A Note on Future Boon Direction

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

Okay some testing Feedback:

Yesterday I ran some fractals which weren't much of a challenge we ran with 4 dps + 1 druid and me as weaver extreme clunky but doable.

Today I ran with the old meta setup means druids, Bs , chrono, weaver , DH. Were I usually need 1 try we needed 5 and Twilight Oasis needed 40- 50 minutes for completion.

 

While there always someone complains how Amalia is like a raid boss I always had the impression after enough training she became not much different from other fractal bosses but after this she really is like a raid boss now. Main problem is in this fractal the chronos had always there a hard time to share boons because you constantly need evade something in it now the chrono can do nothing in it. We managed it with some random boons from time to time.

 

Chaos was also a pain everything took way longer and the final boss needed also 3 tries and we also had to fight 'Social Awkwardness' while we tried to stick together for the boons.

 

In short doable but not by any means fun

[DeceiverX.8361]

This change is one headed in the right direction. But it's far from a true solution.

TL;DR remove Might-on-dodge food and boon duration/sharing boons to cover holes in boon duration is more the problem than the breadth of availability of a bunch of different boons like using Plasma.

 

The problem really isn't the number of boons being applied so much as it is their duration and how easily they're shared in mass quantity. Particularly for might and protection. Even by making the boons profession-specific, all it does is it moves the problem to just needing a more diverse cast of players for optimal boon setups. But in situations like WvW (and to some extent sPvP based on team comp), that doesn't nullify the fact that the only strong style of play is to play to maximize boons, because there simply is no room for non-boon-heavy builds.

 

Capped boons effective double stats from armor and then some thanks to added utility like Stability, Swiftness, Resistance, and Vigor which are marked as essential in combat today because of the amount of low-cooldown damage and control available. Especially guilty is might-on-dodge food, which effectively provides permanent might in a substantial amount regardless of boon duration AND the effects of permanent vigor. Which can also stack with base vigor, effectively giving many professions the rate of dodges that the thief can get when opting into the entire trait line of Acrobatics. On top of all their defensive skills, or the various traits tied to dodging which I believe every profession except the Necromancer has. And for many, the rate of dodging was intended to be a balancing point, like Mirage Cloak and Thermal Release Valve.

 

We have moments of empowerment throughout the game in the form of all sorts of skills and abilities, but stacking boons to such an extent in duration and intensity enables people to face no consequences or downtime in their builds unless very explicitly countered; like how permanent stability can only be negated through hard boon denial or spamming of CC. But this in effect makes the game less-enjoyable for anyone attempting not to play into this strategy, since boons are a part of the game, and effects like corruption and CC have a lasting impact which simply punish players harder when their access is incidental/short-term in the case of corruption or nonexistent in the case of spammable CC. Permanent and reliable short-cooldown access to a variety of boons also allows certain classes to blatantly sacrifice stat investment from their armor into filling the weaknesses that would otherwise come in their traits while getting the best of both; permanent-boon builds can run more durable innately thanks to free might and fury for example, which then makes them harder to shut down even with corruption since they can't be killed like how a squishier non-boon build can be. For sustaining, which is really what matters in the PvP formats, the highs are just as high and the lows are also higher, since even without boons, many builds can just sustain until they re-stack them.

 

Not only that, but there's just downright less skill expression coming from builds which poop out boons permanently. The primary tactic becomes a matter of retaining boons and the rest of the encounter becomes a stat check based on how well they're kept. No longer are players really making thoughtful decisions about when to use their boons and possibly being denied these resources by smarter players on the other side who read the play.

 

 

I don't really have a solution outside of some pretty drastic reductions in AoE boon duration and reduced efficacy or downright removal of Concentration as a stat. If you nerf base boon duration, it makes for some difficult balancing since the short windows of power boons were originally intended to provide possibly become too short. Especially effects like Stability and Resistance which are basically required to play in the PvP scene given the massive prominence of CC (which if boons are actually addressed, also needs to be tweaked downward).

