Teratus.2859 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 > @"Mickey Frogeater.1470" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > @"Arden.7480" said: > > > > Does it even matter? > > > > > > > > The thing that surprised me was this very complex chapter with Zafirah, that made me very emotional- the Priest and Priestess of Balthazar thought that with their God they can achieve something glorious. Zafirah said that he changed, that he was not how she remembered him, like it was completely somebody else: "I remember him differently." > > > > > > > > The priests and priestesses can really have the contact with their gods, and Zafirah must have met him before he was chained in the Mists - for example the priestess of Grenth in the end of Personal story summoned Grenth's Avatar to seek Grenth's wisdom in person. > > > > > > > > Also I'm starting to think that Kasmeer was the one that made Kormir stay longer than the Gods, because Kasmeer has always had the strongest connection to her - Kasmeer's ability to detect lies maybe wasn't rooted in Kormir's blessing, but the way Kasmeer cherished the truth, THE Truth must have made Kormir impressed. She stayed only for Kasmeer, and wanted to say personal good bye to her. > > > > > > > > So that's another proof Zafirah had the personal contact with Balthazar, before he was 'abated' and 'dimmed'. > > > > > > > > Also if it wasn't stated that Balthazar was truely Balthazar, If I'd get this line in PoF in the beginning of the story, I'd start to think: maybe it's not Balthazar then... Is it Menzies? > > > > > > > > But not. He was Balthazar, and he failed many of his followers, including Zafirah- poor and desperate soul, full of grief. > > > > > > > > Zafirah got a phenomenal introduction to the story, and I think she and Caithe may find some common believes. Because they both crossed the commander, and the Commander showed them mercy, it must be the thief inside of them that make them so reckless, and how easily they fall for their first thoughts, instead of thought everything out. > > > > > > > > Zafirah and Caithe as the partners in crime? That'd be awesome! :D > > > > > > > > Also to me the words that Kari said in her Behind the Voice vid got another meaning (sorry I am keep relating to it), but Kari said: > > > > > > > > "We never know if she's going to help us or lead us astray. **We never know who she's going to love**. She's just very very enigmatic" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > EDIT: God, my running out of topic thing is on the loose again! Sorry! > > > > > > I would like to think that perhaps when Balthazar finally defeated Menzies, that he absorbed his energy and perhaps part of his personality, to some what make Balthazar go down a darker path. That being said Menzies was an ally of Abbadon and could somewhat explain, why Balthazar decisions were similar with Abaddon, if Menzies shared the same goals. > > > > Nah.. Balthazar has always been a firebrand God.. He's the God of War after all. > > Makes sense the God of War would have a keen interest in actual war right? > > Honor, power, battle.. these are all things he values and see's greatness in.. likewise he despises cowards. > > There was no way Balthazar was going to tuck his sword between his legs and run away from the most glorious battle in history with foes as powerful as the Elder Dragons. > > His attitude and behavior are pretty much right on the money tbh.. When the Gods decided to leave and not get involved they severely offended the God of War.. it's completely understandable that he would then see them as cowards and decide to go rogue. > > Thier decision to then strip him of his title and divinity was more than enough to push him over the edge and blind him in a relentless rage. > > And his being left with the Mirror of Lyssa for centuries made it easy for him to throw away his honor and pride in order to escape from his chains! The Mirror of Lyssa corrupted the imprisoned Balthazar from a principled warmonger into an honorless schemer through it's presence tempting him with means of escape over the centuries. > > Of course being a honorable man until recently Balthazar lacked the intelligence to pull off his second and more elaborate scheme. He should have passed himself off as a Mursaat **_other_** than Lazarus the Dire and researched the Mursaat's history to gain better understanding on what he is impersonating in order to better convince the White Mantle to aid him. Since he'd be looking at all Mursaat history he would discover the Mursaat's own desire to fight the Elder Dragons and be given more than enough reason to revive Lazarus himself and secretly let him in on his secret identity! He didn't throw away his honor tbh.. not from his point of view anyway. The illusion he created wasn't for our benefit.. as we saw after he was exposed he was able to rally a lot of loyal followers to join his army as well as mercs. The illusion was more to hide his presence from the