(Spoiler) "Hidden" mount was a mistake and mounts in general need to be toned down.

[Zok.4956]

> @"Manimarco Devil.1790" said:

> The griffon mount needs to be removed.

 

No, it doesn't.

 

 

[pah.4931]

I don't own the griffon, but I'm working on it. As long as GW2 never adds something that can take off from the ground and fly, then I think we are OK.

 

However, does the griffon have any attack/damage associated with its #1 ability? If yes, that could have been a way to make the mount "less optimal" -- it can't engage into combat like the other ones (and maybe it doesn't benefit from the final masteries in the other mount trees).

[Korval.3751]

> @"Manimarco Devil.1790" said:

> The griffon mount needs to be removed. This is exactly the type of mount of WoW uses and it kills content. People are allowed to bypass too much by using them. Ground mounts are more prone to being attacked and stopped via things like tar traps. Flying bypasses everything and will only make future content warped in order to accommodate it. Flying effectively renders the other mounts obsolete. Why raptor jump or skimmer when you can simply fly? (The bunny and jackal are still somewhat protected as the bunny can increase vertical distance more quickly and the jackal can use sand portals.) The meager counterargument is that the griffon cannot go past its initial height. But with the bunny and griffon one can bypass a majority of the map. (reach nearby high point -> fly) Mounts and gliding may add some amount of fun but they have also succeeded in removing any challenge the z-axis provided in this game. Mounts need to be more specific to dealing with environmental challenges and less about going 100mph past everything.

 

I spent three days working on getting my Griffon. I condemn your critique in the strongest of terms. BTW Griffons don't fly, they glide slowly, which is a thing in GW2 since HOT.

[Pepsi.8907]

> @Nokomis.5076 said:

> > @"Aurelian Omenkind.2470" said:

> > OP’s argument is semantics at this point. The cat’s already out of the bag now. Or rather the griffon is out of the nest. There’s pretty much 0% chance Arenanet is gonna say to everyone who currently has the mount, “all that work you did and price you paid to get that shiny (“feathery”?) new mount? Yeah, our bad. They’re going away now. Sorry ‘bout that, mate.”

>

> Well ocassionally they do nerf whole professions ;D

 

However griffon works exactly as the devs intended it to work. They did say Griffon was the best mount and seeing how much it cost, I really hoped it would be.

[Emprer.7256]

The griffon is the most fun for me but that is if I manage to get to a really high ground. who would bother wasting time and trying to get to a high ground then glide down with a griffon when you can reach your destination much faster with a raptor. The limit to not able to gain more height is enough as it makes it comparatively less effective than other mounts most times.

[Beazy.4512]

Meh, dont remove the griffon, I still have not gotten it and want to use it. ANet made PoF epic. Id rather not screw it up because some guy on the forums thinks it some how bypassing content. . . GW2 content system is based on what YOU as a player want to do that day. . . not some on rails BS like the last two WoW expansions.

[Theocraft.6053]

Griffon as it is has serious, fully intended flows. It is well-thought and executed. Not getting out diffcult arguments: in many (more flat) maps players will use raptors , jackal, bunny and skimmer are here because of their main features. And gliding is way more precise.

[Manimarco Devil.1790]

It appears people are under the impression that I cannot afford it so I am jealous. Let me clarify: I have more than enough money to afford the griffon. I am simply disagreeing that it is a healthy addition to the game. Perhaps I am wrong, but there are already issues where mounted players complete events before on foot or slower mounted players can arrive. People keep comparing it to a glider but as stated before; it is much faster and falls slower aka not a glider. It skips content in the sense that there are obstacles; terrain, enemies, traps added to the game to challenge the player. It allows players to bypass all of that. If that sort of thing doesn't interest you they should simply add a instant waypoint to where you would like to be since you do not want to deal with the actual game itself.

