FallenSentinel.9065 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 I'm pretty terrible with builds so I'll open with that admission. Anyway I haven't played Guardian since release and figured now was a decent time to get back into it. But I find Firebrand to be fairly squishy for heavy armor and I don't really get why everyone is saying it's god-tier DPS. What am I missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
setdog.1592 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 > @FallenSentinel.9065 said: > I'm pretty terrible with builds so I'll open with that admission. Anyway I haven't played Guardian since release and figured now was a decent time to get back into it. But I find Firebrand to be fairly squishy for heavy armor and I don't really get why everyone is saying it's god-tier DPS. What am I missing? i am by no means an expert, but here is what ive been reading. someone did a condi firebrand benchmark dps test, on a training golem, and it was close to 50k dps. that is very significant. But the tradeoff is exactly what you elude to, its a very squishy firebrand build that does that level of damage. Firebrand is squishy if you go that god tier damage route. But it doesnt have to played that way. I am fully enjoying the firebrand spec with Shaman exotic gear, axe/torch, mace/shield. not even using food/util buffs, its not a killer damage spec but im able to play all the pve related content and not constantly be sent back to a waypoint, which for me is great as I get to know my firebrand guardian again and play the game. i can make improvements to the build and gear over time. but so far i do really like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FallenSentinel.9065 Posted September 28, 2017 Author Share Posted September 28, 2017 How did they even get those levels of DPS? (I'm talking weps/utilities here) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
setdog.1592 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 > @FallenSentinel.9065 said: > How did they even get those levels of DPS? (I'm talking weps/utilities here) i dont know how or what exactly the build is but i do think there is a video online somewhere. i dont pay attention too much to min/maxing anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaCoty.5721 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 > @setdog.1592 said: > > @FallenSentinel.9065 said: > > I'm pretty terrible with builds so I'll open with that admission. Anyway I haven't played Guardian since release and figured now was a decent time to get back into it. But I find Firebrand to be fairly squishy for heavy armor and I don't really get why everyone is saying it's god-tier DPS. What am I missing? > > i am by no means an expert, but here is what ive been reading. someone did a condi firebrand benchmark dps test, on a training golem, and it was close to 50k dps. > that is very significant. But the tradeoff is exactly what you elude to, its a very squishy firebrand build that does that level of damage. > > Firebrand is squishy if you go that god tier damage route. But it doesnt have to played that way. I am fully enjoying the firebrand spec with Shaman exotic gear, axe/torch, mace/shield. not even using food/util buffs, its not a killer damage spec but im able to play all the pve related content and not constantly be sent back to a waypoint, which for me is great as I get to know my firebrand guardian again and play the game. > > i can make improvements to the build and gear over time. but so far i do really like it. This is false. Firebrand on their own deals like 33k dps - but there is an overtune with their ability which causes massive party-wide burst damage (I can't recall the name). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaLee.5102 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Why not ask in the guardian subforum? Plenty of discussions about it already there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriOri.8724 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 > @DakotaCoty.5721 said: > > @setdog.1592 said: > > > @FallenSentinel.9065 said: > > > I'm pretty terrible with builds so I'll open with that admission. Anyway I haven't played Guardian since release and figured now was a decent time to get back into it. But I find Firebrand to be fairly squishy for heavy armor and I don't really get why everyone is saying it's god-tier DPS. What am I missing? > > > > i am by no means an expert, but here is what ive been reading. someone did a condi firebrand benchmark dps test, on a training golem, and it was close to 50k dps. > > that is very significant. But the tradeoff is exactly what you elude to, its a very squishy firebrand build that does that level of damage. > > > > Firebrand is squishy if you go that god tier damage route. But it doesnt have to played that way. I am fully enjoying the firebrand spec with Shaman exotic gear, axe/torch, mace/shield. not even using food/util buffs, its not a killer damage spec but im able to play all the pve related content and not constantly be sent back to a waypoint, which for me is great as I get to know my firebrand guardian again and play the game. > > > > i can make improvements to the build and gear over time. but so far i do really like it. > > This is false. > > Firebrand on their own deals like 33k dps - but there is an overtune with their ability which causes massive party-wide burst damage (I can't recall the name). 