Should Plasma be removed from Siamoth?

[Euthymias.7984]

Its not Plasma in itself.

Its plasma in conjunction with +66% Boon Duration + Additional boonstacking/copying methods (Fresh Reinforcements/Nature Magic, WHaO, ect)

Just lower the Boon Duration to 33% from Moa Stance. It seems like a decent spot for boon duration (akin to Rev's previous Facet of Nature, which was nerfed from 50%) and the huge boon uptime wont be as ridiculous.

 

On another note, make the Winter's Bite effect gained while merged be consumed if your next attack misses. It would at least be a bit fairer vs Power builds if they can lower how much uptime Weakness has on Mainhand Axe, but that's assuming said builds (particularly Holosmith) gets toned down a bit in the process.

[bigo.9037]

> @"Euthymias.7984" said:

> Its not Plasma in itself.

> Its plasma in conjunction with +66% Boon Duration + Additional boonstacking/copying methods (Fresh Reinforcements/Nature Magic, WHaO, ect)

> Just lower the Boon Duration to 33% from Moa Stance. It seems like a decent spot for boon duration (akin to Rev's previous Facet of Nature, which was nerfed from 50%) and the huge boon uptime wont be as ridiculous.

>

> On another note, make the Winter's Bite effect gained while merged be consumed if your next attack misses. It would at least be a bit fairer vs Power builds if they can lower how much uptime Weakness has on Mainhand Axe, but that's assuming said builds (particularly Holosmith) gets toned down a bit in the process.

 

if you nerf moastance like that you also invalidate other non boonspam builds that use it. 33% boon duration with 75% uptime... idk if that's worth s utility slot unless you're kittening out boons all the time. like the meta boonbeast build. I think you need to do a combination of moastance tweaking and naturemagic boon copying to fix it. or rather the way NM boons interact with soulbeast.

[Ario.8964]

Granted my opinion will be incredibly biased as a rev and holo main, but I don't like rng stuff determining the outcome of a fight. The issue I see from the other side is that without the boons from plasma, survivability drops significantly which could limit the roles SB can fill especially when holo and other builds will be able to punish it more consistently due to the lack of the "break" given by plasma.

[bigo.9037]

> @"Ario.8964" said:

> Granted my opinion will be incredibly biased as a rev and holo main, but I don't like rng stuff determining the outcome of a fight. The issue I see from the other side is that without the boons from plasma, survivability drops significantly which could limit the roles SB can fill especially when holo and other builds will be able to punish it more consistently due to the lack of the "break" given by plasma.

 

Which is exactly why anet should nerf the plasma or how it interacts eith NM, holospec, mirage and FB. Things would be much more even and fair in that case.

[LughLongArm.5460]

I'm taking a break of GW2 for 6 mouths, I'm coming back to discover the top meta build for ranger is axe axe build with bird and pig, imagine my surprise.

I don't think that plasma should go away if it's not part of a complete overall to pigs F2.

 

I get the RNG argument but it should be remembered that many of the pets work in the environment of "rng". I remember the same exactly argument years ago when some complained the KD from wolf which was RNG in the scene in was not always controllable and could be the difference between win and a lose. Today it's even worse, I never know if the electric wyvern will actually trip the targets it passes by like it supposed to, or if the gazalle will charge the target to just rocket himself into oblivion. For me all of the above are considered RNG and could be the difference between a win and a lose.

 

Another aspect of this is that as much as I remember the plasma could be stolen by foe, giving players an obvious counter that could devastating to the player.

 

If anything, A.net should look at the "plasma" item itself, as this item getting stronger and stronger with every new boon that is being presented to the game and I'm not convinced it's part of any balance consideration. But it shouldn't be due to the pig itself, I think it's great rangers found a build which is built around a specific pet ability, it was one of my hopes from the ranger class to begin with.

 

[jcbroe.4329]

Just wanted to follow up and say as I continue to build test as I queue, I just don't see the value of Siamoth.

 

Don't get me wrong, I get that plasma is strong. But the pig family is just such a subpar pet family for me. I'm struggling to find the value in trading an entire pet slot and merge skill selection just to have access to plasma.

 

So let me jump on the trend/bandwagon here; nerf plasma, buff pig family.

[Durzlla.6295]

> @"jcbroe.4329" said:

> Just wanted to follow up and say as I continue to build test as I queue, I just don't see the value of Siamoth.

>

> Don't get me wrong, I get that plasma is strong. But the pig family is just such a subpar pet family for me. I'm struggling to find the value in trading an entire pet slot and merge skill selection just to have access to plasma.

>

> So let me jump on the trend/bandwagon here; nerf plasma, buff pig family.

 

Shit don’t just buff pigs buff pretty much all core pet families.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

> @"Durzlla.6295" said:

> > @"jcbroe.4329" said:

> > Just wanted to follow up and say as I continue to build test as I queue, I just don't see the value of Siamoth.

