Teratus.2859

Why you feel like a perv?.. just a few plant people having a drink :P

> @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > @"yoni.7015" said: > > > > > > > > @"Zoid.2568" said: > > > > > > > > > @"yoni.7015" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Zoid.2568" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"yoni.7015" said: > > > > > > > > > > > No thanks, underwater combat is no fun. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They can make it fun with a revamp. > > > > > > > > > No, they can’t and they don’t have to. Just leave it like it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So leave ít boring when ít can be fixed?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will stay boring and the majority of players don’t like underwater content. So why waste resources on something only a very small minority enjoys? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fair enough, then lets get rid of Raids, PvP, WvW, Fractals and Strike missions then because only a minority of players enjoy those as well. > > > > > > 100% focus from here on out only on PvE story.. > > > > > > Lets also get rid of the most underused/underpowered classes as well and stop making new specs for them.. since that's a waste of resources as well. > > > > > > > > > > ...but he didn't say "remove underwater combat", right? How is this even remotely valid comparison when you're suddenly talking about removing existing content? > > > > > Now if you want to talk about raids, pvp, wvw, fractals and strike missions in context of "leaving it how it is" then... that's mostly what is actually happening. > > > > > > > > > > And I agree with yoni, I don't like underwater combat and don't want much/anything to do with it. Not even mentioning "underwater only especs" or mass underwater skill rework, while the regular skills AND traits still need the revamp. > > > > > > > > Already explained it in my last post in reference to what Yoni said was a "waste of resources" > > > > > > Didn't notice that before, but after reading that explanation -which I'm not sure I understood correctly- you've pretty much agreed that it's an irrelevant comparison ("*Removing the classes would be a waste though*" and removing IS what you were talking about), right? Ok then. > > > > > Yeah but only removing the classes part, the reason still stands for everything else I said to jokingly get rid of as they require resources to keep in the game.. server costs etc so their existence by the same logic Yoni was using is a waste of said resources because only a minority of players enjoy them. > > See... you seem to "admit it's different", but then circle right back into "it's the same logic" -the whole point is that it's by far NOT. ^^ > It's irrelevant if it's played by minority or not, nobody brought up removal of anything, but you and that just doesn't stand as a comparison at all. > No I didn't. The "same logic" here is that Yoni's argument is based on revamping and upgrading underwater gameplay is a "waste of resources" because "only a minority enjoys it" The other comparison's I made are based on the exact same argument.. they cost resources to exist and only a minority enjoys them.. therefore they should be removed from the game to save resources, an overall net gain in the long term. The only difference between those forms of content in the context of the argument is that underwater content does not require additional resources to exist because it's directly tied into commonly used PvE maps, it would cost more resources to remove it, same as removing professions would.. ergo an overall net loss. > > > > It's fine if you don't like underwater content, though if you don't mind answering, why don't you like it? > > > > Do you just dislike the concept of it? or do you just not find it fun because of the lack of build diversity and skills and weapons you can use there?.. too restrictive etc. > > > > > > It feels bad, out of place and I don't see the reason for it in most cases other than some limited cheesy content that you might get into *once in a while* at best, for which current version of aquatic combat is enough. I doubt reworking traits/weapons/adding 5 *(<- random number :D )* more skills that are currently unavailable per class would change anything about that. > > > > A lot of why it feels bad though is because of how limited it is, how few weapons you can have and how a number of skills or even entire class mechanics are crippled and unusable there. > > I disagree. It feels bad, because it feels bad. If I had 5 different weapons and a few trap skills (oof) available to pick from, it wouldn't suddenly make that combat "feel better" for me. So no, as I said in my previous post, I don't think that's the issue and subsequentially the way to suddenly make me like it. > That's fine then, although "it feels bad" isn't a very descriptive for why you dislike it. It seems your stance is simply you don't like it and you don't want to like it.. and honestly I can respect that because I do the same thing with a lot of things I don't like as well, it's a normal, natural response to things you find unpleasent. Although the bitter reality with that attitude is often your opinions end up being disregarded on those subjects.. I've been there plenty of times myself as well so I get it. > > Another issue is the lack of big content there which is linked to the above problem.. can't exactly have big awesome world bosses and bounties etc there when the combat is so lacking compared to the land. > > Again, I disagree. "Having big content there" is not a way to make me like underwater combat. It's the way to make me **dislike that "big content there"**, which is also why I don't want that content. > Maybe not for you but it would for others, the point is though that it doesn't exist.. at least with Raids and Fractals and WvW etc people can try it and then say yay or nay based on whether they like it. Underwater however has not been given the same fair shot. The sad part is it was apparently supposed to, the Vanilla game did get a chunk of content cut and one of the things that was apparently cut was an underwater world boss. There were also supposed to be Manta enemies or creatures in the game too https://imgur.com/TiYlqVl which share a lot of similarities with the Skimmer mount so it's a fair assumption this design was repurposed or used to inspire the Skimmer's design. > > > If people want to push for weapon/skill/trait reworks, then push for the land versions, because some of them are outdated, bugged, unusable or intentionally gutted to -maybe- wait for a rework. > > > Why would you want or need aquatic combat? Just for that vertical movement that in reality changes nothing? > > > > Pushing for weapons and reworks benefits both land and water combat > > I don't think pushing for water combat revamp somehow begefits land combat tbh. Unless you mean removal of the skills that don't work underwater and in this way it influences the land combat, at which point... no, thanks. > As I went on to mention the addition of land weapons becoming usable underwater would require a change to certain things in the game that could swing both ways. It is extremely unlikely this change would ever happen if the focus was on giving underwater weapons to land builds, but it would be likely to happen if it was a large project to improve the underwater combat. > >one of the things many including myself have asked for is for more land weapons to become usable underwater which would greatly improve the combat there, if this ever became reality it would work in reverse as well with Spear and Trident becoming possible new land weapons. > > People are always asking for more new weapons types like spears and polearms but it's impossible to start throwing whole new ones in at this point in the game, but making some water ones usable on land would be a way they could do that and have a wide array of skins available for them. > > Not much against some of the water weapons becoming available on land for some especs as a stylistycal choice, but I also don't see it as anything absolutely needed, seeing how I think anet already proved they can give any weapon any role/playstyle/mechanic/range they want (I'm also fine with that). So kind of "meh" either way here, but I know some warriors want land spear and who am I to be against that :D > That said, making those available on land has nothing to do with revamping underwater combat. It would -probably- still be *a different spear with different skillset* in both environments. > But it would be the same weapon therefore it would have access to all the existing skins, that is largely the main problem regarding Anet adding in entirely new weapon types despite years of people asking for Polearms, Spears and Scythes etc.. you'd have an extremely small list of skins to chose from compared to all the old weapons and that gap would never close, Anet simply do not want to do that. The way Gw2 is setup right now crossing the weapons can't be done.. something about underwater and land weapons functioning different or something I guess, i'm not an Anet dev so I can't say for sure but Devs have said in the past that it would take a lot of work to cross the weapons like that and they just don't have a good enough reason to do it which is why they haven't done it. That's why it's unlikely to happen just for Warriors to get land Spear's even though it's a great weapon choice for them to have and a lot of people want it. It would need a big reason to justify that kind of thing see, that's why if the focus was to add and expand the underwater content with a ton of land weapons it would be far more likely to happen as the same changes that would allow for you to use a Sword or a Dagger underwater would also allow for a Spear or Trident to be used on land with a lot less effort involved. > > As for me I like the atmosphere of underwater regions, it's different and a change of pace from always being stuck on land. > > That atmosphere is not enough for me to like a combat system -I'd even want that IF I wanted to go sightseeing underwater, the combat just gets in the way, but apparently it all comes down to personal preferentions, so to each their own :p > Aye it's mostly a preference thing. Although the combat is the same.. really the only difference mechanically is the vertical aspect as you yourself said before. In terms of actual combat gameplay the lack of skills plays a lot into why underwater content turns many away. The easiest way to give an example of that is to just imagine if your favourite class only had 2-3 land weapon sets.. Lets use Warrior for an analogy here.. what if Warrior only had a Hammer and a Rifle.. with the same skills and stats etc etc it does now and couldn't use anything else.. but all the other classes are exactly the same as they are now? People would completely trash the warrior class, call it garbage and useless and they would hate playing it because there would be just too big a difference between a Warrior and all the other classes. That is pretty much the exactly what happens when people compare Underwater and Land combat in Gw2, There's just to big a gap between the two because one has been so heavily neglected while the other has had years and years of attention and refinement. Sure there will always be those who just hate the concept of the Warrior and would never play it even if it got upgraded to be on par with the other classes but there are a lot of people who would be willing to give it that chance. > > I like the combat there and as far as underwater content goes and by extent vertical combat in general there are no MMO's out there that do it anywhere near as good as Gw2 does. > > There was aion, I've played it and my opinion about the flying combat (slap wings on underwater combat, get rid of *water color filter* and you have flying btw) waas similar to underwater combat here. Just didn't like it (but also it might have been even slightly less reliable). I'm no the one to decide whether I'm correct or not, but it didn't seem like a lot of people valued vertical combat as well. For me it's an unneeded gimmick that adds pretty much nothing and has no actual value -whether you run/chase in a straight line or diagonally makes pretty much no difference for the practical ingame combat reasons. > I played Aion as well.. and yes while Vertical combat was a thing there it is no contest between which game did it better lol Gw2 is far more modern though and has one of the best combat systems of any MMO on the market today so it's not really a fair comparison. Aion really didn't go into the vertical stuff much either, the vast majority of the game had flying and vertical combat disabled which was such a shame in a game that was literally advertised on you being able to fly. > > Gw2 by far has the best underwater system in any MMO.. and it's painful to see that it doesn't take advantage of that. > > ...I don't know about that, I don't see anything exceptional in it? > Again I would blame that on it's potential not being tapped. It's really the same as the land combat, has all the same potential.. if only it were tapped. If you love the land combat in Gw2 then really you're looking at what underwater could be if it had the same care put into it. > >a crippled build system and far too many pointless limitations.. it has so much potential but Anet have not brought it out. > > Again, I don't see that potential. Adding vertical movement just adds no value for me and that's about most of what underwater combat does. But maybe I'm still missing it, what exactly is that "potential" here? Second weapon/utility skillset? Meh. Add more (actually don't add, just rework *whatever aged badly*) to land battles where most people spend most of their time. > It's the same as the land combat, the strength of GW2's combat system is in it's build system.. how you set your traits, what skills and weapons you use, how you customise your stats and gear and all of that designed to work together with your skill as a player to make you a force to be reckoned with in the world. The underwater content is crippled in that regard because of the lack of weapons and skills you can use, that in turn diminishes the effectiveness of some traits or in some cases makes them completely or nearly completely redundant. Overall it strongly restricts the effective build diversity potential you have access to in this content and that is one major reason why Underwater content is looked down on compared to land content.. it's just "not as good" but it's the same combat system, the potential is there it's just untapped, the land combat proves that. You could have the same level of combat quality underwater in Gw2 as you can on land, and that's what we want and why so many of us keep calling for these underwater reworks. Now has never been a better time to do this either since we're finally going to be dealing with the Deep Sea Dragon in End of Dragons. And that will be a major disappointment if it ends up being fought and killed on the land. > > And considering the fact that one of this games main antagonists is a gigantic water dragon.. and we'll be going after it soon, it will be a major disappointment if the Water content continues to get so neglected. > > Well, hopefully it learns how to fly, because I don't want to go down there. > > ...or at least crawl out on a beach *or something*? Hahaha that's exactly what I don't want to happen XD Going deep down in the ocean and having full water maps is way too much as well, as much as i'd personally enjoy them there does have to be some limits. But they could do some really awesome things with this dragon involving both combat styles and I so hope they do. Fighting it just on land would be such a disappointment.. it's a water dragon, it should have something water combat related.. that should go without saying really.

