Condi Mirage Feedback [Merged]

[jportell.2197]

> @"breno.5423" said:

> Its ok to have lot of CC, but you can't have lots of CC, and mobility, and damage, and sustain, all at the same time.

>

> And yes, mesmer isnt the only one who deserve nerfs.

 

People keep talking about this mirage sustain. And I'm just not seeing. Mirage has ONE stunbreak in the meta build, jaunt is a joke as it won't even teleport you out of most cleave, it could not teleport at all and it would still be taken for the condi clear.

 

Mirage cannot sustain through damage, its heal is very poor, and jaunt has already been nerfed, then nerfed again.

 

They could remove the daze from sword ambush skill and it would still be taken as well.

[Arioch.4810]

> @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > @"Toron.4856" said:

> > > @"jportell.2197" said:

> > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > > > > @"jportell.2197" said:

> > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > > > > > > .

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And yeah, when they run axe and scepter. I like that for example, they change fighting capability for mobility, they have to decide. I would like to see more decisions in general, not only on condi

> > > > >

> > > > > Ok I'll quote you here. I run axe pistol/scepter torch. I personally find the higher output in damage worth it since mirage mainly relies on two condis *confusion* and *torment*

> > > > >

> > > > > Am I still OP on the mobility front? I got to play 2 using this off meta spec. I would love to see all these whiners do any work on mirage running that as it is way more high risk than sword.

> > > > >

> > > > > But I knew these threads were coming after the elusive mind nerfed because all mirage players switched to infinite horizon. So the complaining just keeps coming

> > > >

> > > > I still think your mirage has an extremely low risk in investment, yes. :tongue: But I am mostly comparing to... well, not holo and spellbreaker and stuff.^^ Ele for example has to invest quite a lot. Save teleport for disengage or to avoid some burst? Save one ToF on a 50s CD for emergency or to stay on point? Oops, I did it again, talking about ele in the PVP forum! Sorry for that.

> > > >

> > > > Out of curiosity, do you still use portal or do you focus on dueling on side nodes?

> > > >

> > > > EM was abandoned in higher tiers quite some time ago for the extra condi damage.

> > >

> > > I use portal based on maps. So what would make mirage high risk say compared to a weaver which btw will just stall out a 1v1 against a mirage on a node. If I see ele on a node they own I don't even bother. For some reason though when I fight Koto he doesn't seem to have a hard time.

> > >

> > > So what do u need to see gutted on this class to make YOU happy.

> >

> > Buff mirages dmg and w/e u want to be buffed

> > Remove dodging while stunned

> > Remove attacking while dodging

> >

>

> This, kind of. I wrote a suggestion a bit above:

> Mirage cloak does not work when stunned baseline anymore. EM allows this, get rid of the exhaustion and leave IH as it is. So mirage players have to decide between offense and defense. I think MC to cover casts is fine, but I would like to wait first how this would work out. Any thoughts on this? Would it be too much or to few?

 

Interesting idea.

 

My take: Mirage spec has 3 mirage cloaks baseline and can't benefit from vigor/sigils of energy (only "natural" dodge recharge) Cloak can't be activated while stunned: EM allows this and removes some condis. Sigil loses stealth on active, replaced with something. Torch 4 no longer stealths but detargets similat to axe. Portal can (and should) be spilt for PvP mode with longer cooldown and/or shorter range.

 

Still unique gameplay, and still viable.

[jportell.2197]

> @"Arioch.4810" said:

> > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > > @"Toron.4856" said:

> > > > @"jportell.2197" said:

> > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > > > > > @"jportell.2197" said:

> > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > > > > > > > .

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And yeah, when they run axe and scepter. I like that for example, they change fighting capability for mobility, they have to decide. I would like to see more decisions in general, not only on condi

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ok I'll quote you here. I run axe pistol/scepter torch. I personally find the higher output in damage worth it since mirage mainly relies on two condis *confusion* and *torment*

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Am I still OP on the mobility front? I got to play 2 using this off meta spec. I would love to see all these whiners do any work on mirage running that as it is way more high risk than sword.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But I knew these threads were coming after the elusive mind nerfed because all mirage players switched to infinite horizon. So the complaining just keeps coming

> > > > >

> > > > > I still think your mirage has an extremely low risk in investment, yes. :tongue: But I am mostly comparing to... well, not holo and spellbreaker and stuff.^^ Ele for example has to invest quite a lot. Save teleport for disengage or to avoid some burst? Save one ToF on a 50s CD for emergency or to stay on point? Oops, I did it again, talking about ele in the PVP forum! Sorry for that.

