Spellbreaker vs Core Warrior for T4 Fractals/raids

[Arafel.6895]

Hello,

I was told that core warrior is generally better choice for T4 fractals? Is that true? If yes - why? And how is it for raids? When should i pick core warrior and when SpB?

 

Thank you :)

[cryorion.9532]

For T4s, when there is "No Pain No Gain" instability (enemies will get boons on hit every 20 seconds) or it's Molten Boss fractal, you want to use spellbreaker as it is great for removing boons if traited properly. You can even adjust build if you fight tons of mobs as dagger mainhand and kick are not enough against large amount of mobs (+ bubble has too high CD). Use core warrior for everything else.

 

In raids, if you are bannerslave power warrior, core is better. You can also take mace/mace for some nice CCs if needed. Spellbreaker is used for certain encounter (Dhuum) because of its elite skill for boon removal. Spellbreaker bannerslave isn't that good compared to core warrior bannerslave when there are no boons to be removed, also beacuse of 10 seconds weaponswap which makes the rotation kinda annoying.

[Oglaf.1074]

Bannerslave: Core

 

DPS: Spellbreaker

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

The fact that our most viable PvE build is known as "bannerslave" is depressing as heck.

[Oglaf.1074]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> The fact that our most viable PvE build is known as "bannerslave" is depressing as heck.

 

It is a blessing and a curse, really:

 

Guarantees us Warriors a constant Raid spot no matter how the meta shifts and evolves, but it is a dreadfully dull playstyle/build.

 

[Glider.5792]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > The fact that our most viable PvE build is known as "bannerslave" is depressing as heck.

>

> It is a blessing and a curse, really:

>

> Guarantees us Warriors a constant Raid spot no matter how the meta shifts and evolves, but it is a dreadfully dull playstyle/build.

>

 

I wouldnt say its dull. If we didnt need to bring banners, we would just replace them with signet/bullscharge. The rotation would not change at all (if we speak about core).

Dps warrior (Spellbreaker) is a different story a bit, but yet again, same playstyle.

[Arafel.6895]

Thanks :)

how much precision should i add when I change from core warrior to spb? How can i find out (so i guess % critical change) how much % critical change should I have? Would it be enought to change pendant from bersekerker to assassin?

[Oglaf.1074]

> @"Arafel.6895" said:

> Thanks :)

> how much precision should i add when I change from core warrior to spb? How can i find out (so i guess % critical change) how much % critical change should I have? Would it be enought to change pendant from bersekerker to assassin?

 

Really, you can’t go wrong with just full Berserker gear. The difference between min-maxing by mixing in Assassin isn’t that huge. Personally I just wear full Berserker with Chest and Leggings as Assassin most of the time.

 

You could probably check out Snowcrows’ website and their Warrior builds if you stil wanna bother with it and get the very best distribution.

 

 

[Zawn.9647]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > The fact that our most viable PvE build is known as "bannerslave" is depressing as heck.

>

> It is a blessing and a curse, really:

>

> Guarantees us Warriors a constant Raid spot no matter how the meta shifts and evolves, but it is a dreadfully dull playstyle/build.

>

 

how does it play? you're only there to place banners and doesnt even matter what you do afterwards?

or do we sacrifice weapon dps for cc/breakbars with mace?

[Glider.5792]

> @"Zawn.9647" said:

> > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > The fact that our most viable PvE build is known as "bannerslave" is depressing as heck.

> >

> > It is a blessing and a curse, really:

> >

> > Guarantees us Warriors a constant Raid spot no matter how the meta shifts and evolves, but it is a dreadfully dull playstyle/build.

> >

>

> how does it play? you're only there to place banners and doesnt even matter what you do afterwards?

> or do we sacrifice weapon dps for cc/breakbars with mace?

 

Warrior still does ALOT of dps (in pugs, you basicaly are the "DPS" if played properly). In fractals, there is alot of different build and weapon combos you use on warrior.

If you need CC you go with axe/axe + mace/mace.

If you dont need it you go axe/axe + greatsword.

Now if there is also "No pain no gain", there are ALOT of different possible options and builds to play, it just depends on the encounter and on your group. Like, with pugs i will most likely stick to dagger/axe + greatsword (possibly swap to mace/mace if realy needed, but its crap on spb), however with guild runs, there are soo many better stronger options, but they only work if the group is realy good.

