Gop.8713 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > Guess we will find out tomorrow. The only way we find out tomorrow is if they fix it tomorrow. If they don't fix it tomorrow all we find out is they haven't fixed it yet . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanner Blackfeather.6509 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Gop.8713" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol of course it's relevant when there is a distinct hole in the ability to supply the market anywhere near what's required in order to quell price hikes and market manipulation.. nice attempt to smokescreen once again though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your opinion here does not determine if something is wrong. It's Anet decision to decide if they need to make an adjustment. You don't have enough information from the game to decide if there is a 'hole' in the ability to supply the market. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yah great way to handle business, and how accepting of you to give them a pass on this type of behavior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've yet to see an MMO that doesn't handle business this way. The game devs provide the experiences for players; players don't give that to them to implement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a wonderful passive aggressive environment they foster. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, JUST like every other game developer. You make it sound like this approach is unique to GW2. It's not. In fact, how else do you think they should operate without having increased costs for providing this service to us? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not a problem ... why would anyone commit to a game and think everything is equal for all people? The fact there is a market is a sure indication (or should be) to every player in this game that it's not designed for equality. Heck, just the fact that some people can play more than others is creating massive inequality between players; nothing a game dev could do can address that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, there's tons of things they could have done: add sigils of nullification to a vendor, add a recipe to craft them, make the armor recipe require a more common superior sigil, or allow any superior sigil to work with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or require account-bound items sold at a vendor instead of something the robber barons can hold for ransom, kind of like the griffin does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure ... they could have done tons of things. That's not for debate. We can imagine all sorts of things that could have been. But they didn't ... they did THIS thing. They did it for a reason. I don't know what that reason is. If it doesn't work out, we know they will address it because of past actions they have done on similar issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After 700+ posts, it amazes me as to how some people choose to support the whole sigil price topic - or downright troll others. A simple fact remains, one you just cannot ignore. That fact is how a minority of players got huge profit .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except that isn't a problem ... if it was, the market would have never been structured the way it is. Look, you play a game with a player driven market where that is going to happen. Get over it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, let's see: Domain of Kourna had the beetle, easily obtainable (cost-wise) by everyone. You needed certain defense events in Core Tyria, and some events in DoK map. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandswept isles had the animated backpack thingie, again, no biggie as far as gold investment went. It needed the Serpents Ire meta, which is another thing altogether. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Istan has the stellar weapons (no collection for that one, sadly) . Available to everyone, no tp cost attached. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Draconis Mons had the Druid backpack. You only needed to do time gated stuff each day (heart vendors) for 14 days. Again, available to everyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This time, in living story, Anet choose to use a sigil which isnt available to everyone. This is different. And it was a bad move. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > none of that has anything to do with Anet designing the game around people's requests, or any other thing Anet has implemented that has mats that you need from the market. Those examples, just like that one, are based on decisions Anet made on how to implement them. My point still stands: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The game has a player-driven market. There is nothing new here for Items that show up in new gear that are purchased from the market. it all behaves the same way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People did not request daily gated hearts, neither did they request Serpents Ire, as far as I remember. Anet designed those because they WANTED everyone to get an equal chance of getting the living world (not raid cm hoard of gold, but living world) items. Now they didnt. And would you please stop with the constant "player driven-market"? It is irrelevant. Anet can make bad choices, too. Much like players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly ... Anet implements things how they decide them to be designed, not how people want them ... and they have reasons, even if we don't know them or like them. This isn't Burger King. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And no, I'm not going to stop with the 'player-driven market' stuff because it's the fundamental point here. It's irrelevant? What game you playing? Seems to be it's the MOST relevant point here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your confusion stems from the fact that in reality the market is not player-driven. Anet created the demand for the sigils and the price went up. If they increase supply by introducing another method of obtaining the sigils, the price will go down. You can argue that it is ultimately the players that decide whether they are actually going to want the thing anet introduced to increase demand or do the thing anet introduces to increase supply, but that is a willfully limited view of the actual cause of those changes in the economy . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only confusion is from the people that think creating supply and demand is the same thing as creating the conditions for it to happen. Anet creates the conditions, players create the supply/demand. Those aren't the same thing and if someone doesn't understand that difference, they don't appear to have the most basic level of qualification to have an informed opinion of the topic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Easy thought experiment: Anet creates a 'thing' that needs mat "X" from the TP .. but it's so awful that no one makes it EVER!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _Did that condition change supply or demand for that mat X?_ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet does not create supply or demand; players do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said, willfully limited . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except it covers the situation completely and accurately. I guess you didn't understand the experiment I proposed ... just like you have no understanding of who creates supply and demand in this game. /shrug. Being the loudest, most misunderstanding person in a room doesn't make a compelling argument. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When anet created login rewards and included mystic coins in those rewards, did anet create the supply by introducing the system and rewards, or did players create the supply by logging in . . ? > > > > > > > > > > > > The players create the supply, Arenanet once again set the framework for players to be able to create the supply. > > > > > > > > > > > > Supply only gets created after a specific action but gets created due to the developers design. > > > > > > > > > > > > Good example of demonstrating the difference between both. > > > > > > > > > > And if anet decided to remove the mystic coins from login rewards, would the players or anet be causing that reduction in supply . . ? > > > > > > > > Are we going in circles? Arenanet would change the framework thus reducing the supply created by players. > > > > > > > > Imagine iron ore in a mine. At what point does it become supply to the market? Was it billions of years ago or is it ones it is mined and refined? > > > > > > > > What you fail at is understanding that the term "supply" can refer to very different types of supply yet you use the term synonymous as though it always meant the same. > > > > > > No, that was actually a different question, though I can see that you are trying very hard not to answer it . . . > > > > The players not supplying the Mystic Coins is the reduction in supply. ArenaNet does not interact with the market directly. > > > > Arenanet changing the framework leads to players not being able to supply the market. > > > > That was very clear from my answer. > > That's just an evasion. It's like saying if anet introduced mystic coins as a drop from a certain mob, it would be the mob that was creating the supply by dropping the coin. The mob, not having any agency, can't actually do anything. The *players killing said mob and then selling the loot* adds to the supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finse.8526 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Gop.8713" said: >It's like saying if anet introduced mystic coins as a drop from a certain mob, it would be the mob that was creating the supply by dropping the coin. In all of the cases we are discussing anet is driving the bus, which is the question being answered if you look back up through the quoted posts . . . Even if some mob could potentially drop mystic coins, there still wouldn't be any mystic coin supply in the market unless players actually go out to kill the mob. Arenanet does not pump items in the economy, they just create the potential for players to do so. In that sense, Arenanet is not driving the bus at all. Rather, they give the bus to the players and let them drive with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Tanner Blackfeather.6509" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol of course it's relevant when there is a distinct hole in the ability to supply the market anywhere near what's required in order to quell price hikes and market manipulation.. nice attempt to smokescreen once again though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your opinion here does not determine if something is wrong. It's Anet decision to decide if they need to make an adjustment. You don't have enough information from the game to decide if there is a 'hole' in the ability to supply the market. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yah great way to handle business, and how accepting of you to give them a pass on this type of behavior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've yet to see an MMO that doesn't handle business this way. The game devs provide the experiences for players; players don't give that to them to implement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a wonderful passive aggressive environment they foster. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, JUST like every other game developer. You make it sound like this approach is unique to GW2. It's not. In fact, how else do you think they should operate without having increased costs for providing this service to us? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not a problem ... why would anyone commit to a game and think everything is equal for all people? The fact there is a market is a sure indication (or should be) to every player in this game that it's not designed for equality. Heck, just the fact that some people can play more than others is creating massive inequality between players; nothing a game dev could do can address that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, there's tons of things they could have done: add sigils of nullification to a vendor, add a recipe to craft them, make the armor recipe require a more common superior sigil, or allow any superior sigil to work with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or require account-bound items sold at a vendor instead of something the robber barons can hold for ransom, kind of like the griffin does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure ... they could have done tons of things. That's not for debate. We can imagine all sorts of things that could have been. But they didn't ... they did THIS thing. They did it for a reason. I don't know what that reason is. If it doesn't work out, we know they will address it because of past actions they have done on similar issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After 700+ posts, it amazes me as to how some people choose to support the whole sigil price topic - or downright troll others. A simple fact remains, one you just cannot ignore. That fact is how a minority of players got huge profit .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except that isn't a problem ... if it was, the market would have never been structured the way it is. Look, you play a game with a player driven market where that is going to happen. Get over it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, let's see: Domain of Kourna had the beetle, easily obtainable (cost-wise) by everyone. You needed certain defense events in Core Tyria, and some events in DoK map. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandswept isles had the animated backpack thingie, again, no biggie as far as gold investment went. It needed the Serpents Ire meta, which is another thing altogether. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Istan has the stellar weapons (no collection for that one, sadly) . Available to everyone, no tp cost attached. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Draconis Mons had the Druid backpack. You only needed to do time gated stuff each day (heart vendors) for 14 days. Again, available to everyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This time, in living story, Anet choose to use a sigil which isnt available to everyone. This is different. And it was a bad move. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > none of that has anything to do with Anet designing the game around people's requests, or any other thing Anet has implemented that has mats that you need from the market. Those examples, just like that one, are based on decisions Anet made on how to implement them. My point still stands: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The game has a player-driven market. There is nothing new here for Items that show up in new gear that are purchased from the market. it all behaves the same way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People did not request daily gated hearts, neither did they request Serpents Ire, as far as I remember. Anet designed those because they WANTED everyone to get an equal chance of getting the living world (not raid cm hoard of gold, but living world) items. Now they didnt. And would you please stop with the constant "player driven-market"? It is irrelevant. Anet can make bad choices, too. Much like players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly ... Anet implements things how they decide them to be designed, not how people want them ... and they have reasons, even if we don't know them or like them. This isn't Burger King. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And no, I'm not going to stop with the 'player-driven market' stuff because it's the fundamental point here. It's irrelevant? What game you playing? Seems to be it's the MOST relevant point here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your confusion stems from the fact that in reality the market is not player-driven. Anet created the demand for the sigils and the price went up. If they increase supply by introducing another method of obtaining the sigils, the price will go down. You can argue that it is ultimately the players that decide whether they are actually going to want the thing anet introduced to increase demand or do the thing anet introduces to increase supply, but that is a willfully limited view of the actual cause of those changes in the economy . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only confusion is from the people that think creating supply and demand is the same thing as creating the conditions for it to happen. Anet creates the conditions, players create the supply/demand. Those aren't the same thing and if someone doesn't understand that difference, they don't appear to have the most basic level of qualification to have an informed opinion of the topic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Easy thought experiment: Anet creates a 'thing' that needs mat "X" from the TP .. but it's so awful that no one makes it EVER!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _Did that condition change supply or demand for that mat X?_ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet does not create supply or demand; players do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said, willfully limited . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except it covers the situation completely and accurately. I guess you didn't understand the experiment I proposed ... just like you have no understanding of who creates supply and demand in this game. /shrug. Being the loudest, most misunderstanding person in a room doesn't make a compelling argument. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When anet created login rewards and included mystic coins in those rewards, did anet create the supply by introducing the system and rewards, or did players create the supply by logging in . . ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The players create the supply, Arenanet once again set the framework for players to be able to create the supply. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Supply only gets created after a specific action but gets created due to the developers design. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good example of demonstrating the difference between both. > > > > > > > > > > > > And if anet decided to remove the mystic coins from login rewards, would the players or anet be causing that reduction in supply . . ? > > > > > > > > > > Are we going in circles? Arenanet would change the framework thus reducing the supply created by players. > > > > > > > > > > Imagine iron ore in a mine. At what point does it become supply to the market? Was it billions of years ago or is it ones it is mined and refined? > > > > > > > > > > What you fail at is understanding that the term "supply" can refer to very different types of supply yet you use the term synonymous as though it always meant the same. > > > > > > > > No, that was actually a different question, though I can see that you are trying very hard not to answer it . . . > > > > > > The players not supplying the Mystic Coins is the reduction in supply. ArenaNet does not interact with the market directly. > > > > > > Arenanet changing the framework leads to players not being able to supply the market. > > > > > > That was very clear from my answer. > > > > That's just an evasion. It's like saying if anet introduced mystic coins as a drop from a certain mob, it would be the mob that was creating the supply by dropping the coin. > > The mob, not having any agency, can't actually do anything. The *players killing said mob and then selling the loot* adds to the supply. > To expand on this: - Arenanet designs the loot table for the mob, thus setting the framework for the supply into the game - Players kill the mob getting the loot thus adding to the supply into the game. - Players then either: A.) save the loot thus adding to the potential supply in game, but not the market B.) consume the loot themselves thus reducing their demand for said loot on the market C.) list the loot on the trading post thus adding to the supply on the market (which is paramount to deciding the price on said market). Multiple different types of supply (if we assume that the framework and potential supply can be counted as such) with different actions all affecting the price, but in the end only the final result: how much supply enters the market defines the function of price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreddo.9865 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 The drop rate is decided by the developers. If you have an item of 0.0001% chance its supply will be minimal no matter the players' efforts. The actual supply is influenced by the devs' design. Then I read about free market inside the game and I look in my inventory and I see soulbound, account bound, karma bought items restricted from being sold, etc. What free market theory regulates people's inventories and set rules at which items are to be sold or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Tanner Blackfeather.6509" said: > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol of course it's relevant when there is a distinct hole in the ability to supply the market anywhere near what's required in order to quell price hikes and market manipulation.. nice attempt to smokescreen once again though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your opinion here does not determine if something is wrong. It's Anet decision to decide if they need to make an adjustment. You don't have enough information from the game to decide if there is a 'hole' in the ability to supply the market. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yah great way to handle business, and how accepting of you to give them a pass on this type of behavior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've yet to see an MMO that doesn't handle business this way. The game devs provide the experiences for players; players don't give that to them to implement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a wonderful passive aggressive environment they foster. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, JUST like every other game developer. You make it sound like this approach is unique to GW2. It's not. In fact, how else do you think they should operate without having increased costs for providing this service to us? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not a problem ... why would anyone commit to a game and think everything is equal for all people? The fact there is a market is a sure indication (or should be) to every player in this game that it's not designed for equality. Heck, just the fact that some people can play more than others is creating massive inequality between players; nothing a game dev could do can address that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, there's tons of things they could have done: add sigils of nullification to a vendor, add a recipe to craft them, make the armor recipe require a more common superior sigil, or allow any superior sigil to work with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or require account-bound items sold at a vendor instead of something the robber barons can hold for ransom, kind of like the griffin does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure ... they could have done tons of things. That's not for debate. We can imagine all sorts of things that could have been. But they didn't ... they did THIS thing. They did it for a reason. I don't know what that reason is. If it doesn't work out, we know they will address it because of past actions they have done on similar issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After 700+ posts, it amazes me as to how some people choose to support the whole sigil price topic - or downright troll others. A simple fact remains, one you just cannot ignore. That fact is how a minority of players got huge profit .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except that isn't a problem ... if it was, the market would have never been structured the way it is. Look, you play a game with a player driven market where that is going to happen. Get over it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, let's see: Domain of Kourna had the beetle, easily obtainable (cost-wise) by everyone. You needed certain defense events in Core Tyria, and some events in DoK map. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandswept isles had the animated backpack thingie, again, no biggie as far as gold investment went. It needed the Serpents Ire meta, which is another thing altogether. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Istan has the stellar weapons (no collection for that one, sadly) . Available to everyone, no tp cost attached. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Draconis Mons had the Druid backpack. You only needed to do time gated stuff each day (heart vendors) for 14 days. Again, available to everyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This time, in living story, Anet choose to use a sigil which isnt available to everyone. This is different. And it was a bad move. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > none of that has anything to do with Anet designing the game around people's requests, or any other thing Anet has implemented that has mats that you need from the market. Those examples, just like that one, are based on decisions Anet made on how to implement them. My point still stands: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The game has a player-driven market. There is nothing new here for Items that show up in new gear that are purchased from the market. it all behaves the same way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People did not request daily gated hearts, neither did they request Serpents Ire, as far as I remember. Anet designed those because they WANTED everyone to get an equal chance of getting the living world (not raid cm hoard of gold, but living world) items. Now they didnt. And would you please stop with the constant "player driven-market"? It is irrelevant. Anet can make bad choices, too. Much like players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly ... Anet implements things how they decide them to be designed, not how people want them ... and they have reasons, even if we don't know them or like them. This isn't Burger King. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And no, I'm not going to stop with the 'player-driven market' stuff because it's the fundamental point here. It's irrelevant? What game you playing? Seems to be it's the MOST relevant point here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your confusion stems from the fact that in reality the market is not player-driven. Anet created the demand for the sigils and the price went up. If they increase supply by introducing another method of obtaining the sigils, the price will go down. You can argue that it is ultimately the players that decide whether they are actually going to want the thing anet introduced to increase demand or do the thing anet introduces to increase supply, but that is a willfully limited view of the actual cause of those changes in the economy . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only confusion is from the people that think creating supply and demand is the same thing as creating the conditions for it to happen. Anet creates the conditions, players create the supply/demand. Those aren't the same thing and if someone doesn't understand that difference, they don't appear to have the most basic level of qualification to have an informed opinion of the topic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Easy thought experiment: Anet creates a 'thing' that needs mat "X" from the TP .. but it's so awful that no one makes it EVER!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _Did that condition change supply or demand for that mat X?_ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet does not create supply or demand; players do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said, willfully limited . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except it covers the situation completely and accurately. I guess you didn't understand the experiment I proposed ... just like you have no understanding of who creates supply and demand in this game. /shrug. Being the loudest, most misunderstanding person in a room doesn't make a compelling argument. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When anet created login rewards and included mystic coins in those rewards, did anet create the supply by introducing the system and rewards, or did players create the supply by logging in . . ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The players create the supply, Arenanet once again set the framework for players to be able to create the supply. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Supply only gets created after a specific action but gets created due to the developers design. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good example of demonstrating the difference between both. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if anet decided to remove the mystic coins from login rewards, would the players or anet be causing that reduction in supply . . ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Are we going in circles? Arenanet would change the framework thus reducing the supply created by players. > > > > > > > > > > > > Imagine iron ore in a mine. At what point does it become supply to the market? Was it billions of years ago or is it ones it is mined and refined? > > > > > > > > > > > > What you fail at is understanding that the term "supply" can refer to very different types of supply yet you use the term synonymous as though it always meant the same. > > > > > > > > > > No, that was actually a different question, though I can see that you are trying very hard not to answer it . . . > > > > > > > > The players not supplying the Mystic Coins is the reduction in supply. ArenaNet does not interact with the market directly. > > > > > > > > Arenanet changing the framework leads to players not being able to supply the market. > > > > > > > > That was very clear from my answer. > > > > > > That's just an evasion. It's like saying if anet introduced mystic coins as a drop from a certain mob, it would be the mob that was creating the supply by dropping the coin. > > > > The mob, not having any agency, can't actually do anything. The *players killing said mob and then selling the loot* adds to the supply. > > > > To expand on this: > - Arenanet designs the loot table for the mob, thus setting the framework for the supply into the game > - Players kill the mob getting the loot thus adding to the supply into the game. > - Players then either: > A.) save the loot thus adding to the potential supply in game, but not the market > B.) consume the loot themselves thus reducing their demand for said loot on the market > C.) list the loot on the trading post thus adding to the supply on the market (which is paramount to deciding the price on said market). > > Multiple different types of supply (if we assume that the framework and potential supply can be counted as such) with different actions all affecting the price, but in the end only the final result: how much supply enters the market defines the function of price. Except you still want to blasé over the fact that when a framework is designed around an unreliable source of supply whether that be for personal consumption or for placing into the wider market, demand becomes artificially controlled by ANET.. you can paint this what ever colour you wish in your effort to defend the manipulation of the sigils price, but it all comes back to the same thing... ANET implemented the collection and thus supplanted desire throughout the player base for a nice shiny new armour skin, placing it front and centre of their content release promo. That "condition" was created with a known issue of viable, reliable supply for both personal or "free market use". This served two purposes. 1 to allow the sigls forecasted demand to far outstrip said supply potential for a forecasted period of time., whilst at the same time utilising those in a position to flip any/all current known supply within the "free market" where the price could be grossly inflated until demand either natural falls or a miraculous shift in supply enters the game. ANET knew full well that by keeping any potential supply into the game as a whole, controlled largely by RNG, demand COULD/SHOULD/WOULD remain high long enough to meet their forecasted revenue, thus steering players to a known viable course of action .. buying gems. Try to smokescreen the issue with science and logic all you wish but this was nothing more than a pressure pull on players real money by using unfair practices across the whole playerbase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Gop.8713" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol of course it's relevant when there is a distinct hole in the ability to supply the market anywhere near what's required in order to quell price hikes and market manipulation.. nice attempt to smokescreen once again though. > > > > > > > > > > > > Your opinion here does not determine if something is wrong. It's Anet decision to decide if they need to make an adjustment. You don't have enough information from the game to decide if there is a 'hole' in the ability to supply the market. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yah great way to handle business, and how accepting of you to give them a pass on this type of behavior > > > > > > > > > > > > I've yet to see an MMO that doesn't handle business this way. The game devs provide the experiences for players; players don't give that to them to implement. > > > > > > > > > > What a wonderful passive aggressive environment they foster. > > > > > > > > Yes, JUST like every other game developer. You make it sound like this approach is unique to GW2. It's not. In fact, how else do you think they should operate without having increased costs for providing this service to us? > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not a problem ... why would anyone commit to a game and think everything is equal for all people? The fact there is a market is a sure indication (or should be) to every player in this game that it's not designed for equality. Heck, just the fact that some people can play more than others is creating massive inequality between players; nothing a game dev could do can address that. > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, there's tons of things they could have done: add sigils of nullification to a vendor, add a recipe to craft them, make the armor recipe require a more common superior sigil, or allow any superior sigil to work with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or require account-bound items sold at a vendor instead of something the robber barons can hold for ransom, kind of like the griffin does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure ... they could have done tons of things. That's not for debate. We can imagine all sorts of things that could have been. But they didn't ... they did THIS thing. They did it for a reason. I don't know what that reason is. If it doesn't work out, we know they will address it because of past actions they have done on similar issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > After 700+ posts, it amazes me as to how some people choose to support the whole sigil price topic - or downright troll others. A simple fact remains, one you just cannot ignore. That fact is how a minority of players got huge profit .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except that isn't a problem ... if it was, the market would have never been structured the way it is. Look, you play a game with a player driven market where that is going to happen. Get over it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, let's see: Domain of Kourna had the beetle, easily obtainable (cost-wise) by everyone. You needed certain defense events in Core Tyria, and some events in DoK map. > > > > > > > > > Sandswept isles had the animated backpack thingie, again, no biggie as far as gold investment went. It needed the Serpents Ire meta, which is another thing altogether. > > > > > > > > > Istan has the stellar weapons (no collection for that one, sadly) . Available to everyone, no tp cost attached. > > > > > > > > > Draconis Mons had the Druid backpack. You only needed to do time gated stuff each day (heart vendors) for 14 days. Again, available to everyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This time, in living story, Anet choose to use a sigil which isnt available to everyone. This is different. And it was a bad move. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > none of that has anything to do with Anet designing the game around people's requests, or any other thing Anet has implemented that has mats that you need from the market. Those examples, just like that one, are based on decisions Anet made on how to implement them. My point still stands: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The game has a player-driven market. There is nothing new here for Items that show up in new gear that are purchased from the market. it all behaves the same way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People did not request daily gated hearts, neither did they request Serpents Ire, as far as I remember. Anet designed those because they WANTED everyone to get an equal chance of getting the living world (not raid cm hoard of gold, but living world) items. Now they didnt. And would you please stop with the constant "player driven-market"? It is irrelevant. Anet can make bad choices, too. Much like players. > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly ... Anet implements things how they decide them to be designed, not how people want them ... and they have reasons, even if we don't know them or like them. This isn't Burger King. > > > > > > > > > > > > And no, I'm not going to stop with the 'player-driven market' stuff because it's the fundamental point here. It's irrelevant? What game you playing? Seems to be it's the MOST relevant point here. > > > > > > > > > > I think your confusion stems from the fact that in reality the market is not player-driven. Anet created the demand for the sigils and the price went up. If they increase supply by introducing another method of obtaining the sigils, the price will go down. You can argue that it is ultimately the players that decide whether they are actually going to want the thing anet introduced to increase demand or do the thing anet introduces to increase supply, but that is a willfully limited view of the actual cause of those changes in the economy . . . > > > > > > > > The only confusion is from the people that think creating supply and demand is the same thing as creating the conditions for it to happen. Anet creates the conditions, players create the supply/demand. Those aren't the same thing and if someone doesn't understand that difference, they don't appear to have the most basic level of qualification to have an informed opinion of the topic. > > > > > > > > Easy thought experiment: Anet creates a 'thing' that needs mat "X" from the TP .. but it's so awful that no one makes it EVER!! > > > > > > > > _Did that condition change supply or demand for that mat X?_ > > > > > > > > Anet does not create supply or demand; players do. > > > > > > Like I said, willfully limited . . . > > > > Except it covers the situation completely and accurately. I guess you didn't understand the experiment I proposed ... just like you have no understanding of who creates supply and demand in this game. /shrug. Being the loudest, most misunderstanding person in a room doesn't make a compelling argument. > > When anet created login rewards and included mystic coins in those rewards, did anet create the supply by introducing the system and rewards, or did players create the supply by logging in . . ? Players ... because players make them available as supply on the TP. MC aren't part of the market ... until they are PUT on the market by players. > @"Gop.8713" said: > And if anet decided to remove the mystic coins from login rewards, would the players or anet be causing that reduction in supply . . ? Again ... PLAYERS, because supply is about availability on the market. If Players hoarded EVERY MC they ever got from whatever source they came from, then there is no supply on the market even though Anet makes conditions where players still get MC's. There is NO supply to players through the market in this case. That's what is important in this discussion because it's necessary to access market for efficient crafting in this game. IF you have some baggage from other MMOs where you think you have to farm everything, drop it off at the curb; it doesn't apply here. I see you didn't work through my thought experiment :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Tanner Blackfeather.6509" said: > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol of course it's relevant when there is a distinct hole in the ability to supply the market anywhere near what's required in order to quell price hikes and market manipulation.. nice attempt to smokescreen once again though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your opinion here does not determine if something is wrong. It's Anet decision to decide if they need to make an adjustment. You don't have enough information from the game to decide if there is a 'hole' in the ability to supply the market. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And there isn't anything wrong with that. They have done it since the game was released. This isn't something new that we haven't seen before; Anet has released content requiring mats that increased in price on the TP tons of times. This is no different. People feel left out all time; I mean, again, this isn't anything new. If Anet thinks they need to make an adjustment, they will do it; they have in the past. It doesn't make sense to give all people the feeling of being included; that's just not realistic and it never has been. I'm not even sure that's an honest statement from you. If you have the gold, you have access to what you need. That's ALWAYS been the it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huge difference.. in the past those items that were based around short supply were wider reaching items through the life of the game.. this collection has a much shorter window until it becomes unimportant except for the few new or returning players that missed it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Items that required things like Silver doubloons and Mystic Coins , yes they saw a rise in price, but nothing like what were seeing here and they did have some guaranteed supply and weren't just largely reliant on luck. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This skin is account bound unlike things like Jugger which can be traded. Adjustments that were then made by ANET were done so because the items that they affected were permanent within the game, which already required considerable time and effort (less so these days granted) and they were re-craftable and therefore required a suitable amount of supply or once again the market would be manipulated and cornered beyond belief.. as well you know. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know you want to be seen as the voice of reason in this, very admirable, though why I am unsure and makes me somewhat suspicious if I am honest, but bottom line is there is no other reason that this collection was implemented like it has been except to utilise a known cause and effect to create a grossly manipulated market in an effort to steer players to gem purchases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is absolutely nothing wrong in ANET seeking ways to make revenue off the back of their work, but it should of been done fairly across the playerbase and not push more wealth into the far reaching game accounts of the few. Unless of course they feel they need those market manipulators for future endeavours... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a material on the TP ... how it gets there is COMPLETELY transparent to players buying it from there ... as it should be. Whether the difference is huge or not from other 'things' is irrelevant. You guys keep throwing in these subtle things that don't matter. What matters is if it's accessible. Don't complicate it so it back up your position. It's simply a matter of accessibility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dante.1763" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Pirindolo.9427" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If after 700+ posts without a single word from Anet ppl think that they will do/say anything about this issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will tell you what Anet thinks about this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) All is working now as planned > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Pay 500-800G for your armor, if you like it so much (and buy gems to convert them in gold if you don't have enough) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Play 25 alts to level them to 64 and get a shiny sigil (and buy gems to buy boosters that will make the leveling process so much quicker) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A few things, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.) Anet doesnt always comment on things but they do read then. Posting *anything* in a thread like this would bring nothing BUT toxicity and rage at whichever person was told to post the comment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.) Expecting a fix so quickly to something thats already coded is foolish. I dont know how their coding works, but its been shown repeatedly that its not easy for them to change recipes/achievements etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually I disagree, in the past when obvious issues have smacked the players in the face or there is an issue that can't be ignored that content gets disabled until the fix is in.. and they do not remain silent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not perceived as an issue to ANET because it is intended, therefore they saw no reason to disable the content or fix anything or even comment on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put a fix in now would only make it just as unfair for those that have already bitten the bullet and paid the TP overlords for their stellar work in manipulating the Market for ANET, therefore I do not perceive any kind of market correction or recipe being added.. but what I do expect is more silence and let the noise die down as it surely will., but I expect more of this kind of creativity going forward... which is why I think this reversal in the way they want in game items/collections to be completed will only hurt the game going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this is an issue tons of people complaining and no response from anet what kind of pr is that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure it's an issue for the people complaining, but that's not a reason for Anet to respond to them. If you want an answer, just look at how Anet has handled past history for similar things. Their past behaviour is indicative of what will happen in the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yah great way to handle business, and how accepting of you to give them a pass on this type of behavior > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've yet to see an MMO that doesn't handle business this way. The game devs provide the experiences for players; players don't give that to them to implement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a wonderful passive aggressive environment they foster. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, JUST like every other game developer. You make it sound like this approach is unique to GW2. It's not. In fact, how else do you think they should operate without having increased costs for providing this service to us? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not a problem ... why would anyone commit to a game and think everything is equal for all people? The fact there is a market is a sure indication (or should be) to every player in this game that it's not designed for equality. Heck, just the fact that some people can play more than others is creating massive inequality between players; nothing a game dev could do can address that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, there's tons of things they could have done: add sigils of nullification to a vendor, add a recipe to craft them, make the armor recipe require a more common superior sigil, or allow any superior sigil to work with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or require account-bound items sold at a vendor instead of something the robber barons can hold for ransom, kind of like the griffin does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure ... they could have done tons of things. That's not for debate. We can imagine all sorts of things that could have been. But they didn't ... they did THIS thing. They did it for a reason. I don't know what that reason is. If it doesn't work out, we know they will address it because of past actions they have done on similar issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After 700+ posts, it amazes me as to how some people choose to support the whole sigil price topic - or downright troll others. A simple fact remains, one you just cannot ignore. That fact is how a minority of players got huge profit .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except that isn't a problem ... if it was, the market would have never been structured the way it is. Look, you play a game with a player driven market where that is going to happen. Get over it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, let's see: Domain of Kourna had the beetle, easily obtainable (cost-wise) by everyone. You needed certain defense events in Core Tyria, and some events in DoK map. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandswept isles had the animated backpack thingie, again, no biggie as far as gold investment went. It needed the Serpents Ire meta, which is another thing altogether. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Istan has the stellar weapons (no collection for that one, sadly) . Available to everyone, no tp cost attached. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Draconis Mons had the Druid backpack. You only needed to do time gated stuff each day (heart vendors) for 14 days. Again, available to everyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This time, in living story, Anet choose to use a sigil which isnt available to everyone. This is different. And it was a bad move. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > none of that has anything to do with Anet designing the game around people's requests, or any other thing Anet has implemented that has mats that you need from the market. Those examples, just like that one, are based on decisions Anet made on how to implement them. My point still stands: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The game has a player-driven market. There is nothing new here for Items that show up in new gear that are purchased from the market. it all behaves the same way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People did not request daily gated hearts, neither did they request Serpents Ire, as far as I remember. Anet designed those because they WANTED everyone to get an equal chance of getting the living world (not raid cm hoard of gold, but living world) items. Now they didnt. And would you please stop with the constant "player driven-market"? It is irrelevant. Anet can make bad choices, too. Much like players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly ... Anet implements things how they decide them to be designed, not how people want them ... and they have reasons, even if we don't know them or like them. This isn't Burger King. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And no, I'm not going to stop with the 'player-driven market' stuff because it's the fundamental point here. It's irrelevant? What game you playing? Seems to be it's the MOST relevant point here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your confusion stems from the fact that in reality the market is not player-driven. Anet created the demand for the sigils and the price went up. If they increase supply by introducing another method of obtaining the sigils, the price will go down. You can argue that it is ultimately the players that decide whether they are actually going to want the thing anet introduced to increase demand or do the thing anet introduces to increase supply, but that is a willfully limited view of the actual cause of those changes in the economy . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only confusion is from the people that think creating supply and demand is the same thing as creating the conditions for it to happen. Anet creates the conditions, players create the supply/demand. Those aren't the same thing and if someone doesn't understand that difference, they don't appear to have the most basic level of qualification to have an informed opinion of the topic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Easy thought experiment: Anet creates a 'thing' that needs mat "X" from the TP .. but it's so awful that no one makes it EVER!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _Did that condition change supply or demand for that mat X?_ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet does not create supply or demand; players do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said, willfully limited . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except it covers the situation completely and accurately. I guess you didn't understand the experiment I proposed ... just like you have no understanding of who creates supply and demand in this game. /shrug. Being the loudest, most misunderstanding person in a room doesn't make a compelling argument. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When anet created login rewards and included mystic coins in those rewards, did anet create the supply by introducing the system and rewards, or did players create the supply by logging in . . ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The players create the supply, Arenanet once again set the framework for players to be able to create the supply. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Supply only gets created after a specific action but gets created due to the developers design. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good example of demonstrating the difference between both. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if anet decided to remove the mystic coins from login rewards, would the players or anet be causing that reduction in supply . . ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are we going in circles? Arenanet would change the framework thus reducing the supply created by players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Imagine iron ore in a mine. At what point does it become supply to the market? Was it billions of years ago or is it ones it is mined and refined? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you fail at is understanding that the term "supply" can refer to very different types of supply yet you use the term synonymous as though it always meant the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > No, that was actually a different question, though I can see that you are trying very hard not to answer it . . . > > > > > > > > > > The players not supplying the Mystic Coins is the reduction in supply. ArenaNet does not interact with the market directly. > > > > > > > > > > Arenanet changing the framework leads to players not being able to supply the market. > > > > > > > > > > That was very clear from my answer. > > > > > > > > That's just an evasion. It's like saying if anet introduced mystic coins as a drop from a certain mob, it would be the mob that was creating the supply by dropping the coin. > > > > > > The mob, not having any agency, can't actually do anything. The *players killing said mob and then selling the loot* adds to the supply. > > > > > > > To expand on this: > > - Arenanet designs the loot table for the mob, thus setting the framework for the supply into the game > > - Players kill the mob getting the loot thus adding to the supply into the game. > > - Players then either: > > A.) save the loot thus adding to the potential supply in game, but not the market > > B.) consume the loot themselves thus reducing their demand for said loot on the market > > C.) list the loot on the trading post thus adding to the supply on the market (which is paramount to deciding the price on said market). > > > > Multiple different types of supply (if we assume that the framework and potential supply can be counted as such) with different actions all affecting the price, but in the end only the final result: how much supply enters the market defines the function of price. > > Except you still want to blasé over the fact that when a framework is designed around an unreliable source of supply whether that be for personal consumption or for placing into the wider market, demand becomes artificially controlled by ANET.. you can paint this what ever colour you wish in your effort to defend the manipulation of the sigils price, but it all comes back to the same thing... ANET implemented the collection and thus supplanted desire throughout the player base for a nice shiny new armour skin, placing it front and centre of their content release promo. > That "condition" was created with a known issue of viable, reliable supply for both personal or "free market use". > This served two purposes. 