other gods and to keep them thinking he was still safely locked up in the mists. He choose to replicate Lazarus purely for strategic purposes I think.. to quickly obtain an army of fanatics who would blindly follow and die for him and Lazarus specifically being the only known Murzaat left. Had we not uncovered his real identity it's very likely Balthazar would not have taken the extreme path he did.. he probably would have maintained the facade a lot longer until he was able to convince us to do things his way, He did want us as allies until we betrayed him, though he would have likely betrayed us when it was most beneficial to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Ansari.1604 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > @"Mickey Frogeater.1470" said: > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > @"Arden.7480" said: > > > > > Does it even matter? > > > > > > > > > > The thing that surprised me was this very complex chapter with Zafirah, that made me very emotional- the Priest and Priestess of Balthazar thought that with their God they can achieve something glorious. Zafirah said that he changed, that he was not how she remembered him, like it was completely somebody else: "I remember him differently." > > > > > > > > > > The priests and priestesses can really have the contact with their gods, and Zafirah must have met him before he was chained in the Mists - for example the priestess of Grenth in the end of Personal story summoned Grenth's Avatar to seek Grenth's wisdom in person. > > > > > > > > > > Also I'm starting to think that Kasmeer was the one that made Kormir stay longer than the Gods, because Kasmeer has always had the strongest connection to her - Kasmeer's ability to detect lies maybe wasn't rooted in Kormir's blessing, but the way Kasmeer cherished the truth, THE Truth must have made Kormir impressed. She stayed only for Kasmeer, and wanted to say personal good bye to her. > > > > > > > > > > So that's another proof Zafirah had the personal contact with Balthazar, before he was 'abated' and 'dimmed'. > > > > > > > > > > Also if it wasn't stated that Balthazar was truely Balthazar, If I'd get this line in PoF in the beginning of the story, I'd start to think: maybe it's not Balthazar then... Is it Menzies? > > > > > > > > > > But not. He was Balthazar, and he failed many of his followers, including Zafirah- poor and desperate soul, full of grief. > > > > > > > > > > Zafirah got a phenomenal introduction to the story, and I think she and Caithe may find some common believes. Because they both crossed the commander, and the Commander showed them mercy, it must be the thief inside of them that make them so reckless, and how easily they fall for their first thoughts, instead of thought everything out. > > > > > > > > > > Zafirah and Caithe as the partners in crime? That'd be awesome! :D > > > > > > > > > > Also to me the words that Kari said in her Behind the Voice vid got another meaning (sorry I am keep relating to it), but Kari said: > > > > > > > > > > "We never know if she's going to help us or lead us astray. **We never know who she's going to love**. She's just very very enigmatic" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > EDIT: God, my running out of topic thing is on the loose again! Sorry! > > > > > > > > I would like to think that perhaps when Balthazar finally defeated Menzies, that he absorbed his energy and perhaps part of his personality, to some what make Balthazar go down a darker path. That being said Menzies was an ally of Abbadon and could somewhat explain, why Balthazar decisions were similar with Abaddon, if Menzies shared the same goals. > > > > > > Nah.. Balthazar has always been a firebrand God.. He's the God of War after all. > > > Makes sense the God of War would have a keen interest in actual war right? > > > Honor, power, battle.. these are all things he values and see's greatness in.. likewise he despises cowards. > > > There was no way Balthazar was going to tuck his sword between his legs and run away from the most glorious battle in history with foes as powerful as the Elder Dragons. > > > His attitude and behavior are pretty much right on the money tbh.. When the Gods decided to leave and not get involved they severely offended the God of War.. it's completely understandable that he would then see them as cowards and decide to go rogue. > > > Thier decision to then strip him of his title and divinity was more than enough to push him over the edge and blind him in a relentless rage. > > > > And his being left with the Mirror of Lyssa for centuries made it easy for him to throw away his honor and pride in order to escape from his chains! The Mirror of Lyssa corrupted the imprisoned Balthazar from a principled warmonger into an honorless schemer through it's presence tempting him with means of escape over the centuries. > > > > Of course being a honorable man until recently Balthazar lacked the intelligence to pull off his second and more