 

Edit: Clearly this aint clear enough, this is regarding support warr(banners + tactics). If you want to play dps i suggest you dont play warr in fractals, there are ALOT better options.

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

> @"Glider.5792" said:

> > @"Zawn.9647" said:

> > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > The fact that our most viable PvE build is known as "bannerslave" is depressing as heck.

> > >

> > > It is a blessing and a curse, really:

> > >

> > > Guarantees us Warriors a constant Raid spot no matter how the meta shifts and evolves, but it is a dreadfully dull playstyle/build.

> > >

> >

> > how does it play? you're only there to place banners and doesnt even matter what you do afterwards?

> > or do we sacrifice weapon dps for cc/breakbars with mace?

>

> Warrior still does ALOT of dps (in pugs, you basicaly are the "DPS" if played properly). In fractals, there is alot of different build and weapon combos you use on warrior.

> If you need CC you go with axe/axe + mace/mace.

> If you dont need it you go axe/axe + greatsword.

> Now if there is also "No pain no gain", there are ALOT of different possible options and builds to play, it just depends on the encounter and on your group. Like, with pugs i will most likely stick to dagger/axe + greatsword (possibly swap to mace/mace if realy needed, but its crap on spb), however with guild runs, there are soo many better stronger options, but they only work if the group is realy good.

 

Never use off-hand mace, it's TERRIBLE. Use Mace/Axe and Axe/Dagger if you want CC. Go Dagger/Axe if you need boonstrip.

[Glider.5792]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > @"Zawn.9647" said:

> > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > The fact that our most viable PvE build is known as "bannerslave" is depressing as heck.

> > > >

> > > > It is a blessing and a curse, really:

> > > >

> > > > Guarantees us Warriors a constant Raid spot no matter how the meta shifts and evolves, but it is a dreadfully dull playstyle/build.

> > > >

> > >

> > > how does it play? you're only there to place banners and doesnt even matter what you do afterwards?

> > > or do we sacrifice weapon dps for cc/breakbars with mace?

> >

> > Warrior still does ALOT of dps (in pugs, you basicaly are the "DPS" if played properly). In fractals, there is alot of different build and weapon combos you use on warrior.

> > If you need CC you go with axe/axe + mace/mace.

> > If you dont need it you go axe/axe + greatsword.

> > Now if there is also "No pain no gain", there are ALOT of different possible options and builds to play, it just depends on the encounter and on your group. Like, with pugs i will most likely stick to dagger/axe + greatsword (possibly swap to mace/mace if realy needed, but its crap on spb), however with guild runs, there are soo many better stronger options, but they only work if the group is realy good.

>

> Never use off-hand mace, it's TERRIBLE. Use Mace/Axe and Axe/Dagger if you want CC. Go Dagger/Axe if you need boonstrip.

 

Please, dont try to correct me when it comes to warr in fractals.

Edit: PS, this is regarding support warr (banners + tactics), if you're smart you dont play dps warr in high-end fractals anyway.

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

> @"Glider.5792" said:

> > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > > @"Zawn.9647" said:

> > > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > > The fact that our most viable PvE build is known as "bannerslave" is depressing as heck.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is a blessing and a curse, really:

> > > > >

> > > > > Guarantees us Warriors a constant Raid spot no matter how the meta shifts and evolves, but it is a dreadfully dull playstyle/build.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > how does it play? you're only there to place banners and doesnt even matter what you do afterwards?

> > > > or do we sacrifice weapon dps for cc/breakbars with mace?

> > >

> > > Warrior still does ALOT of dps (in pugs, you basicaly are the "DPS" if played properly). In fractals, there is alot of different build and weapon combos you use on warrior.

> > > If you need CC you go with axe/axe + mace/mace.

> > > If you dont need it you go axe/axe + greatsword.

> > > Now if there is also "No pain no gain", there are ALOT of different possible options and builds to play, it just depends on the encounter and on your group. Like, with pugs i will most likely stick to dagger/axe + greatsword (possibly swap to mace/mace if realy needed, but its crap on spb), however with guild runs, there are soo many better stronger options, but they only work if the group is realy good.