> > > > >

> > > > > Out of curiosity, do you still use portal or do you focus on dueling on side nodes?

> > > > >

> > > > > EM was abandoned in higher tiers quite some time ago for the extra condi damage.

> > > >

> > > > I use portal based on maps. So what would make mirage high risk say compared to a weaver which btw will just stall out a 1v1 against a mirage on a node. If I see ele on a node they own I don't even bother. For some reason though when I fight Koto he doesn't seem to have a hard time.

> > > >

> > > > So what do u need to see gutted on this class to make YOU happy.

> > >

> > > Buff mirages dmg and w/e u want to be buffed

> > > Remove dodging while stunned

> > > Remove attacking while dodging

> > >

> >

> > This, kind of. I wrote a suggestion a bit above:

> > Mirage cloak does not work when stunned baseline anymore. EM allows this, get rid of the exhaustion and leave IH as it is. So mirage players have to decide between offense and defense. I think MC to cover casts is fine, but I would like to wait first how this would work out. Any thoughts on this? Would it be too much or to few?

>

> Interesting idea.

>

> My take: Mirage spec has 3 mirage cloaks baseline and can't benefit from vigor/sigils of energy (only "natural" dodge recharge) Cloak can't be activated while stunned: EM allows this and removes some condis. Sigil loses stealth on active, replaced with something. Torch 4 no longer stealths but detargets similat to axe. Portal can (and should) be spilt for PvP mode with longer cooldown and/or shorter range.

>

> Still unique gameplay, and still viable.

 

So what about skills that grant mirage cloak. That slot or the deception skills

[Arioch.4810]

> > Interesting idea.

> >

> > My take: Mirage spec has 3 mirage cloaks baseline and can't benefit from vigor/sigils of energy (only "natural" dodge recharge) Cloak can't be activated while stunned: EM allows this and removes some condis. Sigil loses stealth on active, replaced with something. Torch 4 no longer stealths but detargets similat to axe. Portal can (and should) be spilt for PvP mode with longer cooldown and/or shorter range.

> >

> > Still unique gameplay, and still viable.

>

> So what about skills that grant mirage cloak. That slot or the deception skills

 

If devs decide to take spec in direction i roughly outlined, skills that grant mirage cloak can be looked at and rebalanced where necessary. ( People with a lot of hours on Mesmer should provide feedback there - my idea of course coincides with my wishes, but it's necessary to see what majority of players feels like, and also - to see is there some problem with outcome/direction of changes)

Giving Mirage 3 "dodges" baseline provides at least one ambush and some evasion for counterburst. But if you go there, there has to be opportunity for opponents to drain the dodges in prolonged fight - hence my idea to limit vigor/sigil replenishment. New players would have a lot of value in EM+3 dodges, shielding them from opening bursts, but you shave off stealth to make sure good players can still catch and punish mesmer for tanking damage but not downing opponent - less chance for resets.

This is only theorycrafting: If it sounds like a good base for tweaks, it's necessary to test that approach is not replacing one problem with another, and that profesion is still viable in all levels of play.

 

[breno.5423]

> @"jportell.2197" said:

> > @"breno.5423" said:

> > Its ok to have lot of CC, but you can't have lots of CC, and mobility, and damage, and sustain, all at the same time.

> >

> > And yes, mesmer isnt the only one who deserve nerfs.

>

> People keep talking about this mirage sustain. And I'm just not seeing. Mirage has ONE stunbreak in the meta build, jaunt is a joke as it won't even teleport you out of most cleave, it could not teleport at all and it would still be taken for the condi clear.

>

> Mirage cannot sustain through damage, its heal is very poor, and jaunt has already been nerfed, then nerfed again.