 

It severely diverges from GW1 game design where even small maps felt vast. GW2 is already scaled smaller, these mounts make it even more so. The game world for GW2 was not made with mounts in mind. It should have been if they were going to be added. A gate blocking your path makes sense. Now the game is only limited by invisible walls.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Manimarco Devil.1790" said:

> It appears people are under the impression that I cannot afford it so I am jealous. Let me clarify: I have more than enough money to afford the griffon. I am simply disagreeing that it is a healthy addition to the game. Perhaps I am wrong, but there are already issues where mounted players complete events before on foot or slower mounted players can arrive. People keep comparing it to a glider but as stated before; it is much faster and falls slower aka not a glider. It skips content in the sense that there are obstacles; terrain, enemies, traps added to the game to challenge the player. It allows players to bypass all of that. If that sort of thing doesn't interest you they should simply add a instant waypoint to where you would like to be since you do not want to deal with the actual game itself.

>

> It severely diverges from GW1 game design where even small maps felt vast. GW2 is already scaled smaller, these mounts make it even more so. The game world for GW2 was not made with mounts in mind. It should have been if they were going to be added. A gate blocking your path makes sense. Now the game is only limited by invisible walls.

 

As much as my earlier post in someways highlights my agreement that mounts have allowed core maps and expansions to become somewhat exploited by the new mounts, especially when considering events and the "rush" - I have to kinda draw a line in the sand there and say I think you are taking the whole GW1 to GW2 comparison way to far.

This is not GW1 in soo many ways, it is has migrated, expanded and become its own beast and rightly so so maybe you need to draw your own line somewhere.

Both sides of this argument have valid points to make.. afterall it was a ANET that developed the idea, they made it happen and we bought the expansion, happy in the knowledge mounts were there to be used.

Do I like mounts.. yes

Do I like what they offer to the game ... yes

Do I think it breaks immersion having them useable in core/previous expacs.. maybe but that was ANETS lack of vision on there impact outside PoF, that's not something we players can do a lot about so we just have to live with the imbalance they have brought about in some areas of the game.

 

Bottom line is mounts are here to stay, maybe even expanded on and I like the idea of that, but maybe some scaling down and tweaking of certain skills may be considered at some point who knows. If not well as I said we just have to get on with it.

 

[TriEdge.5149]

Its a gliding mount not a flying mount so its ok. And dude if u don't like mounts don't use them its as simple as that

[Myrdreth.6829]

> @"Manimarco Devil.1790" said:

> It appears people are under the impression that I cannot afford it so I am jealous. Let me clarify: I have more than enough money to afford the griffon. I am simply disagreeing that it is a healthy addition to the game. Perhaps I am wrong, but there are already issues where mounted players complete events before on foot or slower mounted players can arrive. People keep comparing it to a glider but as stated before; it is much faster and falls slower aka not a glider. It skips content in the sense that there are obstacles; terrain, enemies, traps added to the game to challenge the player. It allows players to bypass all of that. **If that sort of thing doesn't interest you they should simply add a instant waypoint to where you would like to be since you do not want to deal with the actual game itself.**

 

It's **FUN** to travel with the mounts. Using a waypoint to get from point A to B is fast, yes. But boring! Sometimes I just ride my mount from one point to another to enjoy the feeling of traveling with them. Jumping around with the springer, gliding with the griffon, leaping with the jackal...it's FUN! Being able to avoid mobs is funny as hell. That's part of the game now and I enjoy it very much. But that doesn't mean that I'll always ignore obstacles, enemies, traps etc...and you know why? Because overcoming them on my own is fun too! And at those times I will just ignore my mounts and travel on foot. Isn't that amazing? Being able to CHOOSE what I wanna do ingame...inGAME. Because that's what it is. A game. To have fun. Everyone can choose what they enjoy the most and do that. And if someone just want's to ride all day on their mounts and miss all the great content, it's their 'loss'. Not yours. As long as they have fun, why not?

 

EVERYONE has the same chance to get mounts. It's possible for EVERYONE to get them. Some get them faster than others, yes. But that's ok. I still don't have ascended gear or legendaries but that's because I am slow (and after getting the griffon, poor again too). That's ok! It's a goal that I am looking forward to. It's fun to have something to work for. Yes, others are better than me, but so what? Give me a little bit more time and eventually I will get them too. The same goes for mounts. It may take a little longer for some but eventually they will be able to get the griffon too. It's not unfair. Everyone can get the same mounts. No one is at a disadvantage. It's not RNG or whatever.