> @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > @"yoni.7015" said: > > > > > > @"Zoid.2568" said: > > > > > > > @"yoni.7015" said: > > > > > > > > @"Zoid.2568" said: > > > > > > > > > @"yoni.7015" said: > > > > > > > > > No thanks, underwater combat is no fun. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They can make it fun with a revamp. > > > > > > > No, they can’t and they don’t have to. Just leave it like it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So leave ít boring when ít can be fixed?? > > > > > > > > > > It will stay boring and the majority of players don’t like underwater content. So why waste resources on something only a very small minority enjoys? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fair enough, then lets get rid of Raids, PvP, WvW, Fractals and Strike missions then because only a minority of players enjoy those as well. > > > > 100% focus from here on out only on PvE story.. > > > > Lets also get rid of the most underused/underpowered classes as well and stop making new specs for them.. since that's a waste of resources as well. > > > > > > ...but he didn't say "remove underwater combat", right? How is this even remotely valid comparison when you're suddenly talking about removing existing content? > > > Now if you want to talk about raids, pvp, wvw, fractals and strike missions in context of "leaving it how it is" then... that's mostly what is actually happening. > > > > > > And I agree with yoni, I don't like underwater combat and don't want much/anything to do with it. Not even mentioning "underwater only especs" or mass underwater skill rework, while the regular skills AND traits still need the revamp. > > > > Already explained it in my last post in reference to what Yoni said was a "waste of resources" > > Didn't notice that before, but after reading that explanation -which I'm not sure I understood correctly- you've pretty much agreed that it's an irrelevant comparison ("*Removing the classes would be a waste though*" and removing IS what you were talking about), right? Ok then. > Yeah but only removing the classes part, the reason still stands for everything else I said to jokingly get rid of as they require resources to keep in the game.. server costs etc so their existence by the same logic Yoni was using is a waste of said resources because only a minority of players enjoy them. > > It's fine if you don't like underwater content, though if you don't mind answering, why don't you like it? > > Do you just dislike the concept of it? or do you just not find it fun because of the lack of build diversity and skills and weapons you can use there?.. too restrictive etc. > > It feels bad, out of place and I don't see the reason for it in most cases other than some limited cheesy content that you might get into *once in a while* at best, for which current version of aquatic combat is enough. I doubt reworking traits/weapons/adding 5 *(<- random number :D )* more skills that are currently unavailable per class would change anything about that. A lot of why it feels bad though is because of how limited it is, how few weapons you can have and how a number of skills or even entire class mechanics are crippled and unusable there. Good example of that is Revenant which can't access 3 of it's total Legend's while it's underwater including the exclusive Renegade Legend which is ridiculous. Another issue is the lack of big content there which is linked to the above problem.. can't exactly have big awesome world bosses and bounties etc there when the combat is so lacking compared to the land. > If people want to push for weapon/skill/trait reworks, then push for the land versions, because some of them are outdated, bugged, unusable or intentionally gutted to -maybe- wait for a rework. > Why would you want or need aquatic combat? Just for that vertical movement that in reality changes nothing? Pushing for weapons and reworks benefits both land and water combat, one of the things many including myself have asked for is for more land weapons to become usable underwater which would greatly improve the combat there, if this ever became reality it would work in reverse as well with Spear and Trident becoming possible new land weapons. People are always asking for more new weapons types like spears and polearms but it's impossible to start throwing whole new ones in at this point in the game, but making some water ones usable on land would be a way they could do that and have a wide array of skins available for them. As for me I like the atmosphere of underwater regions, it's different and a change of pace from always being stuck on land. I like the combat there and as far as underwater content goes and by extent vertical combat in general there are no MMO's out there that do it anywhere near as good as Gw2 does. Gw2 by far has the best underwater system in any MMO.. and it's painful to see that it doesn't take advantage of that. No underwater world bosses.. a crippled build system and far too many pointless limitations.. it has so much potential but Anet have not brought it out. And considering the fact that one of this games main antagonists is a gigantic water dragon.. and we'll be going after it soon, it will be a major disappointment if the Water content continues to get so neglected.

> @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"yoni.7015" said: > > > > @"Zoid.2568" said: > > > > > @"yoni.7015" said: > > > > > > @"Zoid.2568" said: > > > > > > > @"yoni.7015" said: > > > > > > > No thanks, underwater combat is no fun. > > > > > > > > > > > > They can make it fun with a revamp. > > > > > No, they can’t and they don’t have to. Just leave it like it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So leave ít boring when ít can be fixed?? > > > > > > It will stay boring and the majority of players don’t like underwater content. So why waste resources on something only a very small minority enjoys? > > > > > > > Fair enough, then lets get rid of Raids, PvP, WvW, Fractals and Strike missions then because only a minority of players enjoy those as well. > > 100% focus from here on out only on PvE story.. > > Lets also get rid of the most underused/underpowered classes as well and stop making new specs for them.. since that's a waste of resources as well. > > ...but he didn't say "remove underwater combat", right? How is this even remotely valid comparison when you're suddenly talking about removing existing content? > Now if you want to talk about raids, pvp, wvw, fractals and strike missions in context of "leaving it how it is" then... that's mostly what is actually happening. > > And I agree with yoni, I don't like underwater combat and don't want much/anything to do with it. Not even mentioning "underwater only especs" or mass underwater skill rework, while the regular skills AND traits still need the revamp. Already explained it in my last post in reference to what Yoni said was a "waste of resources" It's fine if you don't like underwater content, though if you don't mind answering, why don't you like it? Do you just dislike the concept of it? or do you just not find it fun because of the lack of build diversity and skills and weapons you can use there?.. too restrictive etc.

