Renegade Icerazor´s ire

[Noha.3749]

Hey fellas!

Im a plebrev, curious about Renegade powerbuilds and comparisons.

 

Just noticed Icerazors Ire deals quite a bit of damage, and on paper it looks to be on par with Elementalists meteor shower except shorter castrange.

 

Just messing around a bit in the editor and im getting the damage of Icerazors ire up to 3400dmg. While an elementalist with the same gear and "optimal" talents reach about 2400dmg.

 

Now the descriptions of both skills differ quite a bit.

 

Meteor shower deals 2.4k per hit over 24 hits, and each hit can hit 3 targets.

Icerazors Ire deals 3.4k damage over 20 hits, and tooltip says it "hits"20times during its duration.

 

Now i havent unlocked renegade on my poor lowbobrev, but can any of you confirm / have a look at this?

 

For the record i do know that Herald is meta in WvW, and i am solely talking about blobfighting so no hardcore PvE comments needed :)

[Noha.3749]

Also can someone please try out Citadel Bombardment? seems to scale "ok" with power, with 514 damage x 10-15hits.

 

Thanks! <3

[Justine.6351]

Icerazor's Ire damage is divided between targets and has a cast range of 600.

Citadel Bombardment looks impressive but it's potential is roughly the same with Herald's Elemental Blast which is free, not lol35energy.

 

Imo the most impressive items on renegade are,

Darkrazor's Daring

Orders From Above

Soulcleave's Summit

Breakrazor's Bastion

 

Considering 3 of those skills are Kalla summons, I should note that they can be obnoxious to use due to issues with "no path to target location".

 

Herald is better because it's easier to use, has a 3 second invulnerability that can also heal to full, easy boons for all, is extremely cheap on energy and probably has higher reliable damage.

[Noha.3749]

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> Icerazor's Ire damage is divided between targets and has a cast range of 600.

> Citadel Bombardment looks impressive but it's potential is roughly the same with Herald's Elemental Blast which is free, not lol35energy.

>

> Imo the most impressive items on renegade are,

> Darkrazor's Daring

> Orders From Above

> Soulcleave's Summit

> Breakrazor's Bastion

>

> Considering 3 of those skills are Kalla summons, I should note that they can be obnoxious to use due to issues with "no path to target location".

>

> Herald is better because it's easier to use, has a 3 second invulnerability that can also heal to full, easy boons for all, is extremely cheap on energy and probably has higher reliable damage.

 

alright thanks alot for clearifying it for me.

 

Have a nice day :) !

[messiah.1908]

in wvw the problem is with blob fight your summons get killed in 0.5 sec so even with 20k dmg per hit it wont do much. in small scale fights its nice and taking camp also nice

 

the only viable skill is the elite due to no cd on it and mainly used with range group so you buff their dmg by 20%

[narcx.3570]

> @"Noha.3749" said:

> Hey fellas!

> Im a plebrev, curious about Renegade powerbuilds and comparisons.

>

> Just noticed Icerazors Ire deals quite a bit of damage, and on paper it looks to be on par with Elementalists meteor shower except shorter castrange.

>

> Just messing around a bit in the editor and im getting the damage of Icerazors ire up to 3400dmg. While an elementalist with the same gear and "optimal" talents reach about 2400dmg.

>

> Now the descriptions of both skills differ quite a bit.

>

> Meteor shower deals 2.4k per hit over 24 hits, and each hit can hit 3 targets.

> Icerazors Ire deals 3.4k damage over 20 hits, and tooltip says it "hits"20times during its duration.

>

> Now i havent unlocked renegade on my poor lowbobrev, but can any of you confirm / have a look at this?

>

> For the record i do know that Herald is meta in WvW, and i am solely talking about blobfighting so no hardcore PvE comments needed :)

 

A big pro to Icerazor is that the 'bolts" that it shoots actually come from the spirit, so if you plop the center of the circle to spawn the spirit inside of your target's hitbox, all 20 strikes will hit it. Things like Citadel Bombardment, Meteor Shower, Lightning Storm, Etc have a level of RNG to the strikes--which is why they're more effective against large hitbox enemies than small ones. (As of a few patches ago, Ele skills of this nature also suffer from a form of diminished returns when striking the same target as well.)

