Zerg Heal Scrapper post-patch

[PeLi.5498]

Scrapper had 2 utilities, more healing with Rapid Regen and the best, aoe superspeed with final salvo. A lot of superspeed in a big area with really low cd. Now we have only Rapid Regen, but Idk if is interestig still using scrapper just for this

[funghetto.1584]

> Actually you could detonate the gyros yourself and being on voice comms, landing the lightning field that it even hits the commander isnt that hard.

>

> No1 blasts field these days anyways. Smokes maybe but not midfight. There's barely any regroups because the massive amount of heals already existing.

>

>

out of thread, but.... blasts??? O_O what are they??? O_O (joking - the good old times)

[Dediggefedde.4961]

> @"PeLi.5498" said:

> Scrapper had 2 utilities, more healing with Rapid Regen and the best, aoe superspeed with final salvo. A lot of superspeed in a big area with really low cd. Now we have only Rapid Regen, but Idk if is interestig still using scrapper just for this

 

And massive condition cleanse via medkit, EG and crate. I like to run althruism+mortar for even more on a 1s CD. something like 2-4 cleanses per second is doable for me according to arc-dps in longer fights.

 

Also, Rapid-Regen is not the only thing triggering your MDF. You heal tons using comeback-cure, vital blast, bandage-self+mdf and just using medikit-1. With the new kinetic stabilizers, I think the rapid-regen heal is roughly the same. So, you can still pull off something like 12-14k hps (heal per second) in some situations. 3k hps without doing anything, 6-8k hps in a regular fight.

 

Other utilities are the "watchful eye" buff (-33% dmg) of bulwark gyro, that is uncorruptable and lasts for 4s, even if the gyro is destroyed, a bit group-stability & Projectile protection, some ranged-CC and being a non-squishy target to distribute enemy damage.

 

So, the scrapper still brings benefits to the zerg. Group superspeed was "only" 33% of the reason why it was liked by zergs.

[PeLi.5498]

> @"Dediggefedde.4961" said:

> > @"PeLi.5498" said:

> > Scrapper had 2 utilities, more healing with Rapid Regen and the best, aoe superspeed with final salvo. A lot of superspeed in a big area with really low cd. Now we have only Rapid Regen, but Idk if is interestig still using scrapper just for this

>

> And massive condition cleanse via medkit, EG and crate. I like to run althruism+mortar for even more on a 1s CD. something like 2-4 cleanses per second is doable for me according to arc-dps in longer fights.

>

> Also, Rapid-Regen is not the only thing triggering your MDF. You heal tons using comeback-cure, vital blast, bandage-self+mdf and just using medikit-1. With the new kinetic stabilizers, I think the rapid-regen heal is roughly the same. So, you can still pull off something like 12-14k hps (heal per second) in some situations. 3k hps without doing anything, 6-8k hps in a regular fight.

>

> Other utilities are the "watchful eye" buff (-33% dmg) of bulwark gyro, that is uncorruptable and lasts for 4s, even if the gyro is destroyed, a bit group-stability & Projectile protection, some ranged-CC and being a non-squishy target to distribute enemy damage.

>

> So, the scrapper still brings benefits to the zerg. Group superspeed was "only" 33% of the reason why it was liked by zergs.

 

All of that I know it, is my main. But If you can re-read me, you can see I mean Scrapper, just that spec. No other kits, not Inventions, not Alchemy, etc

So then yes, bulwark is usefull but usually is destroy too fast for the damage and toolbelt use sometimes is usefull, and the function gyro could be usefull sometimes.

For me, things that they are really usefull, toolbelt bulwark and Rapid Regen (In the Scrapper, just Scrapper)

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Dediggefedde.4961" said:

> But what would be a nice choice to replace blast gyro?

> Slick shoes might be nice for personal super-speed and addition stun-source to trigger kinetic-stabilizers and thus rapid regeneration...

 

I don't know if I would ever want to give up Bypass Coating, no matter how useless the gyro becomes. The change to Final Salvo though has made me go back to Supply Drop vs. Sneak Gyro.

[Dediggefedde.4961]

> @"PeLi.5498" said:

> All of that I know it, is my main. But If you can re-read me, you can see I mean Scrapper, just that spec. No other kits, not Inventions, not Alchemy, etc

> So then yes, bulwark is usefull but usually is destroy too fast for the damage and toolbelt use sometimes is usefull, and the function gyro could be usefull sometimes.

