Personal DPS and other self-tracking

[zombyturtle.5980]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> That doesn't make sense; meta is about optimization ... groups that need the extra support are not close to meta. Necro carry build isn't meta in anything, because it's not optimal ever to have one.

>

> Still, I don't see what this relates to DPS meters. We got sidetracked a little

 

You and I are using different definitions of meta. When I say 'meta' I refer to the most optimal strategy for the group you are in. This is why we have 'pug' meta and 'pro' meta for things like fractals, but its just semantics.

 

Pugs dont follow meta, they use a comp that is 'one size fits all' and can comfortably cover all needed utility and mechanics to create smooth runs. Necro isnt 'one size fits all' on bosses so often isnt taken.

 

My point was I can use a DPS meter to firstly, improve myself and make sure my own performance is sufficient to have smooth clears, and also to discover if anyone else is slacking and contributing nothing, causing runs to be much harder, and for me unfun.

 

[Obtena.7952]

yes, you can use a DPS meter for that ... but there are also less intrusive ways to do that without enabling the bad behaviour of a certain class of player.

 

If you want to add the 'time' level for evaluating your fun, that's up to you to make/join teams where that's their mandate. In otherwords, you don't need a DPS meter for that.

[Aenesthesia.1697]

> @"Cynn.1659" said:

> **Dps meters need to be removed**

> Dps meters are the worst thing that has happened to this amazing game. They ruin all the fun for real playerbase,not even 1% of the players finished even one raid boss. Raids and dps meters bring nothing but toxic elitism to the game. You can't even have fun in tier one fractals these days, as someone will be insulting you for the way you play. Raids need to go away and dps meters need to be banned. Real part of the playerbase that keeps the game running plays open world. It's the best kind of content this game has to offer.

> **What does open world offer?**

> 1. Joy of exploration.

> 2. Teamwork of overcoming challenges.

> 3. People helping each other.

> 4. Gathering of useful resources..

 

Dps meters are great. I've been doing fractals for some time, and i wanted to impprove my performance but couldnt because there was no way to measure it. One day an asshole called me out for my low dps and i then discovered that dps meters existed. Did i cry? Did I whipp?

No, i installed the dpsmeter and discovered that the asshole was correct in his appreciation (though i don't care for his manners) and started changing my gameplay to eat more damage and trust more on the healer that is there for a reason. Boom, my damage improved, a lot, which is nice being a glass cannon.

 

Open world can offer many things, but teamwork? Dont make me laugh, there's no teamwork in spamming autoattacks. Eople helping each other? I've only seen it in hot maps and mindless farms. Open world could be great, but it's devoid of emotion because there is no chance to fail.

 

 

 

 

 

[zombyturtle.5980]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> yes, you can use a DPS meter for that ... but there are also less intrusive ways to do that without enabling the bad behaviour of a certain class of player.

>

> If you want to add the 'time' level for evaluating your fun, that's up to you to make/join teams where that's their mandate. In otherwords, you don't need a DPS meter for that.

 

What are the less intrusive ways. If we are struggling to phase gorseval for example. How can I tell which dps isnt fulfilling their role without a dps meter.

I do create and only join teams which should have smooth runs. Unfortunately people join these groups by lying about their experience level. Sometimes it is obvious, when they fail basic mechanics. However sometimes its not, and thats where dps meter can come in and pinpoint whos lied.

[deadpool.7036]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> there are other ways (or there are already those ways as 3rd party) without Anet having to do anything about it.

 

Well this isn't entirely true.

 

First, a 3rd party application means you are trusting a random person on the internet to install software on your computer. Software flagged by many anti-virua given the nature of it's operations. (Network sniffing and hooking into memory). Now, I mean no disrespect to the developer, but this is the reality. So technically, 3rd party tools arent really a great solution. Although the solution exists. (It's also possible that tomorrow Anet says dpa meters give people an unfair advantage by providing concrete data on how to "best" play in certain scenarios. Therefore a violation and now you're banned.) Without a proper sign off, this is a dangerous position (regardless of previous Anet positions on this).

