Condi Mirage Feedback [Merged]

[Simonoly.4352]

Mesmer in general is a tough fight for new players so it's normal that you're struggling currently. As said above, making a Mesmer (and then Mirage) to get an understanding of what is occurring is your best option initially. Sadly, base Ranger just doesn't cut it against most of the Elite specs. Against Mirage, you really do need to be on Druid or Soulbeast to properly counter it.

[Toron.4856]

> @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > > The problem players are having with the Mirage is that when they try to roll their face on the keyboard and just spam their offensives it doesnt work out as well is does for them in a regular mid-fight.

> > > The Mirage is a duelist and is extremely fragile when caught with his pants down without an evade....you suggest to take away his dueling capability and leave him with what....exactly?

> >

> > The problem players are having playing mirage is that when they try to roll their face on the keyboard and just spam their offensives it works out and they do tons of damage.

> > The mirage is a duelist and is not fragile at all when caught without evades - they have plenty of other disengaging tools like teleports, on demand stealth, portal and more. If they kitten up, hardly any class can stop them from disengaging. Core guard for example only has 2 gap closers, Sword 2 usually being used in fight for blind and symbol. That is what makes it high reward, low risk. I think mesmer should have to choose between high sustain and high damage in their traitlines - the split I mentioned above would be my spontaneous idea. Doesn't address the various teleports, but I might be okay with those if they tune other things.

> >

> > And while I usually only play power mesmer from time to time (until the CS nerf lol), I did try condi mirage a bit in Plat. Without any training, any muscle memory - and I did way too good. The same only worked with scourge a couple of months ago - well, I admit, that was even easier. :lol:

> >

> > Because I might be developing some kind of fetish here: Yes, they should tune down holo, spellbreaker and stuff as well. Don't worry, I am not only complaining about mirage. :smile: These classes limit build diversity extremely. When did we have a condi build being strong that was not scourge or mirage...?

>

> To my mind the meaning of fragile is something that takes a lot of damage when you hit it...which is exactly the case with mirage.

> By your meaning thieves are not fragile because they have lots of evade and disengage potential.

>

 

The keyword is "when you hit it"

 

Dodge while stunned

Jaunt

Blink

Portal

Evade

Stealth

Sword 2

Distortion

Sword Ambush

Breaking target

Etc.

 

:-)

[sephiroth.4217]

Make one and play it, get used to the playstyle and skills and take note on what killed you and how... Best way to learn to counter any class and it will make you a better player overall in the long run.

 

 

[Amaranthe.3578]

> @"Toron.4856" said:

> > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > > > The problem players are having with the Mirage is that when they try to roll their face on the keyboard and just spam their offensives it doesnt work out as well is does for them in a regular mid-fight.

> > > > The Mirage is a duelist and is extremely fragile when caught with his pants down without an evade....you suggest to take away his dueling capability and leave him with what....exactly?

> > >

> > > The problem players are having playing mirage is that when they try to roll their face on the keyboard and just spam their offensives it works out and they do tons of damage.

> > > The mirage is a duelist and is not fragile at all when caught without evades - they have plenty of other disengaging tools like teleports, on demand stealth, portal and more. If they kitten up, hardly any class can stop them from disengaging. Core guard for example only has 2 gap closers, Sword 2 usually being used in fight for blind and symbol. That is what makes it high reward, low risk. I think mesmer should have to choose between high sustain and high damage in their traitlines - the split I mentioned above would be my spontaneous idea. Doesn't address the various teleports, but I might be okay with those if they tune other things.

> > >

> > > And while I usually only play power mesmer from time to time (until the CS nerf lol), I did try condi mirage a bit in Plat. Without any training, any muscle memory - and I did way too good. The same only worked with scourge a couple of months ago - well, I admit, that was even easier. :lol:

> > >

> > > Because I might be developing some kind of fetish here: Yes, they should tune down holo, spellbreaker and stuff as well. Don't worry, I am not only complaining about mirage. :smile: These classes limit build diversity extremely. When did we have a condi build being strong that was not scourge or mirage...?

> >

> > To my mind the meaning of fragile is something that takes a lot of damage when you hit it...which is exactly the case with mirage.

> > By your meaning thieves are not fragile because they have lots of evade and disengage potential.

> >

>

> The keyword is "when you hit it"

>

> Dodge while stunned

> Jaunt

> Blink

> Portal

> Evade

> Stealth

> Sword 2

> Distortion

> Sword Ambush

> Breaking target

> Etc.

