Staff Change idea: Auto Attack let's out a cone Healing mist like Engineer Med kit

[Knighthonor.4061]

I have a great idea that can make Staff a better support weapon to justify it's usage in comparison to other weapons while playing Support Revenant.

 

Energy is a major thing with support Revenant. Auto attack don't have an energy cost. Right now Staff as is it not worth the usage of as anything other than a utility weapon.

 

The idea here

Like Med Kit auto was changed into, what if Staff got a AoE healing mist on the second chain skill Forceful Bash and the 3rd Chain skill Rejuvenating Assault?

 

For PvE this would require Support Revenant to position themselves behind enemies to heal their allies who attack from he front.

This provides synergy with Devastation specialization trait Assassin's Annihilation, which grants lifesteal when attacking from the back. Works well together, while also making Staff more of an actual support weapon. Doesn't seem OP and makes Staff more useful as a support weapon.

 

What's your thoughts on this?

[Dace.8173]

Still wondering why of all the weapons that Revenant needs improvement on, people pick the one weapon that doesn't need improvement to keep pushing as the weapon that should get fixed. Those are my thoughts. Staff is a utility weapon. It is the only utility weapon Revenant has. It doesn't need to be anything more than it currently is. We need to find ways to get other weapons improved so that staff isn't having to carry the vast workload that everyone wants it to carry.

 

But sure, let's have another staff needs more gimmicks thread.

[Knighthonor.4061]

> @"Dace.8173" said:

> Still wondering why of all the weapons that Revenant needs improvement on, people pick the one weapon that doesn't need improvement to keep pushing as the weapon that should get fixed. Those are my thoughts. Staff is a utility weapon. It is the only utility weapon Revenant has. It doesn't need to be anything more than it currently is. We need to find ways to get other weapons improved so that staff isn't having to carry the vast workload that everyone wants it to carry.

>

> But sure, let's have another staff needs more gimmicks thread.

 

I would assume for similar reasons I have, which is that Revenants has no real Support weapon. All legends have a weapon that goes with them. Staff currently was meant for Ventari/Salvation Specialization yet doesn't fit the role since it's the only weapon that isn't equally as useful. Staff was meant to be the support weapon and currently its performance for that doesn't justify it. It's poor at anything else besides the skill 3, and 5.

 

This Change would make the weapon a good main weapon for support Revenants and would somewhat justify Support Revenant to use Staff and traits associated with staff. And it has synergy with devastation.

[Dace.8173]

> @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > Still wondering why of all the weapons that Revenant needs improvement on, people pick the one weapon that doesn't need improvement to keep pushing as the weapon that should get fixed. Those are my thoughts. Staff is a utility weapon. It is the only utility weapon Revenant has. It doesn't need to be anything more than it currently is. We need to find ways to get other weapons improved so that staff isn't having to carry the vast workload that everyone wants it to carry.

> >

> > But sure, let's have another staff needs more gimmicks thread.

>

> I would assume for similar reasons I have, which is that Revenants has no real Support weapon. All legends have a weapon that goes with them. Staff currently was meant for Ventari/Salvation Specialization yet doesn't fit the role since it's the only weapon that isn't equally as useful. Staff was meant to be the support weapon and currently its performance for that doesn't justify it. It's poor at anything else besides the skill 3, and 5.

>

> This Change would make the weapon a good main weapon for support Revenants and would somewhat justify Support Revenant to use Staff and traits associated with staff. And it has synergy with devastation.

 

It's a great utility weapon. It's why you see it in so many builds. If it wasn't good at what it does Revenant wouldn't rely on the weapon nearly as much as it currently does. It isn't meant to be a main hand weapon. I think if people were pushing for other weapons to be fixed folks wouldn't need to rely on staff to do so much. However, since the focus is on the staff the other weapons that need to be worked on languish in purgatory.