>

> They could remove the daze from sword ambush skill and it would still be taken as well.

 

Mesmer sustain:

 

Mechanics = **>blur<, >distortion<, mirror**, target break (mirage), clones and ilusions through the way serving as **obstacles**, **>stealths<**, **>portal<**, **>teleports<** (staff 2, sword 3, jaunt - mirage, illusionary ambush - mirage, blink)

Crowd Controls = **>Dazes<**, stuns (sword ambush = mirage, mantra of distracting = zerker, shield skill 5 = chrono), etc (gravity wall, GS skill 5...)

Crowd Control Conditions = **>Blinds<**, weakness, cripple, imobilize, chill (staff), slow (chrono), etc

Boons = Protection, aegis (staff/F4), vigor,

Escape = portal, blink, stealths

[jportell.2197]

> @"breno.5423" said:

> > @"jportell.2197" said:

> > > @"breno.5423" said:

> > > Its ok to have lot of CC, but you can't have lots of CC, and mobility, and damage, and sustain, all at the same time.

> > >

> > > And yes, mesmer isnt the only one who deserve nerfs.

> >

> > People keep talking about this mirage sustain. And I'm just not seeing. Mirage has ONE stunbreak in the meta build, jaunt is a joke as it won't even teleport you out of most cleave, it could not teleport at all and it would still be taken for the condi clear.

> >

> > Mirage cannot sustain through damage, its heal is very poor, and jaunt has already been nerfed, then nerfed again.

> >

> > They could remove the daze from sword ambush skill and it would still be taken as well.

>

> Mesmer sustain:

>

> Mechanics = **>blur<, >distortion<, mirror**, target break (mirage), clones and ilusions through the way serving as **obstacles**, **>stealths<**, **>portal<**, **>teleports<** (staff 2, sword 3, jaunt - mirage, illusionary ambush - mirage, blink)

> Crowd Controls = **>Dazes<**, stuns (sword ambush = mirage, mantra of distracting = zerker, shield skill 5 = chrono), etc (gravity wall, GS skill 5...)

> Crowd Control Conditions = **>Blinds<**, weakness, cripple, imobilize, chill (staff), slow (chrono), etc

> Boons = Protection, aegis (staff/F4), vigor,

> Escape = portal, blink, stealths

 

Please show me a build that has all of that.

[breno.5423]

> @"jportell.2197" said:

> > @"breno.5423" said:

> > > @"jportell.2197" said:

> > > > @"breno.5423" said:

> > > > Its ok to have lot of CC, but you can't have lots of CC, and mobility, and damage, and sustain, all at the same time.

> > > >

> > > > And yes, mesmer isnt the only one who deserve nerfs.

> > >

> > > People keep talking about this mirage sustain. And I'm just not seeing. Mirage has ONE stunbreak in the meta build, jaunt is a joke as it won't even teleport you out of most cleave, it could not teleport at all and it would still be taken for the condi clear.

> > >

> > > Mirage cannot sustain through damage, its heal is very poor, and jaunt has already been nerfed, then nerfed again.

> > >

> > > They could remove the daze from sword ambush skill and it would still be taken as well.

> >

> > Mesmer sustain:

> >

> > Mechanics = **>blur<, >distortion<, mirror**, target break (mirage), clones and ilusions through the way serving as **obstacles**, **>stealths<**, **>portal<**, **>teleports<** (staff 2, sword 3, jaunt - mirage, illusionary ambush - mirage, blink)

> > Crowd Controls = **>Dazes<**, stuns (sword ambush = mirage, mantra of distracting = zerker, shield skill 5 = chrono), etc (gravity wall, GS skill 5...)

> > Crowd Control Conditions = **>Blinds<**, weakness, cripple, imobilize, chill (staff), slow (chrono), etc

> > Boons = Protection, aegis (staff/F4), vigor,

> > Escape = portal, blink, stealths

>

> Please show me a build that has all of that.

