Why?

[Jack Redline.5379]

Why do you gus want to change Thief to Mesmer? I read so many coments these days and all of them want to make Thief a magician (shadow mage or whatever) what the hell is wrong with all of you? If you want to play Mesmer go play Mesmer. You will be more wanted in all game types. You will have easy rotation that masaccres everything. STOP TRYING TO CHANGE THIEF INTO MESMER PLEASE.

Y'all talking about lets give Thief phantasms = mesmer stuff.

Lets make thief use shadow magic = complete nonsense and you no matter what whoever says wont recognize it is

Lets give thief scepter = magical artifact for MAGES

Lets make thief support = again mesmer stuff. We have freaking two traits that can actually give some small support. Rending shade and Bountiful theft. Both of them weak enough you would use it even if you'd had to. DD has none and DE has maybe one i am not sure i dont play that,

If you want magic. Go play one of the light armor magician classes. Leave us thieves alone.

 

You watch prolly too much anime and you hope you will get to be like one of them characters jumping around shooting pistols with shady shadow crawling behind your back while daggers fly out of your hands and doing kung-fu like freaking Nuck Chorris.

That aint gonna happen. It is not possible. Not in this game. Go play mesmer if you want to play mesmer.

Dress it all in black and red so it is brutal and you got your dreamed out anime, super natural, magical phantasms casting, shots firing, clones blasing, enemies roasting, special unicorn!

I am not salty i am just so tired of reading about all that stuff + it makes no sense. Thank you.

[derd.6413]

just because you say you're not salty doesn't mean you aren't

[Cougre.6543]

Thief already uses shadow magic though, that's deadeye basically.

[Jack Redline.5379]

> @"Cougre.6543" said:

> Thief already uses shadow magic though, that's deadeye basically.

 

as you said that is deadeye i said it as well and thus dont mix thieves with daedeyes thx

[Jack Redline.5379]

> @"derd.6413" said:

> just because you say you're not salty doesn't mean you aren't

 

i am not salty and just because you try to be smart by saying someone is salty for being tired of stuff and so expresses their opinion you are not smart

[Cougre.6543]

> @"Jack Redline.5379" said:

> that is deadeye

Core thief also has magic in the form of signets.

[TorQ.7041]

Cos every one wants to be David Blaine apart from you bro. Just accept!

[Jack Redline.5379]

> @"Cougre.6543" said:

> > @"Jack Redline.5379" said:

> > that is deadeye

> Core thief also has magic in the form of signets.

 

Yes and he also hasagic in form of charming personality. Which you actually can pick when you create character. Also he is magicaly attractvive to Asuras and miraculously never stole a single of ng in msin story

[Jack Redline.5379]

> @"TorQ.7041" said:

> Cos every one wants to be David Blaine apart from you bro. Just accept!

 

Cuz everyone is 12-14 yo weeb. Thief has always been more like Indiana Jones or Jack Sparrow not some Samurai Senpai San from whatever.

[pureskullz.7536]

 

says in the thief's description they use shadow magic deception and trickery to win but oh well the guy doesn't wanna take the fact. That an e-spec is just a class inside a class it's his problem.

[Jack Redline.5379]

> @"pureskullz.7536" said:

>

> says in the thief's description they use shadow magic deception and trickery to win but oh well the guy doesn't wanna take the fact. That an e-spec is just a class inside a class it's his problem.

 

there is diference between shadow arst and shadow magic.

lemme qoute

 

 

 

''Experts at stealth and surprise, thieves can move through the shadows, vanish into thin air, or steal items from their opponents and use them as weapons. Thieves practice an agile, acrobatic fighting style, which can make them very hard to hit.''

 

— GuildWars2.com Thief

 

''**Thieves are expert in the shadow arts. They utilize stealth and shadowstepping to surprise and to get close to their target. ** (that is the purpose of shadow arts. to substitute for lack of enviroment = hiding and surprirse. and to substitute for the fact it would take ages to get to enemy which in these days is faster than you = shadowsteping to surprise)They're deadly in one-on-one combat using their agility, acrobatic fighting style, and the ability to steal to overcome their enemies. They have an affinity for setting traps and using venom. As an adventurer profession, thieves wear medium armor. ''

 

also lemme emphasize the word Adventurer.

