WvW Content Updates?

[Opopanax.1803]

Karnasis, you won't get him to see your view. He is black and white vision about what he think works/doesn't. No one else has the clarity that he does on any issues in the game. I mean, if you don't run the specific linked build he gives you, you are kicked...he literally had everything figured out about this game in ave and what the right answer is. DBL is just another one of those things: You won't convince him.

[Etheri.5406]

It's fun to argue when bugs, mismatches and balance issues which I can PROVE are solved by "I don't recognise these issues because I don't see them happen"; while at the same time you turn around and tell me that high-end wvw guilds quit the game (???) because they couldn't navigate the map.

 

While the map literally had 400+ ping for 30 minutes every 2 hours for months, half the objectives weren't worth looking at because you could walk in AND you had to let the event every 2 hours finish to stop the lag; which also opened all objectives and any idea of balance and fights went out of the window.

 

The good WvW guilds moved on because they realised anet was clueless about WvW and had no intention of maintaining the mode. Fast forward and here we are : no update since before PoF, desert bl still non functional and WvW population in a constant decline.

 

3 desert bls can't be balanced because as I clearly stated - there is no progression of difficulty through PPT in desert bl the way there is on alpine. The three sides themselves are NOT balanced. Oh right, another thing you chose to ignore because "you don't see it happen" and you're sure forcing everyone to play on the map will leave you with players that agree. I don't doubt you're right eventually, everyone else will leave. Goodluck with the consequences it brings ;)

[Karnasis.6892]

 

> @"Etheri.5406" said:

> It's fun to argue when bugs, mismatches and balance issues which I can PROVE are solved by "I don't recognise these issues because I don't see them happen"; while at the same time you turn around and tell me that high-end wvw guilds quit the game (???) because they couldn't navigate the map.

 

Here on NA that consistently happened that people couldn't navigate the map. I still see people getting lost to this day. Hell I was one of the people frustrated with the map originally becuase of how frustrating it was to navigate with the stupid barriers and not having a fair chance to explore it. Once the barriers were gone it wasn't a big deal to explore. And now it's my favorite map. The issues you are complaining about as far as the falling through the ground are so rare in occurance that again, I didn't know about them until your post. Does it suck, sure. Does it mean the DBL's are broken. Nope. Port to spawn and move on, and if they ever fix it.... great but if not... meh?

 

> While the map literally had 400+ ping for 30 minutes every 2 hours for months, half the objectives weren't worth looking at because you could walk in AND you had to let the event every 2 hours finish to stop the lag; which also opened all objectives and any idea of balance and fights went out of the window.

 

And then they removed the event, making the DBL's a great place to play and 400+ pings went away. Problem solved.

 

> The good WvW guilds moved on because they realised anet was clueless about WvW and had no intention of maintaining the mode. Fast forward and here we are : no update since before PoF, desert bl still non functional and WvW population in a constant decline.

 

What do you expect, over the last couple of years the only update that wasn't universally hated was the Ascended/Legendary armor update (with the legendary backpack). And even that had people in an uproar.

 

Gliding was a 50/50 split initially and now most people are okay with it, but there are still some folks that feel it needs taken out for their "fights".

 

And a lot of the minor changes or attempts to shake up the WvW scene beyond balance has been met with adverse disdain. I'm not surprised we don't get more often updates

 

> 3 desert bls can't be balanced because as I clearly stated - there is no progression of difficulty through PPT in desert bl the way there is on alpine. The three sides themselves are NOT balanced. Oh right, another thing you chose to ignore because "you don't see it happen" and you're sure forcing everyone to play on the map will leave you with players that agree. I don't doubt you're right eventually, everyone else will leave. Goodluck with the consequences it brings ;)

 

If everyone has to play on the DBL, everyone has to attack somethings >.> That's why it's balanced.

[Etheri.5406]

> @"Karnasis.6892" said:

>

> > @"Etheri.5406" said:

> > It's fun to argue when bugs, mismatches and balance issues which I can PROVE are solved by "I don't recognise these issues because I don't see them happen"; while at the same time you turn around and tell me that high-end wvw guilds quit the game (???) because they couldn't navigate the map.

>

> Here on NA that consistently happened that people couldn't navigate the map. I still see people getting lost to this day. Hell I was one of the people frustrated with the map originally becuase of how frustrating it was to navigate with the stupid barriers and not having a fair chance to explore it. Once the barriers were gone it wasn't a big deal to explore. And now it's my favorite map. The issues you are complaining about as far as the falling through the ground are so rare in occurance that again, I didn't know about them until your post. Does it suck, sure. Does it mean the DBL's are broken. Nope. Port to spawn and move on, and if they ever fix it.... great but if not... meh?

 

At no point did I mention the map being bad because players couldn't navigate it.

I do think it's sad that problems YOU don't encounter or know about are suddenly not problems anymore. One of my screenshots is me falling through the floor in a T3 garri with EWP up. "Oh yeah just go back to spawn and do it again because WHOOPSEY". Not an issue because it's not happening frequently enough in T4 NA. Even tho I can show screenshots of it happening MORE THAN ONCE TO ME which are casually denied. But the map is too hard to navigate.

 

> If everyone has to play on the DBL, everyone has to attack somethings >.> That's why it's balanced.

 

Yeah I'm done. You don't know what balance means. You don't grasp the basics of progressing difficulty as you progress across the map.

