Engi Rifle 4 Bug

[Chaith.8256]

> @"FtoPScrub.5476" said:

> So they fix the 1500 range bug but decide kitten it lets make it 1200 range anyways....

>

>

> 

>

> Well, I guess you can't say that they are lazy, just completely out of touch.

 

Completely out of touch? Like 4 relevant Holo shaves... And core/Scrapper positive changes. Firming Overcharged Shot at 1200 is not unreasonable let alone completely out of touch in context of the patch.

[FtoPScrub.5476]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"FtoPScrub.5476" said:

> > So they fix the 1500 range bug but decide kitten it lets make it 1200 range anyways....

> >

> >

> > 

> >

> > Well, I guess you can't say that they are lazy, just completely out of touch.

>

> Completely out of touch? Like 4 relevant Holo shaves... And core/Scrapper positive changes. Firming Overcharged Shot at 1200 is not unreasonable let alone completely out of touch in context of the patch.

 

The shaves and buffs which were so minor that absolutely nothing has changed in the macro context of the meta? The same specs that were meta before are meta now. The specs that were garbage before, still garbage now. The meta is stale. Aside from the rise of rev nothing has changed since PoF release. Yet instead of making the changes that are needed they give us minor changes. Holo should have gotten zero buffs. The fact that it got any works against what they should have been doing, which is a complete toning down of the current meta and a complete toning down of powercreep.

[Chaith.8256]

> @"FtoPScrub.5476" said:

> > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > @"FtoPScrub.5476" said:

> > > So they fix the 1500 range bug but decide kitten it lets make it 1200 range anyways....

> > >

> > >

> > > 

> > >

> > > Well, I guess you can't say that they are lazy, just completely out of touch.

> >

> > Completely out of touch? Like 4 relevant Holo shaves... And core/Scrapper positive changes. Firming Overcharged Shot at 1200 is not unreasonable let alone completely out of touch in context of the patch.

>

> The shaves and buffs which were so minor that absolutely nothing has changed in the macro context of the meta? The same specs that were meta before are meta now. The specs that were garbage before, still garbage now. The meta is stale. Aside from the rise of rev nothing has changed since PoF release. Yet instead of making the changes that are needed they give us minor changes. Holo should have gotten zero buffs. The fact that it got any works against what they should have been doing, which is a complete toning down of the current meta and a complete toning down of powercreep.

 

Hmm.. Holo buffed? Technically Overcharged Shot range reduced from 1500 to 1200 with this patch.

 

Look, you can say it was a garbage patch because it didn't do enough, but it was all in the right direction. Reaper, Rev, Guardian staff DPS, all interesting changes which I don't believe you have tested extensively enough to claim that nothing has changed in the meta. The ranked Q I'm sure has totally changed, the AT meta will remain to be seen if Reaper/Rev which were already viable alternatives become more meta, in my opinion, they will be more meta. I had a Reaper AND Rev on my mAT team just passed, bro.

 

But to claim it's a backwards patch because Overcharged shot, when it was still an undeniable net shave to Holo, that's what is unreasonable

[FtoPScrub.5476]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"FtoPScrub.5476" said:

> > > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > > @"FtoPScrub.5476" said:

> > > > So they fix the 1500 range bug but decide kitten it lets make it 1200 range anyways....

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > >

> > > > Well, I guess you can't say that they are lazy, just completely out of touch.

> > >

> > > Completely out of touch? Like 4 relevant Holo shaves... And core/Scrapper positive changes. Firming Overcharged Shot at 1200 is not unreasonable let alone completely out of touch in context of the patch.

> >

> > The shaves and buffs which were so minor that absolutely nothing has changed in the macro context of the meta? The same specs that were meta before are meta now. The specs that were garbage before, still garbage now. The meta is stale. Aside from the rise of rev nothing has changed since PoF release. Yet instead of making the changes that are needed they give us minor changes. Holo should have gotten zero buffs. The fact that it got any works against what they should have been doing, which is a complete toning down of the current meta and a complete toning down of powercreep.

>

> Hmm.. Holo buffed? Technically Overcharged Shot range reduced from 1500 to 1200 with this patch.

 

Depends on whether or not you view bug fixes as balance changes

>

> Look, you can say it was a garbage patch because it didn't do enough, but it was all in the right direction. Reaper, Rev, Guardian staff DPS, all interesting changes which I don't believe you have tested extensively enough to claim that nothing has changed in the meta.

>

On the contrary, Herald needed no reworks whatsoever. Sword offhand should have been shaved and some PvE only % increases added for the PvE crowd. Why not rework Renegade? Scrapper? Berserker? Who was asking for a Herald rework? Why was thief given a 4s evade? Nobody asked for it. Why do Spirit weapons get buffs and not DH LB in spvp? The guard community has been rallying about LB buffs for sPvP and Anet's response are unwanted minor spirit weapon buffs(which they've done for multiple patches at this point). Why hasn't mirage ever gotten EM nerfs despite massive amounts of complaints about it? Just because they listen sometimes doesn't mean they're in touch with what people want, because it's obvious they've been ignoring some well requested changes and implementing things nobody asked for. No changes should be implemented that were not widely requested _until_ all the changes that were _requested_ are put in the game. That's why I think they're out of touch. You are free to disagree, but in my experience the past year has been incredibly poor balance wise.

