Odik.4587 Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > And now, a Haiku. > > >Engaging enemy > >Retaliation killed me > >Boon rip is too hard This forum and people like you and that individual that suggest to use frenzy in same time with distortion (that claimed before that blocks protect from UNBLOCKABLE attacks ...). None of you are even thinking before post anything Engi ? Boon rip ? You implying everyone have boonrip . Whatever actually ,not worth anyone time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Boy.7138 Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 > @"Odik.4587" said: > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > And now, a Haiku. > > > > >Engaging enemy > > >Retaliation killed me > > >Boon rip is too hard > This forum and people like you and that individual that suggest to use frenzy in same time with distortion (that claimed before that blocks protect from UNBLOCKABLE attacks ...). None of you are even thinking before post anything > Engi ? Boon rip ? You implying everyone have boonrip . > Whatever actually ,not worth anyone time In addition, I think most people are purposely ignoring the issue in the initial post. The issue is the HIGH UPTIME of retaliation. Boon rip is pointless when it is so easy to reapply the boon. As someone mentioned earlier, boon spam has become an issue altogether. However, I believe retaliation is something that should be considered sooner than later because it is an extremely passive way to rack up huge damage on an opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airdive.2613 Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 > @"Odik.4587" said: > This forum and people like you and that individual that suggest to use frenzy in same time with distortion Meanwhile you call an ability with 8 hits applied to 3 targets a *defensive* ability while your pride makes you die rather than use the survival tools provided to you. > (that claimed before that blocks protect from UNBLOCKABLE attacks ...). Excuse you, "projectile destruction" skills actually did destroy unblockable attacks until they were fixed one after another. Newer players won't remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Boy.7138 Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 With the recent nerfs to blurred frenzy with both damage and time of execution, you are removing half of your own health pool in only 1 second, and dealing just a fraction of the damage you receive, to the target. But blurred frenzy isn't the only skill that suffers. As someone mentioned earlier, skills that hit in a series will hurt a lot. But that's not all, because the uptime is so high, even if you do not use those kinds of skills, even skills that hit normally, in a long fight, the damage received will add up, all from very passive gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airdive.2613 Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 > @"Hot Boy.7138" said: > The issue is the HIGH UPTIME of retaliation. Boon rip is pointless when it is so easy to reapply the boon. It's not much of an issue. Guardians can be specifically built to gain retaliation because it can benefit them greatly, but it is a specific build which, again, applies retaliation via activating specific skills, which isn't exactly passive. It isn't pointless to rip retaliation either, because you force said guardian to use another skill/virtue to reapply retaliation, forcing them out of their optimal rotation. You also get retaliation when hit while under the effect of light aura, so probably don't hit the enemy when you see the aura? Other than that, I don't remember anybody having THAT HIGH retaliation uptime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > This forum and people like you and that individual that suggest to use frenzy in same time with distortion > > Meanwhile you call an ability with 8 hits applied to 3 targets a *defensive* ability while your pride makes you die rather than use the survival tools provided to you. > > > (that claimed before that blocks protect from UNBLOCKABLE attacks ...). > > Excuse you, "projectile destruction" skills actually did destroy unblockable attacks until they were fixed one after another. Newer players won't remember that. I wasnt playing for 1y since they release ,newer player for sure. From everything you post here , you are new here and you dont even realize how ridiculous you are . Amount of bs coming from you is insane and beyond measure . Cba to explain for bronze players why their argument is garbage Ask Master Ketsu.4569 to enlighten you more about game and re-read his post, would make you a tiny bit smarter (if you understand soemthing ofc XD) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airdive.2613 Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 > @"Odik.4587" said: > Ask Master Ketsu.4569 to enlighten you more about game and re-read his post, would make you a tiny bit smarter (if you understand soemthing ofc XD) Uhhm, okay? "Retaliation isn't even remotely close to one of the big balance issues of GW2 right now." Is there some hidden truth to understand there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > Ask Master Ketsu.4569 to enlighten you more about game and re-read his post, would make you a tiny bit smarter (if you understand soemthing ofc XD) > > Uhhm, okay? > "Retaliation isn't even remotely close to one of the big balance issues of GW2 right now." > Is there some hidden truth to understand there? It’s only an issue to players that spam all their skills and don’t play appropriately around their opponents, it’s where situational awareness and player skill comes in handy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siopao.7436 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Wish someone would put the self-sabotage bike meme on here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 I play a couple of core gurdian variants and all of them maintain 