[Knighthonor.4061]

> @"Dace.8173" said:

> > @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> > > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > Still wondering why of all the weapons that Revenant needs improvement on, people pick the one weapon that doesn't need improvement to keep pushing as the weapon that should get fixed. Those are my thoughts. Staff is a utility weapon. It is the only utility weapon Revenant has. It doesn't need to be anything more than it currently is. We need to find ways to get other weapons improved so that staff isn't having to carry the vast workload that everyone wants it to carry.

> > >

> > > But sure, let's have another staff needs more gimmicks thread.

> >

> > I would assume for similar reasons I have, which is that Revenants has no real Support weapon. All legends have a weapon that goes with them. Staff currently was meant for Ventari/Salvation Specialization yet doesn't fit the role since it's the only weapon that isn't equally as useful. Staff was meant to be the support weapon and currently its performance for that doesn't justify it. It's poor at anything else besides the skill 3, and 5.

> >

> > This Change would make the weapon a good main weapon for support Revenants and would somewhat justify Support Revenant to use Staff and traits associated with staff. And it has synergy with devastation.

>

> It's a great utility weapon. It's why you see it in so many builds. If it wasn't good at what it does Revenant wouldn't rely on the weapon nearly as much as it currently does. It isn't meant to be a main hand weapon. I think if people were pushing for other weapons to be fixed folks wouldn't need to rely on staff to do so much. However, since the focus is on the staff the other weapons that need to be worked on languish in purgatory.

 

Ok quick question. "Why" is Staff a great Utility Weapon for all other builds? Answer that "Why". Because I mentioned it already. That has nothing to do with Support. Why once again should Support take another sacrifice for every other build role? Support Ventari is already unplayable in SPvP at all, and the simple request that the baseline weapon that was meant for Support Revenant actually get improved to do well what it was originally made to do, and people like you say it shouldn't be improved since two skills on the thing are good for non support roles... That's ridiculous.

[Dace.8173]

> @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> > > > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > > Still wondering why of all the weapons that Revenant needs improvement on, people pick the one weapon that doesn't need improvement to keep pushing as the weapon that should get fixed. Those are my thoughts. Staff is a utility weapon. It is the only utility weapon Revenant has. It doesn't need to be anything more than it currently is. We need to find ways to get other weapons improved so that staff isn't having to carry the vast workload that everyone wants it to carry.

> > > >

> > > > But sure, let's have another staff needs more gimmicks thread.

> > >

> > > I would assume for similar reasons I have, which is that Revenants has no real Support weapon. All legends have a weapon that goes with them. Staff currently was meant for Ventari/Salvation Specialization yet doesn't fit the role since it's the only weapon that isn't equally as useful. Staff was meant to be the support weapon and currently its performance for that doesn't justify it. It's poor at anything else besides the skill 3, and 5.

> > >

> > > This Change would make the weapon a good main weapon for support Revenants and would somewhat justify Support Revenant to use Staff and traits associated with staff. And it has synergy with devastation.

> >

> > It's a great utility weapon. It's why you see it in so many builds. If it wasn't good at what it does Revenant wouldn't rely on the weapon nearly as much as it currently does. It isn't meant to be a main hand weapon. I think if people were pushing for other weapons to be fixed folks wouldn't need to rely on staff to do so much. However, since the focus is on the staff the other weapons that need to be worked on languish in purgatory.

>

> Ok quick question. "Why" is Staff a great Utility Weapon for all other builds? Answer that "Why". Because I mentioned it already. That has nothing to do with Support. Why once again should Support take another sacrifice for every other build role? Support Ventari is already unplayable in SPvP at all, and the simple request that the baseline weapon that was meant for Support Revenant actually get improved to do well what it was originally made to do, and people like you say it shouldn't be improved since two skills on the thing are good for non support roles... That's ridiculous.

