Lord of the Fire.6870

The reason why cFB is so OP in 100 cm is because : It is the top DPS build in this fractal, it is the tankiest build you can have there, you can block dmg from events and you have good cc maybe I should list the detail: **DPS**: The first few things which make it good it is condi, it burn dmg mostly, you have 3 munition skills which are reload during events. Tomb 1 can be rest with the dead of a mob. Which makes it in some fractal OP behind hope e.g Sirens Reef more about it later. But there are thing which are even more broken A.) What Noodle Ant.1605 said I think it will give max 1k DPS more B) Major Sigil of Bursting and Superior Sigil of Bursting stack which is a bug which brings around 2k extra dmg. C) You can stand on the boss using Renewed Focus while(at the end) the event with the cycles which allows you to hit the boss more , you don't need to run to it and you can cast SoJ and the condi mantra while on it . My guild mate also says he can auto attack while Renewed Focus is running which should be also a bug anyway this brings another 4-5k D) On start you pre-stack Ash of Justice with 12 stack you get another 10-14k once at the start but only for one . Unlike how Might and other boons work some silly decided that it depends entirely on who it casted and every new stack extends the original. Which also makes the trait Quickfire a bit absolute as support build other wise It would give 1-2k DPS. Basically the big DPS spike at the beginning is why people love CFB but also it let it looks really broken. E others) Like I said in Sirens Reef you got 50k DPS and this when the boss falls to the ground with cFB to be true I can do this with a lot of tricks as Staff weaver too but the point is I need a lot of trick like ghost sigil and potion but cFB can use them too.. and then cFB dps will go even higher.(60-70k). So what CptAurellian.9537 said is very true. **Defence**: Well we have heavy armour, good amount of HP, and we have our own ageis and we can also use Tomb 2 for self condi clean. **CC**: The point is for cFB is you can swap the Signet of Wrath out with out losing too much dps unlike other builds e.g Weaver and Tempest even one utility less and you lose major DPS also Sanctuary. Isn't the only big cc skill. The whole cc discussion is also annoying the the bone for 100 cm from my perspective. The way I see it for 100cm is some cc bars where there to lure the cc out of players and the dev wanted to build basically around this so the cc bar takes even more then usually . On the other hand they tried to ban because of that cc items which is also hopeless because to make it short there are more cc items then even the wiki has . I know that because I found some while doing world completion. The vanilla team had it seem a lot of fun making them .

> @"YTKafka.4681" said: > Super Speed isn't Broken. You have no mobile melee pressure and your positioning sucks. Use Scourges not Dragon Hunters > (You idiots please stop using Dragon hunters they're too easy to just 600 range with scourges and revs and you stand there looking like flipping kittens. They're only good against idiots who can't dodge. Which granted is 75% of players anyway but still...) Yes but this is also the problem to explain the problems to others current guild builds can give near perma superspeed to the group . With this they can evade all kinds of pulsing damage besides the initial purpose of being just fast . Which means cast build become useless and also the balance between defense and offens becomes kinda broken. > @"YTKafka.4681" said: > Burning isn't broken (well it is but...). Your just don't know how to cleanse or apply resistance tbh. The only thing powerful about Condi builds is their abiliity to tank while still doing massive damage to bad players. This isn't PvE where you can skip on the condi cleanse (Stop, Drop, and Roll for Ele/Actually Bringing Warhorn on Warrior/Understanding how Guard applys Burning/etc. The reason burning is not OP in WvW is that you have second support in each group also Scrapper transform burns into aegis. Originally Arena.NET didn't want to have 2 support builds in each group because of this Herold has no need for diviner gear . Which in return is also broken , in the current state you only notice this in sPvP same as burn dmg. If someday Arena.NET notice this and starts to change things the whole Jenga Tower comes down. > @"YTKafka.4681" said: > Longbow isn't Broken. You shouldn't be getting hit by DH LB5 in small scale the tell is huge, large scale you should call out if you're babby cage or use your personal stab to get out, and Ranger LB2 can be made unblockable not un**dodge**able. Reflects, LoS, and Target Cap makes Ranger useless if you stick in a group. Also I assume you're not talking about Warrior Longbow because if you are well... I don't comment on a weapon but the amount of thief and rangers as roamers is significant. > @"YTKafka.4681" said: > Stability isn't broken. It's the only thing that stops the game from becoming a CC fest full of lines and statics. However I agree that Stability only being removed on a stack per .75 seconds is a bit long. I would have gone with .6 seconds personally. One thing I agree I don't like the crazy amount of cc this game has (and most of them are aoes) > @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said: > > @"Galmac.4680" said: > > Warclaw is cool in WvW and needed for some classes with no mobility. Also add a springer for more CC! :) > > Yes, we won't get content because they are all working on the 3rd xpac. So no springer, I know. > > Don't give them weird ideas... Enough kitten in WvW already >:( Let me add something I like the Medizooka and give me some golems with a good front AoE besides all this I love how fast the mount was at the beginning all the nerfs sucked the love out of them.

