Is It Possible...

[Hannelore.8153]

The game does have collision implemented, it was disabled at some point early on because it did more harm than good.

 

The only usefulness it has in a game like this is to add it to some skills to allow tanking by body-blocking. You can already block projectiles, but being able to block people for a short time to protect allies would help alot (area denial skills are quasi this).

[joneirikb.7506]

Couple of quick thoughts regarding Collision Detection:

 

* Combine with friendly fire to make for the most hilarious wvw experience ever! I want this even if just for a weekend! I'll buy every bit of popcorn the local store got for this, and I don't even like popcorn!

* Question for thought: Apply collision detection to dodges as well? Can you dodge through someone, or does the dodge stop when it crash into someone?

* Negative: Friendly body blocking stuff (trolls), like 2 players could probably be enough to body-block the gate opening to a tower/keep etc.

* Positive: Real disadvantage for zerg play, making the larger size comes with a much larger logistics to work (organization). If you can organize it, you'll do great, if you can't you collapse in on yourself. I'm ok with that.

* Opinion: I personally really do dislike how it looks with 20+ characters stacked into 1x1 meter.

* Positive: Encourages smaller groups, or many small groups working together, so they don't step on each others toes.

* Negative: Probably way too much work (programing), and too much load (servers) thus resulting in lag.

 

Overall I'd love to see this, test or not, but I won't hold my breath.

 

I think an interesting variant could be a de-buff for when you're inside another character, but that would likely hit the "Care-Bear-Rule" by violating the "You should always be happy to see another player (on your team)".

[Timarius.2895]

> @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> Couple of quick thoughts regarding Collision Detection:

>

> * Combine with friendly fire to make for the most hilarious wvw experience ever! I want this even if just for a weekend! I'll buy every bit of popcorn the local store got for this, and I don't even like popcorn!

> * Question for thought: Apply collision detection to dodges as well? Can you dodge through someone, or does the dodge stop when it crash into someone?

> * Negative: Friendly body blocking stuff (trolls), like 2 players could probably be enough to body-block the gate opening to a tower/keep etc.

> * Positive: Real disadvantage for zerg play, making the larger size comes with a much larger logistics to work (organization). If you can organize it, you'll do great, if you can't you collapse in on yourself. I'm ok with that.

> * Opinion: I personally really do dislike how it looks with 20+ characters stacked into 1x1 meter.

> * Positive: Encourages smaller groups, or many small groups working together, so they don't step on each others toes.

> * Negative: Probably way too much work (programing), and too much load (servers) thus resulting in lag.

>

> Overall I'd love to see this, test or not, but I won't hold my breath.

>

> I think an interesting variant could be a de-buff for when you're inside another character, but that would likely hit the "Care-Bear-Rule" by violating the "You should always be happy to see another player (on your team)".

 

Not sure how I feel on the idea of friendly fire. Whoops I just boon ripped a ton of my own team. Oh no, my Well of Power boons were just corrupted by my Well of Corruption! As for body blocking and dodging, generally you'd expect dodging to allow you to dive through somebody. This would alleviate the issues of people body blocking keep doors as well as allow suicide dive tactics.

 

As for the claims of way too much programming... are we ignoring the fact they went out of their way to make it so we can sit in chairs then replaced tons of chair placements in the world with usable entities? If ArenaNet felt this was a good idea, they could make it happen. As for the load on the servers, yes, this is a serious issue to deal with. Unfortunately I'm not entirely familiar with server architecture or lag compensation code, so I've got no solution for that besides beefier boxes.

[joneirikb.7506]

> @"Timarius.2895" said:

> > @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> > Couple of quick thoughts regarding Collision Detection:

> >

> > * Combine with friendly fire to make for the most hilarious wvw experience ever! I want this even if just for a weekend! I'll buy every bit of popcorn the local store got for this, and I don't even like popcorn!

> > * Question for thought: Apply collision detection to dodges as well? Can you dodge through someone, or does the dodge stop when it crash into someone?

> > * Negative: Friendly body blocking stuff (trolls), like 2 players could probably be enough to body-block the gate opening to a tower/keep etc.

> > * Positive: Real disadvantage for zerg play, making the larger size comes with a much larger logistics to work (organization). If you can organize it, you'll do great, if you can't you collapse in on yourself. I'm ok with that.

> > * Opinion: I personally really do dislike how it looks with 20+ characters stacked into 1x1 meter.