 

"Everyone has to attack, everyone has to play desert bl, so it must be balanced" is about as logically sound as saying "there's a 1/2 chance I guess the correct card from a 52 deck. Either I guess correctly or I don't. See, clearly a 1/2 chance!"

 

For the record, I'm not writing my explanation for you as you'll tangentially ignore it or move past with 10/10 sound reasoning but i'll happily try to explain in the hopes someone grasps it.

 

You want a map to have OBJECTIVES which several (at least 2) sides are willing to contest. Attackers / defenders. The attacking side is always at a disadvantage compared to the defending side. Where they attack and what they attack determines howmuch "disadvantage" they have.

 

You want a series of different difficulties, preferably naturally progressing, so that if you have 2 groups with unequal strength (almost always in WvW); both sides can still interact in ways so that both sides can WIN. This is required because landslide victories and defeats are neither fun nor engaging for either side and quickly lead to a loss of players on both sides. So how does the map PROMOTE healthy gameplay? On each border - there's still 3 sides. A heavily favored home side, and two flanks. You want natural progression so that it's relatively easy for each side to cap and hold their side. You also want progressively more difficult objectives to attack.

 

This makes it so that, imagine 2 groups are very similar in strength. If you can't cap that T0 south tower, you obviously won't move on to bay.

If they cap that - meaning the advantage still lies with the attackers - they move on to progressively more difficult objectives. On these objectives at some point you'll have the defenders win or break even, which is the MAP ensuring both sides can compete even when on open field they could not. The map ensures the gameplay for both sides is engaging. This is why "fight" zergs aren't asking for no objectives on the maps outside of EVEN NUMBER GVG. Because no objectives would quite literally mean no fights, no interaction and no entertainment 99% of the time.

 

What DESERT does is not have this natural progression at all. It also has a very lacking balance between defending and attacking. What this makes is that, if I come on a desert bl fully held by the owner I'm not promoted to attack south tower, fire keep, north tower as would make sense. Instead the easiest objective is south tower, but capping it makes fire keep and garri MORE DIFFICULT. Even capping north tower doesn't help me in any way. Garri is as easy, if not easier, than fire keep. Yet once I cap garri - everything else on the map is quasi free. I am PROMOTED TO GO STRAIGHT FOR GARRI. That's a HUGE balance problem.

 

On another note, there is no slow progression of slightly more difficult objectives to fight around. Each of the keeps on desert map are insanely, insanely good at being defended with very few players and heavy siege. None of them can be trebbed or sieged from nearby towers, allowing you to bait out that sieging group in a meaningful way. What this does is promote constant STALEMATES. If you have two groups with about equal strength, they cannot attack objectives because ALL objectives are insanely defensive. Even if you cap an objective that you CAN take, there is no progression towards the next one. It's trivial to give up towers you don't care about. Even if you lose these insanely defensive structures, you can re-upgrade them in a matter of hours.

 

Which leads to the eternal status of red bl. A stalemate. If either group is even half as strong as the enemy group... well they can't fight anywhere open. They can't in meaningful ways fight over "simple" objectives that give both a good chance at winning. Yet still neither side can reasonably attempt eachothers keep if they have it. This promotes AVOIDING eachother to cap while defending with siege only.

 

I get it, if you find defending with siege highly fun then that's great! Right!

Except where in reality, it means the attackers don't bother unless they get a blob that easily rolls over you, at which point they come farm you, flip everything and leave again. That's the playstyle desert promotes : stalling until one side is SO much stronger even defending desert bl keeps won't save you, and then getting rolled. It doesn't allow two groups to actively play against eachother on the map promoting them to interact where both sides can win and thus have fun. It promotes both sides to AVOID EACHOTHER outside of strictly defending until one side can completely roll over the other side.

 

"yeah but both sides have to attack so its balanced." No, both sides can go to a structure to either suicide or get wiped by siege without even being able to get in unless they're SO MUCH STRONGER it's not even fun to defend against. I'm sure in T4 na people feed you bags regardless, but it's not healthy. It promotes population inbalance and zerging down much smaller groups because that's what is required to attack against defenders. And there's NOTHING on the map that promotes creating an "even" scenario.

 

So eh. The map is balanced becauase everyone has to attack (?????) and my issues I prove with screenshots showing you it happens don't exist because you don't see them happen in T4 NA (????). There's no issues at all; except where appearantly the map is hard to navigate because that's the only issue you hear about (????). Sound reasoning.

[Crazy.6029]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> New borderlands are pretty unlikely at this point. They take a huge amount of time and resources. We have some new stuff for WvW planned, but I can't talk about it yet. I know you guys get tired of hearing that.

>

> Other new plans for WvW mainly contain new special events and continuing to revise existing things we'd like to make better.

 

The thing that I find puzzling is that new maps for pve come out all the time, so, what is the logic behind not adding new maps to wvw? I understand the Desert BLs was kind of a different sort of map that caused some players to reject it, but why not try again, maybe just get away from the whole desert, silverwastes style map and go another direction. Perhaps even different maps for different tiers. I just don't understand why they come out so often for pve and not for pvp modes. From my own personal perspective, it just seems that growing a population would be more beneficial than trying to balance an existing and arguably depleting population. I think with new maps it would appeal to different types of players just as it does now, some like desert borderlands others like alpine, some like eternal bg. Players play more and are more apt to play often when they are playing on new and their own style of map. This is just my own opinion.