Nerf Full Counter

[Luna.6203]

Edit: broken link (deleted)

[Endorphin.9147]

Do people still not know how to weapon stow or dodge?

[idolin.2831]

> @"Endorphin.9147" said:

> Do people still not know how to weapon stow or dodge?

 

And keeping track of FC's CD too - sometimes it's impossible to avoid proc'ing FC by stowing or dodging.

[Tsume.3490]

All right.

I've been playing warrior in pvp and against it quite a lot a few seasons back and you can outplay it and easily avoid FC. It had one nerf and that was enough IMO.

 

- Dodging - yes you can dodge it! And don't say you can't dodge because you don't have the endurance. Learn to manage it when playing against it. DOn't just dodge for lols, what are you, bronze? FC takes as long to recharge as base endurance for any character.

- Stowing or just stop attacking it. You can easily tell when to skill gonna pop up, especially if you're a quick attacker in the vicinity of the SP.

- other CC (blind works well)

 

If you have problems as mesmer with your clones, don't spam clones? Destroy them when SP is closing in or as a ranger, put pet on passive. You both can go invisible and just break out of the combat.

 

Yes, FC is strong, but other classes have strong skills as well. Like mesmers can easily one combo everyone every 15 or so seconds if player doesn't pay attention, and somehow FC is now too strong.

 

Play with SP and against it. Learn its weakness and you can outplay it, especially if a class you're playing has nice mobility (e.g. mesmers, eles, thieves).

[siopao.7436]

Full counter has the very obvious counterplay of -not hitting it-. Everyone can do it. And please don't get started on mesmer clones/phantasms or ranger pet. Both of those classes already have the tools to outplay a warrior and you want more?

 

For me the major reason FC is powerful is coupled with the defense line, FC procs adrenal health without hitting anything helping the warr to sustain better on mistakes you make. If this skill would get looked at, I'd expect it to get the same treatment the rest of the burst skills got and get benefits from traits when it actually hits. And yes, the more people fighting the warr, the easier it is to proc.

[brunoam.7391]

''I dont know how to play, nerf FC!!!!''

This is a joke???? Would you rather have nerf skills instead of learning to play?

L O L

[ilmi.5369]

All along new nerf requests pop up about topics that have already been widely discussed in this forum. It has all been said, just dig up the old posts. FC was already nerfed in the past and is far away from being a game breaker mechanic. DE and Mesmers can oneshot from stealth, Holo (among other stuff) has an aoe knockdown with high range, Necro can bring a whole team to down state in 5secs and so on. If you are unaware you get hit but that's part of the game.

[ezd.6359]

> @"Tsume.3490" said:

> If you have problems as mesmer with your clones, don't spam clones? Destroy them when SP is closing in or as a ranger, put pet on passive. You both can go invisible and > just break out of the combat.

 

Don't spam clones as mesmer? Destroy phantoms? Did you ever play mesmer? You just say "dont use profession main mechanic". Seriously?

[zoopop.5630]

full counter fine.

 

[Luna.6203]

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[Tsume.3490]

> @"ezd.6359" said:

> > @"Tsume.3490" said:

> > If you have problems as mesmer with your clones, don't spam clones? Destroy them when SP is closing in or as a ranger, put pet on passive. You both can go invisible and > just break out of the combat.

>

> Don't spam clones as mesmer? Destroy phantoms? Did you ever play mesmer? You just say "dont use profession main mechanic". Seriously?

 

Well, I only suggested how to avoid external AI (such as clones, pets) to proc FC. Sometimes sacrifices has to be made.

I ain't going on forums and open topics about how mesmers are op and can one combo kill you without having any time to react at all and to nerf certain skill(s). I for one, develop a tactics on how to beat such mechanics. I play against mesmers and learn from my mistakes and what to look for. Same should go for you. Learn how to play against SP and you'll be fine!

 

FC is fine. One nerf was needed but now sits in a fine position. As I said before, played AS and VERSUS SP. Didn't have much problems with full counter. Learn and adapt mate.