 

I think playing with non-conditionally-acquired boon duration is almost always going to be a recipe for disaster, especially since some boons are way more potent than others (Fury vs Stability/Protection, for example) and are heavily-based on availability per profession. If conditional effects - primarily in the form of needing to perform actions and stay engaged with a foe are tied to maintenance of existing boons - precisely like No Quarter and Fury, this could still keep boon supports going strong, while prohibiting the "stack up and rotate skills to win" type of gameplay which also demands more from individual players, but also enables more unconventional supports to emerge based on the needs of a group's skill and coordination.

 

 

[inaho.2046]

> All professions need work. Non heal and heal support designs need work. Weapons need work. Traits need work... Basically everything related to professions and combat needs a re-evaluation, a 2.0 rework if you will.

>

> This game was designed to have every profession focus on doing damage primarily. HoT tried to move away from the unhealthy “zerker” meta, as a result of original design, and introduce more roles to play outside of damage... There is still a long way to go to make all things better, but things are going step by step.

 

Work for what? - near continual nerfing of most classes is not the kind of work it needs. Firebrand for instance - pretty much worthless as a DPS in fractals - because the DPS is low to start with but made worse by easily interrupted main attacks, low health, and lack of a useful stun break combined with a clunky system with the tomes that makes my weavers rotation seem easy. I know it has it worshippers and I play it in certian raids (matthias, souless horror) - it's support does not approach decent until you have changed out your gear and runes and trinkets - effectively trashing your DPS and making a very sub-par chrono. Being condi when you need burst damage but the way the encounters are designed is not great. My mirage filled that niche with solid burst damage, condi cleanse on dodge, great mobility, etc... The endless nerfing is a major negative, and just indicitive of the lack of a long term plan combined with reactionary changes. It tells me there isn't a plan or direction, especially the way this cluster bomb nuke of chrono was done, My strategy has been for a long time to simply swap to playing the class that is still viable after major nerfs. However, even when I'm not playing chrono myself in raids or fractals - I am counting on one being there, I'm counting on those boons, and I'm counting on that chrono saving our bacon with the extra CC we need. Let's be honest too - playing support is not somethign the vast majority of people in gw2 do not do, or want to do. If it was, you would not see in LFG raids and fractals looking for chrono or druid continually, there would be no "chrono jail" because there would be lots of people wanting to play the boon chrono or chrono tank. Druid got it's healing nerfed to well below tempest not long ago - but tempest brings no offensive boons and is too squishy so druid remains with subpar heals. These are not easy classes to play well either - I and others used our chronos to help newbies live long enough to train fractal mechanics without rage quitting. Support chronos were not stomping zergs in WvW - it's not what we do. As for the complainers, if support chrono was so OP - why didn't everyone flock to it? Why is it hard enough to find a druid, or chrono that they're what was asked for in LFG. I'll tell you why - because most people (and I used to be one of them) have no interest in doing for others and worry about themselves. Chrono's, druids, and supports in general don't get the glory - we don't get the top DPS, we support those who do, we heal those who do, we boon those who do, and thanks to the pre-12/11 version of chrono, I learned that I could find satisfaction in a job well done helping and supporting instead of competing for the highest DPS. Trying to make everyone part support which is what they seem to be talking about - thats just going to be a disaster. Chrono filled a niche the entire game is designed around, and needs to go back like it was. It wasn't that long ago when they actually changed the event rewards to give credit for boons and heals to get chronos and druids to play them (yeah - getting bronze at best was a total bummer). Killing chrono like this is a huge mistake - and while I usually never say anything on these forums I did not feel I could be silent on this one. Even if you claim it's only for a few months. Especially since the previous chrono nerf was just on 11/2. Snowcrows is usually johnny on the spot - within hours of a patch/nerf they have updated builds/gear/reccomendations - it' s been 2 days and all I hear from them on chrono are crickets, and thats not a good sign. Take it for what you will. There seem to be several comments on this thread about not caring if people walk away over this, that it won't kill the game - but if I was Anet, I woudl be very concerned with the level of disaffection this nuking of chrono has caused among many players - and equally concerned about teh sheer joy with which some players who don't realize the consequences yet are crowing about how chrono was op and desperately needed to be nerfed. We support chronos were not killing them in any game mode, and when I think OP - a support chrono is the last thing that comes to mind, we played for their benefit. As a player I am deeply concerned that the nuke was done without anywhere for the chrono to go, nerfed to hell with no idea what it's role is going forward and told it will be several months before it is unveiled. It never occured to them to simply add boons to other classes as a buff if they wanted to displace chrono - but as with herald - the way they do such things comes at a combat capability price that is too high (energy management on herald for instance). We tried replacing my chrono with a support herald too - might cover for a druid with the heals, but it was a huge cup o'nope on boons and ended in a wipe of what shoudl have been a quick clear.. Killing off concentration's very purpose on a chrono, without a replacement.... I'm going ot just leave it here.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:

> Greetings Tyrians!

>

> We are aware that the previous update to Runes and Sigils, coupled with the balance updates released this week, created a situation where boon duration has become a more highly-valued resource.

>

> As you can see in the [December 11 release notes](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62731/game-update-notes-december-11-2018#latest "December 11 release notes"), we’re moving toward a world where various professions are specialized at offering different boons and not all boons can (or should!) be provided by a single profession.

>

> Toward that end, we wanted to let you know that we’re looking at new attribute combinations for the coming year to offer you better options. You may want to watch for those updates before making significant changes to your gear.

>

> Merry Wintersday!

>

> ~GW2 Systems Team

 

That's all good and merry, but i don't think you can have the coverage you imply without changing a lot of fundamental stuff with the game... This really isn't the kind of thing you can fix with a couple balance patches... I mean since HoT released there's been a few months where balance was almost on the spot. Will be fun to see how broken the game will be.

But, well, lets see what you've got. It's not like you've been balancing encounters with the boon output in mind or anything, right?

[Pagan Highlander.5948]

No offense Anet, but this is like you selling us a Car without the engine. You made a huge "Re-Balancing" update that did nothing to balance the classes, but did screw up our builds and ability to play various classes in WvW with some promise for another future update that would fix everything. Personally, I think you should have goteen the input first, and then given us the whole car.

Additionally I'm sorry, but you did not think this through. In WvW, you can't wait for some "possible" future update. you change your equipment, runes, weapons Etc. as needed. otherwise you are just another free bag. So every change IMMEDIATELY affect your ability to play a class or whether to play said class.

[Xstein.2187]

It's very difficult to decipher the messages, but this is what I am thinking.

 

On January 8th we will get new attribute combinations.

**for the upcoming year** doesn't mean it is set in stone for this date, but this matches up with the time between patches from last year (since the devs need a holiday break) and if the update happens too late it's not really "for the upcoming year" as much as "in the upcoming year."

 

This is when we could get the next living world episode since stat combinations are always added with episodes (although it's always possible for a deviation from the past. After all, the rune changes were their own thing)

 

Other balance patch changes will not occur until after January 8th at the VERY earliest - meaning late January the early February.

That's what "The addition of new attribute combinations does not mean that balance updates, re-works and other changes targeting boon diversity will stop" means.

 

I don't necessarily think attribute combinations like primary stat concentration armor will fix these issues. Sooooooo, I guess i'll check in January 22nd to see if the game is worth playing.

 

Happy Holidays Everyone!

[Alimar.8760]

Can we at least get all of our skills that apply boons apply to either 10 or 5 and not mix'n'match them? So many skills are still designed for only 5 people but then Anet has said they do not want mirrored compositions in groups bigger than 5 people. My recommendation would be to set skills to all give boons to 10 or 5 people and none of this arbitrary decisions on which ones affect certain amount of people. If every skill that applied boosts to character affected 10 I'm sure a lot of people would be fine with that.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Morte de Angelis.7986" said:

> Druid used to be the one and only viable Healer. Now there are many.

Only because druid support options are now 10-man. There always were better healers, it's just druid support was more important than better heal.

 

> Chrono (until now) the uncontested King of Support, making Firebrand and Rene a straight downgrade in comparison.