 

Secondly, was would you suggest someone do, to track performance, without using a dps meter? And how precise, accurate, and helpful would that data be? And how tedious is that process?

 

 

 

I've seen a lot of back and forth. The reality is that DPS meters do not encourage bad behaviour, people simply behave badly. Before any of this, people we're picky about your build and playstyle... DPS meters provide concrete evidence whether or not you really know how to play. (Again, Obligatory: DPS is a small part here... No one is saying it's the only thing that matters.) And if it's only personal DPS.... How does this affect anyone but yourself? We already have DPS ratings posted on theory crafting sites....

 

 

[Gehenna.3625]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Even DPS meters aren't needed, because we have rage timers in raids (or whatever you want to call them).

No. Enrage timers are the only reason why you would actually need DPS meters. So the opposite is true. When you have enrage timers you need to kill the boss within that time. If your group fails to achieve this, you want to solve that problem and improve your DPS so you can beat the boss. But how can you solve it and improve, when you don't know where the problem is? DPS meters will tell you where the problem is.

 

If (and I mean if, I don't think ArenaNet needs to do this) ArenaNet would implement DPS meters in the game itself, I would make that a raid function only. But again, I don't think they need to do this.

 

Side note: I'm speaking about PvE purely as I do not PvP in this game. So there may be a real use/need for DPS meters in sPvP for example but I wouldn't be able to say.

 

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > Even DPS meters aren't needed, because we have rage timers in raids (or whatever you want to call them).

> No. Enrage timers are the only reason why you would actually need DPS meters. So the opposite is true. When you have enrage timers you need to kill the boss within that time. If your group fails to achieve this, you want to solve that problem and improve your DPS so you can beat the boss. But how can you solve it and improve, when you don't know where the problem is? DPS meters will tell you where the problem is.

>

> If (and I mean if, I don't think ArenaNet needs to do this) ArenaNet would implement DPS meters in the game itself, I would make that a raid function only. But again, I don't think they need to do this.

>

> Side note: I'm speaking about PvE purely as I do not PvP in this game. So there may be a real use/need for DPS meters in sPvP for example but I wouldn't be able to say.

>

 

Use combat log and calculator. And do the job yourself was always and will always an option

[Gehenna.3625]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > Even DPS meters aren't needed, because we have rage timers in raids (or whatever you want to call them).

> > No. Enrage timers are the only reason why you would actually need DPS meters. So the opposite is true. When you have enrage timers you need to kill the boss within that time. If your group fails to achieve this, you want to solve that problem and improve your DPS so you can beat the boss. But how can you solve it and improve, when you don't know where the problem is? DPS meters will tell you where the problem is.

> >

> > If (and I mean if, I don't think ArenaNet needs to do this) ArenaNet would implement DPS meters in the game itself, I would make that a raid function only. But again, I don't think they need to do this.

> >

> > Side note: I'm speaking about PvE purely as I do not PvP in this game. So there may be a real use/need for DPS meters in sPvP for example but I wouldn't be able to say.

> >

>

> Use combat log and calculator

 

Why stop there? Let's go for the abacus.

 

This is me hoping you were joking...

 

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > Even DPS meters aren't needed, because we have rage timers in raids (or whatever you want to call them).

> > > No. Enrage timers are the only reason why you would actually need DPS meters. So the opposite is true. When you have enrage timers you need to kill the boss within that time. If your group fails to achieve this, you want to solve that problem and improve your DPS so you can beat the boss. But how can you solve it and improve, when you don't know where the problem is? DPS meters will tell you where the problem is.

> > >

> > > If (and I mean if, I don't think ArenaNet needs to do this) ArenaNet would implement DPS meters in the game itself, I would make that a raid function only. But again, I don't think they need to do this.

