Salvage Kits Can't Extract Runes Anymore? This is Stupid.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"robertthebard.8150" said:

> > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > > @"Zohane.7208" said:

> > > > @"Tatwi.3562" said:

> > > > 1. It's clearly a change that was made expressly to drain gold from players in the hopes they will buy gems with real money.

> > >

> > > This change is one of the absolutely most requested one by forum people, so I would guess Anet made it because it was actually asked for.

> > > > 2. I bought the game in 2012. I bought the two expansions. I purchased gems twice. If that's not enough for ArenaNet, too bad for them! Just going and changing the game in the hopes to squeeze more money from people like who play extremely casually is going to have only one result: I won't buy anything from you again.

> > > >

> > > > Stop making the game worse just to pressure people to buy gems. I can't believe how many times this has happened over the years....

> > >

> > > I have to say I don't feel pressured at all - I'm a casual player (by my own definition), and I very very rarely feel the need to get special runes or sigils. I'm just happy playing the game. If something nice comes my way I'll use a Black Lion kit - but that only ever happens very rarely.

> > > If anything, it's the Heavy farmers who might feel the change since they probably don't have enough kits for the loot they get.

> > >

> >

> > I do not believe this is what the forums asked for.. then again let us not forget of course the forums at best are nothing more than a minor trickle of the playerbase even if it were.

> > This is just another effort to shift the game further towards microtransactions nothing more.

> > If you wanted to gear up some ascended armour previous it was much quicker to do so and a lot cheaper. Now you either have to pray for RNGesus to smile down on you a lot or buy inflated rune prices or symbol prices.. this is just the next step on from the starved supply from the nullification bullcrap… The poster back then who laughed at the notion that the last update was a steer to wards such transaction that would then lead to BLSK's becoming a target, as well as extractors.. well now you have all the proof necessary, this is just another push to gem store transactions.

> > This change is in no way an improvement, its a case of ANET fixing something that was not broken to start with but now offers a more lucrative microtransaction strategy across a broad base of the game. There was simply no reason to alter the way salvage kits worked, if you wanted the option to crunch the runes then there were far easier ways or at worst just allow the same kits to salvage runes at will once in the inventory.. placing ridiculous drop rates on the symbols is just the same push the nullification sigil utilised to push harder to use the TP and hope the mats and symbols become entrenched at much higher prices to warrant gemsales…

> > TBH this more forced push to microtransactional requirements is a worrying sign to me, I've seen it before and it smells bad, which is a shame as I have supported Guild Wars since early GW1

>

> The problem is that, while some, including yourself, apparently, will feel "forced" into microtransactions, others won't feel the sting at all. For myself, I will buy things like bank space, and character slots, I am a self professed altaholic, and those are things I have to have in order to maintain that. I won't be spending a lot of gems on extractors, and if I ever thought I had to, I could focus entirely on changing my gold to gems, and never have to spend any money. I'm not in a big rush, so if it takes me a while, it takes me a while, I can stall a toon at a specific point and work others until I get what I need, or, I can work other aspects that I may not be caught up on, and since I'm relatively new, that's a lot of stuff to do until I feel "forced" to buy anything, that I haven't already listed, anyway.

 

Oh I have more than enough gold in this game to do the same, but its not about just ourselves .. new players now will have an even tougher time gearing etc.

Then again if we all just eat through our gold everytime something gets added or "fixed" in game then we have to spend that much more time trying to replace it.. which is why this game is all about farming and microtransactions these days and to me its a bad sign.. like I said in the nullification thread.. perhaps this is the shape of things to come. What will be micro transitioned next I wonder??

[Neurion.4086]

> @"robertthebard.8150" said:

> > @"Neurion.4086" said:

> > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > And instead of getting dozens and dozens of different kinds of runes and sigils, most of which **no one wants**, **we end up with only 3 types of charms, 3 types of symbols, and lucent motes**, all of which everyone will want (directly or indirectly)

> > >

> > No one wants? Speak for yourself. You don't really know what I, or other players want.

> >

> > As for what we end up with is not that certain as you make it sound. After salvaging more than 200+ green and rare items with the mystic salvage kit (and yes, I know the type of kit makes no difference) I ended up with a fair number of lucent motes, and:

> > - 3 symbols of enhancement,

> > - 1 symbol of pain

> > - 2 charms of skill.

> >

> > These numbers are not enough to buy a single recipe to learn. The drop rate is abysmal.

> >

> > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > >

> > > Just this cycle alone I got 3 salvage kits lol

> > >

> > > And if lucky, 25 exotics is the amount I get in half a year. Plus, I wouldn't want at least half of the sigils in there,. This is not an issue at all, people are just mad for no reason.