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"Fueki.4753" said: > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > Every idea I see that proposes a "fix" for Hundred Blade is often just "make it mobile".. I can understand this but it would look pretty stupid if you were running around flailing a GS around like that lol > > > Since most Greatsword skins look stupid anyway, that flailing while running should be no problem. > > > > Lol you're not wrong XD > > > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > I much preferred how Hundred Blades functioned back in Gw1 but alas we have what we have. > > > > > > > > Every idea I see that proposes a "fix" for Hundred Blade is often just "make it mobile".. I can understand this but it would look pretty stupid if you were running around flailing a GS around like that lol > > > > > > > > I think a better solution would be to rework Hundred Blades so it functions more like Reapers Death Spiral or Rangers Hunters Call. > > > > > > > > Death Spiral is a really good skill that hits for x6 in a single second which is only two less than Hundred Blades hits for over 3 and a half seconds so this is definitely practical for a rework of Hundred Blades. > > > > The problem is though if it functioned like this it would be such a massive damage spike in a very short period of time so it would either need a long and thus predictable cast time or a heavy damage and CD reduction to make it not ridiculously OP.. > > > I'm okay with a massive damage spike. > > > Nothing stopping Anet from making said damage spike conditional though. Like have it be 6 hits, dealing 0.2 scaling per hit, but if they strike a CC'd target they do 0.5 scaling. > > > > I'm mainly trying to avoid a big nerf to the max dmg output of Hundred Blades which I feel would be a certainty if they made it function exactly like Death Spiral. > > Hundred Blades is a really hard hitting skill with a long cast time trade off as well as a placement lock. > > Cutting the 3 and a half second cast time to 1 second but still having the x8 critable strikes would be such a huge amount of damage inflicted in such a short time.. it would probably become an insta kill skill against many in the PvP scene. > > Nerfs would certainly be called for in that case I'd bet. > Blurred Frenzy deals 8 strikes in one second, it has meh damage but that is because it also evades during that time, so it is overloaded from a competitive viewpoint. Giving 100B a 1s cast time for 8 hits without evade frames is perfectly reasonable for at least a moderate damage ability, and if it has a very obvious windup animation then it definitely deserves high damage. When I was thinking about it I was thinking more a quick horizontal slice animation. It could work with a buildup though but if it's too easy to see coming it'll never be that viable in competitive as people will always be watching for it.

> @"yoni.7015" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"yoni.7015" said: > > > > @"Zoid.2568" said: > > > > > @"yoni.7015" said: > > > > > > @"Zoid.2568" said: > > > > > > > @"yoni.7015" said: > > > > > > > No thanks, underwater combat is no fun. > > > > > > > > > > > > They can make it fun with a revamp. > > > > > No, they can’t and they don’t have to. Just leave it like it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So leave ít boring when ít can be fixed?? > > > > > > It will stay boring and the majority of players don’t like underwater content. So why waste resources on something only a very small minority enjoys? > > > > > > > Fair enough, then lets get rid of Raids, PvP, WvW, Fractals and Strike missions then because only a minority of players enjoy those as well. > > 100% focus from here on out only on PvE story.. > > Lets also get rid of the most underused/underpowered classes as well and stop making new specs for them.. since that's a waste of resources as well. > > That’s a terrible comparison but okay. > > Not entirely lol. All those game modes require their own server space so they're constantly costing resources to keep in the game unlike water content which is tied into a bunch of maps that would exist with or without it. Removing the classes would be a waste though but not developing new specs for them is pretty much on the line. Point was simple enough though, just because you don't like or use something doesn't make it a waste to improve it. One of the main reasons a lot of people don't like underwater content is because of how poor it is compared to the land content.. lack of weapons, skills and build diversity. More people would enjoy it if it had the same combat potential as the land combat does, maybe even the majority would. Can't please everyone though, some will hate it even if was better than land combat just because they don't care for the concept and that's fine.

> @"yoni.7015" said: > > @"Zoid.2568" said: > > > @"yoni.7015" said: > > > > @"Zoid.2568" said: > > > > > @"yoni.7015" said: > > > > > No thanks, underwater combat is no fun. > > > > > > > > They can make it fun with a revamp. > > > No, they can’t and they don’t have to. Just leave it like it is. > > > > > > > > > > So leave ít boring when ít can be fixed?? > > It will stay boring and the majority of players don’t like underwater content. So why waste resources on something only a very small minority enjoys? > Fair enough, then lets get rid of Raids, PvP, WvW, Fractals and Strike missions then because only a minority of players enjoy those as well. 100% focus from here on out only on PvE story.. Lets also get rid of the most underused/underpowered classes as well and stop making new specs for them.. since that's a waste of resources as well.

> @"Fueki.4753" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > Every idea I see that proposes a "fix" for Hundred Blade is often just "make it mobile".. I can understand this but it would look pretty stupid if you were running around flailing a GS around like that lol > Since most Greatsword skins look stupid anyway, that flailing while running should be no problem. Lol you're not wrong XD > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > I much preferred how Hundred Blades functioned back in Gw1 but alas we have what we have. > > > > Every idea I see that proposes a "fix" for Hundred Blade is often just "make it mobile".. I can understand this but it would look pretty stupid if you were running around flailing a GS around like that lol > > > > I think a better solution would be to rework Hundred Blades so it functions more like Reapers Death Spiral or Rangers Hunters Call. > > > > Death Spiral is a really good skill that hits for x6 in a single second which is only two less than Hundred Blades hits for over 3 and a half seconds so this is definitely practical for a rework of Hundred Blades. > > The problem is though if it functioned like this it would be such a massive damage spike in a very short period of time so it would either need a long and thus predictable cast time or a heavy damage and CD reduction to make it not ridiculously OP.. > I'm okay with a massive damage spike. > Nothing stopping Anet from making said damage spike conditional though. Like have it be 6 hits, dealing 0.2 scaling per hit, but if they strike a CC'd target they do 0.5 scaling. I'm mainly trying to avoid a big nerf to the max dmg output of Hundred Blades which I feel would be a certainty if they made it function exactly like Death Spiral. Hundred Blades is a really hard hitting skill with a long cast time trade off as well as a placement lock. Cutting the 3 and a half second cast time to 1 second but still having the x8 critable strikes would be such a huge amount of damage inflicted in such a short time.. it would probably become an insta kill skill against many in the PvP scene. Nerfs would certainly be called for in that case I'd bet. > > I could also see Hundred Blades working similarly to Hunters Call where you hit your target with a single hit and they continue to take damage over the next few seconds as a magical swords animation continues to strike at them.. > > Hunters call has 16 hits which is double Hundred Blades so this is certainly doable. > > But putting such a hard hitting debuff on a player like this would be pretty nuts.. probably really op with the Warrior still wailing on them as well.. So I expect again we'd see some heavy nerfs to Hundred Blades damage as a result of this kind of change. > Lets not do this one mkay? Haha no worries I wasn't entirely sold on this one either XD > > So both of them have merit but would likely warrant nerfs which we don't want.. so what if instead Hundred Blades actually functioned like both of them? > > I think this is actually the best solution to this problem, Hundred blades as we know is an x8 attack right.. so what if we split it in half. > > 4 hits get applied in a single swipe animation like how Death spiral works.. a 1 second cast time would suffice for this just like Death Spiral. > > The other 4 hits would then get applied in a ticking damage debuff like how Hunters Call works. > > The ticking part of the attack could be applied on the 4th hit of the attack as a reward for Warriors landing all 4 initial hits which would also give enemies the chance to evade the last 4 hits by avoiding the 4th attack with a well timed dodge. > > So you still get your 8 hits provided you can land the whole initial attack, but the enemy can also evade the ticking hits by avoiding the 4th attack and halfing the damage they take from your attack. > > The 3 and a half second cast time for 8 hits gets knocked down to 1 second cast time for 4 hits and if you land the 4th hit you get an additional 4 hits in unblockable ticking damage. > > > > Maybe.... > > Would this ticking damage be like Binding Blade in that it is power based 'condition' damage? Or would this be more like Guardian Focus 4 in that they can crit and be dodged while ticking? Warrior would be better served it that damage tick functioned like Ray of Judgement rather than Binding Blade. > > If they went with that idea I would think having it function like Ray of Judgement would be best, and here is why, even though it would be blockable, dodgeable, evadable, blindable, you could crit with it. We need to crit to generate might for healing and endurance. That is one of the current uses for 100B now since while you may not hit every attack it is a lot of strikes in a short time frame with which to generate might for healing and endurance. > > I would also expect the whole skill to cleave, so if that last hit hits multiple foes, then each foe gets that ticking critable damage. > > So, if you did something like EarthShaker+swap->100B or FC->100B then you could get that ticking damage on 3 targets potentially and have 3 sources of ticking might for healing and endurance. > > I'm okay with that idea, because Warrior needs buffing in some areas anyway, but let me ask if that sounds like it would be OP to you? Keep in mind that there would be counter play to that kind of skill, don't get hit by the 4th attack, and if you do you can still mitigate the ticking hits, but if the warrior gets that 4th hit in then they have ticking damage that will clear blind for them and have sources of might ticking for sustain. I didn't think about either Binding Blade of Ray of Judgement, only Hunters Call when I was writing that post as it's the skill I am more familiar with.. not a big Guardian player tbh. But to answer your questions.. Yes pretty much everything you said there is what I did have in mind when designing this new 100B skill. You would be able to crit on both the initial 4 hits and the 4 ticking damage hits afterwards just like you can on every strike of the existing skill. And it would also have the cleave as well being able to apply the ticking critable damage to multiple targets that you hit with the 4th strike. That's pretty much exactly what I had in mind yeah :)