 

Offers you an evade, a gap closer, brief condi cleanse/heal, and blocks. Block is useful to help protect against kiting and the staff is the only weapon Revenant has that is worthwhile carrying for that function. Hammer is far too slow of a weapon to carry just for block and shield is fairly worthless as a weapon overall. The evade is another protection against kiting and it also operates as a gap closer. In the absence of other strong weapon choices, staff becomes the weapon that most builds rely on. Improving staff will not make Ventari playable in PvP. Staff already functions well as a support weapon. The problem is not that it doesn't work as a support weapon but that Ventari doesn't work. Adding an AOE heal to the second attack will mean that it becomes even more standard in Revenant builds. It will not, however, induce people to slot Ventari and Salvation. More to the point, adding an AOE heal and a brief Energy gain will not induce people to play Ventari and Salvation in PvP. Salvation and Ventari are simply not useful enough to use in PvP.

 

No amount of toying with staff is going to change that since the staff is not the reason why Ventari and Salvation are weak in PvP. Support, as a build type, also does not suffer because staff isn't giving you an AOE heal and Energy gain. We already take staff into PvP and we leave Ventari, Salvation, and support as a build type behind because they simply do not work. This is not caused by a weapon that is being run in almost every build.

 

I'm all for Support Revenant being a thing as Power Shiro is stale and boring. However, you are not suggesting anything that would change the current status quo for support. For support to be playable in PvP it actually needs to provide a clear benefit in PvP. Ventari himself needs this. Salvation needs this. The weapon we already carry, on the other hand, is fine.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

> @"Dace.8173" said:

> > @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> > > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > > @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> > > > > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > > > Still wondering why of all the weapons that Revenant needs improvement on, people pick the one weapon that doesn't need improvement to keep pushing as the weapon that should get fixed. Those are my thoughts. Staff is a utility weapon. It is the only utility weapon Revenant has. It doesn't need to be anything more than it currently is. We need to find ways to get other weapons improved so that staff isn't having to carry the vast workload that everyone wants it to carry.

> > > > >

> > > > > But sure, let's have another staff needs more gimmicks thread.

> > > >

> > > > I would assume for similar reasons I have, which is that Revenants has no real Support weapon. All legends have a weapon that goes with them. Staff currently was meant for Ventari/Salvation Specialization yet doesn't fit the role since it's the only weapon that isn't equally as useful. Staff was meant to be the support weapon and currently its performance for that doesn't justify it. It's poor at anything else besides the skill 3, and 5.

> > > >

> > > > This Change would make the weapon a good main weapon for support Revenants and would somewhat justify Support Revenant to use Staff and traits associated with staff. And it has synergy with devastation.

> > >

> > > It's a great utility weapon. It's why you see it in so many builds. If it wasn't good at what it does Revenant wouldn't rely on the weapon nearly as much as it currently does. It isn't meant to be a main hand weapon. I think if people were pushing for other weapons to be fixed folks wouldn't need to rely on staff to do so much. However, since the focus is on the staff the other weapons that need to be worked on languish in purgatory.

> >

> > Ok quick question. "Why" is Staff a great Utility Weapon for all other builds? Answer that "Why". Because I mentioned it already. That has nothing to do with Support. Why once again should Support take another sacrifice for every other build role? Support Ventari is already unplayable in SPvP at all, and the simple request that the baseline weapon that was meant for Support Revenant actually get improved to do well what it was originally made to do, and people like you say it shouldn't be improved since two skills on the thing are good for non support roles... That's ridiculous.

>

> Offers you an evade, a gap closer, brief condi cleanse/heal, and blocks. Block is useful to help protect against kiting and the staff is the only weapon Revenant has that is worthwhile carrying for that function. Hammer is far too slow of a weapon to carry just for block and shield is fairly worthless as a weapon overall. The evade is another protection against kiting and it also operates as a gap closer. In the absence of other strong weapon choices, staff becomes the weapon that most builds rely on. Improving staff will not make Ventari playable in PvP. Staff already functions well as a support weapon. The problem is not that it doesn't work as a support weapon but that Ventari doesn't work. Adding an AOE heal to the second attack will mean that it becomes even more standard in Revenant builds. It will not, however, induce people to slot Ventari and Salvation. More to the point, adding an AOE heal and a brief Energy gain will not induce people to play Ventari and Salvation in PvP. Salvation and Ventari are simply not useful enough to use in PvP.