33k personal DPS on top of group support is stupidly broken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMAI.5892 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 The gear is condition (vipers, sinisters, and grievers are popular choices) based because those damage numbers are coming from burning in Tome of Justice. ToJ also has Ashes of the Just on skill 5 that will give the party burning damage based on the FB's condition damage (burn stacks)- this gets added into the FBs DPS (like Venom) which takes them from ~33K DPS to ~47-48K DPS. Weapons are mainly scepter/torch, but by no means absolute. As someone else mentioned, this is a full on condi build. You will melt things fast, but they can melt you fast too. I'd say the 48K also depends heavily on lower cool downs and/or the trait that lets Justice refresh on a kill. So against a solo target with nothing to lower CDs and/or no party - you're looking more about 33K max. You can lay down a lot of burn stacks with ToJ (I think my max has been 25 but you can get more from all reports). Downside - It's heavily burning damage focused so anything immune to fire or that has condi cleanse can lower the damage output p. quick. Alot of people recommend Balth runes because between those, traits, and I think a food item, you can get 100% burn duration without selecting gear that provides expertise. Tome of Resolve is meh - as it leans too much on blast finishers to give decent healing in my (limited) experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSLongK.8961 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 > @OriOri.8724 said: > > @DakotaCoty.5721 said: > > > @setdog.1592 said: > > > > @FallenSentinel.9065 said: > > > > I'm pretty terrible with builds so I'll open with that admission. Anyway I haven't played Guardian since release and figured now was a decent time to get back into it. But I find Firebrand to be fairly squishy for heavy armor and I don't really get why everyone is saying it's god-tier DPS. What am I missing? > > > > > > i am by no means an expert, but here is what ive been reading. someone did a condi firebrand benchmark dps test, on a training golem, and it was close to 50k dps. > > > that is very significant. But the tradeoff is exactly what you elude to, its a very squishy firebrand build that does that level of damage. > > > > > > Firebrand is squishy if you go that god tier damage route. But it doesnt have to played that way. I am fully enjoying the firebrand spec with Shaman exotic gear, axe/torch, mace/shield. not even using food/util buffs, its not a killer damage spec but im able to play all the pve related content and not constantly be sent back to a waypoint, which for me is great as I get to know my firebrand guardian again and play the game. > > > > > > i can make improvements to the build and gear over time. but so far i do really like it. > > > > This is false. > > > > Firebrand on their own deals like 33k dps - but there is an overtune with their ability which causes massive party-wide burst damage (I can't recall the name). > > 33k personal DPS on top of group support is stupidly broken Consider this: Its not that absurd since its been the norm for a while in gw2. ofc they eventually nerf down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptAurellian.9537 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 > @RSLongK.8961 said: > > @OriOri.8724 said: > > 33k personal DPS on top of group support is stupidly broken > > And what is that highly useful link going to tell us? That numbers higher than 33k were/are possible? That guardian got shafted with the May patch? Anything relevant? Ori is just stating the obvious - the current iteration of FB, or rather AotJ, is utterly broken and needs to be brought in line urgently. The same applies to a few other dps builds (staff weaver comes to mind) and, of course, to my long term favourites, the holy support trinity of PS/Druid/Chrono. Unfortunately, my trust in the class devs is nearly non-existent, so I don't expect any of those problems to be handled in a reasonable and timely way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSLongK.8961 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Isnt it more viable, as in part of meta, now, since its bringing comparable dps AND support? considering the past nefs. i was desconsidering spvp and wvw if that got confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purgatori.3645 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Im just going to straight up say that I maxed Firebrand the first day and preffered my Dragonhunter. Im not sure if its just because Im used to it, but I didnt like Firebrand at all. Maybe since its already maxed I will try again when tested builds become available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahlen.7591 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 I hope they don't overnerf. It's almost purely Ashes of the Just that is buoying up firebrand DPS with venomshare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 > @Purgatori.3645 said: > Im just going to straight up say that I maxed Firebrand the first day and preffered my Dragonhunter. Im not sure if its just because Im used to it, but I didnt like Firebrand at all. Maybe since its already maxed I will try again when tested builds become available. Kind of funny because I was kind of meh about Firebrand during the demo. Took a fresh look at it after the first set of changes though and found a number of potentially interesting combos. Playing all 9 elites and Firebrand was the hidden jewel in the batch. Its got a nice mix of damage/survive-ability & utility. Like the flow and changes to the virtue and it ups the skill level for the class a bit which is nice. Still have a Dragonhunter and Guardian as well, but really enjoying it so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptAurellian.9537 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 > @Ahlen.7591 said: > I hope they don't overnerf. It's almost purely Ashes of the Just that is buoying up firebrand DPS with venomshare. Right. From the numbers I've seen, solo FB is around 30k plus minus a bit. That would mean that touching nothing but AotJ might already do the balancing job - and the devs couldn't break too much in that process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeskies.1536 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Quickfire adds like 4k DPS per additional person. Just need to cut Ashes of the Just from Quickfire from 2 to 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InJustice.8327 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 > @Mikeskies.1536 said: > Quickfire adds like 4k DPS per additional person. Just need to cut Ashes of the Just from Quickfire from 2 to 1. I 100% agree