> For me, things that they are really usefull, toolbelt bulwark and Rapid Regen (In the Scrapper, just Scrapper)

 

Ah, sorry, I misunderstood then.

Well, for scrapper spec using a Hammer is also nice. ^^

I don't really like to be a frontline-healer with pistols or rifle...

Also Perfectly Weighted, Decisive Renown and Kinetic Stabilizers are nice for zerg fights.

Impact Savant might not be as useful for the barrier-increase alone, but together with Adaptive Armor the barrier is stronger some damage dealers auto-attack.

So, nothing comes as close at being nice for zerg fights as final salvo and rapid regeneration, but the other traits commonly chosen also are nice in my opinion.

Most gyros were ignored so far with good reason. Medi-gyro had some benefits when there was a condi-meta and conversion-scrapper came up. blast gyro was taken for double super-speed on short CD.

Now you can either have 3s AoE Superspeed with blast-gyro or double superspeed with slick shows+kinetic-Stabilizer...

However, since watchful-eye is in effect even if the gyro is destroyed, and it gives group stability and projectile protection, it's still a nice gyro. Was nicer with reflection, though. ^^

[Jski.6180]

> @"shortcake.8659" said:

> Final Salvo was giving way too much superspeed anyway. That build was dumb. Superspeed was meant to be short powerful bursts of mobility, not something you get fairly constant uptime with. There's already swiftness for that. If you want 0 effort pulsing aoe healing to replace rapid regen, just play a herald.

 

That is wrong because scraper still can give out perma super speed but its much much harder in combat. It was about also giving the gryo stab so they can do there job but now that gone so you have a pet who will never get stab in a fight and who will not live long enofe to make it though any type of hard cc.

[PeLi.5498]

> @"Dediggefedde.4961" said:

> > @"PeLi.5498" said:

> > All of that I know it, is my main. But If you can re-read me, you can see I mean Scrapper, just that spec. No other kits, not Inventions, not Alchemy, etc

> > So then yes, bulwark is usefull but usually is destroy too fast for the damage and toolbelt use sometimes is usefull, and the function gyro could be usefull sometimes.

> > For me, things that they are really usefull, toolbelt bulwark and Rapid Regen (In the Scrapper, just Scrapper)

>

> Ah, sorry, I misunderstood then.

> Well, for scrapper spec using a Hammer is also nice. ^^

> I don't really like to be a frontline-healer with pistols or rifle...

> Also Perfectly Weighted, Decisive Renown and Kinetic Stabilizers are nice for zerg fights.

> Impact Savant might not be as useful for the barrier-increase alone, but together with Adaptive Armor the barrier is stronger some damage dealers auto-attack.

> So, nothing comes as close at being nice for zerg fights as final salvo and rapid regeneration, but the other traits commonly chosen also are nice in my opinion.

> Most gyros were ignored so far with good reason. Medi-gyro had some benefits when there was a condi-meta and conversion-scrapper came up. blast gyro was taken for double super-speed on short CD.

> Now you can either have 3s AoE Superspeed with blast-gyro or double superspeed with slick shows+kinetic-Stabilizer...

> However, since watchful-eye is in effect even if the gyro is destroyed, and it gives group stability and projectile protection, it's still a nice gyro. Was nicer with reflection, though. ^^

 

Is fine and you are right I think. Ill try to think in the team mattes and some traits give you svv (less function gyro and Decisive renown) but nothing in theory for party. Ofc you need to stay alive to supp, so if is needed, is good. I Usually use shield for the additional blast and Over Shield; and mortar kit un elite for the fields with low cd.

I tell you this cos Ill test this build --> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAsOnsTBlIjtbB0ehl7jSMj2oOqXXH2hTUAcRA-jVhXABBr8LU9Axq+D0KBBY/BA-w

But just test, idk if I will like it :V The idea is Holo Leap for superspeed, Heat Therapy which heals 400-800/s yourself when you lose 5 or 10 heat /s (trying to replace the Rapid Reg), quickness from 3-sword and Hard Light Arena for more boons and CC with toolbelt and holo-5. The utility skill maybe a Elixir U/R or Idk

[patricide.1062]

The sky is not falling.