> @"Lucio.4190" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > I think your problem OP isn't so much about the balance of PvE but more your own play habits. > > i'm not saying that there isn't a balance problem, we all know that some classes perform better than others that's just the nature of games with options like that. > > > > But if you're playing the same build and you are "bored" then that says to me that you don't actually enjoy playing that build and probably do so because it's the "optimal" or "meta" for your class and that fault is really on you then. > > > > I recommend watching this very recently uploaded video by Josh Strife Hayes, while the title is about game guides he actually gets into a lot about how games have fallen into a state of fun vs efficiency and how the more optimised you play the game the more fun you optimise out of the game which can be greatly applied to Gw2 and the meta culture that exists in this game which many people have often criticised and in some cases claimed is toxic or elitist.. this is especially prevalent in discussions surrounding raid content as anyone who's been in those kinds of threads has very likely seen very often in those discussions. > > > > > > > > As someone who has been an advocate in these forums for many years telling people to play Gw2 how they want to play and not how the meta culture tells them to play I have to agree with a lot of what he talks about in the video. > > > > So if you are bored OP.. then I strongly suggest you listen to people here who are advising you to change your build or try another class and make something that you enjoy playing instead of copying some build off some website that will let you hit the biggest numbers. > > The fun is in the journey not the ending and building your own builds is far far more enjoyable than just copying someone else's and playing it how they tell you to. > > Go with a build that is something unusual and different.. that alone will make you feel kinda unique from everyone else, trust me I've been doing this for years and it's one of the reasons I still enjoy playing Gw2 :) > > Great post and I totally agree. > I've been reading some guides, but I've never copied them. I read the guides to get a better understanding on how different attributes contribute to the build. Then I try to modify that guide into a build that will suite me and my playstyle better. I also don't compete with anyone, I just try to do what I think is fun (which seems to be the point of the video you linked). I have a very casual and chill attitude when playing Guild Wars 2, even when I'm farming. At the moment, crafting 250 mithril axes for the Astralaria will require 1500 mithril ore and 1500 elder wood. Which means it will take time. So I will take my time, mining when there's an opportunity but I can ignore that mine for a couple of hours (or actually days!) if a friend is in need of help with another mission... or if someone asks in /map for help with something. > Trying to enjoy the game and take the opportunities that appear to try out stuff that I usually don't think about, trying the experience and also take an hours just to /sit and make some jokes in /map. Sometimes we need to take the distance and have fun, which I believe that's why we play the games. > Also, helping another player is helping that player to get a good experience of the game, having fun. > > When I play fractals and dungeons, so far I've had the luck to be in parties where everyone had lots of patience. See, my jumping is bad and I always need lots of tries before I manage to get to the end. I fall a lot and always end up being last there. I still laughed so hard when three party members stood at the end cheering me on and saying "Come one! You can do it!" > That was "having fun". I loved them for it, and their patience. > In another party when we played another dungeon and were fighting a dog/puppy. Someone made a joke and I noticed everyone just stopped fighting, it almost wiped out the entire party. My guess is, we all laughed and eventually we killed the puppy and we also had lots of fun doing it (no real animals were harmed, I promise). > The same way, we need to be able to find a build or take a break from the daily farming/grinding and accept that it may take an extra day or two to reach the goal. When we forget about having fun, that's when we start asking if the game has become boring or if it's time to take a break from the game. > > But I believe that guides are okay, it's more about how you use them and adapt them to your build that will make the difference. Do you just copy it and implement as is, or do you get inspired and try to understand it before implementing your own version of it? Yeah, I don't think guides are a negative thing at all either, I use them a lot myself especially for things like achievement hunting but I don't use them to the detriment of my experience. If I see one saying use these stats or obtain this item asap cause it's so great then that stuff I'll avoid and make a note to try or come back to another time to see how different it is to what I did on my own. Those moments you mentioned in fractals are definitely memorable experiences and yeah I agree you'll remember them because of how fun they are and how you felt in that moment ^^ It's stuff like that which is really why people enjoy MMO's imo. When I run that kind of content as well I always advertise my groups with "All Welcome" I don't care if there are under leveled or under geared people wanting to play, if anything it makes me want to look out for them and keep them alive as best I can which adds a whole new layer of fun to the experience for me. One of my favourite memories of looking out for others was a few years back when I was finishing up some bounty creatures I was missing in my achievements and I finally managed to get the LEgendary bounty Seneb the Desecrated to spawn in Sandswept isles (previous attempts had resulted in Joko trolling) I was going to just solo him like I had been doing with the other bounties but I figured I'd give a shoutout in chat in case anyone else may have needed it.. why not right? Only 3 other people decided to come for the fight and they quickly started talking about our chances of success with such a small group lol I told them we'll be fine and jokingly proclaimed that we would definitely win because I can't die XD (I was running a power tank minion Master build) I also told them that I'd look out for them keep them alive as best I could and then pretty much dived right in to the fight to stop wasting the timer. I kept every single one of those guys alive for the whole fight, healing them with my shroud 4 and reviving them when they went down and we even got the kill as well with only a few seconds left on the timer much to everyone's surprise. We all hung out for a few minutes after cheering our success and having fun, I even got praised when one of the players said I kept my promise to keep them all alive lol It was a good fight and it really felt like we had achieved something when we won because of the circumstances of the fight. Our low numbers, the confidence of success in the minds of each of the players involved, the presence of that particular enemy due to it's Legendary status. It's easy to feel like you can't win in those circumstances and your just "wasting your time" as Josh says in the video but it was those circumstances which made that particular fight so memorable and fun for me and I expect for the the other 3 players who got to share that experience with me as well. I've killed so many legendary creatures and world bosses and stuff in Gw2.. but the battles I remember best with them are the ones where I fight them alone or with only a handful of other people and we really have to work for that kill ^^

I much preferred how Hundred Blades functioned back in Gw1 but alas we have what we have. Every idea I see that proposes a "fix" for Hundred Blade is often just "make it mobile".. I can understand this but it would look pretty stupid if you were running around flailing a GS around like that lol I think a better solution would be to rework Hundred Blades so it functions more like Reapers Death Spiral or Rangers Hunters Call. Death Spiral is a really good skill that hits for x6 in a single second which is only two less than Hundred Blades hits for over 3 and a half seconds so this is definitely practical for a rework of Hundred Blades. The problem is though if it functioned like this it would be such a massive damage spike in a very short period of time so it would either need a long and thus predictable cast time or a heavy damage and CD reduction to make it not ridiculously OP.. I could also see Hundred Blades working similarly to Hunters Call where you hit your target with a single hit and they continue to take damage over the next few seconds as a magical swords animation continues to strike at them.. Hunters call has 16 hits which is double Hundred Blades so this is certainly doable. But putting such a hard hitting debuff on a player like this would be pretty nuts.. probably really op with the Warrior still wailing on them as well.. So I expect again we'd see some heavy nerfs to Hundred Blades damage as a result of this kind of change. So both of them have merit but would likely warrant nerfs which we don't want.. so what if instead Hundred Blades actually functioned like both of them? I think this is actually the best solution to this problem, Hundred blades as we know is an x8 attack right.. so what if we split it in half. 4 hits get applied in a single swipe animation like how Death spiral works.. a 1 second cast time would suffice for this just like Death Spiral. The other 4 hits would then get applied in a ticking damage debuff like how Hunters Call works. The ticking part of the attack could be applied on the 4th hit of the attack as a reward for Warriors landing all 4 initial hits which would also give enemies the chance to evade the last 4 hits by avoiding the 4th attack with a well timed dodge. So you still get your 8 hits provided you can land the whole initial attack, but the enemy can also evade the ticking hits by avoiding the 4th attack and halfing the damage they take from your attack. The 3 and a half second cast time for 8 hits gets knocked down to 1 second cast time for 4 hits and if you land the 4th hit you get an additional 4 hits in unblockable ticking damage.

> @"Kodama.6453" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > I dunno, I don't think the Sea Dragon will be the mother and I really hope it isn't. > > I think of that mother figure as something much older than existing Elder Dragons which opens up far more interesting potential for some deep origin backstory about Elder Dragons and how they came to be Elder Dragons. > > Yeah, I actually thought that this is supposed to be a seed for how the story is going to progress after the elder dragons. > > Anet stated that End of Dragons is not supposed to be the end of GW2. Even if the elder dragons are defeated, the story is supposed to go on. This "mother" is most likely another entity that stands behind the entire dragon cycle. Quite possibly yea, though I expect some people will be annoyed if the story after the Elder Dragon story is more Elder Dragon stuff lol I won't complain though I do not share those people's opinions, after dealing with the Elder Dragons I do want to explore their origins and find out where they came from/how they came to be in the first place. Those things are ancient.. predating countless sentient races and even recorded history, it could be very interesting to get things like fractals or DRM like content based in the mists that is set tens of thousands of years in the past in a Tyria that we wouldn't even recognise.. full of races we never even knew existed, as well as a few extinct ones that we have encountered in the past. Guildwars 1 had a cancelled 4th game called Utopia which was based on a similar concept.. a expansion/release that was based entirely in the mists. There is so much potential in the mists for all sorts of content, including a story that might even allow us to find the world where Humans originally came from and learn their origins and why the Gods brought them to Tyria in the first place.

