Sigils and runes during Raids

[Nephalem.8921]

> @"RaidsAreEasyAF.8652" said:

> > @"Nephalem.8921" said:

> > Most builds are Soulbeast and Weaver if my math isn't completely off.

> > Its 2750/2625 * 1.05 = 1.1

> > Means threshold is 1875 with the excluded 50% base ciritcal damage. How did you get your scholar uptime values? Am i missing something?

>

> Probably wasnt clear on that, but the values are compared to the new scholar rune.

> Basically if you dont have any food/runes/traits that give you ferocity the break even point is 75% uptime. If you do the Math with several classes and add the ferocity they get from traits food and stuff like that the break even point goes down to 65%. Basically if your group sucks with healing or you are facetanking every mechanic, you are still getting buffed with the new rune. The change rewards bad gameplay while (slightly) punishing good groups.

> I was only adding to your math since you did it under the assumption of 100% scholar uptime.

 

I get it now. Forgot something unnecessary like base damage. Well yeah even the worst pug groups had scholar uptimes above 80% so its just a nerf to all power builds and especially high ferocity builds like fresh air weaver.

But who knows. Maybe they will destroy sigil of force and change it to ferocity aswell.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

I dont use it on druid and still hit 60+% boon duration

[Morte de Angelis.7986]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> I dont use it on druid and still hit 60+% boon duration

 

Thats generally cause Druid run Harriers, Harrier being a three stat combo has more concentration on the gear while Commander is a 4-stat

[Artemis Thuras.8795]

> @"Nephalem.8921" said:

> > @"Eramonster.2718" said:

> > Scholar damage boost is on power (condi was never in the equation, unless stated like Sigil of Bursting).

> >

> > New scholar rune : **+125 ferocity = 8%** (8.33% to be exact), plus additional 5% while HP above 90%. (Previously 10% dmg while HP above 90%). 13% in total sounds like a buff to me, and more viable too since players still retains 8% while HP below the threshold.

>

> It's not that simple. You have to look at the increase you gain over your current critical damage to get damage gained by that ferocity, different for each build.

> Then you have to multiply the values instead of adding them since the 5% damage increases the critical damage aswell.

 

if you're only doing a rough estimation, the number crunching that came up with a friend, is take the % critical damage gain, and divide by 2 (assuming 100% crit chance). It's not exact, but it gives a decent estimate that doesn't require number crunching for every build.

Now considering a dev suggested 125 fero was 3-4% dmg, depending on situation - it seems anet has come to a similar conclusion. ( I'll link the comment when i find it again)

 

So new scholar is going to give ~ 9% > 90%hp, and ~4% below 90% hp, as opposed to 10% & 0%. So for benchmarks/golem tests - it's a nerf. However in most* "real"** situations it's likely to end up being a buff.

 

*most situations where dps is going to make an ounce of difference

** as real as video games get.

 

edit:

This is the thread with the dev comment about estimated effect on dps from ferocity. Dev post is not far down the first page.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/59773/runes-and-sigils-rework-at-11-13/p1

[plushiesoda.8150]

Deleted in protest of anet leaving support ticket #7495730 without answer since October 10th 2019. It's sad how if this were a money-related issue you'd have answered within a couple of hours. At this point I'm not even mad, but disappointed by the mediocrity displayed by your community managers.

[Nephalem.8921]

> @"Artemis Thuras.8795" said:

> > @"Nephalem.8921" said:

> > > @"Eramonster.2718" said:

> > > Scholar damage boost is on power (condi was never in the equation, unless stated like Sigil of Bursting).

> > >

> > > New scholar rune : **+125 ferocity = 8%** (8.33% to be exact), plus additional 5% while HP above 90%. (Previously 10% dmg while HP above 90%). 13% in total sounds like a buff to me, and more viable too since players still retains 8% while HP below the threshold.

> >

> > It's not that simple. You have to look at the increase you gain over your current critical damage to get damage gained by that ferocity, different for each build.

> > Then you have to multiply the values instead of adding them since the 5% damage increases the critical damage aswell.

>

> if you're only doing a rough estimation, the number crunching that came up with a friend, is take the % critical damage gain, and divide by 2 (assuming 100% crit chance). It's not exact, but it gives a decent estimate that doesn't require number crunching for every build.

> Now considering a dev suggested 125 fero was 3-4% dmg, depending on situation - it seems anet has come to a similar conclusion. ( I'll link the comment when i find it again)

>

> So new scholar is going to give ~ 9% > 90%hp, and ~4% below 90% hp, as opposed to 10% & 0%. So for benchmarks/golem tests - it's a nerf. However in most* "real"** situations it's likely to end up being a buff.

>

> *most situations where dps is going to make an ounce of difference

> ** as real as video games get.