100% uptime on retaliation. The heal alone gives 50% uptime with virtues line. I do not think it is a big deal (unless you are playing p/p thief). If they nerf it is damage by 50% it won’t make a difference, since it is purpose for gurdian has nothing to do with damage return. It is used because the entire radiance line damage modifiers are tied to retaliation. Though I agree that it is a terrible design concept. And btw, retailiation damage is around 270 per tick from gurdian using Valkyrie gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darknicrofia.2604 Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > how about this > > >  > > > > > > > Isn't there enough time in-between these 42 hits to realize you're killing yourself and disengage to heal? > > well base hp 15k so i did heal about to 100% no use You do realize retaliation is doing only slightly over 1.7% of your health per hit right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Boy.7138 Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 > @"Darknicrofia.2604" said: > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > how about this > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > Isn't there enough time in-between these 42 hits to realize you're killing yourself and disengage to heal? > > > > well base hp 15k so i did heal about to 100% no use > > You do realize retaliation is doing only slightly over 1.7% of your health per hit right? you didn't read the initial post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darknicrofia.2604 Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 You also have no idea how retal is used if you think guardians are using it as a passive "hit me" boon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Boy.7138 Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 > @"Darknicrofia.2604" said: > You also have no idea how retal is used if you think guardians are using it as a passive "hit me" boon. So are you saying my combat logs have been lying to me all this time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 > @"Darknicrofia.2604" said: > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > how about this > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > Isn't there enough time in-between these 42 hits to realize you're killing yourself and disengage to heal? > > > > well base hp 15k so i did heal about to 100% no use > > You do realize retaliation is doing only slightly over 1.7% of your health per hit right? So mesmer and engi have equal health pools . While mesmer does BF on 3 people , he would hit himself for 40.8% hp ? 'Do you realize how stupid it is,right?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airdive.2613 Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 > @"Odik.4587" said: > > @"Darknicrofia.2604" said: > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > how about this > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't there enough time in-between these 42 hits to realize you're killing yourself and disengage to heal? > > > > > > well base hp 15k so i did heal about to 100% no use > > > > You do realize retaliation is doing only slightly over 1.7% of your health per hit right? > > So mesmer and engi have equal health pools . While mesmer does BF on 3 people , he would hit himself for 40.8% hp ? 'Do you realize how stupid it is,right?' In fact, so stupid you might want to *think* about your actions (gasp) and don't do stupid things or, as I said, pop distortion to get 0 damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Boy.7138 Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > @"Darknicrofia.2604" said: > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > how about this > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't there enough time in-between these 42 hits to realize you're killing yourself and disengage to heal? > > > > > > > > well base hp 15k so i did heal about to 100% no use > > > > > > You do realize retaliation is doing only slightly over 1.7% of your health per hit right? > > > > So mesmer and engi have equal health pools . While mesmer does BF on 3 people , he would hit himself for 40.8% hp ? 'Do you realize how stupid it is,right?' > > In fact, so stupid you might want to *think* about your actions (gasp) and don't do stupid things or, as I said, pop distortion to get 0 damage. You missed the part about some classes/builds are able to maintain it 100% of the time, which is my original point and topic of the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airdive.2613 Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 > @"Hot Boy.7138" said: > > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > @"Darknicrofia.2604" said: > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > @"Airdive.2613" said: > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said: > > > > > > > how about this > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't there enough time in-between these 42 hits to realize you're killing yourself and disengage to heal? > > > > > > > > > > well base hp 15k so i did heal about to 100% no use > > > > > > > > You do realize retaliation is doing only slightly over 1.7% of your health per hit right? > > > > > > So mesmer and engi have equal health pools . While mesmer does BF on 3 people , he would hit himself for 40.8% hp ? 