Is elementalist under-performing in raids too?

[tekfan.3179]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"tekfan.3179" said:

> > Going by benchmarks at a passive, stationary golem with a hitbox the size of a worldboss, the ele is still a choice for dps if you need cleave.

> > If you run into a realistic raid-situation, where you got support that may not be able to create the same situation of a stationary target and no need to dodge or sustaining yourself, then soulbeast or deadeye are better choices.

>

> And if you need cleave you'd pick ele over holosmith becaaaaause....? You enjoy putting a lot more effort for the same results?

 

Becaaaaaaaaause not. The only thing you can mention about the ele is the cleave, which doesn't mean that other professions aren't able to deliver this together with a much more attractive package. I guess listing the unrealistic scenario for ele-"dps" wasn't enough to convey my sarcasm.

[Coolguy.8702]

Yup, its official. Ele is the worst class in the game right now. They have no meta tier anywhere, aside from a few fractals. Check it for yourself

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Elementalist

 

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> You should use the standard set of boons and profession-specific enhancements listed on SC website. Using Fire glyph is correct now, I would guess it's mostly a matter of execution and timings.

 

Realy the last time I checked they used first the glyph of fire then of storm which always confused me . By the default I use glyph of storm so does the glyph of fire make more dmg now ?

[Ganathar.4956]

> @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> Yup, its official. Ele is the worst class in the game right now. They have no meta tier anywhere, aside from a few fractals. Check it for yourself

> https://metabattle.com/wiki/Elementalist

>

 

I kinda feel guilty for saying this, but I'm almost glad that the latest nerf happened. In the grand scheme of things it's not an enormous nerf that should be killing the class on its own. The truth is that ele has been in dire straits for a while now, but the high static mob DPS made people really overestimate ele's strength. Blinding them to the enormous list of weaknesses that the class has. But now not even the most avid of elementalist haters can complain about it, because the paper tiger was exposed.

 

The big issue is that I can't see the balance team addressing this any time soon. They will probably take a year or so. Play another class if you want to be competitive at anything in the meantime.

[Jski.6180]

> @"Ganathar.4956" said:

> > @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> > Yup, its official. Ele is the worst class in the game right now. They have no meta tier anywhere, aside from a few fractals. Check it for yourself

> > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Elementalist

> >

>

> I kinda feel guilty for saying this, but I'm almost glad that the latest nerf happened. In the grand scheme of things it's not an enormous nerf that should be killing the class on its own. The truth is that ele has been in dire straits for a while now, but the high static mob DPS made people really overestimate ele's strength. Blinding them to the enormous list of weaknesses that the class has. But now not even the most avid of elementalist haters can complain about it, because the paper tiger was exposed.

>

> The big issue is that I can't see the balance team addressing this any time soon. They will probably take a year or so. Play another class if you want to be competitive at anything in the meantime.

 

It was just a weaver nerf it would of been ok even if it was going after more dps over all even but this hit the core ele class. So not just dps weaver was hit but core ele was hit as well as tempest. They keep going after the core classes to hit the new elite spec with nerfs and that just wrong.

 

To the op i suggest you try to remake this with core classes vs eleit spec in mind though you may need to look up what core classes can do in raids (i do not tuch raids at all so i have no ideal other then weaver is best dps of eles and core ele is the worst.)

[Ganathar.4956]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> > @"Ganathar.4956" said:

> > > @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> > > Yup, its official. Ele is the worst class in the game right now. They have no meta tier anywhere, aside from a few fractals. Check it for yourself

> > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Elementalist

> > >

> >

> > I kinda feel guilty for saying this, but I'm almost glad that the latest nerf happened. In the grand scheme of things it's not an enormous nerf that should be killing the class on its own. The truth is that ele has been in dire straits for a while now, but the high static mob DPS made people really overestimate ele's strength. Blinding them to the enormous list of weaknesses that the class has. But now not even the most avid of elementalist haters can complain about it, because the paper tiger was exposed.

> >

> > The big issue is that I can't see the balance team addressing this any time soon. They will probably take a year or so. Play another class if you want to be competitive at anything in the meantime.