> > * Positive: Encourages smaller groups, or many small groups working together, so they don't step on each others toes.

> > * Negative: Probably way too much work (programing), and too much load (servers) thus resulting in lag.

> >

> > Overall I'd love to see this, test or not, but I won't hold my breath.

> >

> > I think an interesting variant could be a de-buff for when you're inside another character, but that would likely hit the "Care-Bear-Rule" by violating the "You should always be happy to see another player (on your team)".

>

> Not sure how I feel on the idea of friendly fire. Whoops I just boon ripped a ton of my own team. Oh no, my Well of Power boons were just corrupted by my Well of Corruption! As for body blocking and dodging, generally you'd expect dodging to allow you to dive through somebody. This would alleviate the issues of people body blocking keep doors as well as allow suicide dive tactics.

>

> As for the claims of way too much programming... are we ignoring the fact they went out of their way to make it so we can sit in chairs then replaced tons of chair placements in the world with usable entities? If ArenaNet felt this was a good idea, they could make it happen. As for the load on the servers, yes, this is a serious issue to deal with. Unfortunately I'm not entirely familiar with server architecture or lag compensation code, so I've got no solution for that besides beefier boxes.

 

Just to be clear, the idea of friendly fire is a running gag in wvw, "Friendly fire + collision detection = all them pugs die/death of zergs" etc. I'd just love to watch it for a weekend to enjoy the chaos. ^_^ Of course that would never happen, just imagine all the wonderful longbow rangers shooting their own players over the walls! The wonders of necro fear wall! or any other wall for that matter... 2 zergs of scourges sees each others, the first zerg to use skills dies in their own sand shades... (It would be glorious!). But nope, definitively not a serious request.

 

---

 

* Dodge rolling bypassing collision detection does solve a few issues with griefing, so that sounds like a good idea.

* I did add "probably" in front of the programming stuff, just guessing that it is one of those things that reaches into and interacts with lots of stuff.

* "Beefier boxes" doesn't solve everything, they might be better off working on lightening the load in other ways, like reducing the amount of calculations needed for conditions, reducing amount of passive effects/procs, heck make the game less spammy ;) But that is going to be lots of work anyways, and beyond this thread.

 

The largest two questions remain:

* Is this something ANet think will improve the game?

* Is this something ANet thinks will be worth investing the time/money/resources into?

 

Unfortunately I don't think it matches the first one, simply because the majority of players in wvw seemingly enjoys zerging, and not small scale stuff. Thus crippling zerging would likely cause a lot of complaints, and effectively less people playing wvw. As such, it automatically becomes a nope on the second one as well.

 

The main advantage I see to it (that might interest ANet) is to encourage other play types than Zerging, especially small scale roaming/havoc etc. But I think it is a bit ham-fisted to accomplish just that.

[Sovereign.1093]

full map of minstrel shield guards. gg end of the line

[Timarius.2895]

> @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> full map of minstrel shield guards. gg end of the line

 

Teleport past them. Spectral Walk or Mist Form through them (that should be a thing). Dodge past them. Drop an unblockable fear mark to scatter them. Or just fire through them with piercing skills. There are plenty of ways to handle that situation.

 

> @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> > @"Timarius.2895" said:

> > > @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> > > Couple of quick thoughts regarding Collision Detection:

> > >

> > > * Combine with friendly fire to make for the most hilarious wvw experience ever! I want this even if just for a weekend! I'll buy every bit of popcorn the local store got for this, and I don't even like popcorn!

> > > * Question for thought: Apply collision detection to dodges as well? Can you dodge through someone, or does the dodge stop when it crash into someone?

> > > * Negative: Friendly body blocking stuff (trolls), like 2 players could probably be enough to body-block the gate opening to a tower/keep etc.

> > > * Positive: Real disadvantage for zerg play, making the larger size comes with a much larger logistics to work (organization). If you can organize it, you'll do great, if you can't you collapse in on yourself. I'm ok with that.

> > > * Opinion: I personally really do dislike how it looks with 20+ characters stacked into 1x1 meter.

> > > * Positive: Encourages smaller groups, or many small groups working together, so they don't step on each others toes.

> > > * Negative: Probably way too much work (programing), and too much load (servers) thus resulting in lag.

> > >

> > > Overall I'd love to see this, test or not, but I won't hold my breath.