> @"JTGuevara.9018" said: > First off, I don't think they're coming so let's get _that_ out of the way... But honestly, do people actually think they're going to work? I don't. And here's why: > > 1.) _It's not much different than server links_ -- Servers already get partially restructured every 2 months with server links. Guilds across servers already get put into a de-facto alliance, it's just not called an alliance. If anything, the 'alliance' system is just a more souped up version of server links. The population imbalance will still persist. If anything, it will be _worse_. > > 2.)_Players and guilds won't change_ -- Try-hard players and guilds will still find a way to bandwagon and game the system. Instead of server stacking, it will be alliance stacking instead. You can have the best matchmaking system in the world for world restructuring that takes different metrics and statistics in mind, but it doesn't mean jack if players just stack the winning alliances and losing or struggling alliances don't show up due to attrition, demoralization, etc. This situation makes things harder for smaller guilds and alliances that are trying to resist them. > > 3.) _Guilds will have too much power_ -- Alliances will eventually consolidate into powerhouses limited only by the yet to be proposed alliance cap, dominating smaller ones either through victories, bandwagons, or both. So, as with the current server stacking and through historical bandwagons over the years, attrition eventually sets in as smaller guilds desperately try to resist the stacked alliances and people leave or quit WvW entirely out of frustration. Again, it's no different than the current situation. It will be Blackgate all over again but with guild alliances. Due to people quitting, the matching system will get to the point where it cannot find an opposing alliance of equivalent strength, so the system breaks down. > > Thoughts to this? to: 1&2) Depends how it is implemented it so far I remember there was a hard cap of 1000 players for a alliance and then ad 20% more randoms from players which has no alliance selected . Basically it depends how it is implemented when the alliance hit this limit you can't select it any more even when your guild is in the alliance and when a guild chance to what alliance it count you need to make sure that every player in this guild need to reselect this guild as their alliance guild and this all thread and transition safe . Otherwise you can overstack. 3.) If you a try hard type of player and you want to 'use' the alliance system you need basically 2 guilds which are basically the alliance system in which are only very active members. Such Mega guild are very unstable what is stable are those guilds which have 15-20 active players . This show also the weakness of this system what happens to the player which are inactive ? What happens when a player leaves or get kicked out of a guild does he still count to the cap ? I can add to this the alliance system won't safe WvW even if it works as intended like other here already said effectively they removed parts of the content from Wvw , with the pip nerf of EoftM they made this map obsolete. With shift from points generation from objectives to kills they which basically means that objectives are often ignored which in return means that the siege war aspect got slowly pushed away. Then they nerfed Siege weapons and the last time they nerfed banners which makes gain holding objects again less meaningful. Let me be frank you can find 50 vs 50 vs 50 fights totally cool but this doesn't change the fact that the Gw2 servers have a hard time with it and you can find such mass scale fight way better in other MMOs. What was unique for Gw2 was the Siege War + RPG elements which is mostly washed away now in WvW.

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > revenant is played by the best and best tend to win :) Well it not 100% comparable when I'm looking at the results of my dragonball match up where everyone can play what he/she/whatever likes then the best players are ele and thief (and a core necro I played with and against). The heavy metal meta how I call it rev + guard is the result of hard pushes from the community over years against light weights because they do more dmg while dying easier but when you make them the same it makes only sense to go for the hardshell builds ..

Well at the moment everyone who likes PvP is doing dragonball because it is a PvP which is 100% fair and it is compare to the PvP Gw 2 a real fun. So you won't find them in ranked PvP. > @"FrownyClown.8402" said: > > @"Ntastan.7509" said: > > > @"FrownyClown.8402" said: > > > The reason I hate pvp these days is toxic people in ranked. Playing meta is boring AF and anyone catching you not playing meta they go crazy and talk about how bad you are. I want to be competitive but feel like I am forced to play a certain way. > > > > "these days"? I was always like this in ranked in every game. And no most of the times it's not toxicity. Snowflakes that had their pride/ego offended (and the last few years it's not hard to offend someone) started calling it like that. > > When you stay to double or even triple cap (yes, i've seen it in plat) while i play a bunker and you are a thief that can go fast for a +1 somewhere, then prepare for some of the so-called "toxicity". > > When you keep wasting time trying to win a fight you outnumber enemy at far for like 3-4mins and you don't realize that your team gets outnumbered all this time cause you can't kill or rotate for help, then prepare for some of the so-called "toxicity". > > When you run vs 2-3 alone and die instantly all the time, then prepare for some of the so-called "toxicity". > > > > You don't like meta? Fine, unranked is always there, you can try w/e you want there. Let me guess "ppl that play there troll or enemies are not good enough to test the build"? Ppl play ranked to increase their rating and most of the times they play what they know, expecting others to do the same and by testing new or "hipster" builds you don't. It makes them feel like it's 4v5 and some times it is. Don't expect ppl to say "Oh you have a build that doesn't even do half of others' dmg, bring zero boons, dies almost as fast as zerker but it's fun cause you spin around? Ye that's totally fine. No prob. You can take away my 15 rating". When you play ranked you basically play with other ppl's rating. And btw what do you mean by meta? The 3 builds that are meta atm in metabattle? If yes then i doubt ppl get mad about that. I play a build that is labeled as "good", not even "great", and i get no hate about that. > > What does poor rotations have to do with the build you play? And by meta i mean the best build for that profession. > > Playing ranked for the sake of climbing is all well and good but how is that fun? I used to enjoy it 5 years ago. Now it seems like a chore. > > If they actually paired you with people of your skill level in unranked then yeah i would never touch ranked. > > I guess i am salty. Salty that pvp is full of toxic solo players and not people trying to enjoy pvp with their friends. Eliminating competitive team queue solved unfair matchmaking but also ruined the longevity of pvp by discouraging people to play together. I wouldn't call it "solved unfair matchmacking" it is hard to explain but by trying to do the most fair system they created to most unfair PvP &match up system possible. to explain it : 1.) We have classes / elite specs with vastly different performance -> Because of the bias from the developers but also huge pushes from the community against certain classes with certain agendas(IT is HELL) 2.) We have players who plays really bad or outdated builds -> because they think their builds are great and like mentioned people often plays PvP in MMoRPGs like well rpgs and solo. 3.)The scoring System doesn't care about the rank of the enemies or how good you perform as an individual(top stats) -> well this is since I believe vanilla so on its own it is not fair and favours bots and rice sacks. 4.)The matchmaking system has a unique quirk to it its tries to find matching classes on both sides(also it tries to avoid to many of the same in a match up). First the same then all variate of the base class and then the same armour class when the system looks for ranks I don't know seems relative late. -> They made it so that you have equal opportunity because it is an MMORPG 5.) I noticed a weird additional twist in the matchmaking I don't know if this an algorithm or a statistically anomaly roughly every second round you get basically those bad players who plays outdated build appointed to your side at least this is so until end of gold 3. -> You may caught where this goes also this is why some people say they have the feeling the system is rigged in Gw2 6.) You can change builds shortly before start 7.) You can duo queue When you play it more like LOL and not an RPG you can play the system like a piano and I'm sure players doing it knowingly or not since years. What you basically do login into a trash build together with a friend then reroll shortly before the actual match begins which alone increase you win chance a lot, you play duo this gets another few points, if you in voice chat another few, if someone can play alternative a condi cleanser tank another few points and this is how you get a high rank position. I see this a lot in wildlife especially weekends where the numbers of "bad players" rise some other players seems to farm them like crazy. How is this unfair? Well when you play it the normal way goes in with you standard build duo queuing or not you get those "bad players" and on the other side you get good players with good builds because they took the spots from the bad players on their side and because Arena.NET failed on point 1-6 there is no check and balance in place against such manipulation in PvP. Edit: To go a bit deeper in to the topic because I'm very convinced people have a hard time to understand this. When you have a game of PvP with a scoring and matchmaking system you have 50% to win in an optimal case but the system how it is kinda force the 50% but only when everything is okay. This is not normal you have usually some artefacts where you win 4-5 times in a row and then lose 3-6 times after it some time this is not how PvP behaves in Gw2 or better said it more the exception that you see something like this (mainly weekends lose and the follows up wins during the start of the week). What I calculated is when you have those "bad players" on your side you have at least 70% chance to lose when the other side doesn't have this handicap. So when your win rate is 50% then with the what I call 'ladder snipping' it is the 70% of the other 50% to your 50% which is 85% + to other stuff which I said which helps too until the rank is so high it doesn't work any more. This is on the gain side. On the other side you have players which are pressed down like me you get top stats after top stats but you are playing around in silver 3 and gold 1. Like I said if one of the points from 1-6 would be different this would be void but like this it is an exploit. Well you can say a weird one because it use so many shortcomings yes it is also a shortcoming of the player base using outdated or selfmade builds ans sticking to them but to go a bit deeper bots using them too from my experience with them. The finnal yes if everyone using it it would also made this void.