I think your problem OP isn't so much about the balance of PvE but more your own play habits. i'm not saying that there isn't a balance problem, we all know that some classes perform better than others that's just the nature of games with options like that. But if you're playing the same build and you are "bored" then that says to me that you don't actually enjoy playing that build and probably do so because it's the "optimal" or "meta" for your class and that fault is really on you then. I recommend watching this very recently uploaded video by Josh Strife Hayes, while the title is about game guides he actually gets into a lot about how games have fallen into a state of fun vs efficiency and how the more optimised you play the game the more fun you optimise out of the game which can be greatly applied to Gw2 and the meta culture that exists in this game which many people have often criticised and in some cases claimed is toxic or elitist.. this is especially prevalent in discussions surrounding raid content as anyone who's been in those kinds of threads has very likely seen very often in those discussions. As someone who has been an advocate in these forums for many years telling people to play Gw2 how they want to play and not how the meta culture tells them to play I have to agree with a lot of what he talks about in the video. So if you are bored OP.. then I strongly suggest you listen to people here who are advising you to change your build or try another class and make something that you enjoy playing instead of copying some build off some website that will let you hit the biggest numbers. The fun is in the journey not the ending and building your own builds is far far more enjoyable than just copying someone else's and playing it how they tell you to. Go with a build that is something unusual and different.. that alone will make you feel kinda unique from everyone else, trust me I've been doing this for years and it's one of the reasons I still enjoy playing Gw2 :)

I dunno, I don't think the Sea Dragon will be the mother and I really hope it isn't. I think of that mother figure as something much older than existing Elder Dragons which opens up far more interesting potential for some deep origin backstory about Elder Dragons and how they came to be Elder Dragons.

Lol the new Skyscale skin looks like a Dog with wings to me XD Don't worry though even back in Gw1 there were significant differences between Tyrian Dragons and Canthan Dragons. Canthan dragons tend to be far more Eastern Serpent like or Turtle/Tortoise like in design while Tyrian Dragons have more Western and Drake like styles as you can also see in Gw2, the exceptions to that rule are naturally the Elder Dragons. Hydra's are also a thing as well although they no longer appear to be a Tyrian based creature like they were in Gw1 and now exclusively reside in Elona. There's also Wyverns now too which are a new addition to the universe and were not in Gw1. Aurine, Vlast and Skyscales can all be seen in Gw2 and show your more Western style winged 4 legged Dragons and Glint was the same, likewise Tyria also has multiple species of Wingless Drakes which are a lesser species of Dragon in this universe. As for Cantha well we've seen Kuunavang in the trailer for End of Dragons and she still has the same serpent design she did in Gw1 so that's good. There's also the mini mystical dragon which was added for the Chinese release of the game.. not a creature we've ever seen in Gw2 but that is an asset they could reuse for a creature in Cantha if they wanted to.. personally I'd really love to see that. The Elders are more diverse though which makes sense since we don't even know where they originate anyway. Zhaitan is just a mishmash of parts we know nothing about his true/original form as it's long lost to time he could have been anything. Mordremoth is a Wyrm, a limbless, wingless serpent that appears to be rooted into the ground and immobile. Kralkatorrik is more Western style, again 4 legs and wings like Glint and Aurine. The rest we don't have confirmation on yet but it is heavily speculated that Jormag is a Lindwurm style dragon, a long serpent like dragon with two front legs and probably no wings.. and since Primordus has been dropped as Jormag's Twin it's possible he too will share a similar design. When you add the crocodilish face reveal he had in S3 to the fact that we know he lives underground and tunnels his way around the world more serpent like design would definitely make the most sense for him to have. So Primordus is likely a wingless Lindwurm or Wyrm like Dragon or possibly something akin to a Salamander or Knucker Dragon. The Deep Sea Dragon is the only one we know next to nothing about and it's design varies greatly in concept art. There has only been one single glimpse of this dragon in Gw2 during a cutscene in Path of Fire where we see a Dragon inside a blue triangle which is presumed! not confirmed to be the Deep Sea Dragon. In this glimpse we can see what appears to be a large black dragon with wings, at least two front legs and a tail. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/1/14/The_Way_Forward_Dragon_concept_art.jpg So perhaps another western style dragon or maybe a winged Lindwurm. Although we do also have to factor in that there is a severely strong possibility that the DSD will not look anything like this image when we finally see it in game. Personally I am hoping for this as well as one of the lesser known Dragon Species in the Guildwars franchise is actually the Bonesnap Turtles of Cantha.. a very rare Dragon type in Gw1 that was only ever found on Shing Jea island. https://wiki.guildwars.com/images/4/47/Bonesnap_Turtle.jpg I am hoping the DSD dragon will be some kind of hybrid between a Bonesnap Turtle and a Hydra, a gigantic armoured turtle like dragon with at least 3 heads.. that would be awesome and it would fit with the Canthan region really good as Turtles are kind of a thing when it comes to design there. Bonesnap Turtles, Kappa and the Giant turtles the Luxons use as siege weapons and beasts of burden.. all of these are very unique to Cantha so giving the DSD a Turtle like design would definitely work for me, plus I love the idea of it being darn near invincible as nothing can penetrate it's shell ^^

Game would have to be heavily optimised to run on consoles and probably need a lot of engine modifications as well, and then there's there's the massive player gap and release issues.. cross platform play would be out of the question and console players would have to wait a long time to get new content due to update policies on consoles. Anet can't just hotfix and patch things like they can on PC because everything has to go through Sony, Nintendo and MS so console players would be behind the PC version constantly. Frankly the only thing console ports of Gw2 would achieve is costing more Dev time and resources and it would probably end up screwing over the PC version of the game.. slowing down new content etc.. and possible causing conflicts between the bases for various reasons. They would probably have to release Gw2 at basic too.. no expansions and living world and have that come in later so console players could experience the full game as intended and unlock the living world naturally, probably the best option but far more work and it would likely mean console players would have to buy the base game as it would be a new release. Or they could release GW2 as it is now.. denying console players the LW1 experience entirely and forcing them to pay for all the missed living world content which many would be angry about and rightfully so. Or they could just give the living world away free angering many in the PC base who had to pay for it. If you think Pfft people wouldn't be mad that about that.. then I say just look how players reacted when Anet made the base game free with HoT, some people are very petty and selfish about that sort of thing.

Machine gun go Brrrrrr!!!!

I don't have a problem with the hairstyle kits. However I do dislike that there are exclusive faces and hairstyles in them.. There have been plenty of occasions where I have made new characters and then used a kit on them instantly afterwards because they don't have the right face or hair that I want them to have and those options were not available in the creation process. I think it's long past time the creation process was updated to include these new faces and hairstyles.. but that's just me. Keep the colours exclusive, I don't care there but the faces and hair should be time locked for like a year or something and then become selectable in the creation process.