 

edit: You are asking to nerf and possibly make it useless enough to remove it altogether from the game and then spell breaker elite spec is no more. Would you be fine with nerfing mesmer skillls to spawn a clone every 20 seconds? That's what I thought.

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

> @"Luna.6203" said:

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Best post yet. If the devs are reading this, please don't listen to the players asking for a Full Counter nerf. It's literally all we have.

[Edge.8724]

> @"kipthelip.5802" said:

> Been calling for a real nerf to this ability for a long time. It does too many things and it hits too hard. If you removed it probably 75% of Warriors would disappear from pvp that shows you how good it is. Nerf it and if Warriors need buffs elsewhere fine. But it does way too much for a no skill ability with a low cooldown.

 

You see, what you are asking here is to completely remove the Spellbreaker elite specialisation from the game. Full Counter IS the Specialisation's mechanics, like Mirage's Cloak. I don't know about, but I am a Warrior / Spellbreaker main and when I fight another Spellbreaker, I probably dodge 90% of the time he's activating it. You just don't know how to deal with that and then you want to make every people that works hard against classes that teleport, blink, dances everywhere like me pay for your lack of effort.

By the way Full Counter was heavily nerfed in pvp (Less dammage than before and a longer cooldown). Oh, also not EVERY warrior uses the Discipline Trait line, the trait that reduces cooldown on Burst skills, so for me it's a 12 seconds cooldown, not 10.

 

You know what? ok. Nerf it to the ground and make this a 20 seconds cooldown. Go ahead. But give me my 3 bars of adrenaline backs then.

[Edge.8724]

> @"Virelion.4128" said:

 

> You cannot condi burst due to amount of resistance.

 

The maximum amount of resistance I ever got (without boon duration) was 17 seconds. And that is if I take EVERYTHING that has the word "Resistance" in my build, which will renders me extremely inneffective in any combat situation. I will be at 17 seconds of resistance using all these skills, cool, but there is at least 2 minute or even more to wait before I can get more. This and the fact that every utility skills and healing skills will be on cooldown. Also, Resistance can be stripped by any boon stripping mechanics.

 

Complaining about Resistance today is just useless.

 

[ezd.6359]

> @"Tsume.3490" said:

> > @"ezd.6359" said:

> > > @"Tsume.3490" said:

> > > If you have problems as mesmer with your clones, don't spam clones? Destroy them when SP is closing in or as a ranger, put pet on passive. You both can go invisible and > just break out of the combat.

> >

> > Don't spam clones as mesmer? Destroy phantoms? Did you ever play mesmer? You just say "dont use profession main mechanic". Seriously?

>

> Well, I only suggested how to avoid external AI (such as clones, pets) to proc FC. Sometimes sacrifices has to be made.

> I ain't going on forums and open topics about how mesmers are op and can one combo kill you without having any time to react at all and to nerf certain skill(s). I for one, develop a tactics on how to beat such mechanics. I play against mesmers and learn from my mistakes and what to look for. Same should go for you. Learn how to play against SP and you'll be fine!

>

> FC is fine. One nerf was needed but now sits in a fine position. As I said before, played AS and VERSUS SP. Didn't have much problems with full counter. Learn and adapt mate.

>

> edit: You are asking to nerf and possibly make it useless enough to remove it altogether from the game and then spell breaker elite spec is no more. Would you be fine with nerfing mesmer skillls to spawn a clone every 20 seconds? That's what I thought.

 

Once again - you did not play mesmer. Mesmers burst is easy predictable. Also:

1) You can not stop phantasms (white clones with personal skills). They do damage from mesmer's weapons. If you say nerf FC=remove specialization, then don't use phantasms = remove half of mesmers weapons abilities and some utilities.

2) "Destroy clones" is actually "hit" enemy.

 

When i say "nerf" i don't say "remove". Just need counterplay for mesmers and others who can not stop abilities like rangers pets. Let me daze warriors before my phantasm used its skill then i will be fine, i will sacrifice my F3 and may be take mantra with daze. Also, i think it should not be unblockable and not AOE, only those who actually hit warrior.