'Do you realize how stupid it is,right?' > > > > In fact, so stupid you might want to *think* about your actions (gasp) and don't do stupid things or, as I said, pop distortion to get 0 damage. > > You missed the part about some classes/builds are able to maintain it 100% of the time, which is my original point and topic of the thread. And you missed a couple of posts telling you that it's only viable for guardians and only because they have *higher critical hit chance* while under the effect of retaliation. Every source of it is an active ability and each one counts, so you do force radiant guardians out of their optimal rotation when you strip their boons. It's not pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yannir.4132 Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 > @"Hot Boy.7138" said: > > @"Darknicrofia.2604" said: > > You also have no idea how retal is used if you think guardians are using it as a passive "hit me" boon. > > So are you saying my combat logs have been lying to me all this time? That's not Darknicrofia's point. Retaliation increases Guardians Critical hit chance by 50%, increases damage by 10% and Ferocity by +300, and it gives Might every second, and that's why we invest into having as much of it as possible. What's problematic is not its uptime, but maybe the sharing of it. Maybe the retal should only be on the Guardian, and not all of his allies as well. The problem with nerfing the uptime of retal on Guardian is that it would make the core class useless again. If you care about balance and build diversity, you don't want that. And you can't nerf retal itself because that would just hit everyone else as well. Including mesmer. Don't get me started on that. But frankly tbh, I don't even think this is a problem at all. This is the kind of passive that is okay IMO, otherwise what's the point of having any Boons in the first place? That kind of thinking will just lead you down an endless rabbithole where the results don't please anyone anymore. It's your own fault if you use multihit abilities while it's active and present. Adjust your way of approaching fights and move on with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etheri.5406 Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 Balance needs to be done for the high end of the spectrum, where balance is ruled by play and counterplay and both sides understand more or less how to react appropriately. You can never balance based on the annoyances of the low-end spectrum. If you do you get threads like these. The game has some very serious issues with boonspam, but retal isn't exactly the worst offender... Or even relevant compared to some other issues. The game has some very serious issues with boonspam; but retal is the least of your worries. Imma give a tip : if you struggle with retal and you're losing a slow war of attrition in PvP; you should either get a +1 or rotate out. Why would you die to 50 hits of retal and generally low damage? Better rotate out than die because you couldn't stop pressing 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Boy.7138 Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 > @"Yannir.4132" said: > > @"Hot Boy.7138" said: > > > @"Darknicrofia.2604" said: > > > You also have no idea how retal is used if you think guardians are using it as a passive "hit me" boon. > > > > So are you saying my combat logs have been lying to me all this time? > > That's not Darknicrofia's point. Retaliation increases Guardians Critical hit chance by 50%, increases damage by 10% and Ferocity by +300, and it gives Might every second, and that's why we invest into having as much of it as possible. What's problematic is not its uptime, but maybe the sharing of it. Maybe the retal should only be on the Guardian, and not all of his allies as well. The problem with nerfing the uptime of retal on Guardian is that it would make the core class useless again. If you care about balance and build diversity, you don't want that. And you can't nerf retal itself because that would just hit everyone else as well. Including mesmer. Don't get me started on that. > > But frankly tbh, I don't even think this is a problem at all. This is the kind of passive that is okay IMO, otherwise what's the point of having any Boons in the first place? That kind of thinking will just lead you down an endless rabbithole where the results don't please anyone anymore. It's your own fault if you use multihit abilities while it's active and present. Adjust your way of approaching fights and move on with it. Alright. If retaliation isn't an important source of damage for guardians, and it only exists to buff their personal stats, then there's no problem with slapping a 1sec internal cooldown on it. Should be a win-win for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etheri.5406 Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 > @"Hot Boy.7138" said: > > @"Yannir.4132" said: > > > @"Hot Boy.7138" said: > > > > @"Darknicrofia.2604" said: > > > > You also have no idea how retal is used if you think guardians are using it as a passive "hit me" boon. > > > > > > So are you saying my combat logs have been lying to me all this time? > > > > That's not Darknicrofia's point. Retaliation increases Guardians Critical hit chance by 50%, increases damage by 10% and Ferocity by +300, and it gives Might every second, and that's why we invest into having as much of it as possible. What's problematic is not its uptime, but maybe the sharing of it. Maybe the retal should only be on the Guardian, and not all of his allies as well. The problem with nerfing the uptime of retal on Guardian is that it would make the core class useless again. If you care about balance and build diversity, you don't want that. And you can't nerf retal itself because that would just hit everyone else as well. Including mesmer. Don't get me started on that. > > > > But frankly tbh, I don't even think this is a problem at all. This is the kind of passive that is okay IMO, otherwise what's the point of having any Boons in the first place? That kind of thinking will just lead you down an endless rabbithole where the results don't please anyone anymore. It's your own fault if you use multihit abilities while it's active and present. Adjust your way of approaching fights and move on with it. > > Alright. If retaliation isn't an important source of damage for guardians, and it only exists to buff their personal stats, then there's no problem with slapping a 1sec internal cooldown on it. Should be a win-win for everyone. I play harrier