>

> No amount of toying with staff is going to change that since the staff is not the reason why Ventari and Salvation are weak in PvP. Support, as a build type, also does not suffer because staff isn't giving you an AOE heal and Energy gain. We already take staff into PvP and we leave Ventari, Salvation, and support as a build type behind because they simply do not work. This is not caused by a weapon that is being run in almost every build.

>

> I'm all for Support Revenant being a thing as Power Shiro is stale and boring. However, you are not suggesting anything that would change the current status quo for support. For support to be playable in PvP it actually needs to provide a clear benefit in PvP. Ventari himself needs this. Salvation needs this. The weapon we already carry, on the other hand, is fine.

 

While I agree with you that staff (as a whole) functions great as is, I do think it's fair to update the orb mechanic, even if they were just "smart" and travelled to the nearest/lowest health player. No this wouldn't "solve" anything, but on that same note, it wouldn't overbuff it either.

[messiah.1908]

the only problem (semi problem) with staff its the orb. as a healer/support you cant control the healing where when and to whom

 

so i would give little change to orb not to function like other class AA have.

 

each AA chain drop a orb - so 3 orbs and not 2

first and second chain attacks drop a orb which pulses for 2 sec healing around them 180r. 60+0.025*healing power

last chain drop a orb which pulses for 3 sec healing around them 240r. 60+0.075*healing power

each orb can heal each ally once

 

this way more allies get heal

the healing output for an AA is not increase that much

[Dace.8173]

> @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

> > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> > > > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > > > @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> > > > > > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > > > > Still wondering why of all the weapons that Revenant needs improvement on, people pick the one weapon that doesn't need improvement to keep pushing as the weapon that should get fixed. Those are my thoughts. Staff is a utility weapon. It is the only utility weapon Revenant has. It doesn't need to be anything more than it currently is. We need to find ways to get other weapons improved so that staff isn't having to carry the vast workload that everyone wants it to carry.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But sure, let's have another staff needs more gimmicks thread.

> > > > >

> > > > > I would assume for similar reasons I have, which is that Revenants has no real Support weapon. All legends have a weapon that goes with them. Staff currently was meant for Ventari/Salvation Specialization yet doesn't fit the role since it's the only weapon that isn't equally as useful. Staff was meant to be the support weapon and currently its performance for that doesn't justify it. It's poor at anything else besides the skill 3, and 5.

> > > > >

> > > > > This Change would make the weapon a good main weapon for support Revenants and would somewhat justify Support Revenant to use Staff and traits associated with staff. And it has synergy with devastation.

> > > >

> > > > It's a great utility weapon. It's why you see it in so many builds. If it wasn't good at what it does Revenant wouldn't rely on the weapon nearly as much as it currently does. It isn't meant to be a main hand weapon. I think if people were pushing for other weapons to be fixed folks wouldn't need to rely on staff to do so much. However, since the focus is on the staff the other weapons that need to be worked on languish in purgatory.

> > >

> > > Ok quick question. "Why" is Staff a great Utility Weapon for all other builds? Answer that "Why". Because I mentioned it already. That has nothing to do with Support. Why once again should Support take another sacrifice for every other build role? Support Ventari is already unplayable in SPvP at all, and the simple request that the baseline weapon that was meant for Support Revenant actually get improved to do well what it was originally made to do, and people like you say it shouldn't be improved since two skills on the thing are good for non support roles... That's ridiculous.