 

Y'all are honestly stuck on refusing to do what an Engineer has always excelled at since the game came out: comboing with your fields. I can still pump out silly healing numbers and cleanse silly amounts of conditions all while staying alive and on tag in a group of ~20. I've seen people say things like "I don't have time to blast," so I have to say that if you can't figure out how to combo with your or someone else's fields in the middle of a hectic fight then you ought not be playing an Engineer spec in big fights. Sometimes you can't find a spot to lay down a field and that's OK, so make sure you're blasting with Soothing Detonation. There will be a Light Field out and about when Guardians lay down symbols, that's AOE condition conversion + healing right there. Yeah yeah, I know, "it doesn't make my numbers POP so I don't like it." Who cares? This is WvW we're talking about. Your HP/s matters far less than your ability to heal the right people at the right time. You gotta lose the PvE mindset of "ArcDPS numbers are all that matter."

 

For real, dropping a Supply Crate in a water field when you are missing health can heal for upwards of 26k, all across about 10 near instant procs, meaning I'm not even overhealing with it. I might save 4 people from death and top off 8 more people at half health with that many procs. Yeah, it's on a long CD and it didn't add much to your total healing numbers but you definitely just saved the group to live on to fight for another push with just that one skill.

 

Just learn to use your skills when they matter most. That includes Elixir U.

 

[Dediggefedde.4961]

> @"PeLi.5498" said:

> I tell you this cos Ill test this build --> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAsOnsTBlIjtbB0ehl7jSMj2oOqXXH2hTUAcRA-jVhXABBr8LU9Axq+D0KBBY/BA-w

> But just test, idk if I will like it :V The idea is Holo Leap for superspeed, Heat Therapy which heals 400-800/s yourself when you lose 5 or 10 heat /s (trying to replace the Rapid Reg), quickness from 3-sword and Hard Light Arena for more boons and CC with toolbelt and holo-5. The utility skill maybe a Elixir U/R or Idk

 

There are two problems: heat-therapy does not trigger medical dispersion field... because... no idea. If you are just concerned about self-heal you can still use scrapper and kinetic-stabilizer. Superspeed-Uptime should be around 50%. And the Holo-superspeed-field is great, but much smaller and as such much harder to benefit from for the zerg.

In principle with missing mdf you loose something like 300*5=1500 hps, which is not that much... Soothing detonations should be taken, though. With holo-2 you have no need for mecha-legs. And the biggest problem is, that you have no stability in this build. Scrapper-traitline gave you increased barrier and some stability on dodge and CC. Shield is also a pretty bad hammer-replacement...

So, In principle this could work, but I doubt it's better than a heal-scrapper. Better play a conversion holo that goes for cleanses and damage and take a healer that has problems with constant condi-pressure, like the heal-rev.

 

> @"patricide.1062" said:

> The sky is not falling.

> comboing with your fields

> Just learn to use your skills when they matter most. That includes Elixir U.

 

Yes, you are right. Especially with today's patch that increased the quickness again. I used Elixir-U today in a guild-raid with applied-force and my guild-friends were thankful for well placed medikit-1 healings.

HPS is something I like to use in theory to compare different healing-techniques and skills with each other, but burst-heal and -cleanse is always just as important.

Still, the missing superspeed is noticable. Especially in our guild when we had used it with two engis for as long as it was a thing. The rapid-regeneration-mdf was maybe something like 10% of your overall healing in a fight (7k hps total, mdf gives 300/s on 5, lets say 50% superspeed uptime), but it did increase your healing passively in addition to blasts by 1500 hps when having superspeed. That's why sometimes I used superspeed in dangerous situations without much movement: to increase the outgoing healing.

I'm still a bit torn between kinetic-stabilizer&slick-shoes or applied-force&elixir-U, but I think they will again both be around just like final-salvo&blast-gyro...

[Jski.6180]

> @"patricide.1062" said:

> The sky is not falling.