> > >

> > > I think an interesting variant could be a de-buff for when you're inside another character, but that would likely hit the "Care-Bear-Rule" by violating the "You should always be happy to see another player (on your team)".

> >

> > Not sure how I feel on the idea of friendly fire. Whoops I just boon ripped a ton of my own team. Oh no, my Well of Power boons were just corrupted by my Well of Corruption! As for body blocking and dodging, generally you'd expect dodging to allow you to dive through somebody. This would alleviate the issues of people body blocking keep doors as well as allow suicide dive tactics.

> >

> > As for the claims of way too much programming... are we ignoring the fact they went out of their way to make it so we can sit in chairs then replaced tons of chair placements in the world with usable entities? If ArenaNet felt this was a good idea, they could make it happen. As for the load on the servers, yes, this is a serious issue to deal with. Unfortunately I'm not entirely familiar with server architecture or lag compensation code, so I've got no solution for that besides beefier boxes.

>

> Just to be clear, the idea of friendly fire is a running gag in wvw, "Friendly fire + collision detection = all them pugs die/death of zergs" etc. I'd just love to watch it for a weekend to enjoy the chaos. ^_^ Of course that would never happen, just imagine all the wonderful longbow rangers shooting their own players over the walls! The wonders of necro fear wall! or any other wall for that matter... 2 zergs of scourges sees each others, the first zerg to use skills dies in their own sand shades... (It would be glorious!). But nope, definitively not a serious request.

>

> ---

>

> * Dodge rolling bypassing collision detection does solve a few issues with griefing, so that sounds like a good idea.

> * I did add "probably" in front of the programming stuff, just guessing that it is one of those things that reaches into and interacts with lots of stuff.

> * "Beefier boxes" doesn't solve everything, they might be better off working on lightening the load in other ways, like reducing the amount of calculations needed for conditions, reducing amount of passive effects/procs, heck make the game less spammy ;) But that is going to be lots of work anyways, and beyond this thread.

>

> The largest two questions remain:

> * Is this something ANet think will improve the game?

> * Is this something ANet thinks will be worth investing the time/money/resources into?

>

> Unfortunately I don't think it matches the first one, simply because the majority of players in wvw seemingly enjoys zerging, and not small scale stuff. Thus crippling zerging would likely cause a lot of complaints, and effectively less people playing wvw. As such, it automatically becomes a nope on the second one as well.

>

> The main advantage I see to it (that might interest ANet) is to encourage other play types than Zerging, especially small scale roaming/havoc etc. But I think it is a bit ham-fisted to accomplish just that.

 

I honestly hope to hear from ArenaNet on this in some manner. And let's be honest, WvW feels pretty dead already. I'm on Blackgate and never see large groups on my server that aren't closed groups demanding specific roles because the meta is "bring Firebrands for tons of boons". And I will never understand how anyone can find this meta of "make a big blob of Firebrands and Chronomancers" fun, so I cannot empathize with anyone who would be negatively affected by such a change.

[Sovereign.1093]

this will be such a big change to the game though. all big change causes ppl to quit or more ppl to join.

 

i recall playing rose online, being the top and richest player there before, supporting those who will go to war represent in servers gvg by providing their end gear and fighting them on the arena. but they changed the system, the toon i loved the most got nerfed. years invested, and i quit, just like that.

 

same thing happen, when red border came. no more alpine, i disappear. but that was the younger me. i know better now, but i still listen to my gut on things. if you're religious, it's like God's whisper saying, time to move on son.

 

but like always, willing to try and try and try. maybe not for wvw, but another - option.

 

on the not on tele, you can teleport and the guards will tele to u too. :) judge intervention x merciful intervention to allies, then stack like a spartan turtle shields.

 

saying this as caveat.

[Timarius.2895]

> @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> this will be such a big change to the game though. all big change causes ppl to quit or more ppl to join.

>

> i recall playing rose online, being the top and richest player there before, supporting those who will go to war represent in servers gvg by providing their end gear and fighting them on the arena. but they changed the system, the toon i loved the most got nerfed. years invested, and i quit, just like that.

>

> same thing happen, when red border came. no more alpine, i disappear. but that was the younger me. i know better now, but i still listen to my gut on things. if you're religious, it's like God's whisper saying, time to move on son.

>

> but like always, willing to try and try and try. maybe not for wvw, but another - option.

>

> on the not on tele, you can teleport and the guards will tele to u too. :) judge intervention x merciful intervention to allies, then stack like a spartan turtle shields.