>

> It was just a weaver nerf it would of been ok even if it was going after more dps over all even but this hit the core ele class. So not just dps weaver was hit but core ele was hit as well as tempest. They keep going after the core classes to hit the new elite spec with nerfs and that just wrong.

>

> To the op i suggest you try to remake this with core classes vs eleit spec in mind though you may need to look up what core classes can do in raids (i do not tuch raids at all so i have no ideal other then weaver is best dps of eles and core ele is the worst.)

 

It wouldn't have been okay even if it was only a weaver nerf. Even PvE weaver was overnerfed in this patch. Yeah, nerfing core ele makes this patch even worse. But ele would be a trash class even if the nerf only affected weaver builds. Ele has been a paper tiger since PoF launch, an incredibly weak class that could only excel against static opponents while being babysat by everyone else. The class could not do much on its own back then, and it can do even less now. But now it doesn't even excel at the static bosses.

 

The class is so weak now that it's almost impossible for it to be meta anywhere, regardless of how much the game modes themselves or their metas get changed. For example, one of the main reasons why revenant was weak in PvP was that the condition meta countered it. Now rev is better because the condi meta is over. However, no matter how much the PvP meta is changed ele will never be good unless it gets major buffs.

[Jski.6180]

> @"Ganathar.4956" said:

> > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > @"Ganathar.4956" said:

> > > > @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> > > > Yup, its official. Ele is the worst class in the game right now. They have no meta tier anywhere, aside from a few fractals. Check it for yourself

> > > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Elementalist

> > > >

> > >

> > > I kinda feel guilty for saying this, but I'm almost glad that the latest nerf happened. In the grand scheme of things it's not an enormous nerf that should be killing the class on its own. The truth is that ele has been in dire straits for a while now, but the high static mob DPS made people really overestimate ele's strength. Blinding them to the enormous list of weaknesses that the class has. But now not even the most avid of elementalist haters can complain about it, because the paper tiger was exposed.

> > >

> > > The big issue is that I can't see the balance team addressing this any time soon. They will probably take a year or so. Play another class if you want to be competitive at anything in the meantime.

> >

> > It was just a weaver nerf it would of been ok even if it was going after more dps over all even but this hit the core ele class. So not just dps weaver was hit but core ele was hit as well as tempest. They keep going after the core classes to hit the new elite spec with nerfs and that just wrong.

> >

> > To the op i suggest you try to remake this with core classes vs eleit spec in mind though you may need to look up what core classes can do in raids (i do not tuch raids at all so i have no ideal other then weaver is best dps of eles and core ele is the worst.)

>

> It wouldn't have been okay even if it was only a weaver nerf. Even PvE weaver was overnerfed in this patch. Yeah, nerfing core ele makes this patch even worse. But ele would be a trash class even if the nerf only affected weaver builds. Ele has been a paper tiger since PoF launch, an incredibly weak class that could only excel against static opponents while being babysat by everyone else. The class could not do much on its own back then, and it can do even less now. But now it doesn't even excel at the static bosses.

>

> The class is so weak now that it's almost impossible for it to be meta anywhere, regardless of how much the game modes themselves or their metas get changed. For example, one of the main reasons why revenant was weak in PvP was that the condition meta countered it. Now rev is better because the condi meta is over. However, no matter how much the PvP meta is changed ele will never be good unless it gets major buffs.

 

I was thinking for the next elite spec of the month (before its nerfed too). As they nerf the core ele they make the future of ele even darker even if its years off and i am sure its a year + off before we even here any thing about the next expansion. There is no hope give it up things are a lot less painful but dont stop pointing out real problems.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Ganathar.4956" said:

> > @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> > Yup, its official. Ele is the worst class in the game right now. They have no meta tier anywhere, aside from a few fractals. Check it for yourself

> > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Elementalist

> >

>

> I kinda feel guilty for saying this, but I'm almost glad that the latest nerf happened. In the grand scheme of things it's not an enormous nerf that should be killing the class on its own. The truth is that ele has been in dire straits for a while now, but the high static mob DPS made people really overestimate ele's strength. Blinding them to the enormous list of weaknesses that the class has. But now not even the most avid of elementalist haters can complain about it, because the paper tiger was exposed.