> >

> > Because you got 3 salvage kits this cycle it doesn't mean everyone does. I, for one, get around 5-6 salvage kits per year, while I have tons of repair canisters and reviving orbs. As you see, what you -personally **you**- get is not the norm for the rest of players. Laughing and dismissing other players' concern about the new situation as non-existant doesn't make the problem go away.

> >

> >

>

> Doesn't that work both ways, referring to your last paragraph? What you get is not reflective of what the rest of the community gets. For example, I have only gotten 1 revive orb, and one repair cannister, along with one extractor since I've been back. It's odd that you call another poster out for assuming their experience is representative, and yet, try to use your own experience as representative.

 

Yes, it does work both ways, that was the point of my post. I didn't make any assumption for it wasn't me who took for granted that everyone has stacks of "BL salvage kits lol", and I didn't try to use my "own experience as representative." I hope this clears things up.

[Emberstone.2904]

> @"Elricht Kaltwind.8796" said:

> ArenaNet didn't cheat or "swindle" you out of anything. Balance happens. Nerfs happen. You aren't entitled to runes and sigils for free. And if you read the fine text on your salvage kit, you'll find it doesn't claim to salvage runes any more. That's user error.

I don't think you'll find one person who compulsively reads the fine print on their salvage kits, just in case.

 

 

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Elricht Kaltwind.8796" said:

> This update feels like it addresses a lot of problems all at once. First, and most noticeably, the rebalance has significantly changed how runes and sigils interact with a build, and added more depth to choosing which ones you run. I never thought I'd see the day when a Sigil of Force and a Sigil of Justice actually pose a dilemma. Awesome.

>

> **But secondly, it makes runes and sigils actually worth something, which has been sorely needed for years.** The majority of runes and sigils have been un-sellable since, more or less, the game's launch. They now suddenly feel like something that matters, rather than just something you buy full sets of from the trading post for a few silver when your character hits level 80 and forget about. I can see why a player would consider it inconvenient that runes and sigils aren't a dime a dozen any more, but often convenience must be forgone in favour of gameplay, balance, and quality-of-life. I'm sure lots of players would like it if it cost five gold to craft a legendary, but there are a lot of reasons that isn't the case. Mind you, I also don't see a lot of players on the forums going "I'm a casual player and this isn't fair! How can I ever get a legendary if they cost a lot of gold?"

>

> ArenaNet didn't cheat or "swindle" you out of anything. Balance happens. Nerfs happen. You aren't entitled to runes and sigils for free. And if you read the fine text on your salvage kit, you'll find it doesn't claim to salvage runes any more. That's user error.

 

This guy gets it.

 

How well the system works long-term we will have to see and maybe the new system might need adjustments.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Elricht Kaltwind.8796" said:

> > This update feels like it addresses a lot of problems all at once. First, and most noticeably, the rebalance has significantly changed how runes and sigils interact with a build, and added more depth to choosing which ones you run. I never thought I'd see the day when a Sigil of Force and a Sigil of Justice actually pose a dilemma. Awesome.

> >

> > **But secondly, it makes runes and sigils actually worth something, which has been sorely needed for years.** The majority of runes and sigils have been un-sellable since, more or less, the game's launch. They now suddenly feel like something that matters, rather than just something you buy full sets of from the trading post for a few silver when your character hits level 80 and forget about. I can see why a player would consider it inconvenient that runes and sigils aren't a dime a dozen any more, but often convenience must be forgone in favour of gameplay, balance, and quality-of-life. I'm sure lots of players would like it if it cost five gold to craft a legendary, but there are a lot of reasons that isn't the case. Mind you, I also don't see a lot of players on the forums going "I'm a casual player and this isn't fair! How can I ever get a legendary if they cost a lot of gold?"

> >

> > ArenaNet didn't cheat or "swindle" you out of anything. Balance happens. Nerfs happen. You aren't entitled to runes and sigils for free. And if you read the fine text on your salvage kit, you'll find it doesn't claim to salvage runes any more. That's user error.

>

> This guy gets it.

>

> How well the system works long-term we will have to see and maybe the new system might need adjustments.

 

While i agree, i still dislike *not* getting sigils from salvaging, id rather have the option to salvage them if i want to, rather than be forced to spend gems if i want a sigil from a weapon, or armor, and thats with my stack of extractors and a grand total of 2 BLS Kits.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"robertthebard.8150" said:

>

> Doesn't that work both ways, referring to your last paragraph? What you get is not reflective of what the rest of the community gets. For example, I have only gotten 1 revive orb, and one repair cannister, along with one extractor since I've been back. It's odd that you call another poster out for assuming their experience is representative, and yet, try to use your own experience as representative.