> @"Lucio.4190" said: > I like it when the game punishes the cheater. > > > I think cheating is a growing problem in games and it requires resources to monitor and clean the game from cheaters (and bad behaviour). > A good AI could be a useful tool in finding suspects, but I think real people has to do the dirty work. I don't trust AI to do the whole job. > That is expensive, but it seems to me that we can't avoid it anymore. > > If there's a feature that identifies a mod or if a similar pattern is used, or if there's a way to compare how the keys are pressed (order, timing or pattern) and also log the reaction time to action from npc and other players. Maybe an AI could help with reporting the "maybe" cheaters that get caught in the net. Then someone at ANet can check that player to clear or punish, depending on if the rules were broken or not. > > That could also work on foul language and bad behaviour. Automatically comparing the words and names with a dictionary, reporting and then manually reviewing that little rascal. A)The problem is more where does it start ? There is a growing community in the Internet which do speed runs but the same community is also okay with the use of wall glitchs and bugging mechanics while they measure their world records. In Gw2 fractals it is the same 'good' groups using broken mechanic like pre buffs , /gg , portals and teleports to essentially shorten the run often around 50% or more . This way of running through it has nothing to do how the game designer intended you to play this game but Arena.NET gave them/us the green card to let them/us do as we/they like. The problem for PvP games is when you win a lot you are a top player and top players can easily became Twitch streamers so that is their insensitive.(also eSport contracts). Basically recently a community has formed that tries to get the same fame as the PvP online games there was always in some games it always was with great fame when you done a world first like WoW . The point is I read they paid 10.000ths of dollars in ingame gold for the world first and other guilds too for their tries. Basically the big insensitive to do something not by the rules is there too. From my experience the more competitive an MMO is the more self-destructive it is I saw it when everyone one was hyped about ArcheAge back in the days I already knew what will happen. B) The other big point is opportunity and with this I don't mean any 3th party software I mean people are at home and have time e,g with al the talking recently in the PvP forum I realized how the PvP queue really works and how this interact with class balance and the scoring system fact which I think are being abused since years. Yes and I want to make Youtube Video out of it when I ever come to it. Also I found out some juice fact about the WvW queue which I still need to test. Conclusion: There reasons are 1.) Lazy Developers which don't fix their stuff and gives opportunity 2.) Competitiveness is good but when money is involved or rare items or something very exclusive people go nuts and this often hurt the game 3.) Through Covid-19 people have a lot of time to find stuff and mabye do silly stuff.

> @"snoow.1694" said: > As I think there is alot of misinformation being spread about the current issue with Burn Dragonhunter and people are suggesting ineffective adjustments I would like to give my input as well, while trying to be as objective as possible, because I main Guardian since beta > > First of all, the situation we are currently witnessing with Burn DH is the result of constant overnerfs on ArenaNets side, because they don‘t simply adjust overperforming Guardian specs, but straight up eradicate them from competitive play. > Firebrand neither offers any form of damage whatsoever nor good support anymore, Core Guardians got the single most reliable way to do power damage as the slowest class ingame taken away since the symbol nerf, a nerf that makes power builds obsolete through our class mechanic and the one last gimmick build Guardians are resorting to, Burn DH, will and should be nerfed. I hope though that ArenaNet won‘t simply nerf Burn DH without giving Guardians some form of power damage, that we can land with our little mobility or I can promise the next meta will be even more bunker heavy, since Guardians will have no more incentive to invest into damage specs and Healbreakers will run on a rampage through PvP. > > As I myself think Burn DH should be nerfed as well, it is important to point out what the issue actually is. > Neither the condition „Burn“ nor Rune of the Trapper are currently overpowered for basically the same reason, other classes can‘t utilize them as well and make them feel as oppressive. Nerfing burn as an important source of damage would simply make the whole meta even more of a bunker party, nerfing RoT would change absolutely nothing. > What makes Burn DH so strong at the moment is the extreme synergy Permeating Wrath offers with Sword of Justice and Eternal Armory. Individually they aren‘t actually strong and can‘t even put up alot of burn uptime, but combined they complement each other too well. > What I think should be nerfed isn‘t Permeating Wrath, which offers base 2s burn, but Sword of Justice and Eternal Armory, by turning SoJ from a multihit attack into a one hit attack. All synergy with Permeating Wrath would be instantly gone and the gimmick wouldn’t work anymore My take on is that what it makes strong is the combination of cc and SoJ. SoJ isn't strong alone in PvP because you can dodge it but with cc it can use it full strength. True every aspect on your list is a bit out of the power curve but not very uncommon but what is uncommon is how SoJ works . The skill which spawns SoJ is a munitions skill while SoJ itself gives something like pulsing dmg there are no other skill like this in Gw 2 . Mathematically speaking this has an insane growth if you look at the dmg as a result this the main burst source for all guardian builds . It looks for me like someone wanted to buff the guard but done it by just dumping dps into SoJ and sure enough when you look at the wiki page https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sword_of_Justice . It got buffed countless times. What I say with this is: 1. Yes stealth is not really balanced in Gw2 like in other MMOs 2. Yes fire condis is annoying because the can reapplied easily. 3. Yes cc is annoying because we don't support guard with stabi any more 4. Yes the trapper rune is too gimmicky and people can't say if the stuff they see it legit or people using some kinds of hacks But nothing of this is so out of the power curve like SoJ and no other skill can apply 20 stacks burn in 5 s in Gw2