firebrand. The build revolves around having 100% retal uptime and baiting other players into hitting you! This is super easy, because you have 90% boon duration, so retal is always up. Making them hit you is super easy too, you have 11.7k hp so they hit you once and then you're low. Then they think they should hit you more to kill you! But they forget i'm a firebrand - I can heal up that hp very easily because haha who plays 12k hp, and they're all getting jebaited by the slick retal damage. Just go harrier fb, walk straight onto mid node; then kite around until they magically all die. Works like a charm. Easy top 10. Please don't nerf :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yannir.4132 Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 > @"Hot Boy.7138" said: > > @"Yannir.4132" said: > > > @"Hot Boy.7138" said: > > > > @"Darknicrofia.2604" said: > > > > You also have no idea how retal is used if you think guardians are using it as a passive "hit me" boon. > > > > > > So are you saying my combat logs have been lying to me all this time? > > > > That's not Darknicrofia's point. Retaliation increases Guardians Critical hit chance by 50%, increases damage by 10% and Ferocity by +300, and it gives Might every second, and that's why we invest into having as much of it as possible. What's problematic is not its uptime, but maybe the sharing of it. Maybe the retal should only be on the Guardian, and not all of his allies as well. The problem with nerfing the uptime of retal on Guardian is that it would make the core class useless again. If you care about balance and build diversity, you don't want that. And you can't nerf retal itself because that would just hit everyone else as well. Including mesmer. Don't get me started on that. > > > > But frankly tbh, I don't even think this is a problem at all. This is the kind of passive that is okay IMO, otherwise what's the point of having any Boons in the first place? That kind of thinking will just lead you down an endless rabbithole where the results don't please anyone anymore. It's your own fault if you use multihit abilities while it's active and present. Adjust your way of approaching fights and move on with it. > > Alright. If retaliation isn't an important source of damage for guardians, and it only exists to buff their personal stats, then there's no problem with slapping a 1sec internal cooldown on it. Should be a win-win for everyone. I rather don't care. My opponents are usually down before they even have a chance to hit me back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darknicrofia.2604 Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 > @"Hot Boy.7138" said: > > @"Darknicrofia.2604" said: > > You also have no idea how retal is used if you think guardians are using it as a passive "hit me" boon. > > So are you saying my combat logs have been lying to me all this time? Guardians have to pop all 3 of their class mechanics and spam their heal skill on cooldown offensively to maintain retal because its required to do 80% of the damage in the build, that's about as "active" as a boon as you can possibly get. The fact that you don't understand that proves my point exactly: You have no idea how its even being used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kako.1930 Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 > @"Etheri.5406" said: > > @"Hot Boy.7138" said: > > > @"Yannir.4132" said: > > > > @"Hot Boy.7138" said: > > > > > @"Darknicrofia.2604" said: > > > > > You also have no idea how retal is used if you think guardians are using it as a passive "hit me" boon. > > > > > > > > So are you saying my combat logs have been lying to me all this time? > > > > > > That's not Darknicrofia's point. Retaliation increases Guardians Critical hit chance by 50%, increases damage by 10% and Ferocity by +300, and it gives Might every second, and that's why we invest into having as much of it as possible. What's problematic is not its uptime, but maybe the sharing of it. Maybe the retal should only be on the Guardian, and not all of his allies as well. The problem with nerfing the uptime of retal on Guardian is that it would make the core class useless again. If you care about balance and build diversity, you don't want that. And you can't nerf retal itself because that would just hit everyone else as well. Including mesmer. Don't get me started on that. > > > > > > But frankly tbh, I don't even think this is a problem at all. This is the kind of passive that is okay IMO, otherwise what's the point of having any Boons in the first place? That kind of thinking will just lead you down an endless rabbithole where the results don't please anyone anymore. It's your own fault if you use multihit abilities while it's active and present. Adjust your way of approaching fights and move on with it. > > > > Alright. If retaliation isn't an important source of damage for guardians, and it only exists to buff their personal stats, then there's no problem with slapping a 1sec internal cooldown on it. Should be a win-win for everyone. > > I play harrier firebrand. The build revolves around having 100% retal uptime and baiting other players into hitting you! This is super easy, because you have 90% boon duration, so retal is always up. Making them hit you is super easy too, you have 11.7k hp so they hit you once and then you're low. Then they think they should hit you more to kill you! > > But they forget i'm a firebrand - I can heal up that hp very easily because haha who plays 12k hp, and they're all getting jebaited by the slick retal damage. > > Just go harrier fb, walk straight onto mid node; then kite around until they magically all die. Works like a charm. Easy top 10. > > Please don't nerf :( I've been playing the regular core build but this sounds fun too. I might have to give it a try when I get home. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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