Do you like the scrapper Spec mechanic?

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

I like the function gyro and I really enjoy using it whenever I can. Sometimes I would appreciate a small cooldown though. It can be used in different ways and allows me to do a few very cool tricks, which other classes mostly cannot do. But I do not have to sacrifice any (utility)-skill for that. In addition, I am very happy for the synergy-effect with Final Salvo. Considering how much the developers "love" the engineer and the scrapper in particular, it feels like a miracle.

 

Here are a few of the things I use the function gyro for:

- resurrecting people while fighting/buffing somewhere else

- speed resurrecting people with the gyro and doing so directly

- keeping people alive when they are traped inside a pulsing aoe

- keeping people alive/resurrectin them when they are downed in an acidpool/lavapit, which is mostly impossible for any other class

- reviving corpses. This is something I've mentioned a few times so far, but never really explained. It is not that hard to execute and can save you a little trouble. If you have an ally around who is about to die and you realize resurrection with the gyro won't do the trick and he will die anyway, just wait until his HP is almost depleted. Send the function-gyro right before he is dead, so it starts moving towards the target while it is still alive. It should arrive at a dead corpse, but will execute the resurrection process one way the other. Due to the gyros lifetime/fuel, it can never revive a player completely. But it does a great job and saves you a lot of time. In my cases, I usually have most of my skills on cooldown (heal inclusive) when I have to pull this move. While the gyro starts resurrecting, I can still move around, recover some health myself and wait for my skills to be ready again. Then I can assist/continue reviving and the player is up in no time. A big advantage of this method, bosses usually do not camp a corpse. So there is a very low chance, the gyro gets destroyed.

- finishing of mobs with a downed-state

- finishing off player in downed state. I usually try to finish them on my own first and wait to be interrupted. Then I run away and let the gyro have some fun. Due to its size, other players often ignore it. If I do it in reverse, there is a higher chance I get interrupted by another player on the 2nd try.

 

The function gyro is a little weird, I totally understand everyone who has issues with it and actually asks for a real class mechanic. But on the other hand, those players either stick to vanilla or hollow builds. It took me a while to get used to the function gyro. But today I feel almost a little naked when I do not have it around. The only thing I would really appreciate, would be some sort of more visible cooldown for it. Like a on screen signal, a special sound effect or a cooldown-icon near the F-keys. I end up pressing F a lot, because there is not a good indicator for this. I know there is this special icon on my buff-bar. But it is not very flashy and I rarely notice it anyway.

[Onza.7165]

While I really like the Scrapper hammer and some of the gyro's, I do find the function gyro to be a very underwhelming profession mechanic.

 

I would like to see the scrapper gain more team-based defence utility to replace the function gyro.

[aceofbass.2163]

> @"Ardid.7203" said:

> IMO, the MINIMUM it needs to be worth the effort:

> * To be able to help rez yourself if you are downed.

> * To offer some kind of group buff, bonus or defense while not in use.

> * To be shinier, cooler, more visible and interesting to look at. Let people know there is a Scrapper helping, killing or just passing by them.

 

This is such an amazing comment. Make it like a ranger pet where it can help you self ress or have buffs when not in use, even if a very minor one.

 

 

[Arimas.3492]

Maybe with function gyro could do what it does now, but on top of that we lose the F5 tool belt and it gets replaced with an upkeep skill. We get a small resource meter too that recharges when not in use so it can't be used forever, which could make it an ability worthy of being a mechanic.

 

Buff could be anything like a shield or an AoE barrier stacking ability etc. Maybe even make a couple of abilities and be able to choose between them so it could work for all modes.

[Zex Anthon.8673]

I would rework it. Hammer and gyros fit the engineer play style well (plenty of tools and finishers), it would be nice if its mechanic could synergize with them more.

 

I would suggest removing the F5 toolbelt skill and replacing it with a "kit" similar to photon forge. The kit could be a remote control that would allow you to control your function gyro and tell it to perform certain tasks. Here are a few things I think would go well in the kit:

 

* The auto attack could launch missiles from your function gyro at target unit, or target location. Hammer is such a good weapon on scrapper, but sometimes having ranged attacks is necessary especially in PvP and WvW. Adding this ability to the F5 skill means scrapper wouldn't need to sacrifice gyros to gain access to ranged attacks.