 

edit: typo

[Aurelian Omenkind.2470]

It occurs to me that the raptor’s speed jump readily also lets a player skip content with well timed boosts. Perhaps they should also be removed. And the Springer allows players to jump to great heights where HoT players can glide for great distances avoiding content. They should probably be removed. And the skimmer allows us to skip underwater battles entirely. They’ve gotta go too.

 

We won’t even talk about the jackal.

[Korval.3751]

> @"Aurelian Omenkind.2470" said:

> It occurs to me that the raptor’s speed jump readily also lets a player skip content with well timed boosts. Perhaps they should also be removed. And the Springer allows players to jump to great heights where HoT players can glide for great distances avoiding content. They should probably be removed. And the skimmer allows us to skip underwater battles entirely. They’ve gotta go too.

>

> We won’t even talk about the jackal.

 

People love to complain about things. People complained about gliders, now I can't imagine GW2 with out them.

[ONko.7460]

> @cygnus.8913 said:

> Mounts didn't hurt WoW

 

Even Blizzard disagrees with this. They had to disable flying at the start of each new zone.

 

I, for one, was always happy that GW went the logical and innovative way. It was only reasonable there wouldn't be flying mount to eclipse all others. They even presented this in their promo videos - everyone will find their own favorite mount. Now don't start with all this "you dont have to use it". That's no argument.

 

 

[Haishao.6851]

 

> @"Aurelian Omenkind.2470" said:

> It occurs to me that the raptor’s speed jump readily also lets a player skip content with well timed boosts. Perhaps they should also be removed. And the Springer allows players to jump to great heights where HoT players can glide for great distances avoiding content. They should probably be removed. And the skimmer allows us to skip underwater battles entirely. They’ve gotta go too.

>

> We won’t even talk about the jackal.

 

Don't forget swiftness, block, blink, stealth, rush, leap, dodge

[nosleepdemon.1368]

What people don't understand when they say "if you don't like feature x, then don't use it" is the principle of an object changing its enviornment simply through its existence. The very obvious example of this are the maps in PoF which are larger to accomodate mounts. You can clearly see that Arena Net are aware of this, as they have limited the functionality of the Gryphon, which is something Blizzard failed to do. Adding a large cost doesn't change this problem as given enough time, a majority of players will acquire the gold for the mount.

 

Blizzard realised how mounts utterly destroyed open world content, despite their attempts to design maps with flying in mind. If I recall, flying in Legion was simply not possible for some time after launch.

 

Arena Net clearly think the Gryphon is appropriately "nerfed", and its use is situational enough to warrant the mounts inclusion. However now that mounts are available, it is very difficult to undo. Thus, the OP's post is pretty valid, and I hope this does not come back to bite the developers in the ass.

[ONko.7460]

 

> @"Aurelian Omenkind.2470" said:

> It occurs to me that the raptor’s speed jump readily also lets a player skip content with well timed boosts. Perhaps they should also be removed. And the Springer allows players to jump to great heights where HoT players can glide for great distances avoiding content. They should probably be removed. And the skimmer allows us to skip underwater battles entirely. They’ve gotta go too.

>

> We won’t even talk about the jackal.

 

Thanks for naming all the specific situations where every transport has its specific purpose. It underlined the main point that the Griffon combines all the above and makes them obsolete.

[Neural.1824]

This thread is an excellent example of why the thumbs down option needs to be reactivated.

[Myrdreth.6829]

> @ONko.7460 said:

>

> > @"Aurelian Omenkind.2470" said:

> > It occurs to me that the raptor’s speed jump readily also lets a player skip content with well timed boosts. Perhaps they should also be removed. And the Springer allows players to jump to great heights where HoT players can glide for great distances avoiding content. They should probably be removed. And the skimmer allows us to skip underwater battles entirely. They’ve gotta go too.

> >

> > We won’t even talk about the jackal.

>

> Thanks for naming all the specific situations where every transport has its specific purpose. It underlined the main point that the Griffon combines all the above and makes them obsolete.

 

....do you even know what a griffon can do?

[VaaCrow.3076]

> @Neural.1824 said:

> This thread is an excellent example of why the thumbs down option needs to be reactivated.