>

> Y'all are honestly stuck on refusing to do what an Engineer has always excelled at since the game came out: comboing with your fields. I can still pump out silly healing numbers and cleanse silly amounts of conditions all while staying alive and on tag in a group of ~20. I've seen people say things like "I don't have time to blast," so I have to say that if you can't figure out how to combo with your or someone else's fields in the middle of a hectic fight then you ought not be playing an Engineer spec in big fights. Sometimes you can't find a spot to lay down a field and that's OK, so make sure you're blasting with Soothing Detonation. There will be a Light Field out and about when Guardians lay down symbols, that's AOE condition conversion + healing right there. Yeah yeah, I know, "it doesn't make my numbers POP so I don't like it." Who cares? This is WvW we're talking about. Your HP/s matters far less than your ability to heal the right people at the right time. You gotta lose the PvE mindset of "ArcDPS numbers are all that matter."

>

> For real, dropping a Supply Crate in a water field when you are missing health can heal for upwards of 26k, all across about 10 near instant procs, meaning I'm not even overhealing with it. I might save 4 people from death and top off 8 more people at half health with that many procs. Yeah, it's on a long CD and it didn't add much to your total healing numbers but you definitely just saved the group to live on to fight for another push with just that one skill.

>

> Just learn to use your skills when they matter most. That includes Elixir U.

>

 

Its not falling its already fell. Its not about the super speed its about the stab. In anet eyes the update was a buff not a nerf them not understanding that scraper has very few hard cc now with out running non scraper effects.

 

And i though having a dev working on a class would help too.

[PeLi.5498]

> @"Dediggefedde.4961" said:

> > @"PeLi.5498" said:

> > I tell you this cos Ill test this build --> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAsOnsTBlIjtbB0ehl7jSMj2oOqXXH2hTUAcRA-jVhXABBr8LU9Axq+D0KBBY/BA-w

> > But just test, idk if I will like it :V The idea is Holo Leap for superspeed, Heat Therapy which heals 400-800/s yourself when you lose 5 or 10 heat /s (trying to replace the Rapid Reg), quickness from 3-sword and Hard Light Arena for more boons and CC with toolbelt and holo-5. The utility skill maybe a Elixir U/R or Idk

>

> There are two problems: heat-therapy does not trigger medical dispersion field... because... no idea. If you are just concerned about self-heal you can still use scrapper and kinetic-stabilizer. Superspeed-Uptime should be around 50%. And the Holo-superspeed-field is great, but much smaller and as such much harder to benefit from for the zerg.

> In principle with missing mdf you loose something like 300*5=1500 hps, which is not that much... Soothing detonations should be taken, though. With holo-2 you have no need for mecha-legs. And the biggest problem is, that you have no stability in this build. Scrapper-traitline gave you increased barrier and some stability on dodge and CC. Shield is also a pretty bad hammer-replacement...

> So, In principle this could work, but I doubt it's better than a heal-scrapper. Better play a conversion holo that goes for cleanses and damage and take a healer that has problems with constant condi-pressure, like the heal-rev.

>

> > @"patricide.1062" said:

> > The sky is not falling.

> > comboing with your fields

> > Just learn to use your skills when they matter most. That includes Elixir U.

>

> Yes, you are right. Especially with today's patch that increased the quickness again. I used Elixir-U today in a guild-raid with applied-force and my guild-friends were thankful for well placed medikit-1 healings.

> HPS is something I like to use in theory to compare different healing-techniques and skills with each other, but burst-heal and -cleanse is always just as important.

> Still, the missing superspeed is noticable. Especially in our guild when we had used it with two engis for as long as it was a thing. The rapid-regeneration-mdf was maybe something like 10% of your overall healing in a fight (7k hps total, mdf gives 300/s on 5, lets say 50% superspeed uptime), but it did increase your healing passively in addition to blasts by 1500 hps when having superspeed. That's why sometimes I used superspeed in dangerous situations without much movement: to increase the outgoing healing.

> I'm still a bit torn between kinetic-stabilizer&slick-shoes or applied-force&elixir-U, but I think they will again both be around just like final-salvo&blast-gyro...

 

There is some traits which are "wrong", just copy-paste a base build and change some things, forgot change some traits. Any way the base idea was the heat heal+ mdf, which like you said, is bug and no way. Yesterday I try and I really miss final salvo. Super speed with holo-2 is fine but meh. So probably I will play scrapper as supp or holo with conversion. If they fix the bug, maybe I will try the holo supp, which do more CC and not bad.

Pistol is useless, sword is not bad, hammer is fine, but I usually use shield cos the protection for teammates, damage reduction for me and the extra blast. But hammer is good and maybe I will use it now that we have no more lighting field as use