 

I have pointed this fact out to so many people i alreaedy made a word document and i just copy it from there so i dont have to open gW2wiki every time. Deal with it. Shadow arts is not shadow magic.

Only Deadeye has word shadow magic in its description and as i said as well. deadeye is not a thief. it is deadeye.

 

[Tails.9372]

>steal items from their opponents and use them as weapons

I wanna see an e-spec that "steals" the enemy's weapon sets, makes them unable to use them for the duration of the time and then lets you beat him up with his own weapons. The salt would be real.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

Shadow Arts is an art of using Shadow Magic.

 

Defensive shadow magic are stealth and shadowstep.

Offensive shadow magic are Shadow Gust and Shadow Flare.

Utility shadow magic are Boon Steal and Leech.

 

Sure you can stealth without magic (a.k.a. camouflage or hiding in shadows), but you cannot shadowstep without magic, you cannot boon steal without magic, and you cannot leech through your venoms without magic.

 

Engineers use physical tools to heal (e.g. potion) but Thief uses magic to heal (e.g. Shadow Rejuvenation).

 

Because of the Thief's ability to use Shadow Magic that it is completely logical to specialize in it by being a Shadow Mage or an Arcane Thief.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

> @"Jack Redline.5379" said:

> deadeye is not a thief. it is deadeye.

>

 

"**The Deadeye is a thief** who stalks their targets with patience and brutal accuracy. ..."

— Official site"

[DeceiverX.8361]

Probably because most of the people who wanted to play assassins, tricksters, acrobatics, and skirmishers all quit the game.

That, and for whatever reason the necromancer runs green and bright yellow particle effects on most of its death-themed skills, and it's not enough for many of the edgelords who just wanna cover themselves in DARKNESS

 

Most of the people who preferred the simplistic grit of core no longer like the game's super-over-the-top-Asian-RPG-wannabe aesthetic we've got going on.

 

Let's be real here, most of what's left is glorified RP'ers who don't understand the fundamentals of the core class/game as it is.

 

I mean, think about it. DE is a mechanically HORRIBLE elite spec because it's impossible to balance around core.

But stealth-sniper was the most-asked-for elite spec concept for PoF.

 

So who's left that care enough to make requests? People who want shadow mages.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

> @"Jack Redline.5379" said:

> > @"TorQ.7041" said:

> > Cos every one wants to be David Blaine apart from you bro. Just accept!

>

> Cuz everyone is 12-14 yo weeb. Thief has always been more like Indiana Jones or Jack Sparrow not some Samurai Senpai San from whatever.

 

Honestly I always saw thief as more of an Errol Flynn thing. It's why I always enjoyed sword builds, and have to use push to talk on TS so friends don't question why I'm screaming "Ha-HAAAAAAA" at the top of my lungs when I kill something.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

Those who wants to play "assassins, tricksters, acrobatics, and skirmishers" got what they wanted in Daredevil and Deadeye. So it's ironic that they quit.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> Probably because most of the people who wanted to play assassins, tricksters, acrobatics, and skirmishers all quit the game.

> That, and for whatever reason the necromancer runs green and bright yellow particle effects on most of its death-themed skills, and it's not enough for many of the edgelords who just wanna cover themselves in DARKNESS

>

> Most of the people who preferred the simplistic grit of core no longer like the game's super-over-the-top-Asian-RPG-wannabe aesthetic we've got going on.

>

> Let's be real here, most of what's left is glorified RP'ers who don't understand the fundamentals of the core class/game as it is.

>

> I mean, think about it. DE is a mechanically HORRIBLE elite spec because it's impossible to balance around core.

> But stealth-sniper was the most-asked-for elite spec concept for PoF.

>

> So who's left that care enough to make requests? People who want shadow mages.

 

Honestly, deadeye feels pretty balanced if you don't take dagger mainhand or SA, since you don't get the obnoxiously high damage with zero tell from 1 malice backstabs and taking acro provides cleanse at the cost of something else (shadow's embrace is generally speaking the only useful adept SA trait in a fight, while taking pain response means no instant reflexes, there's actual tradeoffs). The issue is more with the combination of stealth stacking with combo fields and SA, I think.

 

In isolation, the range is fine, the damage is fine, and if SA was reworked to award bonuses for entering stealth and not for sitting in it (like was suggested years ago on forums etc) and the minor trait that gives the extra second of stealth on skills was removed/reworked, the stealth would probably be fine too.