 

agreed with you 100%

[sorudo.9054]

i do think the gliding distance should be reduced or at least have an endurance bar like a glider, it's already faster and glides further so a little bump shouldn't hurt.

[Parlance.9584]

To fly across the map, you still need to find a spot high enough to get enough speed from. Getting to this height usually requires a jackal.

The only mount i'd say the griffon makes "useless" is the skimmer and thats only because you can fly over stuff like quicksand. The skimmer was basically a one trick pony to begin with so this isnt surprising.

 

The raptor is still faster on the ground.

The Jackal is fun to move around with + has portals

The Springer can jump way higher than the griffon can

 

Also, the griffon is cute so that should be enough of an argument in itself.

[Chickenooble.5014]

> @Myrdreth.6829 said:

> > @ONko.7460 said:

> >

> > > @"Aurelian Omenkind.2470" said:

> > > It occurs to me that the raptor’s speed jump readily also lets a player skip content with well timed boosts. Perhaps they should also be removed. And the Springer allows players to jump to great heights where HoT players can glide for great distances avoiding content. They should probably be removed. And the skimmer allows us to skip underwater battles entirely. They’ve gotta go too.

> > >

> > > We won’t even talk about the jackal.

> >

> > Thanks for naming all the specific situations where every transport has its specific purpose. It underlined the main point that the Griffon combines all the above and makes them obsolete.

>

> ....do you even know what a griffon can do?

Obviously, it can use sand portals and perform spin/cannonball attacks while healing people/

 

[Myrdreth.6829]

> @Chickenooble.5014 said:

> > @Myrdreth.6829 said:

> > > @ONko.7460 said:

> > >

> > > > @"Aurelian Omenkind.2470" said:

> > > > It occurs to me that the raptor’s speed jump readily also lets a player skip content with well timed boosts. Perhaps they should also be removed. And the Springer allows players to jump to great heights where HoT players can glide for great distances avoiding content. They should probably be removed. And the skimmer allows us to skip underwater battles entirely. They’ve gotta go too.

> > > >

> > > > We won’t even talk about the jackal.

> > >

> > > Thanks for naming all the specific situations where every transport has its specific purpose. It underlined the main point that the Griffon combines all the above and makes them obsolete.

> >

> > ....do you even know what a griffon can do?

> Obviously, it can use sand portals and perform spin/cannonball attacks while healing people/

>

 

I am so stupid, how could I forget that?

[fungihoujo.8476]

> @"Manimarco Devil.1790" said:

> The griffon mount needs to be removed. This is exactly the type of mount of WoW uses and it kills content. People are allowed to bypass too much by using them. Ground mounts are more prone to being attacked and stopped via things like tar traps. Flying bypasses everything and will only make future content warped in order to accommodate it. Flying effectively renders the other mounts obsolete. Why raptor jump or skimmer when you can simply fly? (The bunny and jackal are still somewhat protected as the bunny can increase vertical distance more quickly and the jackal can use sand portals.) The meager counterargument is that the griffon cannot go past its initial height. But with the bunny and griffon one can bypass a majority of the map. (reach nearby high point -> fly) Mounts and gliding may add some amount of fun but they have also succeeded in removing any challenge the z-axis provided in this game. Mounts need to be more specific to dealing with environmental challenges and less about going 100mph past everything.

 

 

New content was designed with gliding/mounts in mind, so there's nothing new that can really be considered something that can be bypassed. As for old content... c'mon, you really care that much that some people might be able to pass mobs or easily do things that came out 5 years ago? Anyone who wanted to be challenged by the z-axis in this game has already been challenged by it- anyone who hasn't done those things will now be more likely to do so (heck, just the speed of the raptor, the only mount I have so far, has increased my willingness to do old content) which actually INCREASES content for players, not decrease.

 

But we can bypass some mobs... oh dear? Seriously, you're concerned that people might use mounts to get past hordes of trash? That's the pristine content you want to preserve? I don't know anyone who puts 'world trash' down as one of the top 100 things in an mmo they enjoy.

 

So we can travel across maps faster... good- best change GW2 has made, they're almost a modern mmo rather than an old fashioned one obsessed with how to restrict players. And let's not kid ourselves- your concern here is that Anet is lowering restrictions on non-competitive, open world content.