> @"Zeronmyouji.6153" said: > RIP sPvP im dropped for silvre 2 im gold 3 dont can play spvp anymore A year ago I also played gold 3 /p1 now in stuck in silver too. if my skills just dropped this wouldn't be a problem is :  Yes this looks bad but the point is I'm in 70% of those fight top killer or top dmg and in 50% both so clearly something is manipulating the ladder either is it bots on my side hackers on the other , both or even ladder snipers.(because it is weekend). I even done a couple of days the near impossible feat of having , Top Healer, Top Killer, Top Dmg , Top attacker ,Top Reviver all at the same time and yes my team still lost.

> @"Solanum.6983" said: > They said they're working on better ways to detect and prevent cheating from bettering the report system to preventing what they can from a code level. > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/121390/an-update-on-game-security-and-player-reporting-in-guild-wars-2 > > It's a problem in any Free to play game, If a Hacker is banned they just create a new account and the cycle continues, Hopefully the upcoming changes can mitigate it. No free to play isn't the problem like others is this problem is also in Wow also if you want to do anything serious in Gw2's pvp you need the add-ons. There are also no good solution for everything. Hacks can / should be fixed from Arena.NET . Really good bots are hard to identify and under p1 50-70%people are often mute and seems to know no strategy are bots ? I don't know. With cheats it is similar with that many gimmicks in the game its really hard when you suddenly get a cc pull! skills when you fighting a healbreaker where does it come from ? from the trapper dh (which I don't see at that point) who know? While we dont have premade groups in ranked I think we should at least allow to search for roles so you could at least filter a bit. The other things is that people could watch running games I have the vague idea that pvp get cut into realms and people pay for realms and then mange them basically like fps in the olds days.

> @"Touchme.1097" said: > Guardian is in a decent spot but it's not doing better than other professions. If you have a look at snowcrows the benchmark is currently dominated by mesmers with 42k dps. Considering Anet is not going to nerf the current Meta builds I would rather buff those builds who are not in the Meta with a balance patch before EoD is released so the staff can focus on balancing the new elite specialisations. It depend if we talk about raids or fractals , Raids have mostly bosses with big hitboxes in fractal it is the other way around . We basically we said cFB is meta in cm fractal runs without serious competition if you look at your average player. Actually I didn't heard before that there is a 42k Chrono build this is more a proof that Arena.NET holding their hands in the air atm because they made their policy before that 40k is the limit and every build above it gets the hammer and yes there are also build which under perform like Mirage ,Spellbreaker, Scrapper(and core), Scourge and ELe in PvE On the healing side Revenants Ventri missing 10 people condi cleans, Chrono can be played is half a healer but not so really.

I say it simple 3 cFBs + HFB + Alarcrene in 100cm is meta and yes there are other options too But: * They die easier because less HP and no free aegis which is when you have one shoot mechanic with certain instabilities this makes the run much smoother * Their rota is often much more complex like condi weaver *hust* * Their dps is often not on pair what cFB can or the players can't do their rota as good as needed for this * Some builds don't offer enough cc at all like scourge and condi weaver(only in air). Not enough cc means sure wipe in the sorrow phase. To add what Cyninja.2954 said the pros: * We are kinda forced to run cFB at least one because of the nerf of the cc utilities there are condi builds which can do good cc but nothing which comes on this level. * The reason to pick condi builds is they tick even when the boss moves away this combined with the possibility to burst your dmg out is what makes the build strong Where is it weak? * On a stationary boss with big hit box means 98cm(Nightmare) Molten Boss.This is because power DPS build doing more dmg on big hitboxes because some skills hit them multiply times also the advantage with the ticking condution while the boss is moving falls away. Yes basically what frareanselm.1925 said is nonsense. Where is it strong? * Especially good where the boss moves around and has a small hitboxes meaning : Twillight Oasis,Mai Trin, Deep Stone , Snow Blind , 99cm , 100 cm The point is for the rest it isn't necessary strong but it isn't bad either. Personally: When this with cFB started when the 100 cm was new our premade group/guild though that cFb will get a nerf relatively quickly because of it absurd dmg in compare to other build especially power and be good on so many other fractals. As a complete premade group this we don't have problems but we can't always run as premades when that happens BS can become a problem because for random groups it has fallen kind out of meta because it is random if you have one or not. I also saw how burn guards overperform in other modes too. It seem guard became what ele was during HoT

Here stand nonsens

Uff this escalated quickly . I'm not sure what I should say. First yes you can't clear simply away fire condition but this also applies to nearly all condi builds because they can reapply their condi quickly. Reason for this is the munition system which came partially from PoF but which is not PoF only Yes for core Guard in general we talking about torch 4 and the SoJ which are available for all variants. Yes torch 4 is only a mini munition system with practically 2 loads(but unblockable). SoJ the amount of fire condition you get stacks like crazy from it until the first fire condition run out. Condi DH is mostly used because it has also good cc or better pulsing cc with bow 5 and with the trapper rune it getting close the old Mirage jumping out of the stealth cc you and condi overload = kill but I must say it is not this fast like Mirage back in the days. On the other hand the missing stabi is what screw everyone up against it. Condi FB has even more munition systems with the tomb 1 and the condi mantra which is nerfed and less cc (but ax 3 and tomb 1-3 ). basically this is the build with the theoretically highest burst in PvP since Soulbeast falls flat through nerfs. ----- Condi Weaver since the nerf to might build up it became raw to see it . Yes it use some munition system too which is promodial stance which was nerfed some time ago. Condi Tempest well this what I play like others said yes I use fire fields but also my fire overload to do fire condition but I also have access to hard and soft cc with my build so I can people fixate in the fire fields . The point is my skills are slow(AND HAVE BIG ANIMATIONS), I have no munition system(and create a run away effect like SoJ) I need to change attunment when my skills are in CD. But yes if you staying still I will take you apart with the same dmg an Condi DH has .(or maybe more) The point is those builds works so well because they are besides modification copy of PvE builds which are unerfed or mostly unerfed in PvP. Aas a result with start of this season I had in every matchup DHs .

