Newbie Thief question

[SatdeNecro.2395]

New to playing/learning thief and been trying out different weapon combos. One thing I hear over and over again is P/P is the most horrible weapon setup you could have. Its pretty fun and does fine to me? Seems like a good compliment to a melee weapon when swapping.

 

What am I missing here? Why is P/P so bad? Please no troll posts, legitimately asking.

[Tails.9372]

It is easy to counter and most importantly has no sustain in PvP. I wouldn't call it bad outside of PvP but it has its issues in PvE. The damage of unload is ok-ish (dagger AA does more while not having any iniciative costs) but the main problem are the other skills. You're pretty much down one skill because vital shot is mostly redundant since you're going to use unload as your main source of damage and everything else suffers from synergy issues and unloads high initiative costs which becomes very apparent when you fight against anything were you have to break a break bar. Now compare this to D/P which does noticeably more damage while also having more synergy with / being able to use its utility skills without any major constraints and the issues should become rather apparent.

[derd.6413]

because PP on thief boils down to spamming 1 skill for ok-ish damage that's easily countered in pvp

[Aigleborgne.2981]

And it's single target damage. Very boring but quite efficient single target damage.

I prefer to stick with melee, more challenging and rewarding.

[Hoodie.1045]

> @"SatdeNecro.2395" said:

> One thing I hear over and over again is P/P is the most horrible weapon setup you could have. Its pretty fun and does fine to me? Seems like a good compliment to a melee weapon when swapping.

>

> What am I missing here? Why is P/P so bad? Please no troll posts, legitimately asking.

 

If we're talking about open world PvE, then p/p is by far the strongest weapon set for the thief when it comes to leveling. Not only do you not need specializations in order to improve the weapon set with the exception of the extra initiative from Trickery and the damage boost from Deadly Arts, but you can also have 25 stacks of might by spamming Unload.

 

When it comes to PvP however, that's when the weapon set is awful. Especially when you're up against good players who know that you're using p/p, then they'll immediately know how to hard counter you. I say hard counter because the weapon set only has one skill that is good while the rest are useless. Use either rifle of p/p in open world PvE and stick to s/d or d/p in PvP.

[Aigleborgne.2981]

> @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> > @"SatdeNecro.2395" said:

> > One thing I hear over and over again is P/P is the most horrible weapon setup you could have. Its pretty fun and does fine to me? Seems like a good compliment to a melee weapon when swapping.

> >

> > What am I missing here? Why is P/P so bad? Please no troll posts, legitimately asking.

>

> If we're talking about open world PvE, then p/p is by far the strongest weapon set for the thief when it comes to leveling. Not only do you not need specializations in order to improve the weapon set with the exception of the extra initiative from Trickery and the damage boost from Deadly Arts, but you can also have 25 stacks of might by spamming Unload.

>

> When it comes to PvP however, that's when the weapon set is awful. Especially when you're up against good players who know that you're using p/p, then they'll immediately know how to hard counter you. I say hard counter because the weapon set only has one skill that is good while the rest are useless. Use either rifle of p/p in open world PvE and stick to s/d or d/p in PvP.

 

I strongly disagree with you. Do we play the same game ?

Sure, unload is efficient vs single target. But most of the time, you are facing multiple mobs. You can sometimes line them up and benefit from excedent bullets to hit target behind. But most of the times, you are out of initiative, attacking with very bad auto.

 

And you cant maintain 25 mights without a proper equipment that you usually don't have while leveling. Most likely, you will have 10-12 stacks.

 

As a comparaison, sword and dagger kill a lot faster groups of mobs, proviving you can survive in melee.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Aigleborgne.2981" said:

> > @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> > > @"SatdeNecro.2395" said:

> > > One thing I hear over and over again is P/P is the most horrible weapon setup you could have. Its pretty fun and does fine to me? Seems like a good compliment to a melee weapon when swapping.

> > >

> > > What am I missing here? Why is P/P so bad? Please no troll posts, legitimately asking.

> >

> > If we're talking about open world PvE, then p/p is by far the strongest weapon set for the thief when it comes to leveling. Not only do you not need specializations in order to improve the weapon set with the exception of the extra initiative from Trickery and the damage boost from Deadly Arts, but you can also have 25 stacks of might by spamming Unload.