>

> The big issue is that I can't see the balance team addressing this any time soon. They will probably take a year or so. Play another class if you want to be competitive at anything in the meantime.

 

Being able to tell "I told you so" seems quite a crappy consolation. But yeah - I've been telling you so.

 

As for fixing the balance, judging by the condi engi we can expect them to address the issue in 1-1.5 years.

[Ganathar.4956]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Ganathar.4956" said:

> > > @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> > > Yup, its official. Ele is the worst class in the game right now. They have no meta tier anywhere, aside from a few fractals. Check it for yourself

> > > https://metabattle.com/wiki/Elementalist

> > >

> >

> > I kinda feel guilty for saying this, but I'm almost glad that the latest nerf happened. In the grand scheme of things it's not an enormous nerf that should be killing the class on its own. The truth is that ele has been in dire straits for a while now, but the high static mob DPS made people really overestimate ele's strength. Blinding them to the enormous list of weaknesses that the class has. But now not even the most avid of elementalist haters can complain about it, because the paper tiger was exposed.

> >

> > The big issue is that I can't see the balance team addressing this any time soon. They will probably take a year or so. Play another class if you want to be competitive at anything in the meantime.

>

> Being able to tell "I told you so" seems quite a crappy consolation. But yeah - I've been telling you so.

>

> As for fixing the balance, judging by the condi engi we can expect them to address the issue in 1-1.5 years.

 

I am taking this more with the assumption that Anet would have never made a serious attempt to fix ele issues. Not as long as it was considered an "OP class". Now they won't have much of a choice but to try and fix the class. But sadly, that doesn't mean that they won't take ages to accomplish this.

[MyPuppy.8970]

Yes. As long as performance is measured by result/investment ratio, it is lower than 1.

[Nepster.4275]

Yes, it does.

And i think the reason for it is: ANet balance team watch some pro-raid runs and say to themselfs "Hmmm, this class is overperforming, lets nerf it". They clearly not even considering to start the game, and try to recreate the same numbers what they seen in the video with their own knowledge of the class.

So basically, they fail to understand the concept of high risk-high reward.

Instead they created deadeye...Im actually laughing while dying inside...

[mulzi.8273]

> @"Nepster.4275" said:

> Yes, it does.

> And i think the reason for it is: ANet balance team watch some pro-raid runs and say to themselfs "Hmmm, this class is overperforming, lets nerf it". They clearly not even considering to start the game, and try to recreate the same numbers what they seen in the video with their own knowledge of the class.

> So basically, they fail to understand the concept of high risk-high reward.

> Instead they created deadeye...Im actually laughing while dying inside...

 

Actually, that is giving them a bit too much credit. As a 'balance team', they are gathering statistical data from a subset of raids and crunching numbers, and making decisions based on those numbers. While this strategy can be effective, it tends to lead to these weird 'balance' changes when they do not have the circumstances behind the numbers, just the raw data. Then to make matters a bit worse, they listen to the chatter on the forums, check their spread sheets, and see a high number and then adjust it to 'normal' levels, but then add on another 30% to that nerf to ensure their data sheet numbers fall way under the line they were aiming for.

 

Not sure about anyone else, but as a loyal GW1 and GW2 player for years and years, I am losing faith in this franchise as a whole. It use to be when a patch day was announced I would get excited and whip up the thread to see the changes. Now I cringe and don't even bother checking anymore. Just wait for the inevitable whines on the forums that paper got one-shot by scissors a few times, scissors escaped rock and rock couldn't get the kill, and the alrighty rock still dies from paper too easily.

[Evil.1580]

> @"Poelala.2830" said:

> > @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > elementalists well needed to be bought in line, remained outliers for far too long.

>

> I agree. Elementalists DO need to be brought in line and have remained outliers for far too long. That's why they need buffs. They're weak and NOT meta in all 3 game modes. And they have been weak in two of them, WvW and sPvP since PoF launched.

 

I totally agree. Ele do need a buff. A general one. Maybe buff current elite spec and skills and make the next elite spec unique which will bring ele in the meta.

Spellsinger or arcane archer with rifle or long bow with good range and single target dmg.