> >

> > Never use off-hand mace, it's TERRIBLE. Use Mace/Axe and Axe/Dagger if you want CC. Go Dagger/Axe if you need boonstrip.

>

> Please, dont try to correct me when it comes to warr in fractals.

> Edit: PS, this is regarding support warr (banners + tactics), if you're smart you dont play dps warr in high-end fractals anyway.

 

Ah fair enough, I didn't realise you were talking about core. I personally would only use spellbreaker bannerslave without tactics. Empower Allies isn't worth gimping yourself by taking tactics, ultimately the DPS will be better if you just go discipline/strength spellbreaker and do rotations.

[Glider.5792]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > > > @"Zawn.9647" said:

> > > > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > > > The fact that our most viable PvE build is known as "bannerslave" is depressing as heck.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It is a blessing and a curse, really:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Guarantees us Warriors a constant Raid spot no matter how the meta shifts and evolves, but it is a dreadfully dull playstyle/build.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > how does it play? you're only there to place banners and doesnt even matter what you do afterwards?

> > > > > or do we sacrifice weapon dps for cc/breakbars with mace?

> > > >

> > > > Warrior still does ALOT of dps (in pugs, you basicaly are the "DPS" if played properly). In fractals, there is alot of different build and weapon combos you use on warrior.

> > > > If you need CC you go with axe/axe + mace/mace.

> > > > If you dont need it you go axe/axe + greatsword.

> > > > Now if there is also "No pain no gain", there are ALOT of different possible options and builds to play, it just depends on the encounter and on your group. Like, with pugs i will most likely stick to dagger/axe + greatsword (possibly swap to mace/mace if realy needed, but its crap on spb), however with guild runs, there are soo many better stronger options, but they only work if the group is realy good.

> > >

> > > Never use off-hand mace, it's TERRIBLE. Use Mace/Axe and Axe/Dagger if you want CC. Go Dagger/Axe if you need boonstrip.

> >

> > Please, dont try to correct me when it comes to warr in fractals.

> > Edit: PS, this is regarding support warr (banners + tactics), if you're smart you dont play dps warr in high-end fractals anyway.

>

> Ah fair enough, I didn't realise you were talking about core. I personally would only use spellbreaker bannerslave without tactics. Empower Allies isn't worth gimping yourself by taking tactics, ultimately the DPS will be better if you just go discipline/strength spellbreaker and do rotations.

 

Personal dps, most likely. Group dps, most likely not.

[Infusion.7149]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > @"Zawn.9647" said:

> > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > The fact that our most viable PvE build is known as "bannerslave" is depressing as heck.

> > > >

> > > > It is a blessing and a curse, really:

> > > >

> > > > Guarantees us Warriors a constant Raid spot no matter how the meta shifts and evolves, but it is a dreadfully dull playstyle/build.

> > > >

> > >

> > > how does it play? you're only there to place banners and doesnt even matter what you do afterwards?

> > > or do we sacrifice weapon dps for cc/breakbars with mace?

> >

> > Warrior still does ALOT of dps (in pugs, you basicaly are the "DPS" if played properly). In fractals, there is alot of different build and weapon combos you use on warrior.

> > If you need CC you go with axe/axe + mace/mace.

> > If you dont need it you go axe/axe + greatsword.

> > Now if there is also "No pain no gain", there are ALOT of different possible options and builds to play, it just depends on the encounter and on your group. Like, with pugs i will most likely stick to dagger/axe + greatsword (possibly swap to mace/mace if realy needed, but its crap on spb), however with guild runs, there are soo many better stronger options, but they only work if the group is realy good.

>

> Never use off-hand mace, it's TERRIBLE. Use Mace/Axe and Axe/Dagger if you want CC. Go Dagger/Axe if you need boonstrip.

 

I feel like calling offhand mace terrible is a gross exaggeration since the damage coefficient is 1.5 and cooldown 12s on the mace 4 skill and it provides 15 stacks of vulnerability. Sure it isn't a high DPS option but it also brings 3s knockdown CC if you are running 2 banners (relegating you to kick/bull's charge).

 

Axe mainhand + dagger offhand has no CC unless you consider cripple a strong CC.