Sure. Because neither firebrand nor renegade was a full support build (fb was a dps/support or heal/support hybrid, while renegade was a healer with support option)

 

> Now hopefully, this will pave the way for other people to do the job that Chrono has been doing for over 3 years.

No other class is even close to be able to fulfill that role

 

> Quickness and Alacrity aren't going away.

They are however much clunkier to apply

 

> You still have powerful CC.

Have you seen how massive the cc nerf for chrono was? I'd definitely not call it powerful now.

 

> I understand that Chrono is not a lot of fun for quite a few people right now and honestly I hope that it'll improve with future patches

More like will get nerfed even more, after anet notices that fb and rng still are bad as a replacement (and apparentl buffing them to be good at it was never an option).

 

> While Chrono might never reach the peak as the one-stop-shop for every boon, I should hope that Anet will continue to change Chrono so that its balanced, not oppressing and over shadowing all and any competition

It's not overshadowing any competition, for the simple reason that it never had any. There's no other full support build in the game. There never was. And it's not going to change even if chrono gets nerfed into obivion - at this point there will simply be no true support builds in the game anymore.

 

 

[plushiesoda.8150]

Deleted in protest of anet leaving support ticket #7495730 without answer since October 10th 2019. It's sad how if this were a money-related issue you'd have answered within a couple of hours. At this point I'm not even mad, but disappointed by the mediocrity displayed by your community managers.

 

 

[Morte de Angelis.7986]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Morte de Angelis.7986" said:

> > Druid used to be the one and only viable Healer. Now there are many.

> Only because druid support options are now 10-man. There always were better healers, it's just druid support was more important than better heal.

>

> > Chrono (until now) the uncontested King of Support, making Firebrand and Rene a straight downgrade in comparison.

> Sure. Because neither firebrand nor renegade was a full support build (fb was a dps/support or heal/support hybrid, while renegade was a healer with support option)

>

> > Now hopefully, this will pave the way for other people to do the job that Chrono has been doing for over 3 years.

> No other class is even close to be able to fulfill that role

>

> > Quickness and Alacrity aren't going away.

> They are however much clunkier to apply

>

> > You still have powerful CC.

> Have you seen how massive the cc nerf for chrono was? I'd definitely not call it powerful now.

>

> > I understand that Chrono is not a lot of fun for quite a few people right now and honestly I hope that it'll improve with future patches

> More like will get nerfed even more, after anet notices that fb and rng still are bad as a replacement (and apparentl buffing them to be good at it was never an option).

>

> > While Chrono might never reach the peak as the one-stop-shop for every boon, I should hope that Anet will continue to change Chrono so that its balanced, not oppressing and over shadowing all and any competition

> It's not overshadowing any competition, for the simple reason that it never had any. There's no other full support build in the game. There never was. And it's not going to change even if chrono gets nerfed into obivion - at this point there will simply be no true support builds in the game anymore.

>

>

 

- Druid Support options used to be 5-man and the only class that could compete was Tempest, and the only reason anyone ever took Tempest was to make Matthias runs easier for pugs. Short of that, it was Druid or Kick for 99% of groups. Now there are a few healers you can choose from to get into quite a few groups with.

- That doesn't change my point that Chrono at least was the Uncontested King of Support. I'd much rather a Full Support FB that could compete with Chrono then a DPS / Healer Support hybrid.

- Right, no class can currently fill the role but hopefully this will make it easier for Anet to balance without having to make classes God tier to do so

- Doesn't change my point

- Even after the CC nerfs it still brings a lot of CC in comparison to a lot of classes

- They probably realised that to make FB / Rene good enough to compete with Chrono they have to buff them an awful lot, Chrono was setting the bar way to high, so rather then try and move the classes up that high and become god tier themselves they decided to bring the bar down

- The fact that it never had any real competition is the problem with the balancing and Anet is trying to fix that

[phs.6089]

> @"rabenpriester.7129" said:

> > @"Morte de Angelis.7986" said:

> >

> > While Chrono might never reach the peak as the one-stop-shop for every boon, I should hope that Anet will continue to change Chrono so that its balanced, not oppressing and over shadowing all and any competition and that it will be fun for the people that liked Chrono to play again.

