game, but I don't think it needs any rework. Just ignore it (as Guardians do with spirit weapons), and you'll be happier. For me PoF added mounts and new maps, which for ~30€ seemed a decent trade. The sooner they release a new one to move on, the better.

[vyncius.6105]

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> > @"otto.5684" said:

>

> > There is no elite and weapon in the game that require rework more than renegade. It is hands down the worst elite in the game.

> >

>

> I agree about that is the worst spec and weapon in the game, but I don't think it needs any rework. Just ignore it (as Guardians do with spirit weapons), and you'll be happier. For me PoF added mounts and new maps, which for ~30€ seemed a decent trade. The sooner they release a new one to move on, the better.

 

What are you saying. Its imposible to ignore awfuly designed weapon. Rework is very needed, both on utility's and shortbow. Its not like revenants can choose from vast variaty of weapons, for condi's all is left then are mace and axe.

As someone mentioned before, Rev has only 1 viable build for pve and 1 for pvp, i hope Power Rev can become a viable thing for competetive pve, that would be nice. But also many rev players want to see another viable Rev build for pvp (condi, support, i don't care which one). Maybe giving 4th utility for each legend could make a huge difference and Renegade rework wouldn't be needed.

[Alchimist.4738]

> @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> Power revs needs love before Renegades. We didnt get much in last patch and you Renegades are still pulling ahead.

 

Power is now [viable in end game PvE contents](https://snowcrows.com/raids/revenant/herald/power/ "viable in end game PvE contents") (thanks to the last patch), admittedly not optimal but unless you're in a hardcore guild you shouldn't care about that, and it's a great build in sPvP (only performs badly in few situations because Mirage is busted), also Hammer Herald is still very strong in WvW. While Renegade has major design flaws.

[Street Peddler.2638]

> @"Dragoth.7153" said:

> > @"vyncius.6105" said:

> > > @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > > Power revs needs love before Renegades. We didnt get much in last patch and you Renegades are still pulling ahead.

> >

> > Well, yeah, Renegade is meta in PVE, but i am talking about Spvp and WvW, renegade doesn't exist here

>

> Not every class is meant to be PvP focused. Renegade is great in every aspect of PvE and Herald see many in our weekly raid clears.

 

renegade isnt just bad in pvp, its useless. it serves no purpose in any arena. no dev can possibly look at that situation and think its ok.

[narcx.3570]

> @"Street Peddler.2638" said:

> > @"Dragoth.7153" said:

> > > @"vyncius.6105" said:

> > > > @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > > > Power revs needs love before Renegades. We didnt get much in last patch and you Renegades are still pulling ahead.

> > >

> > > Well, yeah, Renegade is meta in PVE, but i am talking about Spvp and WvW, renegade doesn't exist here

> >

> > Not every class is meant to be PvP focused. Renegade is great in every aspect of PvE and Herald see many in our weekly raid clears.

>

> renegade isnt just bad in pvp, its useless. it serves no purpose in any arena. no dev can possibly look at that situation and think its ok.

 

It's the top DPS spec in Raids at the moment vs Large Hitbox... And that's going to be by a much bigger margin come Tuesday when they nerf/"fix" meteor shower... jussayin.

[otto.5684]

> @"narcx.3570" said:

> > @"Street Peddler.2638" said:

> > > @"Dragoth.7153" said:

> > > > @"vyncius.6105" said:

> > > > > @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > > > > Power revs needs love before Renegades. We didnt get much in last patch and you Renegades are still pulling ahead.

> > > >

> > > > Well, yeah, Renegade is meta in PVE, but i am talking about Spvp and WvW, renegade doesn't exist here

> > >

> > > Not every class is meant to be PvP focused. Renegade is great in every aspect of PvE and Herald see many in our weekly raid clears.

> >

> > renegade isnt just bad in pvp, its useless. it serves no purpose in any arena. no dev can possibly look at that situation and think its ok.

>

> It's the top DPS spec in Raids at the moment vs Large Hitbox... And that's going to be by a much bigger margin come Tuesday when they nerf/"fix" meteor shower... jussayin.

 

If it is only good in raids against large hit boxes then it is not remotely good...

[Street Peddler.2638]

> @"narcx.3570" said:

> > @"Street Peddler.2638" said:

> > > @"Dragoth.7153" said:

> > > > @"vyncius.6105" said:

> > > > > @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > > > > Power revs needs love before Renegades. We didnt get much in last patch and you Renegades are still pulling ahead.

> > > >

> > > > Well, yeah, Renegade is meta in PVE, but i am talking about Spvp and WvW, renegade doesn't exist here

> > >

> > > Not every class is meant to be PvP focused. Renegade is great in every aspect of PvE and Herald see many in our weekly raid clears.

> >

> > renegade isnt just bad in pvp, its useless. it serves no purpose in any arena. no dev can possibly look at that situation and think its ok.

>

> It's the top DPS spec in Raids at the moment vs Large Hitbox... And that's going to be by a much bigger margin come Tuesday when they nerf/"fix" meteor shower... jussayin.

 

i know that the wonky renegade mechanics are erased when everyone is just standing together fighting a wall, but i dont think that puts a spec in a good place.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

> @"Gihn.1043" said:

> Raid revenant: support ventari kalla ONLY.

This is factually incorrect. Support Ventari Kalla builds are niche/off meta classes that are generally not seen. What IS seen however is Mallyx/Kalla DPS condi. And now after the last patch Herald and Renegade both have solid 32-33k power options (Shiro/Jalis). Revenant's raid diversity (when counting both meta and off meta picks) is actually rather high. Pretty much all the legends have their uses in raids at this point, with Glint & Ventari falling a bit behind the rest unless Hands Kiting on Deimos or playing a variation of Heal Herald/Renegade.

[Reverielle.3972]

It does need a lot of love. It's actually astonishing just how unbalanced (and simply broken/bugged) it is compared to the other professions.

 

[Carighan.6758]

> @"vyncius.6105" said:

> Do you think Anet is going to rework or do some really big changes to Renegade in next Balance patch? Because atleast for me, it looks like it.

> Personally i would love to see Shortbow to get reworked, some utility's to get buffed so i it could be viable in SPVP and WvW/

 

Don't think so. I mean, I hope I'm wrong, but look at their glacial rebalance/rework speed over the years, and look how long it took to get out the two "major" reworks we had so far, Phantasms and Reaper Shroud. And honestly, those were tiny, hence the quotes.

 

Plus, Revenant - like most classes - needs **core** changes. Deep, underlying reworks of often class-spanning mechanics which result in issues in class design leading to a host of individual issues. For Revenant in particular, *item stats* need a serious rework, specifically it'd be beneficial if they were **not there**.

[InsaneQR.7412]

I hate all rev e-specs.

Not fue to legend choices but just due to the lack of any interaction with the class mechanic.

F2 on herald accounts as glint skill and does not provide any interaction with the core legends and f2-4 of renegade just behaves the same.

It restricts skill diversity even more if we cant customise the class mechanic via legend.

 

Would be great if they would take a look at that and designed more interaction into the specs.