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

> @"Infusion.7149" said:

> > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > > @"Zawn.9647" said:

> > > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > > The fact that our most viable PvE build is known as "bannerslave" is depressing as heck.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is a blessing and a curse, really:

> > > > >

> > > > > Guarantees us Warriors a constant Raid spot no matter how the meta shifts and evolves, but it is a dreadfully dull playstyle/build.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > how does it play? you're only there to place banners and doesnt even matter what you do afterwards?

> > > > or do we sacrifice weapon dps for cc/breakbars with mace?

> > >

> > > Warrior still does ALOT of dps (in pugs, you basicaly are the "DPS" if played properly). In fractals, there is alot of different build and weapon combos you use on warrior.

> > > If you need CC you go with axe/axe + mace/mace.

> > > If you dont need it you go axe/axe + greatsword.

> > > Now if there is also "No pain no gain", there are ALOT of different possible options and builds to play, it just depends on the encounter and on your group. Like, with pugs i will most likely stick to dagger/axe + greatsword (possibly swap to mace/mace if realy needed, but its crap on spb), however with guild runs, there are soo many better stronger options, but they only work if the group is realy good.

> >

> > Never use off-hand mace, it's TERRIBLE. Use Mace/Axe and Axe/Dagger if you want CC. Go Dagger/Axe if you need boonstrip.

>

> I feel like calling offhand mace terrible is a gross exaggeration since the damage coefficient is 1.5 and cooldown 12s on the mace 4 skill and it provides 15 stacks of vulnerability. Sure it isn't a high DPS option but it also brings 3s knockdown CC if you are running 2 banners (relegating you to kick/bull's charge).

>

> Axe mainhand + dagger offhand has no CC unless you consider cripple a strong CC.

 

Mace Burst and Mace 3 with Kick/Bull's Charge is enough CC.

[Glider.5792]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > @"Infusion.7149" said:

> > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > > > @"Zawn.9647" said:

> > > > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > > > The fact that our most viable PvE build is known as "bannerslave" is depressing as heck.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It is a blessing and a curse, really:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Guarantees us Warriors a constant Raid spot no matter how the meta shifts and evolves, but it is a dreadfully dull playstyle/build.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > how does it play? you're only there to place banners and doesnt even matter what you do afterwards?

> > > > > or do we sacrifice weapon dps for cc/breakbars with mace?

> > > >

> > > > Warrior still does ALOT of dps (in pugs, you basicaly are the "DPS" if played properly). In fractals, there is alot of different build and weapon combos you use on warrior.

> > > > If you need CC you go with axe/axe + mace/mace.

> > > > If you dont need it you go axe/axe + greatsword.

> > > > Now if there is also "No pain no gain", there are ALOT of different possible options and builds to play, it just depends on the encounter and on your group. Like, with pugs i will most likely stick to dagger/axe + greatsword (possibly swap to mace/mace if realy needed, but its crap on spb), however with guild runs, there are soo many better stronger options, but they only work if the group is realy good.

> > >

> > > Never use off-hand mace, it's TERRIBLE. Use Mace/Axe and Axe/Dagger if you want CC. Go Dagger/Axe if you need boonstrip.

> >

> > I feel like calling offhand mace terrible is a gross exaggeration since the damage coefficient is 1.5 and cooldown 12s on the mace 4 skill and it provides 15 stacks of vulnerability. Sure it isn't a high DPS option but it also brings 3s knockdown CC if you are running 2 banners (relegating you to kick/bull's charge).

> >

> > Axe mainhand + dagger offhand has no CC unless you consider cripple a strong CC.

>

> Mace Burst and Mace 3 with Kick/Bull's Charge is enough CC.

 

Yet again, depends on the encounter. Spb mainhand mace is trash cc, using bull's charge would make up for it, but since you're using banners, that is not an option. And if you will replace kick with bullscharge, why are you even playing strength then, or well.. dps spellbreaker....

Edit: Regarding my mention of "why are you even playing strength then", ussualy the spb "banner" warrior runs Strength-Tactics-Spb, however from my testing, Discipline-Tactics-Spb does even or better on some, if not all encounters. Still testing it, but it is giving insane results.