>

> :-)

 

I think if you list all the evade thief has it will be even more impressive?

Whats your point though? Mirage needs these evades to survive

[Megametzler.5729]

> @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > > The problem players are having with the Mirage is that when they try to roll their face on the keyboard and just spam their offensives it doesnt work out as well is does for them in a regular mid-fight.

> > > The Mirage is a duelist and is extremely fragile when caught with his pants down without an evade....you suggest to take away his dueling capability and leave him with what....exactly?

> >

> > The problem players are having playing mirage is that when they try to roll their face on the keyboard and just spam their offensives it works out and they do tons of damage.

> > The mirage is a duelist and is not fragile at all when caught without evades - they have plenty of other disengaging tools like teleports, on demand stealth, portal and more. If they kitten up, hardly any class can stop them from disengaging. Core guard for example only has 2 gap closers, Sword 2 usually being used in fight for blind and symbol. That is what makes it high reward, low risk. I think mesmer should have to choose between high sustain and high damage in their traitlines - the split I mentioned above would be my spontaneous idea. Doesn't address the various teleports, but I might be okay with those if they tune other things.

> >

> > And while I usually only play power mesmer from time to time (until the CS nerf lol), I did try condi mirage a bit in Plat. Without any training, any muscle memory - and I did way too good. The same only worked with scourge a couple of months ago - well, I admit, that was even easier. :lol:

> >

> > Because I might be developing some kind of fetish here: Yes, they should tune down holo, spellbreaker and stuff as well. Don't worry, I am not only complaining about mirage. :smile: These classes limit build diversity extremely. When did we have a condi build being strong that was not scourge or mirage...?

>

> To my mind the meaning of fragile is something that takes a lot of damage when you hit it...which is exactly the case with mirage.

> By your meaning thieves are not fragile because they have lots of evade and disengage potential.

>

 

They are more fragile because they have way less other means of evading damage, yes. :smile: Shadowstep, maybe steal somehow. Fragility is not defined by how many HPs someone has - otherwise even bunker weaver would be fragile. But that might be a different understanding between the two of us. Condi mirage does have a lot of disengage potential and active defenses apart from dodging, I guess we can agree on that. :smile:

 

I would just like to reduce either the escapability **or** the damage. Right now these classes are just too dominant.^^

[jportell.2197]

> @"Toron.4856" said:

> > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > > > The problem players are having with the Mirage is that when they try to roll their face on the keyboard and just spam their offensives it doesnt work out as well is does for them in a regular mid-fight.

> > > > The Mirage is a duelist and is extremely fragile when caught with his pants down without an evade....you suggest to take away his dueling capability and leave him with what....exactly?

> > >

> > > The problem players are having playing mirage is that when they try to roll their face on the keyboard and just spam their offensives it works out and they do tons of damage.

> > > The mirage is a duelist and is not fragile at all when caught without evades - they have plenty of other disengaging tools like teleports, on demand stealth, portal and more. If they kitten up, hardly any class can stop them from disengaging. Core guard for example only has 2 gap closers, Sword 2 usually being used in fight for blind and symbol. That is what makes it high reward, low risk. I think mesmer should have to choose between high sustain and high damage in their traitlines - the split I mentioned above would be my spontaneous idea. Doesn't address the various teleports, but I might be okay with those if they tune other things.

> > >

> > > And while I usually only play power mesmer from time to time (until the CS nerf lol), I did try condi mirage a bit in Plat. Without any training, any muscle memory - and I did way too good. The same only worked with scourge a couple of months ago - well, I admit, that was even easier. :lol:

> > >

> > > Because I might be developing some kind of fetish here: Yes, they should tune down holo, spellbreaker and stuff as well. Don't worry, I am not only complaining about mirage. :smile: These classes limit build diversity extremely. When did we have a condi build being strong that was not scourge or mirage...?

> >

> > To my mind the meaning of fragile is something that takes a lot of damage when you hit it...which is exactly the case with mirage.

> > By your meaning thieves are not fragile because they have lots of evade and disengage potential.

> >

>

> The keyword is "when you hit it"

>

> Dodge while stunned

> Jaunt

> Blink

> Portal

> Evade

> Stealth

> Sword 2

> Distortion

> Sword Ambush

> Breaking target

> Etc.

>

> :-)

 

Sword ambush can't be used while stunned even if the mirage does dodge.