>

> saying this as caveat.

 

True, but this means those guards would then be out of position. If you're saying a group of nothing BUT guards with shields... that would be absolutely hilarious to watch. It'd be one giant game of Red Rover. And if they did manage to completely encircle somebody, they're already dead anyway. But that is hilarious for everyone involved with a good sense of humor.

 

As for what happened to ROSE, I didn't stay long enough with that game to see enough since the entire idea of "find a Cleric to buff you then grind" was something I'd done many times before in many other games.

 

And while it's true that big changes can scare people away, they can also be huge boons to the game. Take Warframe, for instance. I've been playing that game since mods were what became fusion cores and weapons had their own leveling talent tree. Then they completely changed the system so that weapons have base stats and get points to put mod cards in. They've reworked entire warframes, rebalanced loads of guns to create a progression scale, and even added entire systems that weren't there before. EDIT: They also removed the fusion cores and replaced them with a singular currency for upgrading mods. Digital Extremes is not a large company by any means, but they're able to do all of these things because of their passion.

 

I can't say for sure I know anything about the situation at ArenaNet, but I'll keep hoping they'll look at this and at least give it a try. I wouldn't mind if it was just one weekend to see how everyone reacted. But I can say without this change I will likely never play WvW as the blobbing sickens me far more than zerg rushes, and I raged super hard at Vicexx and his guild Rhuin back in my WAR days. Those assholes would see a warband of 20-30 and then pop cap the entire map with 200 players. That's ancient history, though.

[Sovereign.1093]

gw2 sill runs on the old gw1 engine... (unless no, pls correct me). so dont know how this will do.

 

kinda like disney working still on windows me.

[BlueMelody.6398]

> @"Timarius.2895" said:

> > @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> > full map of minstrel shield guards. gg end of the line

>

> Teleport past them. Spectral Walk or Mist Form through them (that should be a thing). Dodge past them. Drop an unblockable fear mark to scatter them. Or just fire through them with piercing skills. There are plenty of ways to handle that situation.

>

> > @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> > > @"Timarius.2895" said:

> > > > @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> > > > Couple of quick thoughts regarding Collision Detection:

> > > >

> > > > * Combine with friendly fire to make for the most hilarious wvw experience ever! I want this even if just for a weekend! I'll buy every bit of popcorn the local store got for this, and I don't even like popcorn!

> > > > * Question for thought: Apply collision detection to dodges as well? Can you dodge through someone, or does the dodge stop when it crash into someone?

> > > > * Negative: Friendly body blocking stuff (trolls), like 2 players could probably be enough to body-block the gate opening to a tower/keep etc.

> > > > * Positive: Real disadvantage for zerg play, making the larger size comes with a much larger logistics to work (organization). If you can organize it, you'll do great, if you can't you collapse in on yourself. I'm ok with that.

> > > > * Opinion: I personally really do dislike how it looks with 20+ characters stacked into 1x1 meter.

> > > > * Positive: Encourages smaller groups, or many small groups working together, so they don't step on each others toes.

> > > > * Negative: Probably way too much work (programing), and too much load (servers) thus resulting in lag.

> > > >

> > > > Overall I'd love to see this, test or not, but I won't hold my breath.

> > > >

> > > > I think an interesting variant could be a de-buff for when you're inside another character, but that would likely hit the "Care-Bear-Rule" by violating the "You should always be happy to see another player (on your team)".

> > >

> > > Not sure how I feel on the idea of friendly fire. Whoops I just boon ripped a ton of my own team. Oh no, my Well of Power boons were just corrupted by my Well of Corruption! As for body blocking and dodging, generally you'd expect dodging to allow you to dive through somebody. This would alleviate the issues of people body blocking keep doors as well as allow suicide dive tactics.

> > >

> > > As for the claims of way too much programming... are we ignoring the fact they went out of their way to make it so we can sit in chairs then replaced tons of chair placements in the world with usable entities? If ArenaNet felt this was a good idea, they could make it happen. As for the load on the servers, yes, this is a serious issue to deal with. Unfortunately I'm not entirely familiar with server architecture or lag compensation code, so I've got no solution for that besides beefier boxes.