>

> Yeah, but what until then (if that ever happens)? Play this mess of a class? No thanks, it's not fun. See you in 3 or 4 balance patches. In the meantime, enjoy waiting an eternity for Chronos joining your parties - because there are almost none left putting up with this anymore. Or having a terrible experience playing them without a chrono. Or play them at a low skill level with an unoptimized setup.

>

 

bai-bai. I just had a run with scourge tanking. We didn't wait for crono. Thing is we never needed a crono to get a clear. It was nice to have a crono but not VITAL.

 

But to answer your question: But what till then?

have you ever been on thief or necros forum?Those guys can tell you alot of what to do with your main class 'till then' they have HUGE experience do deal with such things.

P.S I don't even want to start on eles.

[Rod.6581]

Maybe they are preparing us for something like this:

 

(1): +25 Healing

(2): +5% Boon Duration

(3): +50 Healing

(4): +10% Boon Duration

(5): +100 Healing

(6): +125 healing power; when you use a heal skill, you and nearby allies gain quckness for X seconds. (Cooldown: Ys)

or

(6): +125 healing power; when you use your elite skill, you and nearby allies gain quckness for X seconds. (Cooldown: Ys)

 

And like this:

(1): +25 Condition Damage

(2): +5% Boon Duration

(3): +50 Condition Damage

(4): +10% Boon Duration

(5): +100 Condition Damage

(6): +10% Burning Duration; when you use a heal skill, you and nearby allies gain quckness for X seconds. (Cooldown: Ys)

or

(6): +125 healing power; when you use your elite skill, you and nearby allies gain quckness for X seconds. (Cooldown: Ys)

 

Even more, reducing cd on sigil of rage or extending boon duration and:

100% Chance on Critical: Gain Alacrity (X Seconds) (Cooldown: Y Seconds)

 

And let's not forget:

Gain X seconds of Quickness when you swap to this weapon while in combat. (Cooldown: Y seconds)

Gain X seconds of Alacrity when you swap to this weapon while in combat. (Cooldown: Y seconds)

 

And additional options that grant other types of boons.

 

Now THAT would be interesting to see how it works out.

[pii.1890]

I have quite a few problems with the patch policy throughout this year. Since the first changing patch for chrono this year, I've been making my mind about where they are heading with chrono. What I really blame them for: We had three really big changes for chrono since... October? Why?

I am ok with chaos being nerfed, that really was op. But I don't understand taking out lesser SOI (nowadays I understand it even less than in october). I am ok with nerfing cc. But I am not ok with destroying the distribution of quickness and alacrity. That (for me) was and is the main point of having a chrono in your raid.

Many people I know don't really like playing chrono, but they do it, because someone has to if you want to be effective. Befor the october patch, I was highly flexible in gearing and traits, which at least had some fun in it. Since the rune and sigill update, it became even more boring to play chrono. Which I did not think was possible.

Additionally this:

> @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:

> Toward that end, we wanted to let you know that we’re looking at new attribute combinations for the coming year to offer you better options. You may want to watch for those updates before making significant changes to your gear.

This is not an option! Please give us alternatives at the point were you make significant changes.

 

In short:

1. Chaos nerf was ok and necessary. CC nerf is understandable as well.

2. I don't understand taking out lesser SOI. It would make it so much easier to buff five people without being op.

3. Please don't make gear changing patches every month.

4. Please don't make significant balance patches every two months.

 

There are other options too nerf chaos. As others suggested, you could take every boon except quickness and alacrity off soi. Change the shatter trait in chaos, so it isn't that easy to gain every boon. Reduce the boon duration on soi for all boons except q + a.

The cc nerf really impacts only a few bosses (gorse, sloth, samarog), because the shield hit them multiple times.

I still don't understand, why lesser SOI was removed. Can we have it back, please? Or something similar, that doesn't distort, if that was the point of removing it.