 

This is why you're see'ing higher numbers from Icerazor... That said, Kalla in a power build is still less dps than Herald. :bleep_bloop:

 

It should also be said that if you're just testing the skills against each other, it's not entirely accurate, as a correct Staff Weaver rotation will make sure to be landing as much of meteor shower within Elements of Rage/Lightning Hammer/assorted air trait bonuses as possible. What this means is that in the context of an actual rotation, MS will be doing more damage than Icerazor, but when you put them in a vacuum like you did, it seems to be doing less.

 

I know you said no hardcore pvp comments needed, but a lot of this applies to WvW too (except everything about hitbox sizes.) But in WvW renegade has much bigger problems such as a lack of survivability and your spirits being able to be killed/cc'd instantly... Probably so much so that it's not even worth testing these sorts of things out, since in an actual fight, Icerazor will do closer to zero damage.

[ArthurDent.9538]

Going to reference the wiki which lists the associated power coefficients of each skill which is a relatively effective way to compare skill damage in a vacuum.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Meteor_Shower

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Icerazor%27s_Ire

 

The way meteor shower works it is a 1.6 power multiplier for the first of 24 hits which is reduced by .16 down to a minimum value of 0.32. So the total power coefficient when all 24 hits land is equal to 1.6 + 1.44+1.28+1.12+.96+.8+.64+.48+.32*(24-8)=13.44.

 

Icerazor's ire on the other hand is listed as a 4.6 power coefficient total for all 20 hits as is listed in the wiki. The way I know that the 4.6 power coefficient is for all 20 hits is because if it was 4.6 for each individual hit it would do an absurdly high amount of damage when compared to every other skill in the game and I know from experience that it doesn't.

 

So in a vacuum, full damage from meteor shower when all meteors hit is approximately 2.92 times as powerful as icerazor's ire when all 20 of it's projectiles hit. Which seems kind of crappy however icerazor has the major advantage of only having a 1/2 second cast time compared to meteor shower's 3.75 second cast time. So we can add in a few sword auto attacks after casting icerazor fill out the extra 3.25 seconds that meteor shower is taking to finish casting to more directly compare how much each skill adds to dps over a 3.75 second window. Using the wiki we can calculated that sword auto attack has about a 1.524 power coefficient/second neglecting any aftercasts so total power coeficient for icerazor + sword autos is 4.6 + 1.524*3.25 = 9.554. By this criteria meteor shower is now only 1.4 times as powerfull as icerazor for increasing dps in a vacuum.

 

However there is a lot more to consider if we really dig into it, for instance icerazor will hit an intended target all 20 times every time regardless of rng or hit box size when it is placed directly in the targets hit box while meteor shower is massively affected by randomness and will rarely hit the same target all 24 times even on larger hit boxes. In fact meteor shower needs to hit at least 12 times in order for it to reach a 9.6 power coefficient over its 3.75 second cast to match the coefficient of icerazor + sword auto attacks, 12 hits will rarely happen against smaller targets so ice razor is on average better there.

 

On the other hand meteor shower has much higher potential against multiple enemies where the best case scenario would be each meteor hitting 3 enemies with no 2 meteors hitting the same enemy resulting in a total aoe power coefficient of 1.6 * 24 * 3= 115.2 which is absolutely massive (and incredibly unlikely, actual coeficient will be a fraction of that typically but still much higher than icerazor) compared to the flat 4.6 coefficient that icerazor has since each projectile only can hit 1 target max. And then there are traits which provide various power multipliers which vary from class to class which affect damage potential. Ice razor also gets countered by projectile reflection/destruction while meteor shower isn't. So I guess in conclusion icerazor is better on average against single small hit box targets while meteor shower is better against large hitbox enemies or many different enemies at once but one can't just say that either of these skills are superior to the other in all situations.

 

That went on too long.

[Noha.3749]

@"ArthurDent.9538"

Thanks alot mate, that really clearifies it :) guess im sticking to herald in WvW blobs then. I didnt know that hammer backline deals so incredibly much damage against both frontline and backline zergs... god dayum..

Would be fun though if Icerazors Ire worked a bit more like Meteor shower though :)