> > >

> > > Side note: I'm speaking about PvE purely as I do not PvP in this game. So there may be a real use/need for DPS meters in sPvP for example but I wouldn't be able to say.

> > >

> >

> > Use combat log and calculator

>

> Why stop there? Let's go for the abacus.

>

> This is me hoping you were joking...

>

 

I was joking

[Gehenna.3625]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > Even DPS meters aren't needed, because we have rage timers in raids (or whatever you want to call them).

> > > > No. Enrage timers are the only reason why you would actually need DPS meters. So the opposite is true. When you have enrage timers you need to kill the boss within that time. If your group fails to achieve this, you want to solve that problem and improve your DPS so you can beat the boss. But how can you solve it and improve, when you don't know where the problem is? DPS meters will tell you where the problem is.

> > > >

> > > > If (and I mean if, I don't think ArenaNet needs to do this) ArenaNet would implement DPS meters in the game itself, I would make that a raid function only. But again, I don't think they need to do this.

> > > >

> > > > Side note: I'm speaking about PvE purely as I do not PvP in this game. So there may be a real use/need for DPS meters in sPvP for example but I wouldn't be able to say.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Use combat log and calculator

> >

> > Why stop there? Let's go for the abacus.

> >

> > This is me hoping you were joking...

> >

>

> I was joking

 

Faith in humanity restored lol

[yann.1946]

> @"Cynn.1659" said:

> **Dps meters need to be removed**

> Dps meters are the worst thing that has happened to this amazing game. They ruin all the fun for real playerbase,not even 1% of the players finished even one raid boss. Raids and dps meters bring nothing but toxic elitism to the game. You can't even have fun in tier one fractals these days, as someone will be insulting you for the way you play. Raids need to go away and dps meters need to be banned. Real part of the playerbase that keeps the game running plays open world. It's the best kind of content this game has to offer.

> **What does open world offer?**

> 1. Joy of exploration.

> 2. Teamwork of overcoming challenges.

> 3. People helping each other.

> 4. Gathering of useful resources..

> 5. Feeling like you are part of the big world, striving to make a difference.

>

> **What do raids offer?**

> 1. Toxic elitism that starts ruining the game for everyone.

>

> **What needs to change?**

> Arena Net Must stop wasting time on developing raids for less than 1% of the playebase composed of nothing but toxic elitists. We could be getting new open world maps every 1,5 months if it wasn't being for the developer time wasted on developing content that nobody plays. And we can't even try to join that content, because toxic elitists will kick anyone for anything they don't like. Ever since raids were introduced, the quality of the game has been getting worse.

>

>

> Arena Net please make this game great again, where we all can enjoy ourselves without being assaulted by toxicity from all angles.

>

 

Where does this unreasonable hatred come from?

 

- The amount of maps won't increase that much if at all based on the amount of devs working on them.

 

- Where did you get 1% from?

 

- Why do you consider it okay to take a game-mode away from people?

[ReaverKane.7598]

I read the first comment only, and i agree a whole lot with @"dace.8019" the game devs wanted us to play back in 2012 is a very different game from the game we're playing now in 2015. But there's a lot of "stubbornness", for lack of better adjective, from Arena Net when it concerns to the UI and the look of the game. Doesn't matter that they themselves have put the abomination that the "Novelties" button is into the UI, something that's more place-holder than anything else. Doesn't matter that there's add-ons that have to be almost "hacked" into the game that do a better job of UI/UX like the mount selection wheel someone made but i don't use, because keybinds.

 

DPS meters fall somewhere in the "they know it's needed, but doesn't really fit their aesthetic/vision, so they're not spending dev time on it". What happens is that players and add-on developers have to walk a tightrope of "is this really allowed?", until it isn't.

Right now there's only a single DPS meter, and by the developer's own admission he's hacking into the game to make it, that's why there's no source code available. This creates a problem with trust, because the software has to be made opaque, and a lot of people won't use it.