The chance for black lion kit seems to be around 10% on each box, so 10% every week. On average you should be getting one black lion kit per 10 weeks, so my original estimate of one per 2-3 months was pretty much spot-on.

 

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"Elricht Kaltwind.8796" said:

> > > This update feels like it addresses a lot of problems all at once. First, and most noticeably, the rebalance has significantly changed how runes and sigils interact with a build, and added more depth to choosing which ones you run. I never thought I'd see the day when a Sigil of Force and a Sigil of Justice actually pose a dilemma. Awesome.

> > >

> > > **But secondly, it makes runes and sigils actually worth something, which has been sorely needed for years.** The majority of runes and sigils have been un-sellable since, more or less, the game's launch. They now suddenly feel like something that matters, rather than just something you buy full sets of from the trading post for a few silver when your character hits level 80 and forget about. I can see why a player would consider it inconvenient that runes and sigils aren't a dime a dozen any more, but often convenience must be forgone in favour of gameplay, balance, and quality-of-life. I'm sure lots of players would like it if it cost five gold to craft a legendary, but there are a lot of reasons that isn't the case. Mind you, I also don't see a lot of players on the forums going "I'm a casual player and this isn't fair! How can I ever get a legendary if they cost a lot of gold?"

> > >

> > > ArenaNet didn't cheat or "swindle" you out of anything. Balance happens. Nerfs happen. You aren't entitled to runes and sigils for free. And if you read the fine text on your salvage kit, you'll find it doesn't claim to salvage runes any more. That's user error.

> >

> > This guy gets it.

> >

> > How well the system works long-term we will have to see and maybe the new system might need adjustments.

>

> While i agree, i still dislike *not* getting sigils from salvaging, id rather have the option to salvage them if i want to, rather than be forced to spend gems if i want a sigil from a weapon, or armor, and thats with my stack of extractors and a grand total of 2 BLS Kits.

 

I get that, I'm not going to pretend as though this change was not designed with increasing importance of Upgrade Extraction devices or making BLSK more important.

 

I just think long-term, if the system remains stable and works as intended, people will receive more materials overall or more value from all runes and sigils. The major negative affect will be that similar to gear, it makes everything you get just a value of gold which if gather enough of allows you to craft/purchase an item of desire. Then again, unless you really needed that sigil/rune of high value right at that moment in time, how many people just salvaged and sold a drop (or sold the exotic strait) on the TP anyway?

[Zaklex.6308]

This was announced two weeks ago that they were doing a complete update to how Sigils and Runes work and the salvaging of them, the onus is actually on you to keep with changes to the game.

Well, now I have a use for the almost 75 BLK's that I have spread over various characters...and that Unlimited Upgrade Extractor I got one time is actually useful(besides the 150 regular Upgrade Extractors I have). Of course I'm not salvaging Exotics or others all that often at the moment, or ever, so that isn't an issue.

[robertthebard.8150]

> @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > @"robertthebard.8150" said:

> > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > > > @"Zohane.7208" said:

> > > > > @"Tatwi.3562" said:

> > > > > 1. It's clearly a change that was made expressly to drain gold from players in the hopes they will buy gems with real money.

> > > >

> > > > This change is one of the absolutely most requested one by forum people, so I would guess Anet made it because it was actually asked for.

> > > > > 2. I bought the game in 2012. I bought the two expansions. I purchased gems twice. If that's not enough for ArenaNet, too bad for them! Just going and changing the game in the hopes to squeeze more money from people like who play extremely casually is going to have only one result: I won't buy anything from you again.

> > > > >

> > > > > Stop making the game worse just to pressure people to buy gems. I can't believe how many times this has happened over the years....

> > > >

> > > > I have to say I don't feel pressured at all - I'm a casual player (by my own definition), and I very very rarely feel the need to get special runes or sigils. I'm just happy playing the game. If something nice comes my way I'll use a Black Lion kit - but that only ever happens very rarely.

> > > > If anything, it's the Heavy farmers who might feel the change since they probably don't have enough kits for the loot they get.

> > > >

> > >

> > > I do not believe this is what the forums asked for.. then again let us not forget of course the forums at best are nothing more than a minor trickle of the playerbase even if it were.

> > > This is just another effort to shift the game further towards microtransactions nothing more.