1 to allow the sigls forecasted demand to far outstrip said supply potential for a forecasted period of time., whilst at the same time utilising those in a position to flip any/all current known supply within the "free market" where the price could be grossly inflated until demand either natural falls or a miraculous shift in supply enters the game. > ANET knew full well that by keeping any potential supply into the game as a whole, controlled largely by RNG, demand COULD/SHOULD/WOULD remain high long enough to meet their forecasted revenue, thus steering players to a known viable course of action .. buying gems. > > Try to smokescreen the issue with science and logic all you wish but this was nothing more than a pressure pull on players real money by using unfair practices across the whole playerbase. I tried nothing, I explained how everything is balanced with each other and which terminology and definition fits to which type of supply so we can finally all work with 1 set of definitions and terms. I never said I disagree that Arenanet can shape the framework so that players are disadvantaged. I do care when people lump different definitions together (especially when the same term can apply to different things). I did not smoke screen anything since I did not address the issue of how Arenanet balanced the current situation. I was responding to once again a factually incorrect vague nonsense comment explaining how once again certain terms were used incorrectly to try to establish incorrect arguments. Obviously the price increased because the framework implemented creates higher demand from players with a low possibility to create supply. I never disagreed on this issue in this thread. Stop reading into things I write what you want to read in, this was never even remotely addressed by me here. Are you really going to tell me you agree more with some ones let's call it "fluent definition of supply" which is clearly incorrect from an economic perspective only because you agree more with their position on the design issue (which is a completely different issue)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > Except you still want to blasé over the fact that when a framework is designed around an unreliable source of supply whether that be for personal consumption or for placing into the wider market, demand becomes artificially controlled by ANET.. Seems appropriate, since you are stating things as fact that you don't know. You don't have any idea how unreliable a source this is; you don't have the data to do so. Besides, if it is unreliable, we have history that says Anet will do something about it. You don't know why Anet choose this sigil, you can't assume that being a 'unreliable source' isn't part of that decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Finse.8526" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > >It's like saying if anet introduced mystic coins as a drop from a certain mob, it would be the mob that was creating the supply by dropping the coin. In all of the cases we are discussing anet is driving the bus, which is the question being answered if you look back up through the quoted posts . . . > > Even if some mob could potentially drop mystic coins, there still wouldn't be any mystic coin supply in the market unless players actually go out to kill the mob. And even if players go out, kill the mob and sell the loot, there won't be any supply unless the mob actually drops mystic coins. Both are a factor. > Arenanet does not pump items in the economy, they just create the potential for players to do so. In that sense, Arenanet is not driving the bus at all. Rather, they give the bus to the players and let them drive with it. The better analogy would be, that Arenanet doesn't drive the bus. They however build the road and tell you where you can drive, and where you can't. You don't have to drive in the direction they pointed you at, but if you do want to drive, you can do it only on the lanes _they_ designed, which are heavily restricted. And you have no control over that part at all. > @"Obtena.7952" said: > Besides, if it is unreliable, we have history that says Anet will do something about it. Do we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaththea.5079 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 I WISH I had had the ten extra guild when I was new. And yes. I did check the tp on each choice during leveling. It was all New and I had about one gold total when I hit 80. Ten gold is enough to buy a complete set of exotic gear these days. That gear will allow the new player to much more fully enjoy the tougher content in HOT and POF. Yes they might regret not having saved _one_ sigil but hopefully by the time they get through everything to the collection they will have leveled other toons. I am not referring to ftp players...they wouldn't be able to play the chapter anyway. Nor the expansions. Of course, as argued above, not everyone DOES look at all options, uses it, or saves it. But that doesn't take away a nearly effortless source of gold that would be very useful to someone new. Also this is Etria, somehow logged in here with my alt account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Since there are so many pages now, I will repeat what I wrote before and can only recommend following my advice (then this thread will become pointless): **Simply order your sigils at a reasonable price.** Problem solved. I ordered at 2-3g at a time when the price was already beyond 10g and received my sigils within hours. Nobody is forcing you to pay such a horrendous amount of gold. Be smart, have patience. If people stopped buying at those high prices, prices would never have skyrocketted like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalendraf.9521 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Ashantara.8731" said: > Since there are so many pages now, I will repeat what I wrote before and can only recommend following my advice (then this thread will become pointless): > > **Simply order your sigils at a reasonable price.** Problem solved. I ordered at 2-3g at a time when the price was already beyond 10g and received my sigils within hours. Nobody is forcing you to pay such a horrendous amount of gold. Be smart, have patience. If people stopped buying at those high prices, prices would never have skyrocketted like that. A 2 to 3 gold order today will likely sit unfilled for months or even years at this point, all the while tying up your gold on the TP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaunIOW.1672 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Anet should have chosen a sigil or rune that can be crafted, and not rely on a rare drop especially as so many are needed, although why a weapon sigil was chosen to make armour is beyond me anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 > @"Dante.1763" said: > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said: > > stop complaining about price its to low as its now to it should go up to 26gold since its limited therefor valuble > > No one piece of a collection thats not for an ascended or legendary item should cost this much. Except exotic items can cost a lot, too. See a large amount of exotic mystic forge skins such as Mjolnir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palador.2170 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 And now we know, there's nothing in the patch notes to indicate a fix. Price is going on up, kids! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phandaria.4891 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Sad if this means Anet's decision is to let the market block story related achievement and skins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ankzu.2658 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Very disappointed that they are allowing this to continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanche Neige.7241 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Supply : 815 Demand : 4,258 Well done, Anet, so you Don't mind a few players are holding hostage this part of the game by having bought all the supply when it was cheap and are now selling them slowly at inflated prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixxx.8230 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Well, I got 8 characters to 64 so far, might as well finish the rest up till 25 :-] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyrulisse.1246 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Amazing A.net. Completely out of touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Asdasd.6194 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 pre patch it was 12 gold, im afraid to log in and see how much it increased now that the mini-panick is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezremar.5186 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Well, since I found out that i needed 25 of these sigils for me this map died and as I see , it will stay dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seteruss.4058 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 i'm not going to finish this collection at all. Sad, as said above, that anet leave this untouched.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirindolo.9427 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 See? I told you guys. Everything is working as intended, and there won't be any changes. Never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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