> @"Nephalem.8921" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > I do think that Minions get far to side lined in this stigma that they exist to deal damage thus minions suck because they are mediocre at doing that. > > Personally I have gotten far far more use out of minions as a hybrid support and damage mechanic thanks to their excessive lifesteal capability and Dark bond, the latter being basically a 25 second protection buff that stacks with the protection boon. > > Thus Minions excel primarily on tankier builds as a form of sustain by constantly feeding you health and reducing your damage.. they're mainly a support mechanic for Necromancers not an offensive one as most people seem to think they are. > > > > That is backed up heavily as well by the fact that all Minion traits are in the Death and Blood Magic traitlines. > > These two traitlines focus almost entirely on defence and support, not offense and damage. > > It's also a point of note as well that minion damage is static! and is not affected by the players stats etc.. thus minion damage is far more beneficial to Necro's running low damage builds.. tanks basically > > This gives necros the ability to benefit fairly well from power tank stat combos, basically being very very tanky without being completely useless in damage as most tanks would be in those sets. > > > You basically describe the perfect afk farm build here. Doesnt even matter if you use full nomads because minions dont scale. Doesnt even make a difference what you are doing because you deal no damage yourself anyways. > The problem is not with the minions, it's with the autocast mechanic on mostly GS4, something many necro players have asked to be disabled and for Minions to change so they will only attack targets when the player uses an active skill. Those two changes alone would destroy AFK minion farm builds entirely but some people dislike the idea of not being able to change their autocast to other weapon skills. Personally I don't care for those complaints though, AFK farming is a problem and even though minions get almost all the crap for it the biggest culprit that allows for it to happen is the autocast on GS4 or any skill that provides an on player location AoE.. like Ranger torch 5 to do the same thing with pets. Change minions to attack on active skill use doesn't fix the problem because of the autocast aoe. Change minions to attack on active skill use and disable the autocast aoe's.. problem solved, no more afk farming outside of botting which is a far more serious offense. Nomads is pretty wasted set on minion builds anyway since lifesteal gets extremely small gains from it to the point it's pretty much irrelevant, specially at the sacrifice of power which is just better for players running minion builds.. the only big benefit Necro's get from Healing power is their ability to AoE heal on shroud 4 via transfusion which is already a beefy 4-6K AoE heal without any healing power investment from stats. People always underestimate the damage a Necro tank can do as well. Keep in mind with Necro's trait's and gear allowing for circumventing precision it's possible to get a 3 stat gear set to function as if it was 4 without needing to make the same trade offs that 4 stat gears sets need for balance. To put that into examples.. It means Necromancers running Valkyrie stats can get a flat stat advantage of 174 Power, 266 Vitality (2,660 health) and 266 ferocity (18% more crit damage) over Necromancers running Marauders Stats without needing to trade off crit chance since the 50% crit chance Marauders gear grants through precision can be obtained just as easily through the Decimate defences trait, a very easy thing to take advantage of in any kind of group play, be that open world or group based content since max stacks of Vun are easily obtained and sustained. It also means for the tanks specifically as well that Necromancers are essentially the only class in Gw2 that can function as if it were running Paladin stats outside of PvP, their dominant stat always being Power or Precision depending on the situation, this is something I have had a lot of fun with myself over the years. > > I don't see that happening though tbh.. and largely for the same reason I expect we'll never see minions or pets get added to any other class in the game. > > AFK farming has put a pretty negative stigma onto these kinds of skill types and made a lot of people pretty bitter towards the existence of AI mechanics that require no player input to use. > > Because they are made for that gameplay. Permanent minions work like that in most games. just ai that completes the game for you without effort. a lot of single player rpgs have these for the casuals. never seen it working in multiplayer games. See this is exactly the stigma I hate about minions, people assume there is no skill, no player input at all. Real Minion players use our active minion skills when and where they're useful, especially the Golems Charge which is a huge double CC to defiance bars, easily one of the best CC skills in the game and of course Rise! which is again one of the best shouts and defensive skills in the game. All the criticisms that people throw at minions is entirely hypocritical as the same garbage can be thrown at many boons and other defensive skills as well. So much skill stacking 25 might from autoattacking right? Oh you used a defence skill at a critical moment to give yourself protection and avoid being killed by a big attack.. I guess there's no skill in that either is there? Necro's can do the same thing in their own way and much of that comes from the utility of their minions. Say you're a Guardian and you're about to get hit.. so you use "Hold the Line!".. you get 6 seconds of Protection and some Regeneration.. congrats you saved yourself with a well timed defence skill. People would say this was a good player action. Now say you're a Necromancer and you're about to get hit.. so you use Rise!!.. you spawn 2 Horrors that start attacking getting Dark Bond just in time before the big attack lands and healing you with lifesteal.. congrats you saved yourself in the exact same way as the Guardian did with a well timed defence skill.. Do people still say this was a good player action? No.. they don't even notice this action they just think Pfft some casual noob running with minions. Literally the only difference in those scenarios is that the Guardian can protect and heal 5 allies with "Hold the Line!" for a few seconds.. While the Necro can protect and heal itself for 25 seconds instead and then heal or revive his allies afterwards while also stopping them from bleeding out. There is no real difference at all and yet Necro's are looked down on for having minions in play despite all the benefits they offer the Necro. > The only type of minion that could work would be short duration ones without threat generation. They would be fancy dots with pathing bugs. Necro does have those though, they're called Shambling Horrors that we summon from the Rise! shout and they are what provide the unique 25 second protection buff through Dark Bond when they attack. Which btw also stacks with the protection boon! easily making Rise! one of if not thee best singular defensive skills in the game. I'll break the skill's uses down here so you can see what I mean. Rise! spawns 1-6 minions depending on how many targets you hit with it, each minion has a 25 second lifespan/duration. Each minion applies a refreshing Dark Bond buff for a few seconds when it attacks allowing a Necro to easily maintain this buff for the entire 25 second lifespan of each of the minons, and as said above this buff stacks with protection as well giving some heavy damage reduction bonus, think it's around 44% to 55%.. it doesn't double to 66% Each Minion also provides 20 toughness with Carapace via Flesh of the Master which can easily translate to a 220 toughness stat boost by using Rise! correctly. Beyond the Veil gives you a 10% damage reduction from all conditions so long as you have 10 stacks of carapace or more, correct use of Rise! alone is one way to achieve that buff for a full 25 seconds. Each minion will also life steal and heal the player with each attack if using the Vampiric trait allowing you to double or more than double your incoming sustain healing if you make 4 or more of these minions on use of Rise! Each one of those minions will trigger Death nova upon death or expire creating multiple poison fields that Necros can use for blast or whirl combos. Each one of those minions will take 1 condition from you every 10 seconds through Necromantic Corruption allowing you to easily loose around 10-11 conditions every 10 seconds.. and the next time each minion attacks that condition gets transferred back to the caster allowing you to transfer 10-11 conditions every 10 seconds as well. Some of those effects are handed by the game.. but that's in no way any different to say having a Sigil that transfers conditions or lifesteals on a crit. Controlling your carapace stacks for a toughness boost and condi damage reduction, controlling when you want to condi transfer several conditions specifically, controlling your on demand protection buff or when you just want some extra incoming healing to recover from a big hit. That is entirely the player deciding how to best use their minions in that situation, just like any other player does with any other class. If anything it could even be considered more difficult to pull off because of the nature of minions.. having to account for the time it will take to spawn them and for them to attack and move to the specific target.. maybe the player decides I should temporarily swap targets to a closer one so I can dump and transfer these condi's quicker. All of that gets completely overlooked by other players who just see a "low skill causal" running around with minions. > > Mostly and I can speak for myself here too, it comes from people who are fans of pets and minions etc > > We are constantly fearing that some mechanics we love and enjoy in the game will end up being crippled and ruined because of bad actor players abusing them.. > > And even if that doesn't come to pass, at the very least it's likely Anet will avoid putting more of them into the game for that very reason. > > As much as we love these mechanics and would love to play other classes with summoner playstyles.. we don't expect it to ever happen largely thanks to bad players who abuse them and ruin it for everyone. > > The playstyle those people enjoy is basically afk farm meta. Unless you mean summoner like the ff14 summoner. But like i wrote earlier those are not like gw2 minions. they cant be used as meatshields and use the casters stats. basically normal spells with fancy animations. > You are flat out wrong here.. If you're referring to the bad actor players, they don't enjoy playing this way because they literally don't play the game when they do it.. you can't enjoy a game you are not playing, it's entirely a self serving method of profiteering which is really no different than botting or hacking gold into the game, it upsets the market and devalues materials and items that other people may legitimately farm and no longer gain as much from. If you're referring to me and other genuine minion players in general though then you're wrong because we despite AFK farming more than most players do and I have personally reported hundreds of players for doing it even guild mates who have been kicked from my main guild for doing it as well. Our guild leaders/admins have a 0 tolerance policy for AFK farming, botting or any kind of stuff like that which hurts the game so it's an instant kick for any guildies caught. I do not enjoy AFK playstyle's at all, I hate it and I especially hate how bad of a reputation it gives to players who do like minions and use them as they are intended to be used.