> > > If you wanted to gear up some ascended armour previous it was much quicker to do so and a lot cheaper. Now you either have to pray for RNGesus to smile down on you a lot or buy inflated rune prices or symbol prices.. this is just the next step on from the starved supply from the nullification bullcrap… The poster back then who laughed at the notion that the last update was a steer to wards such transaction that would then lead to BLSK's becoming a target, as well as extractors.. well now you have all the proof necessary, this is just another push to gem store transactions.

> > > This change is in no way an improvement, its a case of ANET fixing something that was not broken to start with but now offers a more lucrative microtransaction strategy across a broad base of the game. There was simply no reason to alter the way salvage kits worked, if you wanted the option to crunch the runes then there were far easier ways or at worst just allow the same kits to salvage runes at will once in the inventory.. placing ridiculous drop rates on the symbols is just the same push the nullification sigil utilised to push harder to use the TP and hope the mats and symbols become entrenched at much higher prices to warrant gemsales…

> > > TBH this more forced push to microtransactional requirements is a worrying sign to me, I've seen it before and it smells bad, which is a shame as I have supported Guild Wars since early GW1

> >

> > The problem is that, while some, including yourself, apparently, will feel "forced" into microtransactions, others won't feel the sting at all. For myself, I will buy things like bank space, and character slots, I am a self professed altaholic, and those are things I have to have in order to maintain that. I won't be spending a lot of gems on extractors, and if I ever thought I had to, I could focus entirely on changing my gold to gems, and never have to spend any money. I'm not in a big rush, so if it takes me a while, it takes me a while, I can stall a toon at a specific point and work others until I get what I need, or, I can work other aspects that I may not be caught up on, and since I'm relatively new, that's a lot of stuff to do until I feel "forced" to buy anything, that I haven't already listed, anyway.

>

> Oh I have more than enough gold in this game to do the same, but its not about just ourselves .. new players now will have an even tougher time gearing etc.

> Then again if we all just eat through our gold everytime something gets added or "fixed" in game then we have to spend that much more time trying to replace it.. which is why this game is all about farming and microtransactions these days and to me its a bad sign.. like I said in the nullification thread.. perhaps this is the shape of things to come. What will be micro transitioned next I wonder??

 

I am a relatively new player, and it's not going to be much harder now than it was when I left a few months back. I'm just going to have to hang on to a piece of gear that maybe I don't want, because it has an upgrade that I do want.

[Vayne.8563]

> @"Emberstone.2904" said:

> > @"robertthebard.8150" said:

> > I actually got an upgrade back today, so there is a chance to get them. Granted, I was surprised, but it did happen. As for your "one good reason" question: that's not the way the system works any more.

> Then I'll probably just find a different game to play, then. I started back up recently, I'm not too far in to stop. I abhor games that press microtransactions upon their players, especially ones that take already-existing features away and put them behind microtransactions for no good reason.

>

> And for the people who say "well the information was out there, you should've known." I don't live on the forums. I don't have the time to do research about the thing I use to kill time away from my real-life research work. I'm supposed to be able to come here and relax, not be frustrated over something that shouldn't be.

>

> If a means to do this existed as an in-game item for a reasonable price (not 300 gems) from traditional vendors for gold, then I wouldn't be complaining.

>

>

 

You don't have to do research to read patch notes for the big patches that come out with a link right on the launcher. Big patch, read patchnotes. It's not really that hard. Not to mention the article about it on the Guild Wars 2 site. I don't disagree that it's not perfect. But it affects a tiny percentage of people. The benefits for the bulk of the playerbase outweighs the six guys that will leave over this. It's a ridiculous thing to leave a game over, considering you can buy the stuff with gold and there was a price drop. But people leave MMOs due to changes all the time. I don't think this is that big a deal. Only you can decide if it's that big a deal to you.

[Shinjiko.1352]

When I first read this update I thought it would salvage runes like normal and then you'd have to salvage them again if you wanted the materials. Was shocked to see it just auto salvages them. Don't know how I feel tbh but I am still loving the lack of green runes clogging my inventory.

 

My question now is... is the Silver fed worth it? Does it's higher % affect the rune salvage chance or is it unaffected?

[XenoSpyro.1780]

> @"Astraea.6075" said:

> but we don't have any information about how technically difficult this might have been to implement.

Too technically difficult to make upgrades pull from gear again. A system that had already existed.

Too technically difficult to make upgrades excluded from Salvage All. A system that had already existed by proxy of upgrades being unsalvageable.

Too technically difficult to make upgrades salvageable by clicking. A system that currently exists.

Too technically difficult to make a new option called "Salvage All/Avoid Mote". Could be made to exist as shown by the introduction of salvaging by rarity.