elaborate scheme. He should have passed himself off as a Mursaat **_other_** than Lazarus the Dire and researched the Mursaat's history to gain better understanding on what he is impersonating in order to better convince the White Mantle to aid him. Since he'd be looking at all Mursaat history he would discover the Mursaat's own desire to fight the Elder Dragons and be given more than enough reason to revive Lazarus himself and secretly let him in on his secret identity! > > He didn't throw away his honor tbh.. not from his point of view anyway. > The illusion he created wasn't for our benefit.. as we saw after he was exposed he was able to rally a lot of loyal followers to join his army as well as mercs. > The illusion was more to hide his presence from the other gods and to keep them thinking he was still safely locked up in the mists. > He choose to replicate Lazarus purely for strategic purposes I think.. to quickly obtain an army of fanatics who would blindly follow and die for him and Lazarus specifically being the only known Murzaat left. > > Had we not uncovered his real identity it's very likely Balthazar would not have taken the extreme path he did.. he probably would have maintained the facade a lot longer until he was able to convince us to do things his way, He did want us as allies until we betrayed him, though he would have likely betrayed us when it was most beneficial to him. He probably wouldn't have had the Forged massacring villages, but he _would_ have still willingly caused the destruction of all Tyria. That seems pretty extreme to me. In a world where Caudecus didn't tip us off and Taimi didn't build her dragon-killer... I think the most likely result would be Balthazar limiting his interaction with us as much as possible, unless circumstances developed where he absolutely needed the strength of the Pact to secure a kill. We kinda saw that happening already in Flashpoint, with him building his own base and army unilaterally, and much too close to Primordus to bring in reinforcements if things took a bad turn. I'm not sure how he intended to kill the dragon, but he clearly had some kind of plan- maybe that's where the Inquest were supposed to come in. If that plan had worked, the world might've been pushed past the tipping point without our ever seeing 'Lazarus' again after Tarir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 > @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"Mickey Frogeater.1470" said: > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > @"Arden.7480" said: > > > > > > Does it even matter? > > > > > > > > > > > > The thing that surprised me was this very complex chapter with Zafirah, that made me very emotional- the Priest and Priestess of Balthazar thought that with their God they can achieve something glorious. Zafirah said that he changed, that he was not how she remembered him, like it was completely somebody else: "I remember him differently." > > > > > > > > > > > > The priests and priestesses can really have the contact with their gods, and Zafirah must have met him before he was chained in the Mists - for example the priestess of Grenth in the end of Personal story summoned Grenth's Avatar to seek Grenth's wisdom in person. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also I'm starting to think that Kasmeer was the one that made Kormir stay longer than the Gods, because Kasmeer has always had the strongest connection to her - Kasmeer's ability to detect lies maybe wasn't rooted in Kormir's blessing, but the way Kasmeer cherished the truth, THE Truth must have made Kormir impressed. She stayed only for Kasmeer, and wanted to say personal good bye to her. > > > > > > > > > > > > So that's another proof Zafirah had the personal contact with Balthazar, before he was 'abated' and 'dimmed'. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also if it wasn't stated that Balthazar was truely Balthazar, If I'd get this line in PoF in the beginning of the story, I'd start to think: maybe it's not Balthazar then... Is it Menzies? > > > > > > > > > > > > But not. He was Balthazar, and he failed many of his followers, including Zafirah- poor and desperate soul, full of grief. > > > > > > > > > > > > Zafirah got a phenomenal introduction to the story, and I think she and Caithe may find some common believes. Because they both crossed the commander, and the Commander showed them mercy, it must be the thief inside of them that make them so reckless, and how easily they fall for their first thoughts, instead of thought everything out. > > > > > > > > > > > > Zafirah and Caithe as the partners in crime? That'd be awesome! :D > > > > > > > > > > > > Also to me the words that Kari said in her Behind the Voice vid got another meaning (sorry I am keep relating to it), but Kari said: > > > > > > > > > > > > "We never know if she's going to help us or lead us astray. **We never know who she's going to love**. She's just very very enigmatic" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > EDIT: God, my running out of topic thing is on the loose again! Sorry! > > > > > > > > > > I would like to think that perhaps when Balthazar finally defeated Menzies, that he absorbed his energy and perhaps part of his personality, to some what make Balthazar go down a darker path. That being said Menzies was an ally of Abbadon and could somewhat explain, why Balthazar decisions were similar with Abaddon, if Menzies shared the same goals. > > > > > > > > Nah.. Balthazar has always been a firebrand God.. He's the God of War after all. > > > > Makes sense the God of War would have a keen interest in actual war right? > > > > Honor, power, battle.. these are all things he values and see's greatness in.. likewise he despises cowards. > > > > There was no way Balthazar was going to tuck his sword between his legs and run away from the most glorious battle in history with foes as powerful as the Elder Dragons. > > > > His attitude and behavior are pretty much right on the money tbh.. When the Gods decided to leave and not get involved they severely offended the God of War.. it's completely understandable that he would then see them as cowards and decide to go rogue. > > > > Thier decision to then strip him of his title and divinity was more than enough to push him over the edge and blind him in a relentless rage. > > > > > > And his being left with the Mirror of Lyssa for centuries made it easy for him to throw away his honor and pride in order to escape from his chains! The Mirror of Lyssa corrupted the imprisoned Balthazar from a principled warmonger into an honorless schemer through it's presence tempting him with means of escape over the centuries. > > > > > > Of course being a honorable man until recently Balthazar lacked the intelligence to pull off his second and more elaborate scheme. He should have passed himself off as a Mursaat **_other_** than Lazarus the Dire and researched the Mursaat's history to gain better understanding on what he is impersonating in order to better convince the White Mantle to aid him. Since he'd be looking at all Mursaat history he would discover the Mursaat's own desire to fight the Elder Dragons and be given more than enough reason to revive Lazarus himself and secretly let him in on his secret identity! > > > > He didn't throw away his honor tbh.. not from his point of view anyway. > > The illusion he created wasn't for our benefit.. as we saw after he was exposed he was able to rally a lot of loyal followers to join his army as well as mercs. > > The illusion was more to hide his presence from the other gods and to keep them thinking he was still safely locked up in the mists. > > He choose to replicate Lazarus purely for strategic purposes I think.. to quickly obtain an army of fanatics who would blindly follow and die for him and Lazarus specifically being the only known Murzaat left. > > > > Had we not uncovered his real identity it's very likely Balthazar would not have taken the extreme path he did.. he probably would have maintained the facade a lot longer until he was able to convince us to do things his way, He did want us as allies until we betrayed him, though he would have likely betrayed us when it was most beneficial to him. > > He probably wouldn't have had the Forged massacring villages, but he _would_ have still willingly caused the destruction of all Tyria. That seems pretty extreme to me. > > In a world where Caudecus didn't tip us off and Taimi didn't build her dragon-killer... I think the most likely result would be Balthazar limiting his interaction with us as much as possible, unless circumstances developed where he absolutely needed the strength of the Pact to secure a kill. We kinda saw that happening already in Flashpoint, with him building his own base and army unilaterally, and much too close to Primordus to bring in reinforcements if things took a bad turn. I'm not sure how he intended to kill the dragon, but he clearly had some kind of plan- maybe that's where the Inquest were supposed to come in. If that plan had worked, the world might've been pushed past the tipping point without our ever seeing 'Lazarus' again after Tarir. Yeah but he likely would have tried to convince everyone that it was the best course rather than going full tyrant. He may have later revealed himself intentionally to bolster that morale, saying things like those who fight with me will be hailed for all eternity as Tyrias greatest heroes etc. He was a god after all so he probably planned something like that eventually, to dupe the world into following him and destroying themselves. It did kind of happen after he was exposed too.. many faithful instantly bent the knee to him upon his reveal to the world.. the one god who returned to fight with them while the others fled. It was an easy way for him to manipulate people.. it's no wonder so many willingly became Forged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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