 

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Carrion_Ineptitude

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Funny thing is a lot of people complain about the damage when the reality is Mirage damage is pretty average in comparison to other builds. The problem is just way too much utility and defenses packed into their offense. After playing a lot of mirage myself and seeing what makes it busted I'd list the problems in this order of importance:

 

1. Way too much uptime on defenses that can be used at the same time as using any other skill and dodging while CCed. Elusive mind was only half the problem. **Mirage would likely be balanced if just this alone was seriously addressed.** Mirage cloak is inherently busted. This is the biggest issue with the spec by far, and is why playing it makes you feel like an unstoppable god while playing against it makes the matchup always feel unfair. The fact that you can unload your entire skillbar on someone before your invulns/evades run out is just plain 100% bad for the game.

 

2. Phantasm rework removed a lot of player-skill from the class. Mesmer in general is no longer punished for mindlessly spamming phantasms. Even 1700+ rated Mesmers will for instance use Pistol 4 on me while I am blocking the attack, because the skills bring so much value that it doesn't matter. The benefit you get from overloading opponents with clutter often outweighs the benefit of using abilities more tactfully.

 

 

3. A lot of Mesmer skills in general are just overloaded. Take Sword1 Ambush - Mobility + Defense + Engage + Disruption + Damage + Clone spawn ....all on the same skill? And it's considered part of the auto attack on Mirage they get during mirage cloak? There are weapons in the game on other professions with entire skillbars that bring less to the table.

 

 

[Arlette.9684]

> @"viquing.8254" said:

> >Who on Earth still uses Tab targeting?

> It target almost always the mesmer under his clones.

 

Still not an excuse for lazy play, sorry for any1 that does it.

 

Edit: I'm glad some of the fresh blood is taking up the torch from the tired of arguing vets, it's refreshing.

[Skye.9862]

I dont play mirage but I PvP ranked and unranked most of the time that I'm playing GW2 and I play on a variety of classes and I really don't think its that hard to focus and kill a mesmer, some are better than others 110% it depends on skill and mirage certainly isnt as easy to play as scourge used to be. Not to mention they are relatively squishy and you see a mirage coming you really just have to know when to evade like most other classes coming towards you. It used to be hard to kill mesmers when I was new to the game but since I've learned how to play they are really not that difficult. I think they are fine the way they are. Sure they can be annoying and sneak up on you but so can thief and they dont even have half the stealth a thief does. You just have to be aware of your surroundings in the game. I I dont think mirage needs another nerf, and if it gets one... BUFF CHRONOMANCER!!! That used to be such a fun spec.

[JasonLucas.4981]

I think the problem is because clones are able to do too much damage with condition. Clones get no benefit from the mesmer power, but they do from the mesmer condition damage and expertise, but their purpose should be to act like a decoy and distract the enemy and not like a damage source. For exemple, in a power build using a Sword three clones will do less than 50 damge per second while in a condi build using a Staff three clones are able to keep 1k~ damage per second.

[jportell.2197]

> @"JasonLucas.4981" said:

> I think the problem is because clones are able to do too much damage with condition. Clones get no benefit from the mesmer power, but they do from the mesmer condition damage and expertise, but their purpose should be to act like a decoy and distract the enemy and not like a damage source. For exemple, in a power build using a Sword three clones will do less than 50 damge per second while in a condi build using a Staff three clones are able to keep 1k~ damage per second.

 

That's because condi output from the mesmer alone is less than all other condi builds in the game even thief

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"jportell.2197" said:

> > @"JasonLucas.4981" said:

> > I think the problem is because clones are able to do too much damage with condition. Clones get no benefit from the mesmer power, but they do from the mesmer condition damage and expertise, but their purpose should be to act like a decoy and distract the enemy and not like a damage source. For exemple, in a power build using a Sword three clones will do less than 50 damge per second while in a condi build using a Staff three clones are able to keep 1k~ damage per second.

>

> That's because condi output from the mesmer alone is less than all other condi builds in the game even thief

 


 

[https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Condi_DPS_Chaos](https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Condi_DPS_Chaos "https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Condi_DPS_Chaos")

[https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Condi_DPS_Illusions](https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Condi_DPS_Illusions "https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Condi_DPS_Illusions")

[https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Carrion_Ineptitude](https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Carrion_Ineptitude "https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Carrion_Ineptitude")

[jportell.2197]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"jportell.2197" said:

> > > @"JasonLucas.4981" said:

> > > I think the problem is because clones are able to do too much damage with condition. Clones get no benefit from the mesmer power, but they do from the mesmer condition damage and expertise, but their purpose should be to act like a decoy and distract the enemy and not like a damage source. For exemple, in a power build using a Sword three clones will do less than 50 damge per second while in a condi build using a Staff three clones are able to keep 1k~ damage per second.