And there's no doubt that since raids, it's pretty much required, because there's a whole game apart from what "can finish" a fractal, and what "can finish" a Raid, not only in mechanics, but in terms of synergy and the tactics used.

 

And yes, this is an issue created solely by the developers. They chose to make the UI stiff, which countermands even what the original Guild Wars was doing. I mean if you looked at a paper description of just the UI customization options, and then had to guess which was a game launched in 2004 and which was in 2012, you'd probably guess wrong.

Then they compounded on that issue with how boss strategies work, and how for optimal runs you need to ensure maximum DPS on most of the raid components, because all bosses are on a timer. The timer alone is enough to remove other options that aren't just a heavy DPS output from most people's table. Sure you can create a tanky group and wail on it for a long time, ensure you can survive the enrage.

But most groups, especially PUGs, will just /gg when the enrage is coming.

 

There's been 2 expansions already, and little (nothing really) has been done in terms of UI improvements or addon support. The same can kind of be told about other QoL and reworks that should have been part of expansions, like upgrades. There's a lot been done "under the hood", but it's just not noticeable overall, especially since most only applies to new areas, like the lighting is totally different in PoF than in the rest of the game, and anyone using a post-processing add-on will know how much of a blow out it can be to switch between core and PoF.

 

But we're also to blame. Even though the expansions have been little more than Living World seasons packed into a single release with a new set of elites, and little else. We still bought them, with the next expansion might be time to make Arena Net notice that a third expansion that does little more than a living world season does (or can do), is not enough, not really.

 

 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

> @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > Even DPS meters aren't needed, because we have rage timers in raids (or whatever you want to call them).

> No. Enrage timers are the only reason why you would actually need DPS meters. So the opposite is true. When you have enrage timers you need to kill the boss within that time. If your group fails to achieve this, you want to solve that problem and improve your DPS so you can beat the boss. But how can you solve it and improve, when you don't know where the problem is? DPS meters will tell you where the problem is.

 

This here is probably one of the biggest myths with DPS meters. They don't tell you how to improve. At all. They don't tell you where the problem is. They just give you a measure of your current standing. Saying a DPS meter improves your DPS is like saying a yardstick makes you taller. The only way a DPS meter "solves" the problem is if you kick players with lower DPS and invite in somebody better.

[Aenesthesia.1697]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > Even DPS meters aren't needed, because we have rage timers in raids (or whatever you want to call them).

> > No. Enrage timers are the only reason why you would actually need DPS meters. So the opposite is true. When you have enrage timers you need to kill the boss within that time. If your group fails to achieve this, you want to solve that problem and improve your DPS so you can beat the boss. But how can you solve it and improve, when you don't know where the problem is? DPS meters will tell you where the problem is.

>

> This here is probably one of the biggest myths with DPS meters. They don't tell you how to improve. At all. They don't tell you where the problem is. They just give you a measure of your current standing. Saying a DPS meter improves your DPS is like saying a yardstick makes you taller. The only way a DPS meter "solves" the problem is if you kick players with lower DPS and invite in somebody better.

 

No. The first step to self improvement is knowing where you are. That's why you see all those fitness obsessed guys with their wearables. If you cannot measure your performance, how do you know you are improving? How do you know you are not going in the wrong direction?

 

only people that are perfect (cannot improve) or mediocre (don't want to improve) or are in the wrong place (don't care... But still want to do high level fractals or raids) don't need to know how they are performing.

 

[Aenesthesia.1697]

> @"ATMAvatar.5749" said:

> DPS meters make me a little sad, in that it inevitably results in skewed balance between classes to pacify the community. In the MMO's I've played that had DPS meters, PvE balance always resulted in equalizing class DPS across the board without regard for other factors like survivability and utility, and GW2 has been no exception to this.