> >

> > Don't get me wrong, I get that plasma is strong. But the pig family is just such a subpar pet family for me. I'm struggling to find the value in trading an entire pet slot and merge skill selection just to have access to plasma.

> >

> > So let me jump on the trend/bandwagon here; nerf plasma, buff pig family.

>

> kitten don’t just buff pigs buff pretty much all core pet families.

 

Let's face it, we have too many pets, it is too hard for developers to fix all pets. Takes ages to fix classes, 8 x 3 (core+spec 1 + spec 2) + 1x2 (Revenant + spec 1), do you realize what means to fix 42 pets (saying 8 pets are almost ok atm). I mean, yes, I'll be glad if they do it, but I think we ask them too much. Maybe they shouldn't give us so many pets, from the beginning.

[Durzlla.6295]

> @"Dragonzhunter.8506" said:

> > @"Durzlla.6295" said:

> > > @"jcbroe.4329" said:

> > > Just wanted to follow up and say as I continue to build test as I queue, I just don't see the value of Siamoth.

> > >

> > > Don't get me wrong, I get that plasma is strong. But the pig family is just such a subpar pet family for me. I'm struggling to find the value in trading an entire pet slot and merge skill selection just to have access to plasma.

> > >

> > > So let me jump on the trend/bandwagon here; nerf plasma, buff pig family.

> >

> > kitten don’t just buff pigs buff pretty much all core pet families.

>

> Let's face it, we have too many pets, it is too hard for developers to fix all pets. Takes ages to fix classes, 8 x 3 (core+spec 1 + spec 2) + 1x2 (Revenant + spec 1), do you realize what means to fix 42 pets (saying 8 pets are almost ok atm). I mean, yes, I'll be glad if they do it, but I think we ask them too much. Maybe they shouldn't give us so many pets, from the beginning.

 

The difference is of the “42 pets” there’s only 18 families, and those families share 3 of their 4 skills. When we cross out the post HoT families (because they’re actually good) that knocks us down to pretty much 12 pets that need fixing, and judging by the fact that pets just consist of a bundle of completely static stats, and 4 skills, one of which is an auto attack it shouldn’t be too difficult.

 

This becomes even easier when you consider some of the pets, such as cats, just need their skills to lunge towards the target so they can hit moving targets better and they’d be fine. This exact tech was already added post HoT to smokescale, Wyvern, and the rock gazelle which means it could be added to them.

 

It was also added forever ago onto Moa Morph abilities, and 2 of them are identical to our pet moas skills but they don’t lunge, and a 3rd is literally identical but it has better scaling.

 

Pets are not classes, they are not nearly as complex as classes, and using the raw number of pets vs the number of classes + elite specs as reason as to why it won’t get done is flawed, and a very poor argument at best.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

> @"Durzlla.6295" said:

> > @"Dragonzhunter.8506" said:

> > > @"Durzlla.6295" said:

> > > > @"jcbroe.4329" said:

> > > > Just wanted to follow up and say as I continue to build test as I queue, I just don't see the value of Siamoth.

> > > >

> > > > Don't get me wrong, I get that plasma is strong. But the pig family is just such a subpar pet family for me. I'm struggling to find the value in trading an entire pet slot and merge skill selection just to have access to plasma.

> > > >

> > > > So let me jump on the trend/bandwagon here; nerf plasma, buff pig family.

> > >

> > > kitten don’t just buff pigs buff pretty much all core pet families.

> >

> > Let's face it, we have too many pets, it is too hard for developers to fix all pets. Takes ages to fix classes, 8 x 3 (core+spec 1 + spec 2) + 1x2 (Revenant + spec 1), do you realize what means to fix 42 pets (saying 8 pets are almost ok atm). I mean, yes, I'll be glad if they do it, but I think we ask them too much. Maybe they shouldn't give us so many pets, from the beginning.

>

> The difference is of the “42 pets” there’s only 18 families, and those families share 3 of their 4 skills. When we cross out the post HoT families (because they’re actually good) that knocks us down to pretty much 12 pets that need fixing, and judging by the fact that pets just consist of a bundle of completely static stats, and 4 skills, one of which is an auto attack it shouldn’t be too difficult.

>

> This becomes even easier when you consider some of the pets, such as cats, just need their skills to lunge towards the target so they can hit moving targets better and they’d be fine. This exact tech was already added post HoT to smokescale, Wyvern, and the rock gazelle which means it could be added to them.

>

> It was also added forever ago onto Moa Morph abilities, and 2 of them are identical to our pet moas skills but they don’t lunge, and a 3rd is literally identical but it has better scaling.

>

> Pets are not classes, they are not nearly as complex as classes, and using the raw number of pets vs the number of classes + elite specs as reason as to why it won’t get done is flawed, and a very poor argument at best.