Most people don't use blink they use sig of midnight. And if they use blink they aren't using signet of midnight.

Stealth is 3s on a 30s CD. Ranger and engineer have better access. (Aside from the aforementioned signet of midnight)

 

Portal is a LOOOOPNG CD.

 

Jaunt won't even teleport you out of most AOEs the distance is so short.

 

As for sword it has been nerfed with a CD increase, had its evade time reduced. Then had its damage reduced. What more do you want here?

 

Distortion is once again a long cooldown.

Vigor has been nerfed, conditions application have been nerfed.

Condi cleanse has been nerfed.

 

If you want mirage to have less evasion uptime give it the same boon access while maintaining the damage output of holo.

Or give it the 1vX sustain of spellbreaker.

Or the AOE pressure of a reaper.

 

 

Right now mirage is mainly a good 1v1 class, still can't really stand on a point against most meta bruiser builds, still forced into portal, and still weaker to condis than most other classes.

 

The inspiration variant just doesn't have the damage to really be relevant at, and its sustain is still not on par with a SB.

[Dash Rydr.2835]

Mirage is trash atm.Sorry bt i don't have problems with it after they got nerf only low plat , gold , and silver crying here in comments because they dont know how to play there class and crying over other class . At this time a good core guard , as thief , boon soul beast , a good holo , plat 2 + deadeye, a good bunker spell breaker can kill poor condi mirage like a trash player.

[Dash Rydr.2835]

@Dharma.9123 Bro learn to play please or.play some viable build. If u saying mirage is a nightmare then please fight in tournaments. You will see every player a nightmare pvp is not just limited to just press buttons.

[Dash Rydr.2835]

@StabbersTheThird.6053 Please play your mirage against me and press buttons randomly, i will put to dead in under 10 seconds^^ Please dont mind .

[Amaranthe.3578]

> @"jportell.2197" said:

> > @"Toron.4856" said:

> > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > > > > The problem players are having with the Mirage is that when they try to roll their face on the keyboard and just spam their offensives it doesnt work out as well is does for them in a regular mid-fight.

> > > > > The Mirage is a duelist and is extremely fragile when caught with his pants down without an evade....you suggest to take away his dueling capability and leave him with what....exactly?

> > > >

> > > > The problem players are having playing mirage is that when they try to roll their face on the keyboard and just spam their offensives it works out and they do tons of damage.

> > > > The mirage is a duelist and is not fragile at all when caught without evades - they have plenty of other disengaging tools like teleports, on demand stealth, portal and more. If they kitten up, hardly any class can stop them from disengaging. Core guard for example only has 2 gap closers, Sword 2 usually being used in fight for blind and symbol. That is what makes it high reward, low risk. I think mesmer should have to choose between high sustain and high damage in their traitlines - the split I mentioned above would be my spontaneous idea. Doesn't address the various teleports, but I might be okay with those if they tune other things.

> > > >

> > > > And while I usually only play power mesmer from time to time (until the CS nerf lol), I did try condi mirage a bit in Plat. Without any training, any muscle memory - and I did way too good. The same only worked with scourge a couple of months ago - well, I admit, that was even easier. :lol:

> > > >

> > > > Because I might be developing some kind of fetish here: Yes, they should tune down holo, spellbreaker and stuff as well. Don't worry, I am not only complaining about mirage. :smile: These classes limit build diversity extremely. When did we have a condi build being strong that was not scourge or mirage...?

> > >

> > > To my mind the meaning of fragile is something that takes a lot of damage when you hit it...which is exactly the case with mirage.

> > > By your meaning thieves are not fragile because they have lots of evade and disengage potential.

> > >

> >

> > The keyword is "when you hit it"

> >

> > Dodge while stunned

> > Jaunt

> > Blink

> > Portal

> > Evade

> > Stealth

> > Sword 2

> > Distortion

> > Sword Ambush

> > Breaking target

> > Etc.

> >

> > :-)

>

> Sword ambush can't be used while stunned even if the mirage does dodge.

> Most people don't use blink they use sig of midnight. And if they use blink they aren't using signet of midnight.

> Stealth is 3s on a 30s CD. Ranger and engineer have better access. (Aside from the aforementioned signet of midnight)

>

> Portal is a LOOOOPNG CD.

>

> Jaunt won't even teleport you out of most AOEs the distance is so short.