>

> That said, DPS meters are a reality that isn't going away, so if we're going to have to live with them, I would at least want them to be as accurate and versatile as possible. ArcDPS is a valiant effort, but it definitely has some warts.

 

With dps meters i can bring my necro to fractals and no one will say i do low damage just by seeing my profession.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"Aenesthesia.1697" said:

> > @"ATMAvatar.5749" said:

> > DPS meters make me a little sad, in that it inevitably results in skewed balance between classes to pacify the community. In the MMO's I've played that had DPS meters, PvE balance always resulted in equalizing class DPS across the board without regard for other factors like survivability and utility, and GW2 has been no exception to this.

> >

> > That said, DPS meters are a reality that isn't going away, so if we're going to have to live with them, I would at least want them to be as accurate and versatile as possible. ArcDPS is a valiant effort, but it definitely has some warts.

>

> With dps meters i can bring my necro to fractals and no one will say i do low damage just by seeing my profession.

 

Same with ranger

[RaidsAreEasyAF.8652]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> This here is probably one of the biggest myths with DPS meters. They don't tell you how to improve. At all. They don't tell you where the problem is. They just give you a >measure of your current standing. Saying a DPS meter improves your DPS is like saying a yardstick makes you taller. The only way a DPS meter "solves" the problem is if >you kick players with lower DPS and invite in somebody better.

 

The DPS Meter lets you measure how much you have improved. You get better by actually looking at the logs created by the DPS Meter and comparing them with other people.

 

 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

> @"Aenesthesia.1697" said:

> > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > Even DPS meters aren't needed, because we have rage timers in raids (or whatever you want to call them).

> > > No. Enrage timers are the only reason why you would actually need DPS meters. So the opposite is true. When you have enrage timers you need to kill the boss within that time. If your group fails to achieve this, you want to solve that problem and improve your DPS so you can beat the boss. But how can you solve it and improve, when you don't know where the problem is? DPS meters will tell you where the problem is.

> >

> > This here is probably one of the biggest myths with DPS meters. They don't tell you how to improve. At all. They don't tell you where the problem is. They just give you a measure of your current standing. Saying a DPS meter improves your DPS is like saying a yardstick makes you taller. The only way a DPS meter "solves" the problem is if you kick players with lower DPS and invite in somebody better.

>

> No. The first step to self improvement is knowing where you are. That's why you see all those fitness obsessed guys with teir wearables. If you cannot messure your performance, how do you know you are improving? How do you know you are not going in the wrong direction?

>

> omly people that are perfect (cannot improve) or mediocre (don't want to improve) don't need to know how they are doing.

>

 

No. The first step to self improvement is to seek out how to self improve. The only way people actually improve their DPS is by looking up how to do good DPS from somebody else who's already figured it out. This is because that whole mythical journey of self-discovery requires turning the game into a second job, wherein you do a lot of math and test out countless iterations for countless hours to find the best one. Even then, you might just be at a local maximum, because you lack the innovation and creativity to try a completely separate approach.

 

Players were figuring out DPS rotations for years before meters were introduced into the game. It's a lot of math but it is simple math. If you did meaningfully better, you could generally see the results.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

> @"RaidsAreEasyAF.8652" said:

> > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > This here is probably one of the biggest myths with DPS meters. They don't tell you how to improve. At all. They don't tell you where the problem is. They just give you a >measure of your current standing. Saying a DPS meter improves your DPS is like saying a yardstick makes you taller. The only way a DPS meter "solves" the problem is if >you kick players with lower DPS and invite in somebody better.

>

> The DPS Meter lets you measure how much you have improved. You get better by actually looking at the logs created by the DPS Meter and comparing them with other people.

>

>

 

They're still not telling you how to improve. To see how far you've come, you need to have already improved in the first place, which would require means outside of the DPS meter.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > @"RaidsAreEasyAF.8652" said:

> > > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > > This here is probably one of the biggest myths with DPS meters. They don't tell you how to improve. At all. They don't tell you where the problem is. They just give you a >measure of your current standing. Saying a DPS meter improves your DPS is like saying a yardstick makes you taller. The only way a DPS meter "solves" the problem is if >you kick players with lower DPS and invite in somebody better.