I don't think the stealth part is the problem the effect is so short . Problem is more the cc + SoJ part which melt you down 2-3s

> @"mixxed.5862" said: > **Well, what even is the purpose of balance changes?** At the most basic level it comes down to three things: > A ) Make the game play as fun as possible. (That's really the whole point of it being a game!) > B ) Promote build diversity and try and create an as level playing field as possible by adjusting outliers. (Choice is fun and this is an MMO**RPG**!) > C ) Change for the sake of change. (Keep the game fresh!) > > Usually the balance changes we see should serve all of these goals at the same time. Like nerfing nade holo and kala sustain renegade - they were unfun to play against, spammy, one-dimensional and definitely out of whack. However now it becomes increasingly evident that it won't be as easy going forward. If Anet continues to only nerf the obvious outliers - like shortbow shiro renegade - we will shift even further towards a sustain centric meta, which is slow, unrewarding and unfun. Worst case scenario : Bunker meta where noone ever gets a kill. Heck, duels on a side node shouldn't be a boring chore, an indefinite stand-off between bunker builds! It's latest inception : Side node scrapper. What's next? Water weaver? Decap druid? Defense spellbreaker? When conquest is more about getting the kills and the map momentum it's simply more fun. > However, is the right solution setting shortbow shiro renegade as the new standard for offensive builds - as I've seen suggested recently? Hell no, it's a spammy, one-dimensional build and inherently unfun in the very design that makes it superior to others : Just spam your dps off cooldown until you win. Very short cooldowns on your shortbow skills and high damage coefficients offset the need to time any of it against your opponents defenses. > **Adjusting the outliers should not be up for debate. However sustain needs a nerf as well - in a comprehensive manner - so we don't see the next bunker spec pop up yet again.** > > As a more general concept: > **What even is "fun design" in PvP?** > * **Interactive gameplay** achieved by having **opportunity for counterplay**. Make every button pressed serve a specific purpose, have solid consequence, opportunity cost and counterplay. Thus make every build play most **skillfully**. > * A **diverse** and **(reasonably) fast-paced** meta. > > Stale, slow 1v1's that draw on indefinitely are clearly counter to both of these premises. > We need to finally find a sensible balance with neither power-crept offense (= button mashing ftw!, like pre-february) nor overpowering defense (= stalemate meta, like it is right now). Can't be that hard to achieve, right? > I still hope CMC can make it happen. > > **tldr;** > Keep adjusting the outliers **and** reduce sustain more broadly. **Unleash CMC**. > > _(edited **heavily** to make my point more clear)_ A and B are good With C I have a big problem on multiply levels : 1.) They have enough to do if they would take A and B seriously because some of it requires change of base mechanic like stealth this would take anyway all time they have for balance patchs or the rework of some base classes like ele or engi. 2.) Such patch caused problem in the past or better suddenly stuff got missing like fall dmg skills which I later noticed are good in 30-40% of all jumping puzzles or changed which later came overpowered out to be not be changed after this like eles earth condi changes or aura cleans stuff in PvP. 3.) You are 'always' in for a shitstorm because people like to play the game like it is. Even when I'm effected by it we do make jokes in the guild how this goes possible on internally in Arena.NET. Do they draw sticks who takes the next shitstorm(next balance patch) ? Do they get promoted by how many of them they got ? Are there a competition who makes the next balance patch to get the next shitstorm ?^^

I getting a headache reading this. (because we had already this discussion so often ) 1.) There aren't many bunker builds in PvP besides curtain scrapper builds 2.) What made the rest look so tanky is the reduced dmg vs their life pool + your invulnerable over time skills 3.) Arena.NET like already mentioned reduced sustain a loooot they removed all amulets which you can use as tank , they reduced heal a lot, they reduced up time of protection, resistence and stabi so it is a meme ( everything under 2 s is a meme not a boon) 4.) The reason why people now use their invulnerable over time skills or go full tank is because : a) They need to compensate for the lose of the HFB = lose of protection , heal , stabi. b) People show this way what they think about Arena.NET balance basically Arena.NET want slower game play ? .. so be it. c) It makes sense to play this way HFB main job was to neutralize the burst spike from the other players by busting heal & boons out on his side. This is something which actually some people in WvW doesn't understand HFB has no mean to constantly heal besides a bit of regeneration. What players in PvP now do is neutralize the spike by being invulnerable. Naturally this prolong the fights it pains me but this basically replace the HFB.