 

Anyways, on topic; I'd still rather see a defensive support build with a shield based around counterattacks (successfully anticipated and countered attacks are reduced in damage or provide group buffs/utility or something like that, so you still have to actively time stuff to do stuff) than a shadow mage. It would open up PvP opportunities by making something that can stay on point and support, and generally would fit the theme of thief better.

[TorQ.7041]

> @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:

> > @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > Probably because most of the people who wanted to play assassins, tricksters, acrobatics, and skirmishers all quit the game.

> > That, and for whatever reason the necromancer runs green and bright yellow particle effects on most of its death-themed skills, and it's not enough for many of the edgelords who just wanna cover themselves in DARKNESS

> >

> > Most of the people who preferred the simplistic grit of core no longer like the game's super-over-the-top-Asian-RPG-wannabe aesthetic we've got going on.

> >

> > Let's be real here, most of what's left is glorified RP'ers who don't understand the fundamentals of the core class/game as it is.

> >

> > I mean, think about it. DE is a mechanically HORRIBLE elite spec because it's impossible to balance around core.

> > But stealth-sniper was the most-asked-for elite spec concept for PoF.

> >

> > So who's left that care enough to make requests? People who want shadow mages.

>

> Honestly, deadeye feels pretty balanced if you don't take dagger mainhand or SA, since you don't get the obnoxiously high damage with zero tell from 1 malice backstabs and taking acro provides cleanse at the cost of something else (shadow's embrace is generally speaking the only useful adept SA trait in a fight, while taking pain response means no instant reflexes, there's actual tradeoffs). The issue is more with the combination of stealth stacking with combo fields and SA, I think.

>

> In isolation, the range is fine, the damage is fine, and if SA was reworked to award bonuses for entering stealth and not for sitting in it (like was suggested years ago on forums etc) and the minor trait that gives the extra second of stealth on skills was removed/reworked, the stealth would probably be fine too.

>

> Anyways, on topic; I'd still rather see a defensive support build with a shield based around counterattacks (successfully anticipated and countered attacks are reduced in damage or provide group buffs/utility or something like that, so you still have to actively time stuff to do stuff) than a shadow mage. It would open up PvP opportunities by making something that can stay on point and support, and generally would fit the theme of thief better.

 

How does a sheild fit the theme of a rogue assassin class? Genuinely curious.

[JonnyForgotten.4276]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> Probably because most of the people who wanted to play assassins, tricksters, acrobatics, and skirmishers all quit the game.

 

so, yeah, still love the skirmisher part of our class, and DE does offer good options for that playstyle, especially in the current meta where range is so, so good for dealing with the aoe. It gives an extra way to build in to decap/mobility plus lots of damage at both melee and long range.

 

 

[foste.3098]

Going by the themes of thief, improvisation in particular, any weapon set can fit the class in a new elite spec in some form. Reason why i think we will get a scepter elite spec next is because thief lack a good mid range weapon/play style and a defensive/support build.

Also because the assassins from gw1 was the progenitor of the thief, and as such allot of skills and play styles are directly inspired by it, i'd like for everyone to remember these bad boys:

[Deadly Paradox](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Deadly_Paradox "https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Deadly_Paradox")

[Deadly Haste](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Deadly_Haste "https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Deadly_Haste")

[shadow Form](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shadow_Form "https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shadow_Form")

[signet of Toxic Shock](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Signet_of_Toxic_Shock "https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Signet_of_Toxic_Shock")

[TwiceDead.1963]

Yeah, I agree. We don't cast silly orbs around, we're all about:

Tying peoples shoelaces together..

Steal anything useful, and potentially use it against them..

Knock them out from concealment..

Or, throw sand in their eyes followed by a solid kick to the groin..

Insert a solid dagger in any fleshy bit to be revealed during any of these scenarios...

 

We're Rogues, Thieves, Thugs, we don't waste our lives dedicating it to some flimsy sword or magical art, that stuff is for kittens looking to boost their egos by being fancy(DD Staff Irony)... We steal, we fight dirty, and we use any means to win, and all _without_ honor!

