Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted November 14, 2018 Author Share Posted November 14, 2018 > @"eldrjth.7384" said: > So if we get lucent mote at a rate of x4 as someone stated earlier from using Silver fed instead of copper for salvaging gear wouldnt it mean it would always better to use silver fed for gear salvaging now? since the price of 1 lucent mote is close to the cost of using the silver fed 1 time. The phrasing is potentially misleading. In a theoretical & extreme case of getting 1 motes per 100 weapons with Copper-Fed and thus 4 motes from 100 weapons using Silver-Fed, it wouldn't be worth it: you'd spend 57 silver more and receive less than 2 silver worth of additional motes. As it turns out those, the image posted by @"Wanze.8410" answers the question: * Copper-Fed: 209 motes & 6 symbols per 1000 weapons * Silver-Fed: 796 motes & 12 symbols **Values, assuming lower cost charms or symbols** * Copper-Fed: 30 silver in costs. 125 silver worth of motes. 210 silver worth of low-cost symbols. That nets out to 295 silver extracted. * Silver-Fed: 600 silver in costs. 477 silver worth of motes. 420 silver worth of low-cost symbols. Net value of 297 silver extracted. In that scenario, it wouldn't matter which one you use. **Values assuming the most valuable, symbol of control** (the one shown in the image): * Copper-Fed: 30 silver in costs. 125 silver worth of motes. 1200 silver worth of high-cost symbols. That nets out to 1295 silver extracted. * Silver-Fed: 600 silver in costs. 477 silver worth of motes. 2400 silver worth of high-cost symbols. Net value of 2277 silver extracted. **** I find it a little curious that in salvaging 1k weapons, @"Wanze.8410" only got one type of symbol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanze.8410 Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @"eldrjth.7384" said: > > So if we get lucent mote at a rate of x4 as someone stated earlier from using Silver fed instead of copper for salvaging gear wouldnt it mean it would always better to use silver fed for gear salvaging now? since the price of 1 lucent mote is close to the cost of using the silver fed 1 time. > > The phrasing is potentially misleading. In a theoretical & extreme case of getting 1 motes per 100 weapons with Copper-Fed and thus 4 motes from 100 weapons using Silver-Fed, it wouldn't be worth it: you'd spend 57 silver more and receive less than 2 silver worth of additional motes. > > As it turns out those, the image posted by @"Wanze.8410" answers the question: > * Copper-Fed: 209 motes & 6 symbols per 1000 weapons > * Silver-Fed: 796 motes & 12 symbols > > **Values, assuming lower cost charms or symbols** > > * Copper-Fed: 30 silver in costs. 125 silver worth of motes. 210 silver worth of low-cost symbols. That nets out to 295 silver extracted. > * Silver-Fed: 600 silver in costs. 477 silver worth of motes. 420 silver worth of low-cost symbols. Net value of 297 silver extracted. > > In that scenario, it wouldn't matter which one you use. > > **Values assuming the most valuable, symbol of control** (the one shown in the image): > > * Copper-Fed: 30 silver in costs. 125 silver worth of motes. 1200 silver worth of high-cost symbols. That nets out to 1295 silver extracted. > * Silver-Fed: 600 silver in costs. 477 silver worth of motes. 2400 silver worth of high-cost symbols. Net value of 2277 silver extracted. > > **** > I find it a little curious that in salvaging 1k weapons, @"Wanze.8410" only got one type of symbol. I specifically went for control symbols (due to their high value) and greens which had the minor hydromancy sigil slotted, thats why i got only that symbol. Thinking about it, I am also not 100% sure that my numbers on dropped lucent motes (4 times more with silver-fed) are correct due to the constant forced logouts and rollbacks yesterday after the patch when i done my testing. I salvaged the first 1k with copper-fed, then moved my salvage results to the bank and went on with the 1k sample with silver-fed. Its possible that I got logged out and rolled back a bit during that process and some of the lucent motes i got with the copper fed and thought to be in my bank being left in my bag without me knowing it when I started the silver-fed sample. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted November 14, 2018 Author Share Posted November 14, 2018 > @"Wanze.8410" said: > I specifically went for control symbols (due to their high value) and greens which had the minor hydromancy sigil slotted, thats why i got only that symbol. Ah, that makes sense. I figured you had done something sneaky (and profitable). Usually you mention that in your posts. Glad it was deliberate & not some sort of weird coincidence we'd have to explain. > > Thinking about it, I am also not 100% sure that my numbers on dropped lucent motes (4 times more with silver-fed) are correct due to the constant forced logouts and rollbacks yesterday after the patch when i done my testing. Ah. Ok, that makes sense. Thanks for the caveat. I'm sure someone (perhaps me?) will go on a big salvaging streak with enough gear to produce some useful results. 4x more is plausible, by comparing the _stated_ 20% chance of upgrade recovery for copper-fed with the 80% for silver-fed. But... well, those stated numbers have always seems less than reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 This is a bit of an obvious question, but to get any chance of recovering any of the new mats from unid gear I'd have to id it first, correct . . ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanze.8410 Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 > @"Gop.8713" said: > This is a bit of an obvious question, but to get any chance of recovering any of the new mats from unid gear I'd have to id it first, correct . . ? yes. and i doubt that salvaging them directly has ever been the most profitable option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 > @"Wanze.8410" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > This is a bit of an obvious question, but to get any chance of recovering any of the new mats from unid gear I'd have to id it first, correct . . ? > > yes. and i doubt that salvaging them directly has ever been the most profitable option > Damnably convenient though :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanze.8410 Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 > @"Gop.8713" said: > > @"Wanze.8410" said: > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > This is a bit of an obvious question, but to get any chance of recovering any of the new mats from unid gear I'd have to id it first, correct . . ? > > > > yes. and i doubt that salvaging them directly has ever been the most profitable option > > > > Damnably convenient though :) > listing them on the tp isnt too much work and should nearly double your profit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 > @"Wanze.8410" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > @"Wanze.8410" said: > > > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > > > This is a bit of an obvious question, but to get any chance of recovering any of the new mats from unid gear I'd have to id it first, correct . . ? > > > > > > yes. and i doubt that salvaging them directly has ever been the most profitable option > > > > > > > Damnably convenient though :) > > > > listing them on the tp isnt too much work and should nearly double your profit Oh I could never do that, it skips the fun bit ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanze.8410 Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @"Wanze.8410" said: > > I specifically went for control symbols (due to their high value) and greens which had the minor hydromancy sigil slotted, thats why i got only that symbol. > Ah, that makes sense. I figured you had done something sneaky (and profitable). Usually you mention that in your posts. Glad it was deliberate & not some sort of weird coincidence we'd have to explain. > > > > > Thinking about it, I am also not 100% sure that my numbers on dropped lucent motes (4 times more with silver-fed) are correct due to the constant forced logouts and rollbacks yesterday after the patch when i done my testing. > Ah. Ok, that makes sense. Thanks for the caveat. > I'm sure someone (perhaps me?) will go on a big salvaging streak with enough gear to produce some useful results. 4x more is plausible, by comparing the _stated_ 20% chance of upgrade recovery for copper-fed with the 80% for silver-fed. But... well, those stated numbers have always seems less than reliable. i did another 1k sample with copper and silver fed, this time with green armor, since most cheap green weapons already sold. [Here](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/492756208529440788/512363376416915472/unknown.png) are the salvage results, copper upper, silver lower tab. Mostly the same as in my weapon sample. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted November 14, 2018 Author Share Posted November 14, 2018 > @"Wanze.8410" said: > i did another 1k sample with copper and silver fed, this time with green armor, since most cheap green weapons already sold. [Here](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/492756208529440788/512363376416915472/unknown.png) are the salvage results, copper upper, silver lower tab. > > Mostly the same as in my weapon sample. Super. Thanks for this. For those who don't want to visit external links * Copper-fed: 182 motes, 7 charms (also: 1874 silk, 102 gossamer) * Silver-fed: 766 motes, 18 charms (also: 2003 silk, 122 gossamer) ##### Math to determine current market values Value with Charms of Skill * Copper-fed: 223 silver = -30s in salvage costs, 78 silver of motes, 175s of charms * Silver-fed: 179 silver = -600s in salvage costs, 329 silver of motes, 215s of charms Value with charms of Potence * Copper-fed: 748 silver = -30s in salvage costs, 78 silver of motes, 700s of charms * Silver-fed: 1529 silver = -600s in salvage costs, 329 silver of motes, 1800s of charms Value with a mix of 2/3 skill, 1/3 potence (unsorted, unlucky scenario) * Copper-fed: 373 silver = -30s in salvage costs, 78 silver of motes, 325s of charms (=125 in skill + 200 in potence) * Silver-fed: 629 silver = -600s in salvage costs, 329 silver of motes, 900s of charms (= 300 in skill +600 in potence) ##### Summary Currently, it's worth using the silver-fed on masterwork gear **if** you salvage 1000s of greens and at least 1/6 of the charms|symbols turn out to be the higher priced ones. That will vary as markets adapt. Clearly, it's worth even more to salvage your gear differently based on the type of rune/sigil, but that undermines the QoL value of the patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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