* Defensive abilities could teleport the function gyro to your location, where it deploys barrier, shields, condition cleanse, or healing and boons. They could also be ground target to provide support to allies from range.

* Offensive abilities could be used to position the gyro and have it perform finishers, or drop combo fields. Scrapper lacks blast finishers which are pretty important for team support, I would include at least one ability that can cause your function gyro to blast.

* Some of these skills could even interact with the utility gyros the scrapper already has deployed. Perhaps the effects of the abilities in this kit could be amplified as you summon more gyros.

[Kiroshima.8497]

Personally, I feel like scrapper's mechanic should have been more like Adrenaline on warrior. To me it's like they scrounged up the materials of the crashed Pact fleet in order to survive the jungle, and using function gyro should really be impactful.

 

Thus the mechanic change would be "building scrap/metal/materials." Striking enemies with the hammer skills would grant you metal, shooting enemies with pistol abilities would make the target drop metal on the ground to pick up.

 

First off, like warrior, the scrapper has 3 bars of Metal that starts off empty. As mentioned before, attack enemies to make them drop metal (hammer gives it straight into your bar).

 

Second, Function Gyro is now F5 instead of attached to "F". It has no cooldown, and simply uses as many bars as possible (3 max). It will persist on the target, lasting for 5 seconds per bar spent. If the target is an enemy, it will attempt to stomp them if they go down. If it is an ally, it will start rezzing them if they go down. If either instance triggers, it will be used up on success or failure, but it untargetable until it attempts either action. Acts as an Unblockable, 0 damage projectile with 1200 range, but cannot be obstructed.

 

You are allowed to have more than 1 Function Gyro out, but you have to manage the metal cost and duration.

 

NEW UTILITY MECHANICS

All gyros have a cooldown, but you can also use them on cooldown by spending metal equal to their remaining Cooldown.

Blast Gyro shoots a blast gyro at EVERY enemy function gyro, but enemies can only be hit by 1 cast of the skill (not huge burst allowed).

Bulwark Gyro makes the function gyro grant barrier to allies around the target, instead of absorbing damage. It works when stuck to enemies too, so you can support from range with P/Sh, Rifle, or P/P.

Shredder Gyro whirls around each function gyro, BUT DOES NOT damage the person the gyro is on. You must position yourself or your allies if you only have 1 enemy. Like blast gyro, enemies cannot be damaged by more than 1 instance.

Medic Gyro will heal any ally with a function gyro, but also still heals in a radius around the engineer. With good positioning this can heal allies nicely. Also applies 2 stacks of weakness to enemies' with a function gyro.

Purge Gyro will cleanse any ally with a function gyro, but also cleanses in an AoE around the engineer.

Stealth Gyro does what it does now but for the targets as well (only an aoe around the engineer). Reveals enemies who have function gyro.

 

BONUS

Turrets drop metal when destroyed. Turrets may use their overload skill again if you slap them with Pry Bar (Toolkit 3) and spend 1 bar of metal. PUT DISPENSER HERE. Whacking them with the toolkit chain grants them a copy of all the boons you have (with a 1 second duration) and spends half a bar of metal (no metal, doesn't apply boons). Healing remains the same.

Gadgets may also be enhanced with metal, granting their traited effect without using the trait at the cost of 1 bar of metal. If the Gadget trait is taken, you will not spend metal to use gadgets.

 

TRAITS:

Would need an overhaul, however we can preserve the intent of the existing ones.

 

~Adept~

Shocking Speed is somewhat redundant with Final Salvo, instead grants Lesser Lightning Aura to self on leap, and AoE Lesser Lightning Aura on blast. Lesser Lightning Aura only dazes, rather than a hard stun. Could use renaming.

Perfectly Weighted: Hammer skills generate more metal when you have stability. Gain stability on Evade with hammer. ~~SHOVEL ~~ HAMMER KNIGHT

Recovery Matrix: Applying barrier to allies restores small amounts of metal. Get a refund for supporting your team!

 

~Master~

Decisive Renown: No longer applies on finish/rez. Applies when targets with Function Gyro go Down instead.