 

mfw : https://media.tenor.com/images/a6c2c70dfa7185e8c75376429a8e2063/tenor.gif

 

I suppose the plethora of broken events in this game are also too technically difficult to fix? They go untreated for months or even years after all.

[Ze Dos Cavalos.6132]

Credit card players are happy coz they never run out of blsk or upgrade extractors.

They buy like 100 bl keys per month (or more), they will never have a problem to get the sigil of force out from a weapon.

 

I do weekly key farm for years and farmed lots of keys before the key farm nerf.

Right now I have like 10 extractors and 5 blsk, is only a matter of time until I use them all.

 

Like I said before is a pay to win feature, in a few months if u want to get that sigil you just got from a drop you will have to buy items from gem store.

 

Yeah we can also use ingame gold to buy gems, great another gold sink and we wont get much profit, atm to buy 1 blsk is 65g.

 

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

I feel sigils and runes should always be extractable from exotics. For newer players it sucks because they dont have all those black lion salvage kits that us veterans have. With that being said, my advice for new/casual players is to sell the exotics then purchase that rune/sigil.

[Arsenic Touch.7960]

It should've been a choice, but they want to sell those extractors.

 

Crafting is great, but when the recipes call for items worth more than what you're crafting, someone screwed up. Then again the whole crafting system in general is riddled with crap like that.

[Goettel.4389]

Sure sucks to feel cheated. I love the changes, and if players choose to buy more gems for money that's great too. Forced micro transactions? Nope, grind gold if you don't want to spent, I do.

[Clyan.1593]

There is zero reason to salvage the sigils/runes along with the armor/weapon. Actually it's a pretty bad change. They simply could have made it so, that sigils and runes still get extracted from the salvaging process, and then in a second salvage attempt you could destroy them as well. But nope. Now you are mostly forced to craft them yourself or buy them from TP. Just dumb. And an obvious change to cause a gold sink and gain more $.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > @"Elricht Kaltwind.8796" said:

> > > > This update feels like it addresses a lot of problems all at once. First, and most noticeably, the rebalance has significantly changed how runes and sigils interact with a build, and added more depth to choosing which ones you run. I never thought I'd see the day when a Sigil of Force and a Sigil of Justice actually pose a dilemma. Awesome.

> > > >

> > > > **But secondly, it makes runes and sigils actually worth something, which has been sorely needed for years.** The majority of runes and sigils have been un-sellable since, more or less, the game's launch. They now suddenly feel like something that matters, rather than just something you buy full sets of from the trading post for a few silver when your character hits level 80 and forget about. I can see why a player would consider it inconvenient that runes and sigils aren't a dime a dozen any more, but often convenience must be forgone in favour of gameplay, balance, and quality-of-life. I'm sure lots of players would like it if it cost five gold to craft a legendary, but there are a lot of reasons that isn't the case. Mind you, I also don't see a lot of players on the forums going "I'm a casual player and this isn't fair! How can I ever get a legendary if they cost a lot of gold?"

> > > >

> > > > ArenaNet didn't cheat or "swindle" you out of anything. Balance happens. Nerfs happen. You aren't entitled to runes and sigils for free. And if you read the fine text on your salvage kit, you'll find it doesn't claim to salvage runes any more. That's user error.

> > >

> > > This guy gets it.

> > >

> > > How well the system works long-term we will have to see and maybe the new system might need adjustments.

> >

> > While i agree, i still dislike *not* getting sigils from salvaging, id rather have the option to salvage them if i want to, rather than be forced to spend gems if i want a sigil from a weapon, or armor, and thats with my stack of extractors and a grand total of 2 BLS Kits.

>

> I get that, I'm not going to pretend as though this change was not designed with increasing importance of Upgrade Extraction devices or making BLSK more important.

>

> I just think long-term, if the system remains stable and works as intended, people will receive more materials overall or more value from all runes and sigils. The major negative affect will be that similar to gear, it makes everything you get just a value of gold which if gather enough of allows you to craft/purchase an item of desire. Then again, unless you really needed that sigil/rune of high value right at that moment in time, how many people just salvaged and sold a drop (or sold the exotic strait) on the TP anyway?

 

Perhaps, i can also see the prices of all these materials dropping to below merchant value in the long run with the exception of the rarer versions, but even those i *could* see falling to those levels, and then they are just as useless, and worthless as pre change sigils where.

 

Im glad they changed the runes, im glad they made them craftable, especially the ones that didnt have crafting recipes like the sigil of nullification. But, my grievance over all with this system is it makes BLC mandatory if you want the rune, or an upgrade extractor. Of which not everone has a stockpile or the endless versions like @"Zaklex.6308" does. The option to salvage them should exist, it shouldnt be mandatory.