> >

> > Offers you an evade, a gap closer, brief condi cleanse/heal, and blocks. Block is useful to help protect against kiting and the staff is the only weapon Revenant has that is worthwhile carrying for that function. Hammer is far too slow of a weapon to carry just for block and shield is fairly worthless as a weapon overall. The evade is another protection against kiting and it also operates as a gap closer. In the absence of other strong weapon choices, staff becomes the weapon that most builds rely on. Improving staff will not make Ventari playable in PvP. Staff already functions well as a support weapon. The problem is not that it doesn't work as a support weapon but that Ventari doesn't work. Adding an AOE heal to the second attack will mean that it becomes even more standard in Revenant builds. It will not, however, induce people to slot Ventari and Salvation. More to the point, adding an AOE heal and a brief Energy gain will not induce people to play Ventari and Salvation in PvP. Salvation and Ventari are simply not useful enough to use in PvP.

> >

> > No amount of toying with staff is going to change that since the staff is not the reason why Ventari and Salvation are weak in PvP. Support, as a build type, also does not suffer because staff isn't giving you an AOE heal and Energy gain. We already take staff into PvP and we leave Ventari, Salvation, and support as a build type behind because they simply do not work. This is not caused by a weapon that is being run in almost every build.

> >

> > I'm all for Support Revenant being a thing as Power Shiro is stale and boring. However, you are not suggesting anything that would change the current status quo for support. For support to be playable in PvP it actually needs to provide a clear benefit in PvP. Ventari himself needs this. Salvation needs this. The weapon we already carry, on the other hand, is fine.

>

> While I agree with you that staff (as a whole) functions great as is, I do think it's fair to update the orb mechanic, even if they were just "smart" and travelled to the nearest/lowest health player. No this wouldn't "solve" anything, but on that same note, it wouldn't overbuff it either.

 

If I were to touch the orbs I would toss them, as they are useless anyway, and just buff Renewing Wave a bit more to compensate. Honestly, if they removed the orbs and didn't say anything about it I doubt most folks would even realize they were gone. That's how useless I feel they are.

[Zenith.7301]

> @"Dace.8173" said:

> Still wondering why of all the weapons that Revenant needs improvement on, people pick the one weapon that doesn't need improvement to keep pushing as the weapon that should get fixed. Those are my thoughts. Staff is a utility weapon. It is the only utility weapon Revenant has. It doesn't need to be anything more than it currently is. We need to find ways to get other weapons improved so that staff isn't having to carry the vast workload that everyone wants it to carry.

>

> But sure, let's have another staff needs more gimmicks thread.

 

Because the vast majority of people in this game do not and will not play PvP, and your "utility" weapon you keep referring to has absolutely irrelevant "utility" for the format the vast majority of people in this game play: PvE.

 

Staff 5 is the only thing worth a damn about the weapon in PvE, and the rest can't be used because the energy costs are so outrageous that you can't use the condi cleanse or extra CC from staff 2 because your energy bar is gone and you'll have to swap out of ventari as a support build.

 

Since fights in PvE aren't 20 second affairs given that opponents don't have 15-20k HP, prolonged performance of a task is of interest, which energy costs on the weapon interfere with.

 

Besides, don't really get your whine even if it was in PvP. The staff auto already is meant to do healing, that's what the orbs are there for. It's just a horribly implemented mechanic that doesn't bear out its purpose, so the thread is to suggest improvements to that aspect.

 

Just because it doesn't work doesn't mean we should "toss" them anymore than we would toss main hand sword if it turns precision strike or unrelenting assault are underperforming in their intended goal. It's called tuning.

[Kain Francois.4328]

But I don't want Staff to have its offensive capabilities gutted. I want it to be CC/Defense, like it currently is right now. In fact, for PvE it is one of THE strongest CC weapons in the game! Staff is fine for the most part.

 

The only thing I would change is the autoattack orbs, and maybe give staff a better traited perk in Salvation line. Currently, the orbs are just impractical for GW2's position-heavy, noise-intensive gameplay. Worse of all, even if you do collect the orbs, the bonuses they give are utterly pathetic.