 

At least that's how I view thieves. No honor among thieves.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"Jack Redline.5379" said:

> Why do you gus want to change Thief to Mesmer? I read so many coments these days and all of them want to make Thief a magician (shadow mage or whatever) what the hell is wrong with all of you? If you want to play Mesmer go play Mesmer. You will be more wanted in all game types. You will have easy rotation that masaccres everything. STOP TRYING TO CHANGE THIEF INTO MESMER PLEASE.

> Y'all talking about lets give Thief phantasms = mesmer stuff.

> Lets make thief use shadow magic = complete nonsense and you no matter what whoever says wont recognize it is

> Lets give thief scepter = magical artifact for MAGES

> Lets make thief support = again mesmer stuff. We have freaking two traits that can actually give some small support. Rending shade and Bountiful theft. Both of them weak enough you would use it even if you'd had to. DD has none and DE has maybe one i am not sure i dont play that,

> If you want magic. Go play one of the light armor magician classes. Leave us thieves alone.

>

> You watch prolly too much anime and you hope you will get to be like one of them characters jumping around shooting pistols with shady shadow crawling behind your back while daggers fly out of your hands and doing kung-fu like freaking Nuck Chorris.

> That aint gonna happen. It is not possible. Not in this game. Go play mesmer if you want to play mesmer.

> Dress it all in black and red so it is brutal and you got your dreamed out anime, super natural, magical phantasms casting, shots firing, clones blasing, enemies roasting, special unicorn!

> I am not salty i am just so tired of reading about all that stuff + it makes no sense. Thank you.

 

Theif is already magical like shadow steps. Theif is more physical than mesmer

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

> @"TorQ.7041" said:

> > @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:

> > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > > Probably because most of the people who wanted to play assassins, tricksters, acrobatics, and skirmishers all quit the game.

> > > That, and for whatever reason the necromancer runs green and bright yellow particle effects on most of its death-themed skills, and it's not enough for many of the edgelords who just wanna cover themselves in DARKNESS

> > >

> > > Most of the people who preferred the simplistic grit of core no longer like the game's super-over-the-top-Asian-RPG-wannabe aesthetic we've got going on.

> > >

> > > Let's be real here, most of what's left is glorified RP'ers who don't understand the fundamentals of the core class/game as it is.

> > >

> > > I mean, think about it. DE is a mechanically HORRIBLE elite spec because it's impossible to balance around core.

> > > But stealth-sniper was the most-asked-for elite spec concept for PoF.

> > >

> > > So who's left that care enough to make requests? People who want shadow mages.

> >

> > Honestly, deadeye feels pretty balanced if you don't take dagger mainhand or SA, since you don't get the obnoxiously high damage with zero tell from 1 malice backstabs and taking acro provides cleanse at the cost of something else (shadow's embrace is generally speaking the only useful adept SA trait in a fight, while taking pain response means no instant reflexes, there's actual tradeoffs). The issue is more with the combination of stealth stacking with combo fields and SA, I think.

> >

> > In isolation, the range is fine, the damage is fine, and if SA was reworked to award bonuses for entering stealth and not for sitting in it (like was suggested years ago on forums etc) and the minor trait that gives the extra second of stealth on skills was removed/reworked, the stealth would probably be fine too.

> >

> > Anyways, on topic; I'd still rather see a defensive support build with a shield based around counterattacks (successfully anticipated and countered attacks are reduced in damage or provide group buffs/utility or something like that, so you still have to actively time stuff to do stuff) than a shadow mage. It would open up PvP opportunities by making something that can stay on point and support, and generally would fit the theme of thief better.

>

> How does a sheild fit the theme of a rogue assassin class?

 

Honestly I picked the one handed weapon that thief lacks that is most likely to introduce a new playstyle. Offhand sword, while cool, is unlikely to add anything that current sword builds lack, and the majority of the other one had weapons are magical. Mace would also fit, I kinda figured offensive support is the niche that would fit thief best if we got something other than a DPS spec tho.

[JonnyForgotten.4276]

I would like to see mace as well, both main and off hand if that could be hoped for. Thinking a cc based offensive spec maybe coupled with a lot of short to mid range movement skills allowing for the thief to insert themselves wherever in the fight to have the most impact. Honestly have in mind those times in wvw or spvp where a well timed stun or immob gets someone torn apart by your team. Seems like a good start for a "support" niche for thief to me.