 

Yes i did that and its a massive nerf in almost all situations. Both combined are just 8.4% for Holo with almost no ferocity bonus from traits. Scholar uptime above 90% was normal on most bosses. Sometimes even 100%.

 

Its just a 7.9% damage increase for fresh air weaver while attuned to air. Its just a straight rune nerf.

 

 

 

[Morte de Angelis.7986]

> @"plushiesoda.8150" said:

> people: concentration sigil nerf??? yay!!! chrono nerf!!! yay!!!!!!

> reality: concentration sigil nerf?? /gg firebrand+rev

 

Firebrand could provide more then 100% quickness anyway. Its just a matter of taking conc food over burn duration (at least thats what I did) and you should be fine and thats assuming you're a Quickness FB and not a support FB which has ~74% quickness with Harriers without food or buffs.

[RaidsAreEasyAF.8652]

> @"Nephalem.8921" said:

> I get it now. Forgot something unnecessary like base damage. Well yeah even the worst pug groups had scholar uptimes above 80% so its just a nerf to all power builds and especially high ferocity builds like fresh air weaver.

> But who knows. Maybe they will destroy sigil of force and change it to ferocity aswell.

 

Nah, gotta bring it in line with Concentration and Malice and buff it to 10%. /s

[Knox.8962]

> @"RaidsAreEasyAF.8652" said:

> > @"Nephalem.8921" said:

> > I get it now. Forgot something unnecessary like base damage. Well yeah even the worst pug groups had scholar uptimes above 80% so its just a nerf to all power builds and especially high ferocity builds like fresh air weaver.

> > But who knows. Maybe they will destroy sigil of force and change it to ferocity aswell.

>

> Nah, gotta bring it in line with Concentration and Malice and buff it to 10%. /s

 

5% damage is basically 150 power in full dps gear and roughly 200 power in raid buffs. That's pretty much on par with the malice sigil already. Perhaps they'll make it a 4% boost to keep things aligned.

[ArthurDent.9538]

What this mostly does is actually indirectly buff chrono by heavily nerfing the only things that are sort of competitive with it, offensive alacrity renegade and quickness firebrand builds. These builds use sigil of concentration to inflate their boon duration while still being able to run mostly offensive gear everywhere else. Now they can't won't be able to get nearly as much boon duration without going heavily into gear with concentration stats, at which point they lose their superior personal dps which is the only thing they have going for them over chrono. GG anet, but we will see.

[RaidsAreEasyAF.8652]

> @"Knox.8962" said:

> 5% damage is basically 150 power in full dps gear and roughly 200 power in raid buffs. That's pretty much on par with the malice sigil already. Perhaps they'll make it a 4% >boost to keep things aligned.

 

Idk. if you missed the /s or just wanted to explain thing, but yeah. Buffing Force Sigil would be ridiculous.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> What this mostly does is actually indirectly buff chrono by heavily nerfing the only things that are sort of competitive with it, offensive alacrity renegade and quickness firebrand builds. These builds use sigil of concentration to inflate their boon duration while still being able to run mostly offensive gear everywhere else. Now they can't won't be able to get nearly as much boon duration without going heavily into gear with concentration stats, at which point they lose their superior personal dps which is the only thing they have going for them over chrono. GG anet, but we will see.

 

We could have a herald camping dragon stance and facet of nature to replace it

[Zunki.3916]

At around 9% total dmg done by burning and 250% critdmg, rune of the flame legion outclasses scholar, without the 90%hp restriction. This is the case for sword power weaver.

[Henry.5713]

The Cocentration sigil "nerf" certainly affected some specs more than others but it hardly killed Firebrands or Renegades. The former doesn't require above 80% boon duration to provide perma Quickness (even if that may be a little less forgiving) while the latter is able to gear heavily into Harrier or Giver in combination with Water runes to cover the lost duration.

 

My actual gripe with these changes is the even further reduced variety in useful supportive rune sets or sigils. Monk is all there is with very few exception. The buff pretty much covers for the Healing Power you lost on some of the min-maxed Druid builds while being a straight up 10% buff to those who already ran a full Harrier set to begin with while Altruism runes are pretty much dead having lost their Fury.

Concentration sigil is more of a must-have than ever now as most Runes had their Boon Duration nerfed and even more so the removal of supposedly unreliable "on swap" trigger of said sigil which kept many from using them. They simply continues to be too efficient as far as min-maxing boons in combination with healing is concerned. 10% Boon Duration equals 150 Concentration stats which aren't easy to min-max as they don't come as the main stat on any gear as well as the fact that you lose out on 10%+-17% Outgoing Healing each if you replace any part of the Delicious Rice Ball + Bountiful Maintenance Oil combo.