[Dace.8173]

> @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > Still wondering why of all the weapons that Revenant needs improvement on, people pick the one weapon that doesn't need improvement to keep pushing as the weapon that should get fixed. Those are my thoughts. Staff is a utility weapon. It is the only utility weapon Revenant has. It doesn't need to be anything more than it currently is. We need to find ways to get other weapons improved so that staff isn't having to carry the vast workload that everyone wants it to carry.

> >

> > But sure, let's have another staff needs more gimmicks thread.

>

> Because the vast majority of people in this game do not and will not play PvP, and your "utility" weapon you keep referring to has absolutely irrelevant "utility" for the format the vast majority of people in this game play: PvE.

>

> Staff 5 is the only thing worth a kitten about the weapon in PvE, and the rest can't be used because the energy costs are so outrageous that you can't use the condi cleanse or extra CC from staff 2 because your energy bar is gone and you'll have to swap out of ventari as a support build.

>

> Since fights in PvE aren't 20 second affairs given that opponents don't have 15-20k HP, prolonged performance of a task is of interest, which energy costs on the weapon interfere with.

>

> Besides, don't really get your whine even if it was in PvP. The staff auto already is meant to do healing, that's what the orbs are there for. It's just a horribly implemented mechanic that doesn't bear out its purpose, so the thread is to suggest improvements to that aspect.

>

> Just because it doesn't work doesn't mean we should "toss" them anymore than we would toss main hand sword if it turns precision strike or unrelenting assault are underperforming in their intended goal. It's called tuning.

 

The PvE argument doesn't support you. As a matter of fact, the OP started this thread with a discussion of PvP in mind. He makes that very clear

 

>Support Ventari is already unplayable in SPvP at all

 

We are having a PvP discussion because the op wants to have a PvP discussion. I actually never based my points in PvP or PvE. That's an assumption on your part but my argument is the same for both modes. It's also worth noting, the overwhelming majority of these discussions are based in PvP. Most of the people who have been suggesting the change have been suggesting PvP changes. So again, your PvE argument is invalid. As for swapping out of Ventari, kinda the point man. That's the basic playstyle of Revenant. Also, I'm not "whining" about the healing. I state the orbs or useless but I'm not starting thread after thread after thread asking for them to be changed. The orbs are just a bad idea and if you really wanted to improve them you would remove the orbs and transfer their function into Renewing Wave. The orbs only matter if you're in PvP and since you don't care about PvP their function or lack thereof should be irrelevant for you.

 

If people were playing Ventari the same way they played the rest of Revenant the Energy cost issue would vanish as the swapping of Legends is going to give you the Energy you need to use the staff. The only time staff fails in actual play is if you are camping your weapon or camping your Legend. Ventari is a combat medic who goes in with quick burst heals, not long sustained heals. I've actually outlined the how and the why of the staff doing what it's supposed to be doing and is, in fact, working the way they wanted it to work and in sync with Ventari. Just because it's a support build doesn't mean you stop playing the build like it's a Revenant build.

[Zenith.7301]

> @"Dace.8173" said:

> > @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > Still wondering why of all the weapons that Revenant needs improvement on, people pick the one weapon that doesn't need improvement to keep pushing as the weapon that should get fixed. Those are my thoughts. Staff is a utility weapon. It is the only utility weapon Revenant has. It doesn't need to be anything more than it currently is. We need to find ways to get other weapons improved so that staff isn't having to carry the vast workload that everyone wants it to carry.

> > >

> > > But sure, let's have another staff needs more gimmicks thread.

> >

> > Because the vast majority of people in this game do not and will not play PvP, and your "utility" weapon you keep referring to has absolutely irrelevant "utility" for the format the vast majority of people in this game play: PvE.

> >

> > Staff 5 is the only thing worth a kitten about the weapon in PvE, and the rest can't be used because the energy costs are so outrageous that you can't use the condi cleanse or extra CC from staff 2 because your energy bar is gone and you'll have to swap out of ventari as a support build.

> >

> > Since fights in PvE aren't 20 second affairs given that opponents don't have 15-20k HP, prolonged performance of a task is of interest, which energy costs on the weapon interfere with.