>

> As for sword it has been nerfed with a CD increase, had its evade time reduced. Then had its damage reduced. What more do you want here?

>

> Distortion is once again a long cooldown.

> Vigor has been nerfed, conditions application have been nerfed.

> Condi cleanse has been nerfed.

>

> If you want mirage to have less evasion uptime give it the same boon access while maintaining the damage output of holo.

> Or give it the 1vX sustain of spellbreaker.

> Or the AOE pressure of a reaper.

>

>

> Right now mirage is mainly a good 1v1 class, still can't really stand on a point against most meta bruiser builds, still forced into portal, and still weaker to condis than most other classes.

>

> The inspiration variant just doesn't have the damage to really be relevant at, and its sustain is still not on par with a SB.

 

Im starting to thing all these whiners are the kind of people that attack mesmer clones and rage

[Dash Rydr.2835]

@@Trevor Boyer.6524 hahahaha brother please fight high tier players bt not low tier plats or try to play in tournaments, you will stop playing condi mirage after that lmao It not good as u saying S S+ ...you will die from a noob plat 2 player there too also from boon soul beast , bunker warrior , core guard , sd thief , other condi mirage , conversion holo ..give it a try ^^ You given a big explanation i appritiate but please try it.

[Einlanzer.1627]

The problem is and always has been that the developers seem to keep balancing around an overbuffed baseline for condition damage because they forgot it has the benefit of ignoring armor. I've been calling this out for years. Unbelievable there are still so many issues.

 

Condi needs to be nerfed virtually across the board, and condi removal just needs to basically be removed. The condi removal counterplay meta is stupid.

[Dharma.9123]

> @"Dash Rydr.2835" said:

> @Dharma.9123 Bro learn to play please or.play some viable build. If u saying mirage is a nightmare then please fight in tournaments. You will see every player a nightmare pvp is not just limited to just press buttons.

 

sPvp in this game is not for tournament players. I dont know statistic, but have feeling - average devision in game is between silver/gold.

Answer - become plat 3 and then will dont have any problems with mirage mesmer is not okay man (also use viable build for it please)

 

One build counters another is okay (revenant vs condi mesmer is ike 0.02% for success with same skill). Revenant counter rifle DE thief - is okay.

Become good in game/use viable builds/play way better then opponent and then you (maybe) will win this duel - is not okay.

 

Ow.. sorry. Your team done have portal? Then we will always outplay you with rotations. Nothing personal, just mesmer.

[Dash Rydr.2835]

@Dharma.9123 Boon soul beast , bunker warrior , core guard , sd thief , other condi mirage , conversion holo ..give it a try against condi mirage 1 vs 1 , that poor condi mirage will die helpless^^You will win 90 %. Rev dont counter condi mirage so dont give priority to that thing ,every class has its 1 counter and its not 1 vs 1 class ..try +1 on rev against condi mirage if u smart enough after the nerf condi mirage got not much douches that it can survive every time.

[Amaranthe.3578]

> @"Dharma.9123" said:

> > @"Dash Rydr.2835" said:

> > @Dharma.9123 Bro learn to play please or.play some viable build. If u saying mirage is a nightmare then please fight in tournaments. You will see every player a nightmare pvp is not just limited to just press buttons.

>

> sPvp in this game is not for tournament players. I dont know statistic, but have feeling - average devision in game is between silver/gold.

> Answer - become plat 3 and then will dont have any problems with mirage mesmer is not okay man (also use viable build for it please)

>

> One build counters another is okay (revenant vs condi mesmer is ike 0.02% for success with same skill). Revenant counter rifle DE thief - is okay.

> Become good in game/use viable builds/play way better then opponent and then you (maybe) will win this duel - is not okay.

>

> Ow.. sorry. Your team done have portal? Then we will always outplay you with rotations. Nothing personal, just mesmer.

 

Hold on a second there...did you just say its NOT okay to get better?

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

If you play on thief, one of the ways you beat them is to consistently land your steal. Mirage has a dodge animation that comes accompanied with a status effect that you can see on their status window. The millisecond it ends is usually the best time to land steal which gives you the ecto, and you can pretty much sustain as long as you land the steal.

 

For other classes you may also want to look at their status bar and use your abilities when it ends as well. They have 4 invulns; sword 2, distortion, axe 3 and dodge.

 

Everything except axe 3 has a status effect, so ya, pay attention to those and you should do okay.