> @"melandru.3876" said: > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > @"Lord of the Fire.6870" said: > > > > @"melandru.3876" said: > > > > > @"Wuffy.9732" said: > > > > > > @"Shaogin.2679" said: > > > > > > How so? Both require you to hit a target with a skill. The only difference is one skill is applying all the damage at once, while the other skill is applying that same damage over a set period of time. Just because burn Guard is stupid doesn't mean all condi damage builds are broken, just like an OP power damage build doesn't mean all power damage is broken. > > > > > > > > > > This look normal to you? https://i.imgur.com/zLPrCEy.png > > > > > I have yet to meet any other condi class that comes close to 60k-80k burst damage. And it's all burning, lol. > > > > > > > > > > Besides the point, you are still right, damage is universal even though condition damage and power damage has small differences. But ignoring the fact that condiFB (or any class with powercreep) is obviously broken is only going to make people dread it more. Anet hasn't done a proper balance patch in months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ahahahahahaa > > > > > > > > a pve screen about a firebrand (what has that to do with dh??) that can get high numbers by using ashes of the just compared to dh who obviously can't > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ashes_of_the_Just not once, but 3 times! > > > > > > > > 1 cast of ashes is 15 (3 stacks on 5 players) burn stacks, for free. it's pretty clear what multiple casts of this does, and how unrelated to dh that is > > > > > > > > 1) prestack boons as usual, f1 skill 5 for ashes of the just. renewed focus to reset f1. again f1 skill 5 for ashes of the just (second cast) > > > > 2) press f at mistlock. swap out renewed focus for feel my wrath > > > > 3) start the fight with 2 casts of ashes of the just allready on group > > > > 4) follow rotation as usual > > > > > > > > if anything in your complaint would be true, it's how overtuned resseting cooldowns with the mistlock is. > > > > anet is aware, if you have seen how they handled sunqua peaks where you can't prestack boons anymore (but you can still prestack skill effects like ashes of the just wink wink) > > > > > > > > have you not seen the snow crows mursaat overseer record, where the "chosen" firebrand who was the lucky one to get the ashes of the just stacks from EVERYONE had 100k+ burn ticks > > > > > > The full 12 stack of ashes of the just might be the difference between 60k and 80k burst dmg but it is still a lot comparable to Soulbeast in PvE and this as condi build which is still absurd and this is not the only balance problem with it in PvE on many bosses the build does well or lot better then power build in the fractals like sirens reef, mai trin , deepstone , twilight oasis everywhere where small hitboxes a are thing and/or the boss running around(or you are forced to run around). = 30% to 100% more dmg. This also include some other cm bosses. > > > > > > In PvP I tested it yesterday yes you are a glass canon but you can instantly melt your enemies if you partner has good cc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > lmao you said what makes it strong in your own post > > > > siren reef > > mai trin > > deepstone > > twilight > > > > all have 1 thing in common: adds > > > > killing an add that grants exp (which all the above have) resets f1 because of the trait https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Renewed_Justice > > so once again AND FOR THE FINAL TIME ashes of the just is what makes fb strong > > and soulbeast, power soulbeast (and weaver) both burst 110k+ there is a reason why nearly every record is WITHOUT condi fb > > lame quoted myself This is not about what soulbeast can spike from 0.1% player base it about what an average cm player can do with it on a somewhat prolonged boss fight which is also a difference because cFb has even after the burst very high dps. > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > Why the dickens are you talking about condi-FB in a PvP thread? Literally nobody plays this. > > And, btw, hardly anyone is playing burn-DH at tournament level anymore either. You know why? Because any competent player with a bit of experience can easily counter that build. Go watch the 1 player who played it in EU-mAT getting farmed if you don't believe me. This whole thing was a fad that has already run its course at top level, give it another 5-6 months and the plebs will catch up too. The point for PvP is in the 2 vs 2 ranked atm your main goal is burn trough enemies life pool as fast as you can not to catch noded which require more sustain also you have aegis with you and renewed focus . Basically burn guard are very good at this. But what you are missing as cFB is cc and maybe might which in the 2 vs 2 you can coordinate with your pre-made partner on voice. The point for 2vs2 it will never be balanced because the game balance was never intended for this kind of game mode as result the meta for this vastly different then for 5 vs 5 . I also want to say don't trust metabattle on what is meta the PvP section became over the years a twitch fan base and people who put their sweet into new builds don't post their any more their builds because if they are good they will get nuked by Arena.NET in the next patch same goes for here or gw2mist and so on.

> @"melandru.3876" said: > > @"Wuffy.9732" said: > > > @"Shaogin.2679" said: > > > How so? Both require you to hit a target with a skill. The only difference is one skill is applying all the damage at once, while the other skill is applying that same damage over a set period of time. Just because burn Guard is stupid doesn't mean all condi damage builds are broken, just like an OP power damage build doesn't mean all power damage is broken. > > > > This look normal to you? https://i.imgur.com/zLPrCEy.png > > I have yet to meet any other condi class that comes close to 60k-80k burst damage. And it's all burning, lol. > > > > Besides the point, you are still right, damage is universal even though condition damage and power damage has small differences. But ignoring the fact that condiFB (or any class with powercreep) is obviously broken is only going to make people dread it more. Anet hasn't done a proper balance patch in months. > > > > > > ahahahahahaa > > a pve screen about a firebrand (what has that to do with dh??) that can get high numbers by using ashes of the just compared to dh who obviously can't > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ashes_of_the_Just not once, but 3 times! > > 1 cast of ashes is 15 (3 stacks on 5 players) burn stacks, for free. it's pretty clear what multiple casts of this does, and how unrelated to dh that is > > 1) prestack boons as usual, f1 skill 5 for ashes of the just. renewed focus to reset f1. again f1 skill 5 for ashes of the just (second cast) > 2) press f at mistlock. swap out renewed focus for feel my wrath > 3) start the fight with 2 casts of ashes of the just allready on group > 4) follow rotation as usual > > if anything in your complaint would be true, it's how overtuned resseting cooldowns with the mistlock is. > anet is aware, if you have seen how they handled sunqua peaks where you can't prestack boons anymore (but you can still prestack skill effects like ashes of the just wink wink) > > have you not seen the snow crows mursaat overseer record, where the "chosen" firebrand who was the lucky one to get the ashes of the just stacks from EVERYONE had 100k+ burn ticks The full 12 stack of ashes of the just might be the difference between 60k and 80k burst dmg but it is still a lot comparable to Soulbeast in PvE and this as condi build which is still absurd and this is not the only balance problem with it in PvE on many bosses the build does well or lot better then power build in the fractals like sirens reef, mai trin , deepstone , twilight oasis everywhere where small hitboxes a are thing and/or the boss running around(or you are forced to run around). = 30% to 100% more dmg. This also include some other cm bosses. In PvP I tested it yesterday yes you are a glass canon but you can instantly melt your enemies if you partner has good cc.