Last year, we had balance patches every 3 months. That was ok. It took you a few days to get used to it, but then you could relax for at least 2.5 months. At the moment, it is nearly stressful to keep your build up to date. It is annoying as hell. The other problem is, you have been constantly working in baby steps on the chrono. Which meant, there was a change on the way chrono is played all the time. And it always felt unfinished and in transition mode. Can you please be more considerate with those changes? It is certainly no easy task, but playing the game should still be fun. It is not fun, too play something knowing it is not as it meant to be at the moment and that there will be significant changes soon AGAIN. So make your mind up about what role you want the chrono too fulfill and put it in that position. You should also talk to the community. I bet there are many people out there, that have 1000+ hours of playtime with chrono in raids and have ideas about how to nerf chrono without touching the core functions of it.

And again: If you nerf it, please give us working alternatives at the point you nerf it! I don't see the need too keep up every boon 100% of the time. But there are a few vital ones I don't want to miss.

Thank you.

[Jski.6180]

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048

Please stop making have and have nots classes in this game making one class have a boon only going to make things worst. To the point of if you do not play the right class you cant play with other ppl. There are boons that are stronger then others and in being so more wanted if not out right needed for content. If that boon falls on a few to 1 class then that class will be needed over all others. Comply defeating the point of balancing the game.

[Rod.6581]

I agree, instead of limiting, expand options for all classes.

 

Don't make the changes so we have composition that must have classes A, B, C, D, E in it.

Make it so we need role X, Y, Z, H and classes A, B, C, D can do role X, but classes A, C, D, E can do role Y, classes B, C, D, E can do role Z and classes A, B, E, D can do role H.

 

Don't restrict us, make it more versatile!

[Catchyfx.5768]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Morte de Angelis.7986" said:

> No other class is even close to be able to fulfill that role

>

 

That's the reason behind that nerf, but I think they will come up with something where chrono will be good.

I kinda get your frustration if you fall from godhood to mortalrealm but I truly believe that you get nice stuff :)

 

This whole "lets every one give something and together we have all " is interesting for me. I dont think it will be like some ppl here posted. Warrior for might, this one for this one boon. Might can give almost everybody. It will be fury, protection, retalitation. Every class(E-spec) gets some "Pack of boons" to work with? I think this is good idea.

I would like to see new comps and Im open to some hybrid ones.

And it will be much better to make party description: "Need Alacrity and Heals and protection" then "Need chrono and druid"

[Rod.6581]

> @"Catchyfx.5768" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Morte de Angelis.7986" said:

> > No other class is even close to be able to fulfill that role

> >

>

> That's the reason behind that nerf, but I think they will come up with something where chrono will be good.

> I kinda get your frustration if you fall from godhood to mortalrealm but I truly believe

> This whole "lets every one give something and together we have all " is interesting for me.

 

And I don't find it interesting. I'd prefer they keep Support Only role possible so you can go "everyone gives everything" but can also go "two specific roles can give everything". They just need to make it that more than 2 classes can fit those 2 specific roles.

There are people who like to take healer role. There are people who like to take full support roll. And people that like full dps role.

 

I was among those people who wanted to be able to support on other classes. But I wished we have an option to take any of the following: fb+rene, fb+mes, mes+rene and still provide similar support to 10 people, while leaving option to 7 other people to play whatever they want as long it fits need for specific mechanics.

 

I never wanted to have more "must have" classes in raid.

 

Forcing dps only roles to take some support and support roles to switch to dps with support still doesn't suite everyone and let's not forget they stated multiple times they want us to "Play how we want to".

[UnDeadFun.5824]

This is how I feel exactly and felt it needed more just a thumbs up.

 

> @"Lascax.2163" said:

> New equip stats will not fix that much.

>

> The glaring problem is that this patch is incomplete at the cost of having us waiting a month before playing properly or worse regearing again.

> Also, this boon distribution will most probably make even more slots mandatory in the meta than before, but we don't know so let's have fun finding a new meta for just 3-5 weeks.

>

> Why aren't the wells applied on 10 people?

> Why aren't the wells larger to avoid clunky movement?