> >

> > Besides, don't really get your whine even if it was in PvP. The staff auto already is meant to do healing, that's what the orbs are there for. It's just a horribly implemented mechanic that doesn't bear out its purpose, so the thread is to suggest improvements to that aspect.

> >

> > Just because it doesn't work doesn't mean we should "toss" them anymore than we would toss main hand sword if it turns precision strike or unrelenting assault are underperforming in their intended goal. It's called tuning.

>

> The PvE argument doesn't support you. As a matter of fact, the OP started this thread with a discussion of PvP in mind. He makes that very clear

>

> >Support Ventari is already unplayable in SPvP at all

>

> We are having a PvP discussion because the op wants to have a PvP discussion. I actually never based my points in PvP or PvE. That's an assumption on your part but my argument is the same for both modes. It's also worth noting, the overwhelming majority of these discussions are based in PvP. Most of the people who have been suggesting the change have been suggesting PvP changes. So again, your PvE argument is invalid. As for swapping out of Ventari, kinda the point man. That's the basic playstyle of Revenant. Also, I'm not "whining" about the healing. I state the orbs or useless but I'm not starting thread after thread after thread asking for them to be changed. The orbs are just a bad idea and if you really wanted to improve them you would remove the orbs and transfer their function into Renewing Wave. The orbs only matter if you're in PvP and since you don't care about PvP their function or lack thereof should be irrelevant for you.

>

> If people were playing Ventari the same way they played the rest of Revenant the Energy cost issue would vanish as the swapping of Legends is going to give you the Energy you need to use the staff. The only time staff fails in actual play is if you are camping your weapon or camping your Legend. Ventari is a combat medic who goes in with quick burst heals, not long sustained heals. I've actually outlined the how and the why of the staff doing what it's supposed to be doing and is, in fact, working the way they wanted it to work and in sync with Ventari. Just because it's a support build doesn't mean you stop playing the build like it's a Revenant build.

 

Except that's not remotely true, Ventari is king of sustained healing only rivaled by auramancer ele. And the otther legends offer absolutely nothing in terms of support to complement the healer role of ventari, which is why swapping out of it is a problem to begin with, because while Shiro is complemented by Glint or Jalis, you can't say the same for Ventari.

 

That's why condi rev received Kalla so well, because just like Ventari, Mallyx doesn't have a complementary legend to make effective swapping for sustained performance.

 

Swapping isn't how revenant is meant to be played. The swapping is there to choose your utility. The fact that our energy management has been badly designed around swapping instead of having generation means either on our weaponskills or traits/passives to then spend on utility, we have to resort to the legend swap for energy replenishment.

 

This is the symptom of a class that has a way worse version of thief's inititative system, where thieves only use initiative on weaponskills, while revenant uses energy on weaponskills, utilities, and heals with almost no traits like the thief has to improve resource generation.

[Dace.8173]

> @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > > > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > > Still wondering why of all the weapons that Revenant needs improvement on, people pick the one weapon that doesn't need improvement to keep pushing as the weapon that should get fixed. Those are my thoughts. Staff is a utility weapon. It is the only utility weapon Revenant has. It doesn't need to be anything more than it currently is. We need to find ways to get other weapons improved so that staff isn't having to carry the vast workload that everyone wants it to carry.

> > > >

> > > > But sure, let's have another staff needs more gimmicks thread.

> > >

> > > Because the vast majority of people in this game do not and will not play PvP, and your "utility" weapon you keep referring to has absolutely irrelevant "utility" for the format the vast majority of people in this game play: PvE.

> > >

> > > Staff 5 is the only thing worth a kitten about the weapon in PvE, and the rest can't be used because the energy costs are so outrageous that you can't use the condi cleanse or extra CC from staff 2 because your energy bar is gone and you'll have to swap out of ventari as a support build.