> >

> > Just to be clear, the idea of friendly fire is a running gag in wvw, "Friendly fire + collision detection = all them pugs die/death of zergs" etc. I'd just love to watch it for a weekend to enjoy the chaos. ^_^ Of course that would never happen, just imagine all the wonderful longbow rangers shooting their own players over the walls! The wonders of necro fear wall! or any other wall for that matter... 2 zergs of scourges sees each others, the first zerg to use skills dies in their own sand shades... (It would be glorious!). But nope, definitively not a serious request.

> >

> > ---

> >

> > * Dodge rolling bypassing collision detection does solve a few issues with griefing, so that sounds like a good idea.

> > * I did add "probably" in front of the programming stuff, just guessing that it is one of those things that reaches into and interacts with lots of stuff.

> > * "Beefier boxes" doesn't solve everything, they might be better off working on lightening the load in other ways, like reducing the amount of calculations needed for conditions, reducing amount of passive effects/procs, heck make the game less spammy ;) But that is going to be lots of work anyways, and beyond this thread.

> >

> > The largest two questions remain:

> > * Is this something ANet think will improve the game?

> > * Is this something ANet thinks will be worth investing the time/money/resources into?

> >

> > Unfortunately I don't think it matches the first one, simply because the majority of players in wvw seemingly enjoys zerging, and not small scale stuff. Thus crippling zerging would likely cause a lot of complaints, and effectively less people playing wvw. As such, it automatically becomes a nope on the second one as well.

> >

> > The main advantage I see to it (that might interest ANet) is to encourage other play types than Zerging, especially small scale roaming/havoc etc. But I think it is a bit ham-fisted to accomplish just that.

>

> I honestly hope to hear from ArenaNet on this in some manner. And let's be honest, WvW feels pretty dead already. I'm on Blackgate and never see large groups on my server that aren't closed groups demanding specific roles because the meta is "bring Firebrands for tons of boons". And I will never understand how anyone can find this meta of "make a big blob of Firebrands and Chronomancers" fun, so I cannot empathize with anyone who would be negatively affected by such a change.

 

You've never addressed the fact that this would turn the game into a huge Pirate Ship ad nauseum, which would be far more boring than what we have already.

 

Huge NO to the idea.

[Israel.7056]

Presumably technical reasons for things like aoe caps and no collision.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> gw2 sill runs on the old gw1 engine... (unless no, pls correct me). so dont know how this will do.

>

> kinda like disney working still on windows me.

 

The GW2 engine is heavily modified compared to GW1. Its more like saying that Doom 4 still runs on the old Doom 3 engine.

[Sovereign.1093]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> > gw2 sill runs on the old gw1 engine... (unless no, pls correct me). so dont know how this will do.

> >

> > kinda like disney working still on windows me.

>

> The GW2 engine is heavily modified compared to GW1. Its more like saying that Doom 4 still runs on the old Doom 3 engine.

 

can you confirm? we have come to believe it still runs on the same engine

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> > > gw2 sill runs on the old gw1 engine... (unless no, pls correct me). so dont know how this will do.

> > >

> > > kinda like disney working still on windows me.

> >

> > The GW2 engine is heavily modified compared to GW1. Its more like saying that Doom 4 still runs on the old Doom 3 engine.

>

> can you confirm? we have come to believe it still runs on the same engine

Well just read the wiki.

 

*Guild Wars 2 uses a heavily modified Guild Wars game engine which includes support for true 3D environments, more detailed environments and models, better lighting and shadows, new animation and effects systems, plus new audio and cinematics engines and a more flexible combat and skill-casting system.[6] It uses Havok to provide destructible environment and ragdoll animation of creatures and Umbra's occlusion culling technology.*

 

And thats the original GW2, not counting any modifications over the years. I am certain there are many small things we dont normally see either that the GW2 engine can do but the GW engine cant. Could GW do the opacity refraction ice shaders for example? What you see on the animal statues in the Norn city. I dont know, maybe it could. You can correct me as well.

 

Most games does this anyway. Skyrim runs on the "same" engine as Morrowind (ie a heavily modified Gamebryo engine they just gave a new name), Battlefield 5 still runs on the "same" engine as Bad Company from 2008 (ie a heavily modified Frostbite engine) etc. Hell even within the same generation games vastly differ... Archeage runs on the same engine as Crysis 3.

 

[Timarius.2895]

Running around grabbing masteries in the crystal desert and realized that we already have a precedent set in that players collide with mobs. You can even dodge through them. Theoretically it should be simple to make players collide with each other in WvW. ArenaNet, please give it a shot.