> >

> > When it comes to PvP however, that's when the weapon set is awful. Especially when you're up against good players who know that you're using p/p, then they'll immediately know how to hard counter you. I say hard counter because the weapon set only has one skill that is good while the rest are useless. Use either rifle of p/p in open world PvE and stick to s/d or d/p in PvP.

>

> I strongly disagree with you. Do we play the same game ?

> Sure, unload is efficient vs single target. But most of the time, you are facing multiple mobs. You can sometimes line them up and benefit from excedent bullets to hit target behind. But most of the times, you are out of initiative, attacking with very bad auto.

>

> And you cant maintain 25 mights without a proper equipment that you usually don't have while leveling. Most likely, you will have 10-12 stacks.

>

> As a comparaison, sword and dagger kill a lot faster groups of mobs, proviving you can survive in melee.

 

mounts are the best weapon for leveling.

[Aigleborgne.2981]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Aigleborgne.2981" said:

> > > @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> > > > @"SatdeNecro.2395" said:

> > > > One thing I hear over and over again is P/P is the most horrible weapon setup you could have. Its pretty fun and does fine to me? Seems like a good compliment to a melee weapon when swapping.

> > > >

> > > > What am I missing here? Why is P/P so bad? Please no troll posts, legitimately asking.

> > >

> > > If we're talking about open world PvE, then p/p is by far the strongest weapon set for the thief when it comes to leveling. Not only do you not need specializations in order to improve the weapon set with the exception of the extra initiative from Trickery and the damage boost from Deadly Arts, but you can also have 25 stacks of might by spamming Unload.

> > >

> > > When it comes to PvP however, that's when the weapon set is awful. Especially when you're up against good players who know that you're using p/p, then they'll immediately know how to hard counter you. I say hard counter because the weapon set only has one skill that is good while the rest are useless. Use either rifle of p/p in open world PvE and stick to s/d or d/p in PvP.

> >

> > I strongly disagree with you. Do we play the same game ?

> > Sure, unload is efficient vs single target. But most of the time, you are facing multiple mobs. You can sometimes line them up and benefit from excedent bullets to hit target behind. But most of the times, you are out of initiative, attacking with very bad auto.

> >

> > And you cant maintain 25 mights without a proper equipment that you usually don't have while leveling. Most likely, you will have 10-12 stacks.

> >

> > As a comparaison, sword and dagger kill a lot faster groups of mobs, proviving you can survive in melee.

>

> mounts are the best weapon for leveling.

 

Not everyone have or use mounts. It's also off topic, OP is asking about PnP

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Aigleborgne.2981" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"Aigleborgne.2981" said:

> > > > @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> > > > > @"SatdeNecro.2395" said:

> > > > > One thing I hear over and over again is P/P is the most horrible weapon setup you could have. Its pretty fun and does fine to me? Seems like a good compliment to a melee weapon when swapping.

> > > > >

> > > > > What am I missing here? Why is P/P so bad? Please no troll posts, legitimately asking.

> > > >

> > > > If we're talking about open world PvE, then p/p is by far the strongest weapon set for the thief when it comes to leveling. Not only do you not need specializations in order to improve the weapon set with the exception of the extra initiative from Trickery and the damage boost from Deadly Arts, but you can also have 25 stacks of might by spamming Unload.

> > > >

> > > > When it comes to PvP however, that's when the weapon set is awful. Especially when you're up against good players who know that you're using p/p, then they'll immediately know how to hard counter you. I say hard counter because the weapon set only has one skill that is good while the rest are useless. Use either rifle of p/p in open world PvE and stick to s/d or d/p in PvP.

> > >

> > > I strongly disagree with you. Do we play the same game ?

> > > Sure, unload is efficient vs single target. But most of the time, you are facing multiple mobs. You can sometimes line them up and benefit from excedent bullets to hit target behind. But most of the times, you are out of initiative, attacking with very bad auto.

> > >

> > > And you cant maintain 25 mights without a proper equipment that you usually don't have while leveling. Most likely, you will have 10-12 stacks.