> > >

> > > Since fights in PvE aren't 20 second affairs given that opponents don't have 15-20k HP, prolonged performance of a task is of interest, which energy costs on the weapon interfere with.

> > >

> > > Besides, don't really get your whine even if it was in PvP. The staff auto already is meant to do healing, that's what the orbs are there for. It's just a horribly implemented mechanic that doesn't bear out its purpose, so the thread is to suggest improvements to that aspect.

> > >

> > > Just because it doesn't work doesn't mean we should "toss" them anymore than we would toss main hand sword if it turns precision strike or unrelenting assault are underperforming in their intended goal. It's called tuning.

> >

> > The PvE argument doesn't support you. As a matter of fact, the OP started this thread with a discussion of PvP in mind. He makes that very clear

> >

> > >Support Ventari is already unplayable in SPvP at all

> >

> > We are having a PvP discussion because the op wants to have a PvP discussion. I actually never based my points in PvP or PvE. That's an assumption on your part but my argument is the same for both modes. It's also worth noting, the overwhelming majority of these discussions are based in PvP. Most of the people who have been suggesting the change have been suggesting PvP changes. So again, your PvE argument is invalid. As for swapping out of Ventari, kinda the point man. That's the basic playstyle of Revenant. Also, I'm not "whining" about the healing. I state the orbs or useless but I'm not starting thread after thread after thread asking for them to be changed. The orbs are just a bad idea and if you really wanted to improve them you would remove the orbs and transfer their function into Renewing Wave. The orbs only matter if you're in PvP and since you don't care about PvP their function or lack thereof should be irrelevant for you.

> >

> > If people were playing Ventari the same way they played the rest of Revenant the Energy cost issue would vanish as the swapping of Legends is going to give you the Energy you need to use the staff. The only time staff fails in actual play is if you are camping your weapon or camping your Legend. Ventari is a combat medic who goes in with quick burst heals, not long sustained heals. I've actually outlined the how and the why of the staff doing what it's supposed to be doing and is, in fact, working the way they wanted it to work and in sync with Ventari. Just because it's a support build doesn't mean you stop playing the build like it's a Revenant build.

>

> Except that's not remotely true, Ventari is king of sustained healing only rivaled by auramancer ele. And the otther legends offer absolutely nothing in terms of support to complement the healer role of ventari, which is why swapping out of it is a problem to begin with, because while Shiro is complemented by Glint or Jalis, you can't say the same for Ventari.

>

> That's why condi rev received Kalla so well, because just like Ventari, Mallyx doesn't have a complementary legend to make effective swapping for sustained performance.

>

> Swapping isn't how revenant is meant to be played. The swapping is there to choose your utility. The fact that our energy management has been badly designed around swapping instead of having generation means either on our weaponskills or traits/passives to then spend on utility, we have to resort to the legend swap for energy replenishment.

>

> This is the symptom of a class that has a way worse version of thief's inititative system, where thieves only use initiative on weaponskills, while revenant uses energy on weaponskills, utilities, and heals with almost no traits like the thief has to improve resource generation.

 

Swapping is how it's meant to be played. If Revenant was meant to camp you would have more Energy or things would cost less Energy, the fact that the swap refills your Energy makes it clear what you need to do to get more of it. You, of course, can camp a Legend but that requires you to manage your Energy accordingly. You'll get your best performance from the swap, not camping.

 

Can Ventari do sustained heal? Sure. But Glint can also do sustained boon share. Shiro can do sustained DPS. Mallyx and Kalla can do sustained condition damage. They can all be played in a sustained fashion. However, if you do that then you only have yourself to blame for Energy problems since sustained Legend is not the playstyle they designed for Revenant. While there needs to be better synergy between the Legends themselves Ventari was set up to be a combat medic, one part healer and one part DPS/Condi/Tank.

 

Trying to play it any other way is going to net you problems. Folks who play Revenant with Legend swap in mind have less to complain about than folks who try to camp a Legend. They want you to swap and they built the profession to encourage that.