 

 

[Rasimir.6239]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > @"Elricht Kaltwind.8796" said:

> > > > > This update feels like it addresses a lot of problems all at once. First, and most noticeably, the rebalance has significantly changed how runes and sigils interact with a build, and added more depth to choosing which ones you run. I never thought I'd see the day when a Sigil of Force and a Sigil of Justice actually pose a dilemma. Awesome.

> > > > >

> > > > > **But secondly, it makes runes and sigils actually worth something, which has been sorely needed for years.** The majority of runes and sigils have been un-sellable since, more or less, the game's launch. They now suddenly feel like something that matters, rather than just something you buy full sets of from the trading post for a few silver when your character hits level 80 and forget about. I can see why a player would consider it inconvenient that runes and sigils aren't a dime a dozen any more, but often convenience must be forgone in favour of gameplay, balance, and quality-of-life. I'm sure lots of players would like it if it cost five gold to craft a legendary, but there are a lot of reasons that isn't the case. Mind you, I also don't see a lot of players on the forums going "I'm a casual player and this isn't fair! How can I ever get a legendary if they cost a lot of gold?"

> > > > >

> > > > > ArenaNet didn't cheat or "swindle" you out of anything. Balance happens. Nerfs happen. You aren't entitled to runes and sigils for free. And if you read the fine text on your salvage kit, you'll find it doesn't claim to salvage runes any more. That's user error.

> > > >

> > > > This guy gets it.

> > > >

> > > > How well the system works long-term we will have to see and maybe the new system might need adjustments.

> > >

> > > While i agree, i still dislike *not* getting sigils from salvaging, id rather have the option to salvage them if i want to, rather than be forced to spend gems if i want a sigil from a weapon, or armor, and thats with my stack of extractors and a grand total of 2 BLS Kits.

> >

> > I get that, I'm not going to pretend as though this change was not designed with increasing importance of Upgrade Extraction devices or making BLSK more important.

> >

> > I just think long-term, if the system remains stable and works as intended, people will receive more materials overall or more value from all runes and sigils. The major negative affect will be that similar to gear, it makes everything you get just a value of gold which if gather enough of allows you to craft/purchase an item of desire. Then again, unless you really needed that sigil/rune of high value right at that moment in time, how many people just salvaged and sold a drop (or sold the exotic strait) on the TP anyway?

>

> Perhaps, i can also see the prices of all these materials dropping to below merchant value in the long run with the exception of the rarer versions, but even those i *could* see falling to those levels, and then they are just as useless, and worthless as pre change sigils where.

>

> Im glad they changed the runes, im glad they made them craftable, especially the ones that didnt have crafting recipes like the sigil of nullification. But, my grievance over all with this system is it makes BLC mandatory if you want the rune, or an upgrade extractor. Of which not everone has a stockpile or the endless versions like @"Zaklex.6308" does. The option to salvage them should exist, it shouldnt be mandatory.

But the option to salvage them has a direct impact on the value of the salvaged crafting materials. If you can easily salvage runes and sigils off of equipment you'll significantly reduce the market for those salvaged materials, and thus run into the very problem you are painting in the first paragraph: the salvaged materials will be worthless, since most people will circumvent the crafting by extracting the runes and sigills outright.

 

By forcing us to auto-salvage runes and sigills on equipment and only allowing a very costly (aka gemstore) convenience way to bypass the crafting stage, they have in fact laid the foundation for the crafting system to actually work. Once people get used to seeing runes and sigills as output of crafting disciplins there's a good chance the system will settle in a comfortable spot where getting masterwork (green) drops is actually more valuable than getting fine (blue) drops due to the added chance of rune and sigill crafting materials, and getting the rune or sigill you really want is a lot more convenient than it used to be, especially for the drop-only components (as the recent outcry about the sigill of nullification illustrates).

[Mizenhauer.6713]

Have a merchant sell a single use extractor for something like 20 silver and call it a day.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Rasimir.6239" said:

> > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > > @"Elricht Kaltwind.8796" said:

> > > > > > This update feels like it addresses a lot of problems all at once. First, and most noticeably, the rebalance has significantly changed how runes and sigils interact with a build, and added more depth to choosing which ones you run. I never thought I'd see the day when a Sigil of Force and a Sigil of Justice actually pose a dilemma. Awesome.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > **But secondly, it makes runes and sigils actually worth something, which has been sorely needed for years.** The majority of runes and sigils have been un-sellable since, more or less, the game's launch. They now suddenly feel like something that matters, rather than just something you buy full sets of from the trading post for a few silver when your character hits level 80 and forget about. I can see why a player would consider it inconvenient that runes and sigils aren't a dime a dozen any more, but often convenience must be forgone in favour of gameplay, balance, and quality-of-life. I'm sure lots of players would like it if it cost five gold to craft a legendary, but there are a lot of reasons that isn't the case. Mind you, I also don't see a lot of players on the forums going "I'm a casual player and this isn't fair! How can I ever get a legendary if they cost a lot of gold?"