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

> @"Glider.5792" said:

> > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > @"Infusion.7149" said:

> > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > > > > @"Zawn.9647" said:

> > > > > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > > > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > > > > The fact that our most viable PvE build is known as "bannerslave" is depressing as heck.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It is a blessing and a curse, really:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Guarantees us Warriors a constant Raid spot no matter how the meta shifts and evolves, but it is a dreadfully dull playstyle/build.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > how does it play? you're only there to place banners and doesnt even matter what you do afterwards?

> > > > > > or do we sacrifice weapon dps for cc/breakbars with mace?

> > > > >

> > > > > Warrior still does ALOT of dps (in pugs, you basicaly are the "DPS" if played properly). In fractals, there is alot of different build and weapon combos you use on warrior.

> > > > > If you need CC you go with axe/axe + mace/mace.

> > > > > If you dont need it you go axe/axe + greatsword.

> > > > > Now if there is also "No pain no gain", there are ALOT of different possible options and builds to play, it just depends on the encounter and on your group. Like, with pugs i will most likely stick to dagger/axe + greatsword (possibly swap to mace/mace if realy needed, but its crap on spb), however with guild runs, there are soo many better stronger options, but they only work if the group is realy good.

> > > >

> > > > Never use off-hand mace, it's TERRIBLE. Use Mace/Axe and Axe/Dagger if you want CC. Go Dagger/Axe if you need boonstrip.

> > >

> > > I feel like calling offhand mace terrible is a gross exaggeration since the damage coefficient is 1.5 and cooldown 12s on the mace 4 skill and it provides 15 stacks of vulnerability. Sure it isn't a high DPS option but it also brings 3s knockdown CC if you are running 2 banners (relegating you to kick/bull's charge).

> > >

> > > Axe mainhand + dagger offhand has no CC unless you consider cripple a strong CC.

> >

> > Mace Burst and Mace 3 with Kick/Bull's Charge is enough CC.

>

> Yet again, depends on the encounter. Spb mainhand mace is trash cc, using bull's charge would make up for it, but since you're using banners, that is not an option. And if you will replace kick with bullscharge, why are you even playing strength then, or well.. dps spellbreaker....

> Edit: Regarding my mention of "why are you even playing strength then", ussualy the spb "banner" warrior runs Strength-Tactics-Spb, however from my testing, Discipline-Tactics-Spb does even or better on some, if not all encounters. Still testing it, but it is giving insane results.

 

Tbh I'd usually just run one banner, usually power/condition. Keeping it close to DPS Spellbreaker as much as possible with one banner. Maybe your comp wouldn't allow this but I perform my rotations fast so for me we would lose out on a lot of DPS if I had to baby sit two banners and destroy my rotation.

[Glider.5792]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > @"Infusion.7149" said:

> > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > > > > > @"Zawn.9647" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > > > > > The fact that our most viable PvE build is known as "bannerslave" is depressing as heck.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It is a blessing and a curse, really:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Guarantees us Warriors a constant Raid spot no matter how the meta shifts and evolves, but it is a dreadfully dull playstyle/build.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > how does it play? you're only there to place banners and doesnt even matter what you do afterwards?

> > > > > > > or do we sacrifice weapon dps for cc/breakbars with mace?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Warrior still does ALOT of dps (in pugs, you basicaly are the "DPS" if played properly). In fractals, there is alot of different build and weapon combos you use on warrior.

> > > > > > If you need CC you go with axe/axe + mace/mace.

> > > > > > If you dont need it you go axe/axe + greatsword.

> > > > > > Now if there is also "No pain no gain", there are ALOT of different possible options and builds to play, it just depends on the encounter and on your group. Like, with pugs i will most likely stick to dagger/axe + greatsword (possibly swap to mace/mace if realy needed, but its crap on spb), however with guild runs, there are soo many better stronger options, but they only work if the group is realy good.

> > > > >

> > > > > Never use off-hand mace, it's TERRIBLE. Use Mace/Axe and Axe/Dagger if you want CC. Go Dagger/Axe if you need boonstrip.

> > > >

> > > > I feel like calling offhand mace terrible is a gross exaggeration since the damage coefficient is 1.5 and cooldown 12s on the mace 4 skill and it provides 15 stacks of vulnerability. Sure it isn't a high DPS option but it also brings 3s knockdown CC if you are running 2 banners (relegating you to kick/bull's charge).