 

Even 18 families mean a lot because is not about to fix only 18 skill but to make a synergy between all their skills, between their skills and our class skills/traits.

Those pets have different F2 and different F3 ... there are many aspects who can or cannot interact or influence our class.

It is not easy at all. Each of those 50 pets (because even they have 1 different skill, this could influence in bad or good mode) must be fixed considering all 3 specialization core, druid and soulbeast. I think you know that many times when you change/fix a little thing in a game, many things can be broken.

If you think it is easy, just because they are only 18 families, why don't you tell them how to do it? :)

[Krispera.5087]

> @"LughLongArm.5460" said:

> I never know if the electric wyvern will actually trip the targets it passes by like it supposed to, or if the gazalle will charge the target to just rocket himself into oblivion. For me all of the above are considered RNG and could be the difference between a win and a lose.

 

You just legit triggered me by reminding me of this, LMAO. :'( . I use E Wyvern often when I play Druid and it's just SO infuriating to hope it actually hits someone. Rock Gazelle is then easily unusable for 3-5 secs after going into the oblivion.

 

Pets need serious help... Meanwhile, Smokescale will keep getting nerfed because it's the only thing that can land hits.

[scerevisiae.1972]

Yeah there is a major issue around how wildly ineffective most pets are. Frankly the pets in this game are so poorly designed/implemented and still remain so after 6 years it would really just be better for the game if 80% of them were just removed and the rest given proper attention to make them relaible and worth using.

 

The lazy/easy solution would be to just make all the currently weak pets' special attacks instant and with decent range to make up for the extremely poor ai.

[lodjur.1284]

RNG skills and weird gimicks should never be viable, let alone BiS. Hell I'd be okay with plasma being the only skill you get and it not being a weird item drop. After these fixes actually nerfing the skill would be much easier.

 

Another option is ofc to just remove it.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Eleazar.9478" said:

> No. No no. Why the kitten do people always ask for pet nerfs?Nerf soulbeast moa stance and ect in pvp. Not the core pet. (Trying to kitten up my core build huh)

>

>

> And over performing? it's good and in the meta but boon beast gets countered by Mesmer and is weak in team fights. It's really moa stance being over the top.

>

> Sides soulbeast needs buffs (Griffin and vulture are jokes) dagger still sucks beyond belief in pvp.

>

> Moa stance is OPif they need that boon beast is going to have a lot of steam takin out of it

 

I fundamentally disagree with this entire philosophy. The number one goal of balance is to have a varied meta where every class has at least one build run on a meta level. Every other build that can be run as a side grade to the other in the context of PvP is gravy. Tasty gravy, but gravy. And the dream of a meta where everything is run at similarly effectiveness is a Utopian pipe dream.

 

At the end of the day, if one build is overperforming, the build should be adjusted. Almost by definition, builds that barely see play getting nerfed as a result of collateral damage will negatively impact less players compared to than letting over performing builds run wild.

 

To use an extreme example, a core condition engineer getting nerfed, basically impacts no one in this game. Almost no one is playing that build, almost no one will play it after that nerfing. It really doesn't impact anyone in the grand scheme of things. Now, you shouldn't go around nerfing unused builds for the sake of kicking someone while they're down. But if a meta build abuses a core aspect and as a result is massively overperforming, then sadly the core ability needs to get nerfed for the sake of creating a healthier meta. It sucks, it's not fun for anyone, but it's what's actually important for the most number of players because one build running wild impacts everyone. The five or so core engineers caught in the crossfire are substantially less people and the needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few, which is why Auto S had to be nerfed even if Core Engineers running the trait and utility combo to double up on S weren't exactly breaking the game.

 

Also condition mirage shouldn't stand a chance against a boonbeast. Nothing can beat a Boonbeast 1v1. And don't just take my word for it. Godsofpvp.net where many literally top rated players get together to post meta builds and guides straight up says it's undoubtedly the best 1v1 spec in the game.

 

The thing that separates Boonbeast from Spellbreaker, Holosmith, SD Weaver, Mirage is that Boonbeast doesn't actually need to avoid skills or even skillfully heal to be bunkery. Spellbreakers going into rampage at in opportune times, or failing to properly utilize their defensive capabilities will die. Hard. Same with SD Weaver. Same with Holosmith and Mirage though Holosmith and Mirage do have serious recovery potential with Elixir S and Distortion+Stealth.

 

Boonbeast on the other hand doesn't have to play skillfully. They don't have to properly wield their defensive skills. They can literally fail all their dodges, have their resistance stripped from them repeatedly, and eat tons and tons of attacks and still be under zero threat of death. Heck, they don't even bother actively trying to heal for the sake of healing. They just spam Troll Unguent off cooldown for the muddy terrain and because they're so unthreatened by literally anything trying to attack them.

 

And Consume Plasma has always been extremely overtuned. Just compare the rest of thieve's stolen skills from other classes, it's not even close.