> >

> > That's because condi output from the mesmer alone is less than all other condi builds in the game even thief

>

> 

>

> [https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Condi_DPS_Chaos](https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Condi_DPS_Chaos "https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Condi_DPS_Chaos")

> [https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Condi_DPS_Illusions](https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Condi_DPS_Illusions "https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Condi_DPS_Illusions")

> [https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Carrion_Ineptitude](https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Carrion_Ineptitude "https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Carrion_Ineptitude")

 

And all of those rely on illusions for increasing condi damage

[viquing.8254]

> @"breno.5423" said:

> Mesmer sustain:

>

> Mechanics = **>blur<, >distortion<, mirror**, target break (mirage), clones and ilusions through the way serving as **obstacles**, **>stealths<**, **>portal<**, **>teleports<** (staff 2, sword 3, jaunt - mirage, illusionary ambush - mirage, blink)

> Crowd Controls = **>Dazes<**, stuns (sword ambush = mirage, mantra of distracting = zerker, shield skill 5 = chrono), etc (gravity wall, GS skill 5...)

> Crowd Control Conditions = **>Blinds<**, weakness, cripple, imobilize, chill (staff), slow (chrono), etc

> Boons = Protection, aegis (staff/F4), vigor,

> Escape = portal, blink, stealths

 

Half aren't efficient.

 

In your linked build, we have :

1 target break+evade.

3 sec stealth + 2 sec stealth.

blink, jaunt.

portal.

2 breakstunt.

2 staff.

Blind.

50 CD distorsion.

 

Boons and other CC conditions have minimal impact.

PS: your build lack condi clear. In practise, top 50 mes drop SoM to MoR. And lol at desesperate decoy.

 

Other class meta builds have better stab uptime, protection, resistance, heal/sec regen, weapon sustain which are more usefull to fight on point.

 

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said :

>ake Sword1 Ambush - Mobility + Defense + Engage + Disruption + Damage + Clone spawn ....all on the same skill?

Welcome to the 3 in 1 power creep hype, every class have the same in different ways.

It's more (Mobility OR Engage) + Disruption + Damage + Clone spawn. What did you mean by defense ? it's not like some other gap closer who do 3-5k damage when giving evade.

Btw I agree with the rest of your post.

 

 

 

[Megametzler.5729]

> @"viquing.8254" said:

> (...)

> In your linked build, we have :

> ~~1 target break+evade.~~

> ~~3 sec stealth~~ + 2 sec stealth.

> blink, jaunt.

> portal.

> (2 breakstunt.)

> 2 staff.

> Blind.

> 50 CD distorsion.

> (...)

 

All these skills can be used to avoid burst after getting stunned. :smile: Not to mention the two additional normal evades. Signet + blink + 3 jaunts + (portal) + staff 2 + (shatters for blind) + distortion + 2 evades. Even if we put brackets around portal because of the delay and the blinds on shatters, that's 9 (!) ways to avoid burst after a stun! Okay, usually no stability, but that's still incredibly high.

 

No other class comes close to this. It is not necessarily the damage, not the clone spam that annoys people. It is the fact that they are so hard to punish for mistakes. This is the number I'd like to see reduced, if they go for all damage.

 

I agree about stuff like sword ambush being just powercreep. Sad but... same goes for FC or daggerstorm. :lol:

[viquing.8254]

> @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> All these skills can be used to avoid burst after getting stunned. :smile:

Sure but other class have other way to avoid getting stunned or go out of burst.

There is a reason that lockdown mesmer was never in meta and it's not mainly due to mirage existence.

 

 

[Megametzler.5729]

> @"viquing.8254" said:

> > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > All these skills can be used to avoid burst after getting stunned. :smile:

> Sure but other class have other way to avoid getting stunned or go out of burst.