> > >

> > > As a comparaison, sword and dagger kill a lot faster groups of mobs, proviving you can survive in melee.

> >

> > mounts are the best weapon for leveling.

>

> Not everyone have or use mounts. It's also off topic, OP is asking about PnP

 

i know he is but if you are arguing wich weapon is better for leveling then its allways mounts.

at level 80+ rifle is mostly better than p/p for single target ranged power damage and thats the only thing p/p has. for pre lvl 80 you have mounts. so there is is currently not much reason to run it. i think there was a hybrid p/p daredevil build some used in WvW with bound for sneak attacks with rending shade for boonrip + condi between the unloads.

[Aigleborgne.2981]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Aigleborgne.2981" said:

> > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > @"Aigleborgne.2981" said:

> > > > > @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> > > > > > @"SatdeNecro.2395" said:

> > > > > > One thing I hear over and over again is P/P is the most horrible weapon setup you could have. Its pretty fun and does fine to me? Seems like a good compliment to a melee weapon when swapping.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What am I missing here? Why is P/P so bad? Please no troll posts, legitimately asking.

> > > > >

> > > > > If we're talking about open world PvE, then p/p is by far the strongest weapon set for the thief when it comes to leveling. Not only do you not need specializations in order to improve the weapon set with the exception of the extra initiative from Trickery and the damage boost from Deadly Arts, but you can also have 25 stacks of might by spamming Unload.

> > > > >

> > > > > When it comes to PvP however, that's when the weapon set is awful. Especially when you're up against good players who know that you're using p/p, then they'll immediately know how to hard counter you. I say hard counter because the weapon set only has one skill that is good while the rest are useless. Use either rifle of p/p in open world PvE and stick to s/d or d/p in PvP.

> > > >

> > > > I strongly disagree with you. Do we play the same game ?

> > > > Sure, unload is efficient vs single target. But most of the time, you are facing multiple mobs. You can sometimes line them up and benefit from excedent bullets to hit target behind. But most of the times, you are out of initiative, attacking with very bad auto.

> > > >

> > > > And you cant maintain 25 mights without a proper equipment that you usually don't have while leveling. Most likely, you will have 10-12 stacks.

> > > >

> > > > As a comparaison, sword and dagger kill a lot faster groups of mobs, proviving you can survive in melee.

> > >

> > > mounts are the best weapon for leveling.

> >

> > Not everyone have or use mounts. It's also off topic, OP is asking about PnP

>

> i know he is but if you are arguing wich weapon is better for leveling then its allways mounts.

> at level 80+ rifle is mostly better than p/p for single target ranged power damage and thats the only thing p/p has. for pre lvl 80 you have mounts. so there is is currently not much reason to run it. i think there was a hybrid p/p daredevil build some used in WvW with bound for sneak attacks with rending shade for boonrip + condi between the unloads.

 

I am certainly an oldschool player, but I don't see any good point to level with mounts. Because they are not a part of your profession, you learn nothing by using them as a weapon.

I haven't said what weapons are the best to level. Just disagree with someone that said that p/p is by far the best leveling weapon.

 

I have used p/p and others and clearly, p/p shines vs a few foes. But when you face a lot, it becomes slower to a point that d/d or s/p might become a lot faster, in my experience. Plus, I almost killed myself a few times with p/p because of reflects.

 

I still use p/p from times to times, vs some veterans you don't want to melee. But never as a standard for those reasons and also the boring point.

[Gandrogh.1530]

Yes p/p is a good set in open world. S/P too because of pistol 5 (aoe blind) and 3 cleave.

Anyway you don't need to play an optimised build for leveling. The best way is to try every weapon set and learn what is working or not

[Tails.9372]

> @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> If we're talking about open world PvE, then p/p is by far the strongest weapon set for the thief when it comes to leveling.

But leveling is like <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< 0,0000001% of your overall playtime and you're better off using stuff like D/P or SB afterwards.

 

> @"Hoodie.1045" said:

>you can also have 25 stacks of might by spamming Unload

Unload being balanced around might stacks is actually a bad thing for the weapon set overall because it means that youre still doing less damage than other weapon sets while also not profiting from the might provided by other classes.