[Virelion.4128]

> @"Edge.8724" said:

> > @"Virelion.4128" said:

>

> > You cannot condi burst due to amount of resistance.

>

> The maximum amount of resistance I ever got (without boon duration) was 17 seconds. And that is if I take EVERYTHING that has the word "Resistance" in my build, which will renders me extremely inneffective in any combat situation. I will be at 17 seconds of resistance using all these skills, cool, but there is at least 2 minute or even more to wait before I can get more. This and the fact that every utility skills and healing skills will be on cooldown. Also, Resistance can be stripped by any boon stripping mechanics.

>

> Complaining about Resistance today is just useless.

>

 

First of all, 17 sec is a lot considering full damage immunity for one type of damage. Probably fine in terms of how much you had to sacrifice.

 

Boon strip was severly nerfed recently at least for necro which was the strongest option.

 

Finally resistance is not an issue now due to meta which is completly dominated by power. Right now only scourge and mesmer are able to build for condi, scourge just to be semi effective and mirage due to superior defences combined with confusion.

[Tsume.3490]

> @"ezd.6359" said:

> > @"Tsume.3490" said:

> > > @"ezd.6359" said:

> > > > @"Tsume.3490" said:

> > > > If you have problems as mesmer with your clones, don't spam clones? Destroy them when SP is closing in or as a ranger, put pet on passive. You both can go invisible and > just break out of the combat.

> > >

> > > Don't spam clones as mesmer? Destroy phantoms? Did you ever play mesmer? You just say "dont use profession main mechanic". Seriously?

> >

> > Well, I only suggested how to avoid external AI (such as clones, pets) to proc FC. Sometimes sacrifices has to be made.

> > I ain't going on forums and open topics about how mesmers are op and can one combo kill you without having any time to react at all and to nerf certain skill(s). I for one, develop a tactics on how to beat such mechanics. I play against mesmers and learn from my mistakes and what to look for. Same should go for you. Learn how to play against SP and you'll be fine!

> >

> > FC is fine. One nerf was needed but now sits in a fine position. As I said before, played AS and VERSUS SP. Didn't have much problems with full counter. Learn and adapt mate.

> >

> > edit: You are asking to nerf and possibly make it useless enough to remove it altogether from the game and then spell breaker elite spec is no more. Would you be fine with nerfing mesmer skillls to spawn a clone every 20 seconds? That's what I thought.

>

> Once again - you did not play mesmer. Mesmers burst is easy predictable.

 

So is FC. Just count from 10 down :D I am sure warrior will hit FC as soon as possible so.. And it is only really useful skill on spell breaker, really. Warriors can't burst as much as mesmers, they have less mobility,..

 

> @"ezd.6359" said:

> When i say "nerf" i don't say "remove". Just need counterplay for mesmers and others who can not stop abilities like rangers pets. Let me daze warriors before my phantasm used its skill then i will be fine, i will sacrifice my F3 and may be take mantra with daze. Also, i think it should not be unblockable and not AOE, only those who actually hit warrior.

 

FC was nerfed quite a lot in past. It was too strong even I admit. But nerfing it even more will render it useless. That's the only thing spell breaker has.

Also not to mention that warriors sacrificed one full bar of adrenaline for elite spec. That is quite a lot. If FC would be nerfed, I would expect one more adrenaline bar.

[jportell.2197]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > @"Luna.6203" said:

> > ..................................................

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> >

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> Best post yet. If the devs are reading this, please don't listen to the players asking for a Full Counter nerf. It's literally all we have.

 

Literally the same thing could be said with Mirages and Mirage cloak. Like for real, if mirage cloak gets nerfed. The spec as a whole should be deleted.

[Shala.8352]

i don't think full counter should be changed. I'd rather nerf adrenal health wich is what is giving warrior the superiority in this game. Or maybe make full counter only not proc adrenal health.

[Harvey.7820]

Fullcounter is only strong while you're in Gold or low Plat. As you climb higher and higher people become more and more competent at outplaying it.