> There is a reason that lockdown mesmer was never in meta and it's not mainly due to mirage existence.

>

>

 

Yeah, that's true. BUT: stability can be played around. You can corrupt it, you can wait after it expired (except boonbeast lol). Yes, evades on mirage are often used offensively, sometimes one or two jaunts... but the others? I just think it is too much.

 

I'd like to see some stability spam reduced as well (firebrand, boonbeast and stuff). Make skills meaningful again!

[tinyreborn.1938]

> @"breno.5423" said:

> > > Mesmer sustain:

> > >

> > > Mechanics = **>blur<, >distortion<, mirror**, target break (mirage), clones and ilusions through the way serving as **obstacles**, **>stealths<**, **>portal<**, **>teleports<** (staff 2, sword 3, jaunt - mirage, illusionary ambush - mirage, blink)

> > > Crowd Controls = **>Dazes<**, stuns (sword ambush = mirage, mantra of distracting = zerker, shield skill 5 = chrono), etc (gravity wall, GS skill 5...)

> > > Crowd Control Conditions = **>Blinds<**, weakness, cripple, imobilize, chill (staff), slow (chrono), etc

> > > Boons = Protection, aegis (staff/F4), vigor,

> > > Escape = portal, blink, stealths

> >

> > Please show me a build that has all of that.

>

> https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Carrion_Ineptitude

You dont even look what you link, dont you?

From CC its have : torch 5 - 1/2s daze IF (24s cd) ,daze from f3 1s (32) ,staff5 RANDOM 1s on 35s cd. CC spam sir ?

'Crowd control conditions ' - epic category that I never heard of(at least you didnt listed any of them : fear,taunt) ,more like movement impairing conditions from chaos armor(30s cd) and 35s cd chaos storm (no immobilize at all btw) . Indeed blind on shatter around mesmer :)

Boons -Close to none of that build.Random from the same 30/35s cd staff ... That damn OP vigor shatters 1.5s or that exclusive nerf for mesmer only on critical hit ? With 4% crit chance very consistent. There is other classes with real permanent vigor ,why no complaints?

Escape... portal that mostly would be used for rotation SOMETIMES used to save your life if you alrdy have portal somewhere ,still if its on enemy node you can TP right into enemy and still die(72s cd for self rescue).

Stealth :Torch stealth more often than not used for stealth burst and signet is emergency breakstun. Passive 50% interrupt actions like heal or stomp and once u get down to 50% u can self reveal easly with random shatter or ambush or auto bounce.

Sustain - What is sustain for you ? Stealth spamming just to stay alive is a sustain ? Then shadow arts thieves ,d/p ,DE thieves are gods of sustian . Teleport is a sustain? Sword thief is another god in that category , if evade is a sustain too then s/d thief is taking the crown . Memes aside best sustain have ranger, guardian,warrior(sword eles?)

Blur is sword 2 skill that lasts 1s (not part of that build even).

Distortion depends on amount of clones 1-4s.

Mirror? is that from heal once per 25s that you need to pick up?

Illusionary ambush that never been part of any meta/build (unless you fight self made builds or running it instead of a portal ,then portal complaints should be gone). Clones that die from 1-2 hits and serve as shatter material suddenly became part of sustain... Portal is part of sustain...

 

You trying to make it look like mesmer equipped all utilities and all traits... and all weapons ...

[shinta.8906]

when my hand hurts from pve deadeye rota i go pvp and play condi mirage. it's just to relax my crazy stressed out muscle tissues.

 

im very glad anet has a class that makes me feel relaxed.

 

thank you

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

From what I get people complain about:

- Dodge while stunned - this could be removed or attached to EM, if you think you're losing due to this you're lying to yourselves.

- Evade spam - other lie, there are professions with more evade uptime than mirage by a long shot plus vigor was nerfed into oblivion.

- Evade and attack at once - again how many skills/traits on game do this?

- Mobility - take out portal and other professions have as much mobility.

- Condi burst and sustain dmg - the only fair complain, nerf one of the two for all I care.