> @"melandru.3876" said: > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > Probably got Dragon Maw into SoJ, I typically get about 15-16 burns on me from just that happening. > > > > Only Stability or Resistance can reliably save you from that. > > but how? > traited sword of justice is 4 hits= 4 burn stacks > maw = 1 hit > > say the ideal situation the dh needed only 1 hit to proc f1 because he build up some f1 passive previously. > traited f1 reduces the number of hits needed from 5 to 3 to proc f1. > > so maw hit, hits once. 1 burn stack. soj hits 4 times = 1 more burn stack from f1 we are at 2 burn stacks now, + 4 from hitting all 4 hits with sword of justice. > that is 6 burn stacks and nowhere the 15-16 you claim. > > sounds like people here just blow up numbers to get a build that is meme nerfed because they "must fight on point" and take all hits. > > dh is only a "threat" is you allow it to free cast when you cluster/blob as you give it more targets to hit. if you allow that you allready lost the game Your math is wrong I think SoJ gives 1 burning every 1 sec. I think you can have up to 4 of them . This mean 1 sec = 1 burn ( 1 SoJ) 2 sec = 3 burns (2 SoJ) 3 sec = 6 burns (3 SoJ) 4sec = 10 burns (4 SoJ) 5 sec = 14 burns (4 SoJ) This when I ignore the duration of the burns( 5 sec checked) but after this you get 4 burns every sec so long the SoJ stays and I still have the feeling this is too less possible the SoJ hit you multiply times a sec. This skill is basically the main source for burst dmg on all dps guard builds. What you also have is 5 burns from torch and when you are a cFB 5 more burns (3s) from condi mantra and 4-5 burns from book 1 in 5 sec added all up is at least 27 burns in 5 sec . if you throw away renewed focus you could squeeze this in 3-4s but this is really the max what it is possible I can also add in PvE the burst dmg from cFB spikes from really good players at 80k dps in the burst phase so I don't know what they nerfed in PvP compare to PvE so it not that unrealistic if you are cfb

> @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > So... It's screenshot reading time: > > > Burn: 48690 damage; 32 hits > > > Translated, it mean that you took 32 hits of burn which mean that the 48k were applied over 32 seconds for an average burn damage of 1521.5 damage per seconds. > > > > > > > ... what? Ok apparently not everyone knows how condis work in death recap. When it says 32 hits, that doesnt mean 32 *ticks of damage*. Thats means he took damage from 32 stacks of burn in total. If you were to get 100 stacks of burning applied to you, downing you in one tick, and finishing you off in another tick, that wouldnt show as 2 hits. It would show as *200* hits. So no, its actually 15600 damage per second-ish. > > > > > It also mean that technically, over those 3 seconds you claim were enough to down you, you took an average of 4563.5 damage which may be close to half your total health pool if you are an thief, guardian or elementalist without any ressource investment into vitality. (Obviously those number are as unrealistic as your own because they do not take into account possible burn burst, like your's does not take into account the simple fact that you took those 48k over 32 hits but it does have the merit to put things into perspective). > > > > > > > Same mistake as above. He took an average of 45635 instead. Thats more than the entire lifetotal of a full tank warrior. Significantly more, actually. > > > > > Cheer up, over the same time frame, you could have taken the same amount of power damage from any AA in game. > > > > Same mistake once more. In reality, no power build can maintain 15k dps over 3 seconds. Im not sure any can even reach 30k burst in 2 seconds. > > For that to make sense, each stack of burn would do 1520 damage per tick (48690/32 = 1520). > > There is no build possible in PvP that can make a single burn stack tick for that much. Not even 1/3rd of that amount. > > Anyone looking at the Death Breakdown for serious analysis is never going to learn anything useful. It's buggy asf. > > If we assume he really did take that much damage over 3 seconds, that must mean he had 30+ burn stacks on him. To reach that, a DH has to hit you 90, yes, NINETY, times. How are you managing to get hit 90 times in such a short window? And if a power build hit you 90 times, would you expect to still be alive? I don't think it is 3s more 5-6 s this is possible with an cFB because at least the PvE built has 4 source of burning which are casted at the same time and SoJ does burning and they stack on each other. Yes there are more sec needed to prep this where did the guard get the might for this and what was the other built in this match up and why he/she didn't jump out of SoJ . From the looks of it the other where a Mirage

> @"Khalisto.5780" said: > 6 secs attunements cd > > This would increase the amount of passive procs and more room to cover your kitten from rotation mistakes > > Weaver and tempest remain the same The reasons this won't work are : A) Like weaver it would have problems with stable might generation B) You need 3 dps trait lines currently only 2 works for power and 2 works for condi the rest is garbage (at least for pvp)atm c) The elite specs like the other already said of ele have absurd modifiers. Especially weaver. 10% more dmg for under swiftness , 10% more dmg for full attunements, 15% more crit chance(in pvp) for the enemy being weakened. Actually the last part is really hard to calculate what it really means and depends a bit on the view point and specs. In optimal case it just means 'only' 15% more dmg what this actually implies are the crit modifier which ele has which is 250% on top of it = 3.5x. This is all with probability but in average this means then 37.5% more dmg . This is because you getting 15% closer to the 250% . I should note this is only true so long you are not cap on the 100% crit chance. Now the total dmg of weaver modifiers because of this also complicated because you have now the base dmg and the crit dmg increases by 20% and then the increased crit chance = > 20% + (250%* (1+20%)*15%) = 65% (ups the check calculation gave me 63% but it should be around there ) So What you can do is : A) Return stable might generation to fire trait line B) Arcane trait line has the problem that dmg only increase with each boon but it is properly the best option for a 3th trait line . Because of all the boon nerfs this became obsolete what sometimes is used is Elemental surge for an cc build(control wizard) or with Arcane might for pre buff in PvE. The other trait option would be water yes it has a dmg modifier in it but in PvP it is only 5% people complained about it had 10% before actually people have no clue what they complained about back then. The same way the 15% more crit chance increase dps drastically here it get reduced drastically because of the missing fury boon -50%(if you include the crit modifier again) . on top of this it was the mender built (swordmender) this further precession were gone . So it actually needed a boost not a reduction. C) The crit modifier in weaver is a mess , yes it basically makes the weaver rota what it is but only partially they still give you swiftness. My suggestion long ago was to remove the trait and move into core and give then basically each weapons set a way to apply weakened or forgot the mechanic and only change the crit chance. Yes this would also mean to rebalance Tempest(which then has also access to this) . What I suggested instead of the trait would be 15% more dmg from water attacks. What also noticeable is some PvE fractal builds don't use this trait at all which makes the trait very questionable. Basically you need to this to make a core ele viable