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ArenaNet didn't cheat or "swindle" you out of anything. Balance happens. Nerfs happen. You aren't entitled to runes and sigils for free. And if you read the fine text on your salvage kit, you'll find it doesn't claim to salvage runes any more. That's user error.

> > > > >

> > > > > This guy gets it.

> > > > >

> > > > > How well the system works long-term we will have to see and maybe the new system might need adjustments.

> > > >

> > > > While i agree, i still dislike *not* getting sigils from salvaging, id rather have the option to salvage them if i want to, rather than be forced to spend gems if i want a sigil from a weapon, or armor, and thats with my stack of extractors and a grand total of 2 BLS Kits.

> > >

> > > I get that, I'm not going to pretend as though this change was not designed with increasing importance of Upgrade Extraction devices or making BLSK more important.

> > >

> > > I just think long-term, if the system remains stable and works as intended, people will receive more materials overall or more value from all runes and sigils. The major negative affect will be that similar to gear, it makes everything you get just a value of gold which if gather enough of allows you to craft/purchase an item of desire. Then again, unless you really needed that sigil/rune of high value right at that moment in time, how many people just salvaged and sold a drop (or sold the exotic strait) on the TP anyway?

> >

> > Perhaps, i can also see the prices of all these materials dropping to below merchant value in the long run with the exception of the rarer versions, but even those i *could* see falling to those levels, and then they are just as useless, and worthless as pre change sigils where.

> >

> > Im glad they changed the runes, im glad they made them craftable, especially the ones that didnt have crafting recipes like the sigil of nullification. But, my grievance over all with this system is it makes BLC mandatory if you want the rune, or an upgrade extractor. Of which not everone has a stockpile or the endless versions like @"Zaklex.6308" does. The option to salvage them should exist, it shouldnt be mandatory.

> But the option to salvage them has a direct impact on the value of the salvaged crafting materials. If you can easily salvage runes and sigils off of equipment you'll significantly reduce the market for those salvaged materials, and thus run into the very problem you are painting in the first paragraph: the salvaged materials will be worthless, since most people will circumvent the crafting by extracting the runes and sigills outright.

>

> By forcing us to auto-salvage runes and sigills on equipment and only allowing a very costly (aka gemstore) convenience way to bypass the crafting stage, they have in fact laid the foundation for the crafting system to actually work. Once people get used to seeing runes and sigills as output of crafting disciplins there's a good chance the system will settle in a comfortable spot where getting masterwork (green) drops is actually more valuable than getting fine (blue) drops due to the added chance of rune and sigill crafting materials, and getting the rune or sigill you really want is a lot more convenient than it used to be, especially for the drop-only components (as the recent outcry about the sigill of nullification illustrates).

 

Ill only agree with that if theres an item you can purchase from a merchant with in game currency(be it 5-25 silver for example) that allows for the removal of runes, forcing players into the gem store for something they already could do in game, which has been lost, is something i will never agree with.

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

I don't like the change. I don't hate it (its not like that miserable NPE change several years back) but I don't see it as a positive.

[perilisk.1874]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> Ill only agree with that if theres an item you can purchase from a merchant with in game currency(be it 5-25 silver for example) that allows for the removal of runes, forcing players into the gem store for something they already could do in game, which has been lost, is something i will never agree with.

 

What if it was 1g plus some other currency, and only worked on ascended gear, and salvaged it in the process?

 

[Ana.2415]

At first I thought we would still get runes/sigils and we were gonna be able to salvage them...but then I noticed I wasn't getting any of them.

I don't know why they made it like this. I still want to get runes/sigil and I wanna decide if I want them so salvage or not.

 

I really hope they make a solution for this... like adding an option to the salvage kits "Salvage and extract" so at least we still get the chance to extract them and then decide If we want to sell them, salvage, or use them.

 

Thanks Anet for forcing me to salvage my runes instead of give me the chance to extract them and do whatever I want with them.