[Dharma.9123]

> @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > @"Dharma.9123" said:

> > > @"Dash Rydr.2835" said:

> > > @Dharma.9123 Bro learn to play please or.play some viable build. If u saying mirage is a nightmare then please fight in tournaments. You will see every player a nightmare pvp is not just limited to just press buttons.

> >

> > sPvp in this game is not for tournament players. I dont know statistic, but have feeling - average devision in game is between silver/gold.

> > Answer - become plat 3 and then will dont have any problems with mirage mesmer is not okay man (also use viable build for it please)

> >

> > One build counters another is okay (revenant vs condi mesmer is ike 0.02% for success with same skill). Revenant counter rifle DE thief - is okay.

> > Become good in game/use viable builds/play way better then opponent and then you (maybe) will win this duel - is not okay.

> >

> > Ow.. sorry. Your team done have portal? Then we will always outplay you with rotations. Nothing personal, just mesmer.

>

> Hold on a second there...did you just say its NOT okay to get better?

 

It is not okay if you need to play WAY better then opponent for win, and lose if have same skill level.

[viquing.8254]

>Power mirage is okay. High rish - high reward.

It's funny because it has the same tools as condi mirage considering mirage trait and utilitary.

 

>Condi mesmer in nightmare in sPvP right now.

No.

 

>High burst damage/high pressure damage/highest mobility in game/target break/invis (also while cast spell)/non stop clone generating/good offense and good defensive/you cant run away/counters all single target builds without cleave/ even if you have cleave counters if you dont have A LOT condi cleanse.

The only right assertion is that it has target break.

Why aren't you top 10 with theses op tools ?

Why didn't we see mesmers every leaderboard pages ?

 

>In meta now only ONE counter - core guardian.

And boon soulbeast, and every sustain specs like weavers, drood, and it have fair mu against some other meta spec.

A gardian should **never** lose to a condimirage.

 

>Confusion - you cant cast skills, if only it is not condi cleaning.

Every confusion burst max duration is 3.5 to 4.75 sec, even with no dispell, it's easy on much class to juste kite waiting confusion go away.

Torment have a high duration only on scepter block and 3rd axe auto.

Burning and bleed came from burst, every spec who hit you with a 20-24 cd damage spell will hurt you.

 

>Mirage stomps Ranger in all its forms

Condi mirage lose to drood and boon soulbeast.

Power mirage lose to ranger and boon soulbeast.

 

>Who on Earth still uses Tab targeting?

It target almost always the mesmer under his clones.

 

>I wrote a thread telling a story about my experience playing as the Condi Mirage.

You but it's just a story on which you are farming noobs. it just show that mesmer is good a killing newbies, it's not the only one anyway.

I can do the same on every meta builds, resuming the feedback to "wtf I kill everyone around me, I don't even know why.".

 

>tons of damage

can you tell how much ?

 

>The Mirage is a duelist and is extremely fragile when caught with his pants down without an evade....you suggest to take away his dueling capability and leave him with what....exactly?

This is the major issue in this forum, majority plays teamfight oriented class and are persuaded that they should also win every duel in this game.

Leaving duelling class with nothing.

 

>The mirage is a duelist and is not fragile at all when caught without evades

They can't anticap points versus most of meta builds.

 

>they have plenty of other disengaging tools like teleports

1 1200 good teleport.

jaunt and staff will not make you got out of damage in most case (mainly due to ennemy gap closer, reduced movement on you, projectile ...).

Teleports survival didn't help caping a point.

 

>on demand stealth

One or two stealth with a 24-30 cd for a 4-3 second stealth ... Not to say that you are vulnerable to aoe, revealed, can't cap point.

 

>portal and more

actually portal is the only skill who make the difference, what is more ?

 

>hardly any class can stop them from disengaging.

I prefer to no need disengaging and fight on point than to be forced to run away.

 

 

> The keyword is "when you hit it"

>

> Dodge while stunned

> Jaunt

> Blink

> Portal

> Evade

> Stealth

> Sword 2

> Distortion

> Sword Ambush

> Breaking target

> Etc.

How much are 3 in 1 spell in this list ?

4 of those burn 4 utilitary emplacement.

Real pegi4 profession are thoses who with 1 clic who do hudge damage + heal + cc + evade or other effect.

 

>Condi mirage does have a lot of disengage potential and active defenses apart from dodging, I guess we can agree on that.

Most of them aren't good in capture point mode.