[breno.5423]

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> Take Sword1 Ambush - Mobility + Defense + Engage + Disruption + Damage + Clone spawn ....all on the same skill? And it's considered part of the auto attack on Mirage they get during mirage cloak? There are weapons in the game on other professions with entire skillbars that bring less to the table.

>

 

Haha, true.

[Troll.7854]

> @"Ovark.2514" said:

> There is absolutely no way to fight against it without taking an obscene amount of condition removal. You have confusion on you? Doesn't matter if you don't attack to avoid damage, they will kill you anyway. Got Torment on you? Doesn't matter if you don't move to avoid damage, it will kill you anyway. What's the point in even HAVING conditions if there is no way to play around them except for removal?

>

> And you wanna know the worst thing about it?

> you can't even run away. That's the worst thing.

 

 

> @"Zawn.9647" said:

> I agree... The problem is that even if you dont walk and dont cast skills to avoid Confusion/Torment damage (which is ridiculous btw... who thought it would be nice to do nothing just to try countering a mesmer?) - they still do tons of Burning damage and have a pretty decent power damage as well :)

>

> let's nor forget god mode disengage/defense/utility on top of that :D

 

Are you kidding? If u don't use skills vs confusion, you're negating 80% of mirage dmg, and then save your condi clear OR resistance for other conditions, keep in mind that torment lasts at most 8 seconds with full expertise and burn is easily cleared as long as you understand game mechanics, is it that hard of a concept for you to understand?

 

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"jportell.2197" said:

> > > @"JasonLucas.4981" said:

> > > I think the problem is because clones are able to do too much damage with condition. Clones get no benefit from the mesmer power, but they do from the mesmer condition damage and expertise, but their purpose should be to act like a decoy and distract the enemy and not like a damage source. For exemple, in a power build using a Sword three clones will do less than 50 damge per second while in a condi build using a Staff three clones are able to keep 1k~ damage per second.

> >

> > That's because condi output from the mesmer alone is less than all other condi builds in the game even thief

>

> 

>

> [https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Condi_DPS_Chaos](https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Condi_DPS_Chaos "https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Condi_DPS_Chaos")

> [https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Condi_DPS_Illusions](https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Condi_DPS_Illusions "https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Condi_DPS_Illusions")

> [https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Carrion_Ineptitude](https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Carrion_Ineptitude "https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Carrion_Ineptitude")

 

Going to quote a previous post of mine earlier in the thread but it's true. Mathematically Mirage and Scourge have the lowest condition damage output in the game.

 

> Condition damage has completely fallen behind Power Damage in the scheme of things. Condition Berserker, Condition Firebrand, Condition Weaver, and Condition Holosmith have higher condition bursts. Far, far beyond what Condition Mirage and Scourge are capable of. But while those builds have other weaknesses, the single biggest weakness that prevents them from ever becoming meta is the fact that when every class can effortlessly throw off 3+ conditions multiple times a fight, the bulk of their damage being tied down into one or two conditions means their effective damage output in is zero.

>

> Condition cleanses and conversion into boons are both extremely overtuned at this point. Most classes can quickly throw off 3-7+ conditions repeatedly over the course of a fight, or have strong resistance uptime. Scourge and Mirage are the only condition classes capable of keeping up not because their condition damage is high (It's not. Scourge and Mirage are actually the lowest condition damage available) but because they have a wide _range_ of conditions (Or in Scourge's case a wide range of conditions and boon corruption) that gives their conditions a chance to dodge condition cleanses entirely. And even then there is no shortage of Power Mirage and absolutely no shortage Power Reaper who have pulled ahead of Scourge.

 

Condition cleanses and conversions are overtuned at this point. Every class can shrug off 3-7 conditions several times a fight or is overloaded with resistance. Mirage and Scourge are only able to keep up because their bloated spread of conditions allow their more important damage applicators to dodge cleanses despite them being the lowest condition damage classes in the game, and because they have reliable answers to resistance. Both condition cleanses need to be dialed way back, and the variety of conditions any one class can apply should be reigned back to 2-3 conditions for damage with higher values and duration to compensate.

[FyzE.3472]

Ah, another "we care about your feedback" topic. I saw one in the elementalist forum. 0 comments from devs. With the exception of "we are merging all topics into one" one