Rapid Regen: All allies with F Gyro on them heal while you have Superspeed. This always works on yourself of course. Healing Supportive gyro trait.

Expert Examination: Enemies struck by you while they have a Function Gyro on them are inflicted with vulnerability and weakness (shorter, less stacks). **BONUS** Enemies with a function gyro attached to them cannot evade nor block Reveal skills. (you have to dodge the gyro)

Mass Momentum: Allies with a function gyro gain might and barrier while you have stability. Obviously works on yourself. Aggressive Support gyro trait.

 

Grandmaster:

Impact Savant: Reverted to old trait. CCing foes also makes them drop metal. Refund those blast gyros!

Adaptive Armor: Spending metal grants barrier to targets with F Gyro (also you). You (only you) gain 20% condition damage reduction while you have barrier. You wanted scrapper to be a support barrier class? You take this.

Final Salvo: Recasting gyros costs 20% less metal (similar to burst mastery on warrior). Function Gyros create a lightning field when they expire, granting superspeed. Allies affected by a gyro ability gain stability.

Applied Force: Spending Metal grants quickness to allies with a function gyro if you have 10 or more might. 10 second cooldown.

 

It'll never happen, but this would be pretty damn fun to me.

[Dadnir.5038]

I'm not sure the fonction gyro is worth being called an e-spec mechanism, I'm not even sure to understand why there is a cool down on this thing.

[Tehologist.5841]

The more I use it the more I like it. I just wish the cool down was visible and it was more consistent to be able to trigger it.

[coro.3176]

It's becoming less useful in PvP these days, as there's a lot of AoE spam going around. It almost always dies or is cc'd before it even starts finishing/reviving. Ironically, it's the other engi elite spec that causes the most problems. Holo cleaves right through it or cc's it with shockwave even if they're on the other side of the point from the downed player you're trying to res/stomp.

 

The only place I find it truly useful is roaming in WvW against groups of 1-3 players - occasionally up to 10 players if they're not paying attention.

[redwing.9580]

imo, scrapper doesn't have a spec mechanic, while function gyro gives you improved stomping/reviving abilities, pretty much any one can stomp/revive. can tempest dual attune, no. can spell breaker use the berserker mechanic, no. etc. not just core engi can do what the scrappers "mechanic" does but any other class can, some even better than scrapper

[Shroud.2307]

As a Scrapper main, WvW vet and mostly solo player, I love it. That said, it's usage is niche for players like myself. I would be fine with having it reworked to do something more, but I wouldn't want the revive/stomp function removed. More than anything, I want it's health + toughness increased, give it the ability to receive boons from outside sources (eg. throwing Toss Elixir B at it) and for the love of GOD fix the bug where your character will enter the stomping animation even if you're a mile away from your target when you activate the Gyro. Drives me absolutely bananas when I interrupt myself because I've double tapped F and I start to stomp when I only want my Gyro to do it. I realize this is my own fault, but it shouldn't be a thing unless I'm actually close enough to stomp.

[Chaith.8256]

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> As a Scrapper main, WvW vet and mostly solo player, I love it. That said, it's usage is niche for players like myself. I would be fine with having it reworked to do something more, but I wouldn't want the revive/stomp function removed. More than anything, I want it's health + toughness increased, give it the ability to receive boons from outside sources (eg. throwing Toss Elixir B at it) and for the love of GOD fix the bug where your character will enter the stomping animation even if you're a mile away from your target when you activate the Gyro. Drives me absolutely bananas when I interrupt myself because I've double tapped F and I start to stomp when I only want my Gyro to do it. I realize this is my own fault, but it shouldn't be a thing unless I'm actually close enough to stomp.

 

You can use Elixir B on it... Toss it and summon it immediately, it'll have the boons.

 

My suggestion is to give it a third option other than stomp/revive, a single target allied mega buff for 6s

[miriforst.1290]

It used to have a limited niche to begin with. Dont get me wrong, the idea of the scrapper being tanky and using this to be the last man standing and being able to help others who are glassier than him is interesting. Scrapper + necro used to be good for example if i remember right. But now there are other meaner kids on the block. Now its no longer a scrapper babysitting a necro but a firebrand (who also applies his support to way more than just one target). Being tanky without support or damage in this game is rather useless, and while the scrapper have some it scales very badly with the number of allies/ enemies (more people means the bulwark divides its hp between each, function gyro is a single player support tool with a cd, all the gyros suffer from aoes etc). This is also why the hammer is good (a block or evade doesn't care if the fight involves 1 or 50 players).