Most of them are necessary to just survive more than 15 sec, have you played with half of the list above to see how not viable it is ?

 

[Aza.2105]

> @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

 

> I think if you list all the evade thief has it will be even more impressive?

> Whats your point though? Mirage needs these evades to survive

 

So does every class. Name me a class that can take direct damage without dying in a millisecond? Answer? No one. At this point in time every class relies on: Evades, blocks, invul to survive(which is a huge part of the problem). Specific classes have all of the latter in addition to stealth and easy disengagement. It just so happens that Mirage has higher uptime of those 100% mitigation skills than anyone, in addition to stealth and easy disengage. Its like I said in a previous post, all of this is just a symptom of a bigger problem with the game. At this stage of the game, it probably doesn't matter. I don't think Anet will ever revert the game back to how it was in the beginning. Which was 100x better than what we have now.

 

 

[geist.4126]

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> I feel toughness needs to affect condition damage as it does with physical damage. I dont see why condis get a free pass to do full damage when ever its applied but phyical damage has many miditgations.

> Therew only one thing to do with condis and its clearing.

 

No, toughness shouldn't affect condition damage. Condition builds are already dead, don't need to beat that dead horse again. It's a mirage and mesmer issue, not an issue of conditions. There is so much cleanse in the game now that you can use, you don't need another option.

[Silence.3702]

In a main memeser mind even a button that says kill everyone wouldn't be op simply because it makes everything easier for them.

 

Why work when you get stuff handed to you with a golden spoon?

[Silence.3702]

You don't. You play better

You can't counter it since a mirage has everything you have and more

[viquing.8254]

golden spoon = nerf duel capacity since release ? (remember sword 3 work when clone die, sword 3 who breakstunt for example.)

= 9 ultitary with no cd reduction, 5 with no traits ?

Mourner = I want to rollafce mesmer even with my heal exotic build.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"geist.4126" said:

> > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > I feel toughness needs to affect condition damage as it does with physical damage. I dont see why condis get a free pass to do full damage when ever its applied but phyical damage has many miditgations.

> > Therew only one thing to do with condis and its clearing.

>

> No, toughness shouldn't affect condition damage. Condition builds are already dead, don't need to beat that dead horse again. It's a mirage and mesmer issue, not an issue of conditions. There is so much cleanse in the game now that you can use, you don't need another option.

 

Condition cleanses and conversion into boons are both extremely overtuned at this point. Most classes can quickly throw off 3-7+ conditions repeatedly over the course of a fight, or have strong resistance uptime. Scourge and Mirage are the only condition classes capable of keeping up not because their condition damage is high (It's not. Scourge and Mirage are actually some of the lowest condition damage available) but because they have a wide _range_ of conditions (Or in Scourge's case a wide range of conditions and boon corruption) that gives their conditions a chance to dodge condition cleanses entirely. And even then there is no shortage of Power Mirage and absolutely no shortage Power Reaper who have pulled ahead of Scourge.

 

Condition damage has completely fallen behind Power Damage in the scheme of things. Condition Berserker, Condition Firebrand, Condition Weaver, and Condition Holosmith have the higher condition bursts. Far, far beyond what Condition Mirage and Scourge are capable of. But even putting aside other weaknesses in those builds, the single biggest weakness that prevents them from ever becoming meta is the fact that when every class can effortlessly throw off 3+ conditions multiple times a fight, the bulk of their damage being tied down into one or two conditions means their effective damage output is zero.

 

Arenanet really needs to look at both normalizing the spread of conditions, balancing all classes around 2-3 damaging conditions. And also heavily pulling back condition cleanses to compensate for it.

 

As to directly answer Eddbopkins point, Condition is allowed to bypass toughness (And generally be tuned to do higher damage than power damage), from a philosophical level, because condition damage last over a longer period of time where as power damage is all loaded up front, and can be completely mitigated through cleanses and resistance in addition to most of the things power is mitigate by such as blinds, blocks, evades, and invulns. The only things that hinders power damage over condition damage are weakness and protection both of which aren't anywhere near as potent as completely nullifying the damage the way cleanses and resistance do.

[Kako.1930]

Wow, it's nice that the threads finally got merged but seeing 5 pages about condi mes makes it seem like it's game breaking or something, and it's not that bad in my opinion. O.o;;

 

It's strong, easy, and gimmicky, but it's not dominating every match or anything...

 

(Then again, half of the posts seem to just be mesmer mains defending their main, lol.)