 

>the AT meta will remain to be seen if Reaper/Rev which were already viable alternatives become more meta, in my opinion, they will be more meta. I had a Reaper AND Rev on my mAT team just passed, bro.

 

Regardless of what you believe is or isn't meta, the already-meta specs becoming more meta is exactly my point. If you are to believe that Reaper/Rev were already viable alternatives to the meta before this patch, why wouldn't you focus on bringing Scrapper to that level? Berserker? DH? Druid? Instead, both Reaper and Rev get major buffs, and the specs listed above get token changes despite being the ones that need the extensive buffs. But I suppose at this point I'm off topic

[Chaith.8256]

> @"FtoPScrub.5476" said:

 

> Depends on whether or not you view bug fixes as balance changes

 

No, it doesn't, whether its a bug fix that reduces performance, or a flat shave/nerf, there can be no possible way to misconstrue it as that patch buffing Holo like you're saying.

 

>That's why I think they're out of touch. You are free to disagree, but in my experience the past year has been incredibly poor balance wise.

 

I agree that ArenaNet is not prioritizing properly. On that we agree, I'd love to see Berserker Primal Burst/Scrapper/Renegade rework over Herald. However, in your first post you have claimed only that they were out of touch for the Overcharged Shot change.. which was obviously wrong.

 

> Regardless of what you believe is or isn't meta, the already-meta specs becoming more meta is exactly my point.

 

Yet that's __not__ what is happening and you have no examples of this happening from this patch.. this is exactly my point. Holo meta got minor shaves, Mirage meta got minor shaves, Reaper/Herald got buffs.. this improves overall metagame balance, and if you think already-meta specs are being BUFFED (more meta?) then I think you need to provide examples, because just saying this without this last patch's reality reflecting these claims is leaving me scratching my head

 

As much as you and I have the right to be annoyed that really broken things aren't being reworked in favor of already decent things, that's fair. But don't act like the patch was a negative. The balance got slightly better and all the changes were acceptable as far as I can tell so far.

 

 

[FtoPScrub.5476]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"FtoPScrub.5476" said:

>

> > Depends on whether or not you view bug fixes as balance changes

>

> No, it doesn't, whether its a bug fix that reduces performance, or a flat shave/nerf, there can be no possible way to misconstrue it as that patch buffing Holo like you're saying.

 

If you view a bug fix as a balance change should a bug not be fixed if it's deemed "balanced" then? If Anet were to determine that the now fixed Spellbreaker RR bug with balanced stance is balanced, should it be left alone? I mean, fixing it would be a balance change, would it not? Anet obviously views bug as just that - a bug that needs to be fixed and nothing more, which is why they went out of the way to explicitly state they fixed the Overcharged Shot bug then manually buffed it. To say that it is a nerf to Holo is misleading, because had they not buffed it to 1200, the skill would have been 600 range.

>

> >That's why I think they're out of touch. You are free to disagree, but in my experience the past year has been incredibly poor balance wise.

>

> I agree that ArenaNet is not prioritizing properly. On that we agree, I'd love to see Berserker Primal Burst/Scrapper/Renegade rework over Herald. However, in your first post you have claimed only that they were out of touch for the Overcharged Shot change.. which was obviously wrong.

>

I think you misconstrued my intent in that post. I do not believe they are out of touch because a single change. It was meant as a commentary to the overall state of their balance decisions of which the changes to that skill contributed to. I would still consider them to be out of touch even if OS was now 600 range.

 

> > Regardless of what you believe is or isn't meta, the already-meta specs becoming more meta is exactly my point.

>

> Yet that's __not__ what is happening and you have no examples of this happening from this patch.. this is exactly my point. Holo meta got minor shaves, Mirage meta got minor shaves, Reaper/Herald got buffs.. this improves overall metagame balance, and if you think already-meta specs are being BUFFED (more meta?) then I think you need to provide examples, because just saying this without this last patch's reality reflecting these claims is leaving me scratching my head

>

You don't consider Herald buffs to be buffs for an already meta spec? Added 4.5s evade for S/D thief? Staff buffs for Firebrand?

 

 

> As much as you and I have the right to be annoyed that really broken things aren't being reworked in favor of already decent things, that's fair. But don't act like the patch was a negative. The balance got slightly better and all the changes were acceptable as far as I can tell so far.

 

That's a fair statement. I would agree that many changes were fine, but many were not. There were too many unnecessary changes for me to consider the patch to be in the right direction.

 

 

[FyzE.3472]

Should rename the topic to "Engi rifle 4 feature"