[Luna.6203]

> @"jportell.2197" said:

> > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > @"Luna.6203" said:

> > > ..................................................

> > > 

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Best post yet. If the devs are reading this, please don't listen to the players asking for a Full Counter nerf. It's literally all we have.

>

> Literally the same thing could be said with Mirages and Mirage cloak. Like for real, if mirage cloak gets nerfed. The spec as a whole should be deleted.

 

 

Do not try to compare ridiculously OP mesmer with warrior. Thanks.

 

 

> @"Shala.8352" said:

> i don't think full counter should be changed. I'd rather nerf adrenal health wich is what is giving warrior the superiority in this game. Or maybe make full counter only not proc adrenal health.

 

Not-procing adrenal heal from full counter doesn't make sense. It's burst skill and only 1-bar (you need to stack 3).

EDIT: adrenal heal was already nerfed. whole defence was nerfed a lot that's why a lot of warriors using strength/discipline/spellbreaker. Problem is warrior without propper sustain is useless s**t. Thats why i keep defence trait line.

 

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I can tell you about 50% deadeyes kill them self within 3 seconds with just shield reflect. So i know what kind of people suggesting this nerfs. But i don't want to be abusive so will not say it loudly.

 

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EDIT2:

**Like seriously think about it:**

Complaining about ability that **YOU trigger**.

And even if you trigger it **you can still DODGE it**.

[Crinn.7864]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > @"Luna.6203" said:

> > ..................................................

> > 

> >

> >

> >

>

> Best post yet. If the devs are reading this, please don't listen to the players asking for a Full Counter nerf. It's literally all we have.

 

Literally all you have is literally overpowered. Full Counter could have it's damage reduced by 90% and SB would still be the best offnoder in the game.

[Luna.6203]

sure thing...

 

> @"ezd.6359" said:

> It should be interruptable by CC skills

 

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> It should be a 25-20 sec cd.

 

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> Full Counter could have it's damage reduced by 90%

 

I think it's pretty reasonable nerf. GJ!

 

What else would you nerf ? Please continue with suggestions... go on... Its really fun.

[viquing.8254]

> @"Outsider.6051" said:

> Full counter has the very obvious counterplay of -not hitting it-.

While I don't have much issues with full counter, when I read this argument, I can't forget that It was the same story about on death clones traits who were much more less efficient :3 .

 

Same about thoses who said just dodge it :

You have 2 dodge. You need to evade F1,F2, bullcharge, and some other skills who hit 3-4k +. Hopefully every metabuild have other temporisation tools but the "just dodge" argument, not only talking about war but about, everymeta build is a bit odd. (and concerning wars, there are more spec which when you evade the burst you are safe than them.)

 

That said it's right that war without FC will no longer be viable. On another side, is being viable only due to 1 skill a good thing ?

 

 

[Luna.6203]

> @"viquing.8254" said:

> Same about thoses who said just dodge it :

> You have 2 dodge. You need to evade F1,F2, bullcharge, and some other skills who hit 3-4k +.

 

Well yeah 2 dodges only so warrior can actually hit you with one from three mentioned skills. It should be nerfed i thing warriors should not be able to hit you at all.

 

Oh wait! I just realized from your avatar image that you are mesmer right ? In that case don't worry. You have much more ways to get mirage cloak. Come on its only about two dodges. + Most of warrior abilities include FC are melee. You can outrun/kite warrior. Invisibility and blind should help as well.

 

/sarcasm off

 

> @"viquing.8254" said:

> That said it's right that war without FC will no longer be viable. On another side, is being viable only due to 1 skill a good thing ?

 

Well it depends on build.

 

But yea defense-discipline-spellbreaker is about counter a lot. Some warriors running strenght/discipline/spellbreaker in that case instead of revenge counter you running magebane tether. Or u can focus on removing boons and change slow counter to loss aversion.

 

You can also run core warrior and not use FC at all.

 

Exept FC whole spellbreaker bonuses are pretty poor, dagger is poor. its pitty.

 

I would gladly play offensive warr... **Just make berserker viable and i'll drop spellbreaker and FC willingly.**