> >

> > The DPS Meter lets you measure how much you have improved. You get better by actually looking at the logs created by the DPS Meter and comparing them with other people.

> >

> >

>

> They're still not telling you how to improve. To see how far you've come, you need to have already improved in the first place, which would require means outside of the DPS meter.

 

Game has a built in meter its called combat log all you need to use it is math and a calculator. Meter is just a lazy shortcut.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > @"Aenesthesia.1697" said:

> > > @"ATMAvatar.5749" said:

> > > DPS meters make me a little sad, in that it inevitably results in skewed balance between classes to pacify the community. In the MMO's I've played that had DPS meters, PvE balance always resulted in equalizing class DPS across the board without regard for other factors like survivability and utility, and GW2 has been no exception to this.

> > >

> > > That said, DPS meters are a reality that isn't going away, so if we're going to have to live with them, I would at least want them to be as accurate and versatile as possible. ArcDPS is a valiant effort, but it definitely has some warts.

> >

> > With dps meters i can bring my necro to fractals and no one will say i do low damage just by seeing my profession.

>

> Same with ranger

 

This is probably the second biggest myth. I still see players get chastised for bringing certain classes into fractals and raids. There's probably still LFGs that only want deadeyes and weavers. DPS meters didn't give permission for low performing classes to get into groups, they just give discriminatory players all the justification they need to kick first and ask questions never.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > @"Aenesthesia.1697" said:

> > > > @"ATMAvatar.5749" said:

> > > > DPS meters make me a little sad, in that it inevitably results in skewed balance between classes to pacify the community. In the MMO's I've played that had DPS meters, PvE balance always resulted in equalizing class DPS across the board without regard for other factors like survivability and utility, and GW2 has been no exception to this.

> > > >

> > > > That said, DPS meters are a reality that isn't going away, so if we're going to have to live with them, I would at least want them to be as accurate and versatile as possible. ArcDPS is a valiant effort, but it definitely has some warts.

> > >

> > > With dps meters i can bring my necro to fractals and no one will say i do low damage just by seeing my profession.

> >

> > Same with ranger

>

> This is probably the second biggest myth. I still see players get chastised for bringing certain classes into fractals and raids. There's probably still LFGs that only want deadeyes and weavers. DPS meters didn't give permission for low performing classes to get into groups, they just give discriminatory players all the justification they need to kick first and ask questions never.

 

I think diffrently i think its a duty if you perform higher and some same does lower to help player improve and i want kick feuture and leave to be remove or.have penalty like leave group in middle wil block you from said content for 2 hours and increasingly and kick should not beboption if person wants to be carried then carry the person itsbnot your place to say his ways or wishes is wrong

[Aenesthesia.1697]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > @"Aenesthesia.1697" said:

> > > > @"ATMAvatar.5749" said:

> > > > DPS meters make me a little sad, in that it inevitably results in skewed balance between classes to pacify the community. In the MMO's I've played that had DPS meters, PvE balance always resulted in equalizing class DPS across the board without regard for other factors like survivability and utility, and GW2 has been no exception to this.

> > > >

> > > > That said, DPS meters are a reality that isn't going away, so if we're going to have to live with them, I would at least want them to be as accurate and versatile as possible. ArcDPS is a valiant effort, but it definitely has some warts.

> > >

> > > With dps meters i can bring my necro to fractals and no one will say i do low damage just by seeing my profession.

> >

> > Same with ranger

>

> This is probably the second biggest myth. I still see players get chastised for bringing certain classes into fractals and raids. There's probably still LFGs that only want deadeyes and weavers. DPS meters didn't give permission for low performing classes to get into groups, they just give discriminatory players all the justification they need to kick first and ask questions never.