> Why can't SoI just share Qck/Alacrity and stays like now for the rest of boons?

>

> This patch was clearly done with the Episode release in mind, but now that is postponed after holidays ( justifiably, ANet Staff need to take this break ), this will leave us with a troubled and clunky gameplay unnecessarily during a period where most people have free time.

> All of this sums up as a clear lack of proper update planning.

 

 

[Catchyfx.5768]

> @"Rod.6581" said:

> > @"Catchyfx.5768" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > @"Morte de Angelis.7986" said:

>

> And I don't find it interesting. I'd prefer they keep Support Only role possible so you can go "everyone gives everything" but can also go "two specific roles can give everything". They just need to make it that more than 2 classes can fit those 2 specific roles.

> There are people who like to take healer role. There are people who like to take full support roll. And people that like full dps role.

>

 

There still be option to go full support (healer) and Full DPS but if every class gets set of boons. I think we both think about same thing.

What about comp:

2 Full support(healer tank, both give some boons, (Regen, prot, Alacrity,aegis) then you get 2-3 classes for missing boons(offensive once just for example,Fury, Retalitation, quickness) and then classic pure dps spots. I would like that.

2 classes remain same and other 2-3-4 just drop some DPS for more boon uptime or there will be way thanks to Heralds Facet of Nature and Chronos Signet to boost this time without much Concentration. It isnt much change. This will help professions without great dmg to get in parties. Better then 2Chrono+1Druid+BS and 6 Mirages or Thieves

 

Lets wait for another changes and then discuss

[perilisk.1874]

They haven't really gotten to the core of the issue, which is that Alacrity is too strong of a boon. It's not only feasible enough to provide permanent uptime so that it's expected and essential to any meta comp, it's also available from only two professions, and it's a general-purpose force multiplier since most skills are cooldown-gated.

 

Might and fury have some of the same issues, but they only boost DPS, and are broadly available.

 

Limited availability supports like auras, barrier, aegis, or alacrity have to be tuned so as to be helpful but situational and not mandatory.

 

How to nerf alacrity without fundamentally changing its concept, though, is tricky. I had a few thoughts on different approaches:

(1) Make the duration dependent on the number of skills on CD, meaning it lasts much longer with one skill on CD than with 6 skills on CD. Maybe boost the rate of CD decrease with this approach, since it's a major nerf for rotation-heavy elite gameplay styles.

(2) Make it stackable, and let each stack drop 10s CD from the next skill used. Makes it more situationally useful, and reduces the extent to which one stat on one person provides so much group power. Downside is it becomes that much more of a force multiplier with Quickness on low-CD semi-spammable skills.

(3) Boost the CD effect a bit, but limit the benefit to heal, utility, and elite skills. Sort of the opposite of option 2.

 

[rabenpriester.7129]

> @"Catchyfx.5768" said:

> Lets wait for another changes and then discuss

 

Okay, let's wait for the "real" balance patch and not play the game until then. :)

[Rod.6581]

> @"Catchyfx.5768" said:

> > @"Rod.6581" said:

> > > @"Catchyfx.5768" said:

> > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > > @"Morte de Angelis.7986" said:

> >

> > And I don't find it interesting. I'd prefer they keep Support Only role possible so you can go "everyone gives everything" but can also go "two specific roles can give everything". They just need to make it that more than 2 classes can fit those 2 specific roles.

> > There are people who like to take healer role. There are people who like to take full support roll. And people that like full dps role.

> >

>

> There still be option to go full support (healer) and Full DPS but if every class gets set of boons. I think we both think about same thing.

> What about comp:

> 2 Full support(healer tank, both give some boons, (Regen, prot, Alacrity,aegis) then you get 2-3 classes for missing boons(offensive once just for example,Fury, Retalitation, quickness) and then classic pure dps spots. I would like that.

> 2 classes remain same and other 2-3-4 just drop some DPS for more boon uptime or there will be way thanks to Heralds Facet of Nature and Chronos Signet to boost this time without much Concentration. It isnt much change. This will help professions without great dmg to get in parties. Better then 2Chrono+1Druid+BS and 6 Mirages or Thieves

>

> Lets wait for another changes and then discuss

 

Nope, I'm not talking about Healer position. I'm thinking support only, as chrono was/is, doing 10k dps but providing enough boons so it's justifiable.