> @"Jekkt.6045" said: > > @"Lord of the Fire.6870" said: > > > @"felix.2386" said: > > > you do realize what started the killing of gw2 pvp was the start of the power creep from HoT release, right? > > > > Yes they increased the dmg with the HoT specs but they nerfed a lot of them at then end of HoT again also the new elite specs gave the classes new identity. The point is people got used to the builds and how they work but whit PoF everything get into a over drive modus Arena.NET pushed for faster gameplay and they wanted their new elite specs better then they old (which they also accomplished by nerfing the old). > > They pretty much increased everything with HoT specs. shoutbow, d/d ele and cele engi were quite tanky back then. during HoT beta i played a tournament on cele herald and it was more tanky than those 3 and absolutely destroyed them with the damage it dealt... turns out cele herald wasn't even good because marauder was just as tanky and dealt even more damage lol. > > fast forward to HoT release where scrapper was insanely tanky on a damage amulet while dealing 7k+ damage with hammer 2 and 4k+ with hammer block... or druid with 15k damage smokescale and 20k damage spiky pink dinosaur. core guard dropped out of the meta a long time before because of dd ele and shoutbow. then you get unkillable minstrel tempest that heals for 800k per game... but you know what? who needs healing if you have chrono making the whole team invul. > > while elite specs seemed nice at first glance, i wish we would have never gotten them. not only did they ruin balance forever, they made it apparent how rigid vanilla design was. ele will probably never get an elite spec with a non elemental class mechanic because they'd have to redo all skills on all weapons. > > what they should have done instead was adding new utility skill types and weapons (like they do with elite specs, just not tied to anything). and maybe new core traitlines or additional traits in existing traitlines. Well yes but they tuned it massively down multiply times now the game is for most players too tanky so that Arena removed the cele amulet(from their mindset side). I don't know why they removing amulets it is silly its not the reason why the game became more tanky . There is no way back to the good old days not without completely destroying the game which they partially already done with PvP. I also think you underestimate how the community makes a difference in vanilla most players were more casually with HoT Arena.Net aimed for more 'pro' players at least from the PvE content side so there are also more players who look into how you can optimize builds and team composition. This makes also for faster gameplay I know elite specs also gives more possibilities which can be exploited . Somehow I wonder why they went for skills fixed on weapons and then invent new weapon + new traitlines + new mechanics which gives easier access to something imbalanced because it has more option which are less obvious. But let me make on thing straight there wasn't everything okay with ~~the balance ~~ a lot of things in GW 2 before either core engi, and core ele are so bad words can't describe it.(all game modes) . I know some people will jump on it and scream I play that and I'm good with it believe me ... NO just NO There was the problem or is the fact that support builds always gives you an advantage if they exist in a MMORPG if you ban them it is exactly what is criticised in this thread. Actually they all live with it or not because you always have the option to swap its only in GW 2 such a mimimi that they push to nerf the support builds . There was some example about LoL in the other thread well you see players there know they need to play support and there isn't a discussion about it to begin with . Yes this here is an RPG LOL is not but this makes the point even more valid that means nerfing constantly builds let people leave or not playing for you support any more . I did suggest since we can't have pre-mades in ranked that we could make request to the server give me e.g a healer and thief in my group pretty please . There are also things like rating and 2 map metas which could be solved better but Arena.NET has other priorities.

> @"felix.2386" said: > you do realize what started the killing of gw2 pvp was the start of the power creep from HoT release, right? Yes they increased the dmg with the HoT specs but they nerfed a lot of them at then end of HoT again also the new elite specs gave the classes new identity. The point is people got used to the builds and how they work but whit PoF everything get into a over drive modus Arena.NET pushed for faster gameplay and they wanted their new elite specs better then they old (which they also accomplished by nerfing the old). What you got was an instead kill Mirage(out of stealth),pew pew Soulbeast, and a Deadeye who fires with a rifle like it is an MG , a Weaver with faster attunment and a trait line with 40%+ damage modifiers There were also paper,stone, scissor mechanic which was introduced on top Scourge with too much condi dmg , which then is countered by Heal Firebrand which then is countered by Spellbreaker. What really is to noticed is the PoF specs got mostly nerfed to the ground DPS Weaver went to trash tier because of might nerf, DPS Spellbreaker is unplayable in all game modes Heal Fb became also trash tier even under Weaver. Deadeye became also trash correct me if I'm wrong Mirage, Soulbeast, Scourge are not the over the top any more but doing fine Spellbreaker found his new destiny as healer. What really pops your eye is when you look at what ele Glyph of Elementals does a vanilla skill which were always considered trash no new trait which change it and compare it to HoT skills: Horn : Sand Squall 0.5s protection Earth Elemental 3.25 s protection As Tempest healer: Water overload 5k total heal Ice Elemental 7k total heal near instantly Which means we are in many aspects now under the vanilla balance. This the result of nerfing the hell out of the game for 2 years

thx solved

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > @"Lord of the Fire.6870" said: > > This was a straight up PvP nerf some troll always pushed for it on the board now at least Weaver is dead in PvP because of this. Developers didn't realize weaver is a high risk high reward built which keeps bunker builds in check by building up might during their I'm immune to dmg over time skill . There are skills which goes trough this but ele has only a cc on staff which does this so building up might is the only way to deal with them but until then you have to survive which isn't easy as ele. > > > > I actually said all this before and people properly said it back then. > > If anything, PvP is where flame expulsion is actually useful. You can't just camp fire and stack might anyway and the burst from crits on this skill are actually quite good when you can tack it on simply by rotating out of fire at the end of a big combination. The issue for me is that this effect is nowhere near strong enough to justify constantly losing 10 stacks of might in PvE and the "group benefit" of sharing might is not very...beneficial as compensation. In theory perhaps but the problem is in PvP Weaver are played as a solo class /roamer so the might goes often nowhere also its the same in PvP the lose doesn't compensate for the lose of nearly half of the DPS also the trait triggers very random so even if you want you can't use it. also the condi dmg from this trait is hard caped which made it absolute useless. As result Weaver did fall from meta build to last in the list in meta battle basically trash tier. Because of this I don't use the trait in PvP and I don't use Weaver I use the sigil (which stacks might ) and overload and other skills to stack might.