with that statement and I hope that is the route that ANET goes if they do nerf the firebrand (which is inevitable). That would satisfy those that main guardian and love the playstyle of the firebrand but also satisfy the community as it won't be super overpowered. This is my opinion on the subject :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azoqu.8917 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Ashes of the Just is the problem with the insane numbers, but just for perspective for people: Sun Spirit applies 2 stacks of 3s burn every ~8s (75% chance per hit on an 8s CD) AotJ applies 2 stacks of 3s burn every 12s with the tome (and another stack with the tome trait) Quickfire apples 2 stacks of 3s burn every 10s The main differences between AotJ and Sun Spirit is that AotJ can double proc in the window (though in fights without adds it's more like 1.33 times per window) and it scales off the Users stats so that a chrono does the same with an Ashes proc as a cPS, druid, condi user, and power user. Meanwhile SS scales off the buffed person's stats so only a cPS and condi user gets the full benefit. It would be interesting to see just how much damage the SS does if it acted like a venom as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 > @RSLongK.8961 said: > Isnt it more viable, as in part of meta, now, since its bringing comparable dps AND support? considering the past nefs. i was desconsidering spvp and wvw if that got confused. As in "overpowered". Too much dps paired with too much utility and all of it way too easy to achieve. Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying it a lot. But it's overpowered. Staff Weaver in comparison only has dps. Hard to achieve, heavily punished for getting any kind of group utility, and lower than the Firebrand's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriOri.8724 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 > @RSLongK.8961 said: > > @OriOri.8724 said: > > > @DakotaCoty.5721 said: > > > > @setdog.1592 said: > > > > > @FallenSentinel.9065 said: > > > > > I'm pretty terrible with builds so I'll open with that admission. Anyway I haven't played Guardian since release and figured now was a decent time to get back into it. But I find Firebrand to be fairly squishy for heavy armor and I don't really get why everyone is saying it's god-tier DPS. What am I missing? > > > > > > > > i am by no means an expert, but here is what ive been reading. someone did a condi firebrand benchmark dps test, on a training golem, and it was close to 50k dps. > > > > that is very significant. But the tradeoff is exactly what you elude to, its a very squishy firebrand build that does that level of damage. > > > > > > > > Firebrand is squishy if you go that god tier damage route. But it doesnt have to played that way. I am fully enjoying the firebrand spec with Shaman exotic gear, axe/torch, mace/shield. not even using food/util buffs, its not a killer damage spec but im able to play all the pve related content and not constantly be sent back to a waypoint, which for me is great as I get to know my firebrand guardian again and play the game. > > > > > > > > i can make improvements to the build and gear over time. but so far i do really like it. > > > > > > This is false. > > > > > > Firebrand on their own deals like 33k dps - but there is an overtune with their ability which causes massive party-wide burst damage (I can't recall the name). > > > > 33k personal DPS on top of group support is stupidly broken > Consider this: > > Its not that absurd since its been the norm for a while in gw2. ofc they eventually nerf down. Just because it became sorta normal after HoT introduced massive powercreep does not make it any less of absolute shit design. Pulling anything more than 20k dps while still providing party support is too much. Support builds should be just that, support. They shouldn't also be one of the higher personal damage builds in that group. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FallenSentinel.9065 Posted September 28, 2017 Author Share Posted September 28, 2017 "does not make it any less of absolute kitten design" I keep seeing this term thrown around and I have no idea what it means Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purgatori.3645 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 > @FallenSentinel.9065 said: > "does not make it any less of absolute kitten design" > > I keep seeing this term thrown around and I have no idea what it means term ...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InJustice.8327 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 "Pulling anything more than 20k dps while still providing party support is too much. Support builds should be just that, support. They shouldn't also be one of the higher personal damage builds in that group. Period." with you saying that it is true, but the thing about firebrand, it isn't 100% support, I see it more as a gap filler, making up for the 5-10% of boons that don't have 100% uptime. I do agree the damage output is insane and does need to be nerfed, but nothing near only hitting 20k dps. I believe adding a longer cooldown on AoTJ (maybe 25 or 30-second cooldown) would help out a ton, it would decrease the dps output of the firebrand a decent amount but not nerf it to the point of being useless in raids/pve and never being used. I believe the damage output of it should cap around 29-32k because remember the damage output on the test golem isn't what you will achieve in an actual fight. In an actual fight, your dps will be much lower because of dodge mechanics, movement, reviving, downs, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptAurellian.9537 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 > @FallenSentinel.9065 said: > "does not make it any less of absolute kitten design" > > I keep seeing this term thrown around and I have no idea what it means I assume you mean the "kitten". That's the forum's auto-censorship for certain _evil_ words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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