> > > >

> > > > Axe mainhand + dagger offhand has no CC unless you consider cripple a strong CC.

> > >

> > > Mace Burst and Mace 3 with Kick/Bull's Charge is enough CC.

> >

> > Yet again, depends on the encounter. Spb mainhand mace is trash cc, using bull's charge would make up for it, but since you're using banners, that is not an option. And if you will replace kick with bullscharge, why are you even playing strength then, or well.. dps spellbreaker....

> > Edit: Regarding my mention of "why are you even playing strength then", ussualy the spb "banner" warrior runs Strength-Tactics-Spb, however from my testing, Discipline-Tactics-Spb does even or better on some, if not all encounters. Still testing it, but it is giving insane results.

>

> Tbh I'd usually just run one banner, usually power/condition. Keeping it close to DPS Spellbreaker as much as possible with one banner. Maybe your comp wouldn't allow this but I perform my rotations fast so for me we would lose out on a lot of DPS if I had to baby sit two banners and destroy my rotation.

 

You need to start thinking about your group, not about yourself. Fractals are group content. The reason why support warrior is soo good is because it increases group dps soo much. If you want to play dps, dont take any banners at all, but also make sure to not advertise yourself as a "support warrior".

 

PS. Discipline banner is better, people make their build around all available buffs, without the discipline banner, they will not cap 100% crit chance.

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

> @"Glider.5792" said:

> > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > @"Infusion.7149" said:

> > > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > > > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Zawn.9647" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > > > > > > The fact that our most viable PvE build is known as "bannerslave" is depressing as heck.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > It is a blessing and a curse, really:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Guarantees us Warriors a constant Raid spot no matter how the meta shifts and evolves, but it is a dreadfully dull playstyle/build.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > how does it play? you're only there to place banners and doesnt even matter what you do afterwards?

> > > > > > > > or do we sacrifice weapon dps for cc/breakbars with mace?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Warrior still does ALOT of dps (in pugs, you basicaly are the "DPS" if played properly). In fractals, there is alot of different build and weapon combos you use on warrior.

> > > > > > > If you need CC you go with axe/axe + mace/mace.

> > > > > > > If you dont need it you go axe/axe + greatsword.

> > > > > > > Now if there is also "No pain no gain", there are ALOT of different possible options and builds to play, it just depends on the encounter and on your group. Like, with pugs i will most likely stick to dagger/axe + greatsword (possibly swap to mace/mace if realy needed, but its crap on spb), however with guild runs, there are soo many better stronger options, but they only work if the group is realy good.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Never use off-hand mace, it's TERRIBLE. Use Mace/Axe and Axe/Dagger if you want CC. Go Dagger/Axe if you need boonstrip.

> > > > >

> > > > > I feel like calling offhand mace terrible is a gross exaggeration since the damage coefficient is 1.5 and cooldown 12s on the mace 4 skill and it provides 15 stacks of vulnerability. Sure it isn't a high DPS option but it also brings 3s knockdown CC if you are running 2 banners (relegating you to kick/bull's charge).

> > > > >

> > > > > Axe mainhand + dagger offhand has no CC unless you consider cripple a strong CC.

> > > >

> > > > Mace Burst and Mace 3 with Kick/Bull's Charge is enough CC.

> > >

> > > Yet again, depends on the encounter. Spb mainhand mace is trash cc, using bull's charge would make up for it, but since you're using banners, that is not an option. And if you will replace kick with bullscharge, why are you even playing strength then, or well.. dps spellbreaker....

> > > Edit: Regarding my mention of "why are you even playing strength then", ussualy the spb "banner" warrior runs Strength-Tactics-Spb, however from my testing, Discipline-Tactics-Spb does even or better on some, if not all encounters. Still testing it, but it is giving insane results.

> >

> > Tbh I'd usually just run one banner, usually power/condition. Keeping it close to DPS Spellbreaker as much as possible with one banner. Maybe your comp wouldn't allow this but I perform my rotations fast so for me we would lose out on a lot of DPS if I had to baby sit two banners and destroy my rotation.