> @"Kodama.6453" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > If you are objectively looking into minions, even the minions suggested in this thread here, what exactly are they? They are summoned units which are attacking our enemy and have some special effects attached (like CC, conditions, etc.). And this is also what turrets are.... they are summoned units which attack our enemies with their auto attacks and some special abilities attached (again, CC, conditions, etc.). > > It is true that Anet tries to make skills distinct between classes, even if they share the same skill type. And I think this is a good thing. I personally enjoy alot that necromancer, chronomancer and scrapper are all using wells, yet they are using them all differently. > > However, I don't think that this was really a factor for gyros here. If they would have wanted to make them attacking minions like for the necromancer, then they could have done it and give it something else to make them distinct from necromancer's minions. Like making them insta-cast, giving them health degend, or any other effect you can come up with. > Yeah I like that too which is one reason I want more minion/summoner play in the game but serving different roles on different classes. If it can be done with Wells and Shouts and Signets etc then why not minions or corruptions or banners etc Heavy Condition investment is already one way they could differ new minions from Necro minions as Necro minions are pretty terrible at (damaging) condition application. They could also put more focus on sacrificing minions which is something the Necro is also not so great at either outside of PvP where their minions are extremely fragile. > > I do think that Minions get far to side lined in this stigma that they exist to deal damage thus minions suck because they are mediocre at doing that. > > Personally I have gotten far far more use out of minions as a hybrid support and damage mechanic thanks to their excessive lifesteal capability and Dark bond, the latter being basically a 25 second protection buff that stacks with the protection boon. > > Thus Minions excel primarily on tankier builds as a form of sustain by constantly feeding you health and reducing your damage.. they're mainly a support mechanic for Necromancers not an offensive one as most people seem to think they are. > > That is my point, turrets are the same. While they do damage, they are really not exceeding at it. But they add more utility to the engineer and also defense, like reflec, boons, CC, etc. That is exactly what I mean, theoretically, turrets also work better on tankier builds, since their damage doesn't scale with your stats. And they give you more survivability and utility. And just like minions, they also give supportive features, since they are sharing boons with allies and the healing turret also heals. > > If you think about it, then necromancer's minions and engineer's turrets are really doing the same thing, just in different ways. Actually from what you said it sounds more like Spirits to me than minions but there's not that big a difference tbh. Probably the main difference is Minions are entirely selfish benefitting only the Necromancer where as turrets and spirits have group support. > > I don't see that happening though tbh.. and largely for the same reason I expect we'll never see minions or pets get added to any other class in the game. > > AFK farming has put a pretty negative stigma onto these kinds of skill types and made a lot of people pretty bitter towards the existence of AI mechanics that require no player input to use. > > Mostly and I can speak for myself here too, it comes from people who are fans of pets and minions etc > > We are constantly fearing that some mechanics we love and enjoy in the game will end up being crippled and ruined because of bad actor players abusing them.. > > And even if that doesn't come to pass, at the very least it's likely Anet will avoid putting more of them into the game for that very reason. > > As much as we love these mechanics and would love to play other classes with summoner playstyles.. we don't expect it to ever happen largely thanks to bad players who abuse them and ruin it for everyone. > > > > I think it can happen, many suggestions were made in these forums already about that. You can't expect turrets to stay the same as dealing damage constantly without imput, tho. There needs to be more input from the engineer, some interaction that requires the engineer to actively do something with them. > I actually agree with you about the input here. I think Turrets could get a serious rework in how they are used as well and I have an idea that might be a solution for them. I think one of the best things Anet could do for Turrets is remove their AI/scripts entirely and give them long durations with either a set amount or regenerating ammunition. Rather than turrets fire automatically at intervals the player would get to actively control each turret and trigger when they wanted the turrets to fire, similar in a way to preparations if preparations had multiple uses. Use them sparingly and pick your moments or unload your entire ammo stockpile at once in a barrage!! and then self destruct them, would be up to you how to use them. This would fit in so much more with the theme of turrets imo and since they would now be active skills the player would use they could get rid of the static damage problem as well and allow them to scale with the players stats. By doing this it also opens the door for a more AI minion like skill type as well since both Gyros and Turrets would no longer fill that role. > > > > Tbh I think it would be pretty difficult to incorporate a bio engineering theme into a build without some kind of companion system.. > > Not impossible but difficult, best I can think of that might work.. is maybe a signet style mechanic that is themed on implants that grant passive effects and active effects when their skill is used. > > Tie it into some kind of adrenaline/life force like system too and it could be interesting.. passive effects only apply when you have adrenaline/life force from combat and slowly drain it while the active effects require a large energy investment to use or something. > > > > There are more ways to represent bioengineering, you just have to be creative. > > I suggested an elite spec myself, the plaguedoctor, and associated that elite spec with corruptions, for example. This could represent dangerous chemicals and concoctions, which the engineer uses to enhance the strength of his allies, but they come with downsides, which could be thematically explained as "side effects". It is also pretty easy to differentiate these from the necromancer corruptions. > You have to be very careful regarding players giving downsides to other players in Gw2.. least you give the trolls ammo to annoy people lol Thematically though it's a great concept as well and fits with the Engineer. > For example, you could make these skills cost a flat amount of health from the engineer to get used instead of applying conditions to yourself. > Another way would be to make these corruptions AoE buffs for allies and instead of just the engineer suffering conditions when these skills are used, you inflict conditions on all affected allies. Which could have great synergy with purity of purpose. First you buff your allies and put conditions on them, then you clean these conditions inflicted by you to turn them into boons instead. > I dunno about health investment.. this is something I think that Necromancers should get if anything as it was a big part of their Gw1 profession. If they were going to go down that road i'd rather see Necromancer corruptions get major buffs in power but now require the health investment to justify them and the plaguedoctor spec should get the self condi application that Necro corruptions currently give. This would be a better fit with the side effect concept imo and they could push that even further by having plaguedoctors get damage modifiers for every condition they have on them which will force them to manage their conditions with the Resistance boon of which this spec would have to supply a good chunk of. > > It would if you were looking to gain a similar level of control as Ranger pets but if it had the same level of control as a Minion it wouldn't be a problem. > > If you also factor in the inability to swap pets there maybe a lot of wiggle room to get around those lack of control options. > > They could always do it a bit like soulbeast and have a fusion mechanic that functions like a transform skill or weapon kit, replacing your weapon skills. > > Another way they can make it different is that rather than your pet fuse to you like a soulbeast, you fuse into your pet instead automatically being ported to your hybrids location, and defusing from your pet could be made into an offensive effect as well. > > > > So basically what i've just said here is this new spec would be a mix and match of Soulbeast and Death Shroud mechanics XD > > So basically, just tag on a single big minion onto the engineer. Can't say I am a fan of that idea. With just this one single minion as a **class mechanic**, the gameplay would need to get heavily based on it. And if the gameplay is based on this minion, then having absolutely no control over it would feel terrible to play with.... > > Also I would like to avoid another transformation mechanic for the engineer that replaces weapon skills. Holosmith has already done that. More a pet than a minion but arguably there isn't that much difference. But yea the gameplay would revolve around it.. not so much the pet itself but the Soulbeast like fusing mechanic which would more mimic the Death Shroud mechanic giving you new weapon skills and a second health bar (which will be based on the combined current health of your pet and character) but with the added benefits of a pet fusion stat boost based on your hybrid creature. Swapping weapon skills is something the Engineer is kinda designed for though, Holosmith does it as you said but they also have kits too which also do the same. Considering Engineers cannot swap weapons in combat I believe that they are best primed to have new specs that give them new weapon skills via mechanics like that.

Barrage isn't projectile. Arrows do not go from A to B in a line they go from A to B vertically in an arch. Watch any movie or TV show where they have archers or catapult's firing into the air and see exactly how Barrage works mechanically. Rangers often cannot see where they are putting a barrage over a wall and have to rely on their own familiarity with the skills range and the knowledge of where their out of sight target is. That is a measure of skill if you ask me.. or just blatant luck xD Best thing about Barrage though, it's mind numbingly easy for players to avoid with basic combat rules like.. Don't stand in the red circles! XD

> @"Kodama.6453" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > I get what you mean, although i'd grant the title to anything that expands significantly into the theme of the class. > > I'd give it to a Machinist with minions just because it's something that works very well with the theme of Engineer and they don't have anything like that right now. > > The original concept of Gyros was a step towards that although I'd say Anet failed pretty badly with it the first time and just replaced it entirely with Well drones. > > I blame this more on Anet not wanting to encroach on Necro territory with Minion play but that's what most Minion fans want them to do with things like this, we like Minions so we want more Minions not some hollow replica that just fails across the board and everyone ends up hating. > > I don't think that it was because "Anet didn't want to encroach on necro territory". I think the thing here is that Anet wanted gyros to feel distinct and special in the engineers pool of skills. > I think it's probably a bit of both, I do recall a statement made before somewhere (I think by a developer but may not have been) about not wanting to give Ele summons unlimited durations because that would intrude on what makes Necro minions unique. > If you are objectively looking into minions, even the minions suggested in this thread here, what exactly are they? They are summoned units which are attacking our enemy and have some special effects attached (like CC, conditions, etc.). And this is also what turrets are.... they are summoned units which attack our enemies with their auto attacks and some special abilities attached (again, CC, conditions, etc.). > > The only differences in gameplay are that minions are mobile and in this case here, they are time restricted (since they are degenerating health). But they fulfill the same job: attacking the enemy for us, CC them and serve as meat shields. > Break it down further and they're really not all that different to any AoE skill really.. they just have low damage high duration compared to say Wells or Consecrations etc. If you flipped the offensive capability of Turrets to Support or Defence you pretty much have Ranger Spirits. I do think that Minions get far to side lined in this stigma that they exist to deal damage thus minions suck because they are mediocre at doing that. Personally I have gotten far far more use out of minions as a hybrid support and damage mechanic thanks to their excessive lifesteal capability and Dark bond, the latter being basically a 25 second protection buff that stacks with the protection boon. Thus Minions excel primarily on tankier builds as a form of sustain by constantly feeding you health and reducing your damage.. they're mainly a support mechanic for Necromancers not an offensive one as most people seem to think they are. That is backed up heavily as well by the fact that all Minion traits are in the Death and Blood Magic traitlines. These two traitlines focus almost entirely on defence and support, not offense and damage. It's also a point of note as well that minion damage is static! and is not affected by the players stats etc.. thus minion damage is far more beneficial to Necro's running low damage builds.. tanks basically This gives necros the ability to benefit fairly well from power tank stat combos, basically being very very tanky without being completely useless in damage as most tanks would be in those sets. > Gyros in their original implementation were different. They were more passive in nature, 4 of the 6 gyros added didn't have offensive capabilities and just were supporting others through pulsing effects (damage reduction, condi clean, healing, stealth). What was also unique for them was that they were the only minion type in the game which was instantly cast in majority (4 out of 6 gyros had no cast time, including the healing one), but that is just a minor point. > A lot like spirits in a way although they too have changed a lot over the years and never had instant cast times. Spirits even used to follow you around for a while but they nixed that a while back and give them degenerating health like Turrets which completely ruined Spirits for me. I used them for a long time partly for their support use but also as a means of aggro manipulation with longbow 3's stealth and the pet. I used to solo explorable dungeons with a glass canon spirits build using that tactic, good times ^^ > > There's a fair bit of variety to explore there which is why some people want more types of construct's. > > For the most part though people just really like companion play and want to see it more embraced on other classes which is a weakness of Gw2 for them as currently Ranger and Necro are the only classes with decent companion capabilities. > > Elementalist has summons but this is a weak element of their class imo and needs some serious improvements to make Summoners a viable style for Ele's to play. > > I see what you mean, but at the same time, I don't know why people expect companion play to get enhanced on engineer specifically... > Engineer already has the companion playstyle, we have our turrets. The actual problem here is that turrets are not viable in any game mode, since they were nerfed to oblivion. > > But this is more an argument for turrets being in need of buffs and actual niches in the game you can run them without being a liability. Instead of replacing turrets with a new minion type and let them be forgotten, I would advocate to rework turrets from the ground to properly represent the companion playstyle inside our class. > I don't see that happening though tbh.. and largely for the same reason I expect we'll never see minions or pets get added to any other class in the game. AFK farming has put a pretty negative stigma onto these kinds of skill types and made a lot of people pretty bitter towards the existence of AI mechanics that require no player input to use. Mostly and I can speak for myself here too, it comes from people who are fans of pets and minions etc We are constantly fearing that some mechanics we love and enjoy in the game will end up being crippled and ruined because of bad actor players abusing them.. And even if that doesn't come to pass, at the very least it's likely Anet will avoid putting more of them into the game for that very reason. As much as we love these mechanics and would love to play other classes with summoner playstyles.. we don't expect it to ever happen largely thanks to bad players who abuse them and ruin it for everyone. > > Bioengineering would fit well into a minion based spec, instead of just mechanical creatures you could have these crazy mutilated cyborg creatures lol > > I expect some people would not enjoy that sort of thing though.. looking at all these twisted and mangled animals with metal sticking out of them XD > > Here we have the same problem to tackle again: if you represent the bioengineering theme with minions, you have to make minions distinct in gameplay from turrets. They need a new mechanic that is more than just "I summon them and they attack my enemy". And considering that gyros already failed as an experimental minion type, I prefer to avoid minions completely for engineer in the future, tbh. > Tbh I think it would be pretty difficult to incorporate a bio engineering theme into a build without some kind of companion system.. Not impossible but difficult, best I can think of that might work.. is maybe a signet style mechanic that is themed on implants that grant passive effects and active effects when their skill is used. Tie it into some kind of adrenaline/life force like system too and it could be interesting.. passive effects only apply when you have adrenaline/life force from combat and slowly drain it while the active effects require a large energy investment to use or something. > > Could also go with the pet mechanic instead of Minions and have the Engineers pets be some sort of engineered Hybrids, they could make a really fun quest out of that as well, have you go around collecting pets like Rangers do but instead of using them you need to collect all the required pets in a specific line to unlock a specific hybrid creature that you can use. > > That would be really fun imo and a good way to avoid crossing pet issues.. Rangers only use Natural creatures, Engineers only use Hybrids. > > Alchemy is also something i'd like to see more expanded on as well for Engineers. > > Pet mechanic could be interesting, I guess. The problem I see with this is that it seems almost impossible to control a pet in a nuanced level without the engineer having to give up their entire toolbelt. And giving up the entire toolbelt requires an extreme amount of compensation in power, since this mechanic holds quite alot of our power budget. > It would if you were looking to gain a similar level of control as Ranger pets but if it had the same level of control as a Minion it wouldn't be a problem. If you also factor in the inability to swap pets there maybe a lot of wiggle room to get around those lack of control options. They could always do it a bit like soulbeast and have a fusion mechanic that functions like a transform skill or weapon kit, replacing your weapon skills. Another way they can make it different is that rather than your pet fuse to you like a soulbeast, you fuse into your pet instead automatically being ported to your hybrids location, and defusing from your pet could be made into an offensive effect as well. So basically what i've just said here is this new spec would be a mix and match of Soulbeast and Death Shroud mechanics XD