[Rasimir.6239]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Rasimir.6239" said:

> > > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > > > @"Elricht Kaltwind.8796" said:

> > > > > > > This update feels like it addresses a lot of problems all at once. First, and most noticeably, the rebalance has significantly changed how runes and sigils interact with a build, and added more depth to choosing which ones you run. I never thought I'd see the day when a Sigil of Force and a Sigil of Justice actually pose a dilemma. Awesome.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > **But secondly, it makes runes and sigils actually worth something, which has been sorely needed for years.** The majority of runes and sigils have been un-sellable since, more or less, the game's launch. They now suddenly feel like something that matters, rather than just something you buy full sets of from the trading post for a few silver when your character hits level 80 and forget about. I can see why a player would consider it inconvenient that runes and sigils aren't a dime a dozen any more, but often convenience must be forgone in favour of gameplay, balance, and quality-of-life. I'm sure lots of players would like it if it cost five gold to craft a legendary, but there are a lot of reasons that isn't the case. Mind you, I also don't see a lot of players on the forums going "I'm a casual player and this isn't fair! How can I ever get a legendary if they cost a lot of gold?"

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ArenaNet didn't cheat or "swindle" you out of anything. Balance happens. Nerfs happen. You aren't entitled to runes and sigils for free. And if you read the fine text on your salvage kit, you'll find it doesn't claim to salvage runes any more. That's user error.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This guy gets it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > How well the system works long-term we will have to see and maybe the new system might need adjustments.

> > > > >

> > > > > While i agree, i still dislike *not* getting sigils from salvaging, id rather have the option to salvage them if i want to, rather than be forced to spend gems if i want a sigil from a weapon, or armor, and thats with my stack of extractors and a grand total of 2 BLS Kits.

> > > >

> > > > I get that, I'm not going to pretend as though this change was not designed with increasing importance of Upgrade Extraction devices or making BLSK more important.

> > > >

> > > > I just think long-term, if the system remains stable and works as intended, people will receive more materials overall or more value from all runes and sigils. The major negative affect will be that similar to gear, it makes everything you get just a value of gold which if gather enough of allows you to craft/purchase an item of desire. Then again, unless you really needed that sigil/rune of high value right at that moment in time, how many people just salvaged and sold a drop (or sold the exotic strait) on the TP anyway?

> > >

> > > Perhaps, i can also see the prices of all these materials dropping to below merchant value in the long run with the exception of the rarer versions, but even those i *could* see falling to those levels, and then they are just as useless, and worthless as pre change sigils where.

> > >

> > > Im glad they changed the runes, im glad they made them craftable, especially the ones that didnt have crafting recipes like the sigil of nullification. But, my grievance over all with this system is it makes BLC mandatory if you want the rune, or an upgrade extractor. Of which not everone has a stockpile or the endless versions like @"Zaklex.6308" does. The option to salvage them should exist, it shouldnt be mandatory.

> > But the option to salvage them has a direct impact on the value of the salvaged crafting materials. If you can easily salvage runes and sigils off of equipment you'll significantly reduce the market for those salvaged materials, and thus run into the very problem you are painting in the first paragraph: the salvaged materials will be worthless, since most people will circumvent the crafting by extracting the runes and sigills outright.

> >

> > By forcing us to auto-salvage runes and sigills on equipment and only allowing a very costly (aka gemstore) convenience way to bypass the crafting stage, they have in fact laid the foundation for the crafting system to actually work. Once people get used to seeing runes and sigills as output of crafting disciplins there's a good chance the system will settle in a comfortable spot where getting masterwork (green) drops is actually more valuable than getting fine (blue) drops due to the added chance of rune and sigill crafting materials, and getting the rune or sigill you really want is a lot more convenient than it used to be, especially for the drop-only components (as the recent outcry about the sigill of nullification illustrates).

>

> Ill only agree with that if theres an item you can purchase from a merchant with in game currency(be it 5-25 silver for example) that allows for the removal of runes, forcing players into the gem store for something they already could do in game, which has been lost, is something i will never agree with.

 

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I think the goal of the change is that outright extraction of runes and sigils doesn't happen any more. Instead aquisition should be through the materials you get from salvaging equipment (and the occasional runes and sigils from stuff like level rewards or the rune bags the guild vendor sometimes offers). Thus the price of extracting runes and sigils intact (currently around 4 gold per bl salvage kit charge, or close to 30 gold per upgrade extractor) was purposefully set to a level that isn't negligible, not to force gemstore interaction, but rather to make people only do so in very special and specific circumstances.

 

As for changing something you could do before, that's nothing new, neither in this game nor in other similar games. Multiplayer online games have a long lifespan, and they can only live for years if they evolve. Evolution means change, and change means things don't always stay the way they were. Just because we were able to do something at one point doesn't mean we'll be able to do it that way for all eternity.