>

> You need to start thinking about your group, not about yourself. Fractals are group content. The reason why support warrior is soo good is because it increases group dps soo much. If you want to play dps, dont take any banners at all, but also make sure to not advertise yourself as a "support warrior".

>

> PS. Discipline banner is better, people make their build around all available buffs, without the discipline banner, they will not cap 100% crit chance.

 

I am, I have a banner! But what I'm saying is my personal DPS, through proper rotations and build, gives the group greater DPS, than what running one more banner would give the group. My personal DPS through this build gives higher group DPS than if I used two banners and messed my rotation. So I am thinking of the group.

 

Edit: I use discipline banner too. It depends on people's stats and build which I will bring.

[Glider.5792]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > > @"Infusion.7149" said:

> > > > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Glider.5792" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Zawn.9647" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > The fact that our most viable PvE build is known as "bannerslave" is depressing as heck.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > It is a blessing and a curse, really:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Guarantees us Warriors a constant Raid spot no matter how the meta shifts and evolves, but it is a dreadfully dull playstyle/build.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > how does it play? you're only there to place banners and doesnt even matter what you do afterwards?

> > > > > > > > > or do we sacrifice weapon dps for cc/breakbars with mace?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Warrior still does ALOT of dps (in pugs, you basicaly are the "DPS" if played properly). In fractals, there is alot of different build and weapon combos you use on warrior.

> > > > > > > > If you need CC you go with axe/axe + mace/mace.

> > > > > > > > If you dont need it you go axe/axe + greatsword.

> > > > > > > > Now if there is also "No pain no gain", there are ALOT of different possible options and builds to play, it just depends on the encounter and on your group. Like, with pugs i will most likely stick to dagger/axe + greatsword (possibly swap to mace/mace if realy needed, but its crap on spb), however with guild runs, there are soo many better stronger options, but they only work if the group is realy good.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Never use off-hand mace, it's TERRIBLE. Use Mace/Axe and Axe/Dagger if you want CC. Go Dagger/Axe if you need boonstrip.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I feel like calling offhand mace terrible is a gross exaggeration since the damage coefficient is 1.5 and cooldown 12s on the mace 4 skill and it provides 15 stacks of vulnerability. Sure it isn't a high DPS option but it also brings 3s knockdown CC if you are running 2 banners (relegating you to kick/bull's charge).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Axe mainhand + dagger offhand has no CC unless you consider cripple a strong CC.

> > > > >

> > > > > Mace Burst and Mace 3 with Kick/Bull's Charge is enough CC.

> > > >

> > > > Yet again, depends on the encounter. Spb mainhand mace is trash cc, using bull's charge would make up for it, but since you're using banners, that is not an option. And if you will replace kick with bullscharge, why are you even playing strength then, or well.. dps spellbreaker....

> > > > Edit: Regarding my mention of "why are you even playing strength then", ussualy the spb "banner" warrior runs Strength-Tactics-Spb, however from my testing, Discipline-Tactics-Spb does even or better on some, if not all encounters. Still testing it, but it is giving insane results.

> > >

> > > Tbh I'd usually just run one banner, usually power/condition. Keeping it close to DPS Spellbreaker as much as possible with one banner. Maybe your comp wouldn't allow this but I perform my rotations fast so for me we would lose out on a lot of DPS if I had to baby sit two banners and destroy my rotation.

> >

> > You need to start thinking about your group, not about yourself. Fractals are group content. The reason why support warrior is soo good is because it increases group dps soo much. If you want to play dps, dont take any banners at all, but also make sure to not advertise yourself as a "support warrior".

> >

> > PS. Discipline banner is better, people make their build around all available buffs, without the discipline banner, they will not cap 100% crit chance.

>

> I am, I have a banner! But what I'm saying is my personal DPS, through proper rotations and build, gives the group greater DPS, than what running one more banner would give the group. My personal DPS through this build gives higher group DPS than if I used two banners and messed my rotation. So I am thinking of the group.

>

> Edit: I use discipline banner too. It depends on people's stats and build which I will bring.

 

Support warrior also uses Tactics traitline, which makes "DPS build" (mace/axe + axe/dagger) impossible/useless. And no, it does not bring higher group dps.