I appreciate that there are/will be bs like roles where you do decent dps while providing support (just to mention that only thing warrior needs to to is place banners on cd), so you can have fb and rene doing each more dps, but with same total team dps, but I want to keep support only role as viable. Also when I'm on dps, I want to be able to focus on dps not worrying if people have enough boons. If anyone wants to eat while running feel free. I like to run and eat separately.

 

On another note while having rene, fb, scourge, tempes goof as off heals, I still haven't found any raid that would like to go with any 2 of the mentioned w/o druid.

 

As for the other changes... As many have already stated - why the hell did they give us only half of the balance AND before holidays, before time most of can spend in game more than usual??? There is a lot I want to say about it but then they will delete this post.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Catchyfx.5768" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Morte de Angelis.7986" said:

> > No other class is even close to be able to fulfill that role

> >

>

> That's the reason behind that nerf, but I think they will come up with something where chrono will be good.

> I kinda get your frustration if you fall from godhood to mortalrealm but I truly believe that you get nice stuff :)

Oh, i play guardian. I just do not want to be forced into a support role just because someone got jealous of chrono. And i definitely don't want the number of spots available for me in a squad to shrink, or hear "go fb or kick".

 

 

[Jski.6180]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Catchyfx.5768" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > @"Morte de Angelis.7986" said:

> > > No other class is even close to be able to fulfill that role

> > >

> >

> > That's the reason behind that nerf, but I think they will come up with something where chrono will be good.

> > I kinda get your frustration if you fall from godhood to mortalrealm but I truly believe that you get nice stuff :)

> Oh, i play guardian. I just do not want to be forced into a support role just because someone got jealous of chrono. And i definitely don't want the number of spots available for me in a squad to shrink, or hear "go fb or kick".

>

>

 

As long as gurd is the only real stab support in the game your never getting away from being that support player that an hidden effect of locking boons to classes. Guardian is more then support and should be able to build as such and to be able to play that way if they want to but you will need to let others classes fill the guardian support roll. Right now only guardian is a viable support when it comes to boons so every one is harmed.

[darwinslittlehelper.7182]

I believe Arenanet is trying to open options rather than one or two 'must' have setups. The ability to easily have all of the boons put most of the weight on one class, and ANet did not do itself any favours by allowing that state to exist for so long. Before previous nerfs to Chronomancer, a good chrono could essentially allow his team to ignore mechanics entirely, through boons and distortion. If this resulted in a highly specialized build to that job to a lesser degree, and perhaps one other job, that could have been a valid option to an encounter. But they did too many jobs too well, deforming everyone's idea of how an encounter could and should be beaten. Now, finally, after several iterations, it has been nerfed. Chrono's current role looks a little more vague currently, but even after the nerfs, still strong. If the patch had been any bigger, how large would the howls of rage be?

 

Likewise, boons and other skills need to be reigned in. Too many skills and traits do too much, too easily. It makes further balancing more difficult, content harder to make interesting, and all the more likely for some broken combination to be used to exploit. I applaud the thinking behind the latest changes, though at least one looks questionable to me 'squints hard at Dolyak Stance' This is clearly only the first of many patches, and for the good of the game, I sincerely want the significant patches to come faster, and be significant. As a note to the systems team and balance team: please pick a power level you wish the professions, skills, traits and elites to operate at. I understand it is an incredibly complex, everchanging chimera, but Hot increased the powerlevel of skills, and traits. PoF greatly did the same. Skills and traits do too much, too easily. Stats and choices have not really kept pace. The recent patch seems to indicate a desire to reign in at least some outliers, so please continue that trend. A general, all over reduction of damage, defenses, and multipart skills would be useful balancing option.

 

 

Despite what some would have us believe, there is not 'one way to rule them all' Other options exist, and at least several of those options should be valid. Boons are currently out of hand. Time to reel them in.