 

The thing that bothered me the most as a wvw player is that outside its limited niche as a class mechanic (reviving or stomping in fights where there is not enough enemies to destroy it before its model has loaded (meaning one or two auto attacks these days), nor where there is to few for it to have a function at all like a 1v1) it further needs to have a grandmaster trait to reliable be able to stomp people even in a 1v1 (where the downed target is not an ele, a thief or a mesmer). reviving is a little bit better but still screams for stability with the amount of crowd control and cleave.

 

And further more with new traits and functionality more classes have reliable reviving skills available if they trait for it (necromancers or even eles with geysers). And in wvw those classes are way more popular anyways for the other stuff they bring. Being a rezzbot isnt a unique niche for the scrapper anymore with necros teleporting multiple teammates out of the fire and reviving them.

 

The final nail in the coffin is the scourge and its enablers (firebrand) and to a way lesser extent spellbreakers. That stability is now fear and your gyro does nothing. Don't use stability? Then there's still fear and damage. Id argue that for stomping purposes scourges shade bombing people are way faster to secure a stomp in an aoe. So in a way the scourges are doing the revive/finishing aspect better than us right now while packing a heavy punch and still bringing barriers to support.

 

And then theres pve.

 

I still like the idea and i love helping people and pulling of impossible revives. But right now i honestly think it could have a 5 sec cooldown after death and it wouldn't be a big problem to deal with.

[Peutrifectus.4830]

It's a funny one. It's my favourite spec. I don't use/like hammer. The only gyros I use are the function and snek (very occasional bulwark). I like how the traits work.

 

But there's a clear power curve and both scrapper and core are behind it. If I could ask for anything, it would be to dial back the curve itself, not bring other specs up to it but that feels like wishful thinking

 

 

The function gyro is nice but the targeted rez is very hard work in fast paced target rich fights. I like it but the targeting method could do with tweaking.

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Peutrifectus.4830" said:

> It's a funny one. It's my favourite spec. I don't use/like hammer. The only gyros I use are the function and snek (very occasional bulwark). I like how the traits work.

>

> But there's a clear power curve and both scrapper and core are behind it. If I could ask for anything, it would be to dial back the curve itself, not bring other specs up to it but that feels like wishful thinking

>

>

> The function gyro is nice but the targeted rez is very hard work in fast paced target rich fights. I like it but the targeting method could do with tweaking.

 

This thread is basically about the function gyro not the rest.

So your abswer would basically you like it oartially not fully just due to targetibg issues.

[melodyspectrum.2980]

Function Gyro needs to self-res in PvE, _at the very least_.

 

Other than that... I enjoy scrapper (past scrapper?) more than I do holosmith, but I really feel like at some point it's been nerfed too far into the ground. As mentioned many times, it feels like it was supposed to be a PvP spec and it was a pretty decent bruiser for a while, but I'm really not having fun with it since it's been pretty much ham-fisted into support role. Other classes do it better, you barely do any damage, while the older builds now tend to get destroyed by PoF meta. It's frustrating.

 

Then again I think that in particular is more about the PvP state in general. New specs steamroll old core builds and not-as-new-specs, in the end you're kinda limited to playing specific builds or having to work twice/thrice/extra hard for the same efficiency for your team, and that just sucks the fun out of it. Sure, some builds will always be better than others, but it would be nice to have something that isn't the last xpac spec be at least _viable_. /breathe

 

BACK TO SCRAPPER, if we ever do get more reworks, I'm hoping it's more in the tanky bruiser direction it was in at one point (after the complete new expansion op-ness got balanced some). I do enjoy the jack-of-all-trades aspect of the class, but we have core for that. Scrapper still has good defenses and survivability (reflects <3), I don't really like the addition of barrier however - it's a PoF thing, not a HoT thing. Either some more damage options or some more CC via lightning fields etc rolled up with improvements to FG (chants SELF-RES! SELF-RES!) could make it more fun to play again outside of non-challenging PvE content.