 

At least now they kick based on damage. Before tdps meters, they kicked based on what they thought damage would be, based on some theoretical number that in a real fight was hardly achievable.

[FrostDraco.8306]

> @"Aenesthesia.1697" said:

> > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > > @"Aenesthesia.1697" said:

> > > > > @"ATMAvatar.5749" said:

> > > > > DPS meters make me a little sad, in that it inevitably results in skewed balance between classes to pacify the community. In the MMO's I've played that had DPS meters, PvE balance always resulted in equalizing class DPS across the board without regard for other factors like survivability and utility, and GW2 has been no exception to this.

> > > > >

> > > > > That said, DPS meters are a reality that isn't going away, so if we're going to have to live with them, I would at least want them to be as accurate and versatile as possible. ArcDPS is a valiant effort, but it definitely has some warts.

> > > >

> > > > With dps meters i can bring my necro to fractals and no one will say i do low damage just by seeing my profession.

> > >

> > > Same with ranger

> >

> > This is probably the second biggest myth. I still see players get chastised for bringing certain classes into fractals and raids. There's probably still LFGs that only want deadeyes and weavers. DPS meters didn't give permission for low performing classes to get into groups, they just give discriminatory players all the justification they need to kick first and ask questions never.

>

> At least now they kick based on damage. Before tdps meters, they kicked based on what they thought damage would be, based on some theoretical number that in a real fight was hardly achievable.

 

And the whole reason that was even an issue is because what again? Oh right. The devs put misleading pop in's in the game which didn't show you actual DPS but total damage, so people had to use the pen and paper method, and that was the result.

 

Congratz, you just debunked your own argument. Thank you for perfectly displaying why we needed dps meters.

 

At least now, you can't say the kicks are never logically justfied :3.

 

Progress.

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

My biggest problem with the DPS meter comes from the assumption written in the thread-title:

 

**Personal DPS and other self-tracking**

 

Current example: Lab farm Guide/Build/Rotation for 850+ Trick or Treat bags per hour! Enjoy!

 

The topic starter was kind enough to link a video. About 1/8 of the screen, top-right, is filled with a nice table. I do not use any dps meter, so I honestly asked him if it was one. It was the case. Normally I would let it rest there, but he was quite eager to inform us how his genius method works and what rules & guidelines apply to his squad. He simply wants everyone to do as less damage as possible, even disarm the ascended trinkets. People are also not allowed to use mount-engages, in order to do not so much damage. Normal stuff if you say so.

 

Now the interesting part came when he talked about how restrictive he acts with violations of his guidelines. He locks the squad so looting outside of it is very difficult and people violating his guidelines are kicked out of the squad. It is a free world, you can do whatever you want with your squad.

 

On the one hand we have quite restrictive behavior towards too high damage output, on the other hand we have a squad-leader with an active dps-meter. A dps-meter that tracks the damage of all players in his squad. I know what is coming now, I asked him why the dps meter was runing and he told me

 

"Dps meter is up because if I close it I'll have to reconfigure, and that's effort I don't need to expend."

 

I do not buy it, sorry. Neither am I willing to believe that he is never going to look on the left part of the table. If you have an advantage, you use it.

 

You guys know that the self-tracking is one of the few excuses for using the dps-meters. And in such an obvious case I should believe it is active because of laziness? I do not think this will have an aftermath, ANet is a lot more relaxed about that topic than I am. But for the future, tell your friends to shut down the dps-meters for stuff like that. Or at least edit it out before you upload the video. If you want to fool us, put some effort into it.

 

-

Why does the dps-meter have a group-tracking-function in the first place? Let's say a group wants to see its progress in a raid, everyone runs an own dps-meter with only self-tracking-function. After the run, they upload their reports. Let there be a tool inside the meter to import reports with a comparison feature. Move the comparison part where it belongs, out of the game.