Patience, they'll announce stuff when they are ready. We all knew it was going to be a long wait before we got to hear or see anything from End of Dragons.

> @"Kodama.6453" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > Because Gyros are not minions, nor were they technically ever minions. > > They were more akin to summons mechanically and now they're "wells" > > > > Thematically they're little floating drones.. hardly minion like at all and not impressive as a visual summon creature, They fit the scrapper style sure but I would categorically disagree with anyone who claims that Gyros would be the same thing as large mechanical creatures like a Mechanical Devourer or Spider. > > They are vastly different visually and especially since the rework, mechanically. > > > > When people want minions they don't want little floating orbs or special effects that have a visual companion like creature like Gyros are now.. they want AI controlled companions that aid you in battle, same applies to Ranger pets. > > Gyros as they work today have far more in common with the Hammers that Revenant can summon around them, they're not even remotely minion like. > > > > You can argue they used to be minion like but it's a moot point really since they're not anymore so the way I see it that re-opens the door for a Machinist like spec for the Engineer. > > Why this is a thematically superb concept is because Engineer is an inventor spec that greatly meshes well with both Charr and Asura's technological advancements, especially Asura and their tendency to construct Golems as multipurpose utility vehicles that they use for Transport, protection, combat, warfare, exploration and construction etc. > > Having an Engineer spec that focuses on building powerful mechanical companions to protect and fight along side them like Pets and Minions absolutely fits the theme of this profession, and Gyros while also fitting the theme are more akin to Smart Mines or Grenades than they are to mechanical companions that fill the minion role perfectly. > > > > I guess I didn't get my point across well here. When I think about a "thematically superb" concept for a new elite spec, then it would be something that explores yet unexplored niches of the engineer thematics. > I get what you mean, although i'd grant the title to anything that expands significantly into the theme of the class. I'd give it to a Machinist with minions just because it's something that works very well with the theme of Engineer and they don't have anything like that right now. The original concept of Gyros was a step towards that although I'd say Anet failed pretty badly with it the first time and just replaced it entirely with Well drones. I blame this more on Anet not wanting to encroach on Necro territory with Minion play but that's what most Minion fans want them to do with things like this, we like Minions so we want more Minions not some hollow replica that just fails across the board and everyone ends up hating. > Artificial devourers and spiders are different from gyros. But they share one trope with each other, which is _mechanical constructs_. What I don't understand is that people seem to always associate the engineer profession with these mechanical constructs, but the class represents so much more. > It does, although there are big differences between the types of mechanical constructs Engineer has.. Turrets for example are MC's but they are nothing like a Golem or Gyro is. There's a fair bit of variety to explore there which is why some people want more types of construct's. For the most part though people just really like companion play and want to see it more embraced on other classes which is a weakness of Gw2 for them as currently Ranger and Necro are the only classes with decent companion capabilities. Elementalist has summons but this is a weak element of their class imo and needs some serious improvements to make Summoners a viable style for Ele's to play. > Holosmith was a great elite spec after scrapper because it was exploring a completely different niche. Instead of mechanical constructs and electricity, this time lasers and the hard light technology has been the focus. Which feels quite different and refreshing. > It was very different that's for sure although personally I didn't like this spec. > This is why I can't see this concept here as thematically superb. It is exploring the theme of mechanical constructs once again, which was already done with scrapper. What I would truly consider to be great thematically would be a focus on once again a completely different thematical niche of the engineer. > Bioengineering or chemicals would be such an opportunity, for example, since neither scrapper nor holosmith explored these themes in the slightest and thy are part of the engineer niches as well. > Bioengineering would fit well into a minion based spec, instead of just mechanical creatures you could have these crazy mutilated cyborg creatures lol I expect some people would not enjoy that sort of thing though.. looking at all these twisted and mangled animals with metal sticking out of them XD Could also go with the pet mechanic instead of Minions and have the Engineers pets be some sort of engineered Hybrids, they could make a really fun quest out of that as well, have you go around collecting pets like Rangers do but instead of using them you need to collect all the required pets in a specific line to unlock a specific hybrid creature that you can use. That would be really fun imo and a good way to avoid crossing pet issues.. Rangers only use Natural creatures, Engineers only use Hybrids. Alchemy is also something i'd like to see more expanded on as well for Engineers.

> @"Kodama.6453" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > Thematically it looks superb.. Minions are skill type that would fit the Engineer really well. > > > > Other than theme though I'll have to agree with others here who are criticising it. > > Well agree with everything except the trash talking of minions as a mechanic, I like Minions and have made great builds using them over the years and would love to see more classes get minion mechanics so I say Minion's are awesome and the haters can shut it!! lmao > > > > But in all seriousness, I would support engi minions but it would have to be done very very right to make it worth it. > > Minions aside, how is it thematically superb? This spec basically is "a mechanic who builds mechanical units to aid him". > > That is **literally** what the scrapper is. But instead of mechanical minions with different shapes, he has gyros to aid him which share a general design with nuances based on their function. I can not agree that something that just repeats what another elite spec already did is "thematically superb". Because Gyros are not minions, nor were they technically ever minions. They were more akin to summons mechanically and now they're "wells" Thematically they're little floating drones.. hardly minion like at all and not impressive as a visual summon creature, They fit the scrapper style sure but I would categorically disagree with anyone who claims that Gyros would be the same thing as large mechanical creatures like a Mechanical Devourer or Spider. They are vastly different visually and especially since the rework, mechanically. When people want minions they don't want little floating orbs or special effects that have a visual companion like creature like Gyros are now.. they want AI controlled companions that aid you in battle, same applies to Ranger pets. Gyros as they work today have far more in common with the Hammers that Revenant can summon around them, they're not even remotely minion like. You can argue they used to be minion like but it's a moot point really since they're not anymore so the way I see it that re-opens the door for a Machinist like spec for the Engineer. Why this is a thematically superb concept is because Engineer is an inventor spec that greatly meshes well with both Charr and Asura's technological advancements, especially Asura and their tendency to construct Golems as multipurpose utility vehicles that they use for Transport, protection, combat, warfare, exploration and construction etc. Having an Engineer spec that focuses on building powerful mechanical companions to protect and fight along side them like Pets and Minions absolutely fits the theme of this profession, and Gyros while also fitting the theme are more akin to Smart Mines or Grenades than they are to mechanical companions that fill the minion role perfectly.

Thematically it looks superb.. Minions are skill type that would fit the Engineer really well. Other than theme though I'll have to agree with others here who are criticising it. Well agree with everything except the trash talking of minions as a mechanic, I like Minions and have made great builds using them over the years and would love to see more classes get minion mechanics so I say Minion's are awesome and the haters can shut it!! lmao But in all seriousness, I would support engi minions but it would have to be done very very right to make it worth it.