Holy kitten, thank you Anet team for a great story this episode! (Spoilers!)

[googel.3278]

Final Fantasy makes GW2 look like a pebble. People playing GW2 often worships these fashion skins, so ofc the story isnt going to be good.

[Okami Amaterasu.9237]

> @"googel.3278" said:

> Final Fantasy makes GW2 look like a pebble. People playing GW2 often worships these fashion skins, so ofc the story isnt going to be good.

 

There are good parts and bad parts to every story; the authors are only human after all. Unless you think there is a "perfect story" for the MMORPG genre to base itself around, I'll look at things circumstantially and not just make blanket statements about any game's story as a whole, especially without speaking any evidence. What parts do you not like and what do you think can be done better next time?

[Talindra.4958]

> @"Okami Amaterasu.9237" said:

> > @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > This sound sarcastic... The whole thing was like a big joke. I dont like any of the story. There's so many ways to end this.. they have picked the easiest.

>

> You would have preferred if we had killed Kralkatorrik right then and there? When he had just consumed Even More Magic after Balthazar's death by going into the Mists and consuming that magic there? What a way to diffuse any Weight behind the story if we could just kill him so easily the very first try after "he's even more powerful now!".

>

> The whole Destiny's Edge team (except Logan who had a date with Jenna) along with Glint herself (who was far more experienced than Aurene) couldn't defeat Kralkatorrik when he was just the Crystal Dragon. Now he is the Crystal + Plant/Mind + Death/Shadow + Balthazar (Bloodstone, Primordus, Jormag, Mists) + more Mists - Dragon. You think we can beat him with just most of Dragon's Watch (where are you Marjory and Kasmeer?), the allies we've gained since Path of Fire and LWS4 (which amounts to about the same number of people as the Pact before they launched their fleet into Verdant Brink and still lost, against Just the Jungle Dragon), and an adolescent, inexperienced Aurene? Aurene even had a vision of all of the futures where she faces Kralkatorrik right now and she Died in every single one of them. We rushed it.

>

> Do you think after all of that if we had won it would have been a better story?

> Do you think if we had lost but had no actual consequences for losing, it'd be a better story?

>

> Personally, I'm really satisfied with this ending as it leaves us confused, saddened, and now even more vengeful against Kralkatorrik, whom we still have to deal with before he ultimately Brands over Tyria. I'm excited to see how Aurene's death affects everyone, how it affects their perception of us and our judgement, and how we're going to manage to bring everyone together again to fight Kralkatorrik once more, but killing him For Good this time. Also, we need to see his whole body. Until we see his whole body, I'll think we're gonna lose in that fight. Anyway, time to explore more of the new map, so see y'all there!

 

No.. I don't prefer we defeat the elder dragon right there in such a short time.

[Bast Bow.2958]

Pretty marvelous writing this is. (trying) To get players somewhat emotionally attached to Aurene and then letting her die. Now who DOESN'T want to play the next episode to see what's up next? Bravo Anet. This isn't sarcasm btw.

Personality I really do hope she'll revive in some way. But it shouldn't happen too much to main characters, you'll withhold getting fond of a character if main characters are dropping by the bunch but also getting revived again. People get trust issues and it’ll lose a certain depth. That shouldn't happen.

[Chasind.3128]

_My complaint: **I waited this long for this little of a story**?_ And on top of that, doing the same things --gathering, tasks, nothing new for this new content. The story was OKAY at best. It was predictable what was going to happen, if you've followed the very short past instances you knew and know what is going to occur. It's like a Thanos with the Gauntlet scenario-- what is dead wont stay dead

 

_**I've felt no real attachment to any of the characters**_, there isn't much to them that makes you feel warm and fuzzy or struck in a way that some characters do to you. If anyone has played any game of any relevance with an amazing story (like baldurs gate or even elder scrolls or dragon age) You'd know what I meant. There is a lack of that in this game.

 

I wasn't in awe or sad really, it sucked a little but we all knew it was coming. I wasn't shook like everyone seems to be, I don't understand why.

 

**Where was I supposed to be wow'd with this**? I'm not trolling or hating... it's just I don't think this game harbors interest in my kind of playerbase anymore and it favors more so to the 2 hour sunday player.

[Donari.5237]

> @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > @"Wizler.8192" said:

> > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > Well, last episode we learned that we shouldn't kill anymore dragons because it's bad for the world. Soooo....we go out and try to kill another dragon.

> >

> > I always expected that Aurene would replace Kralkatorrik which made it safe to kill him (she would absorb his magic to prevent world instability). And of course she was on our side which made it safe.

> >

>

> Sure but just because you or I might meta-think that one through, doesn't justify what our characters do. There is no indication of our character and the alliance around them having that discussion. So we learned we shouldn't kill anymore dragons and then we go out to kill another one just the same. Without a reason in the story to change our mind on that, the plan was just to go out and kill another dragon and that's a pretty daft thing to do.

 

I am pretty sure it was directly spelled out in the PoF and subsequent stories that the Commander and friends were thinking Aurene (and Vlast, before we lost him) could stand in to help with the balance of magic. Based on the vision of the pyramid, anyway. I hope Sevifor can find the specifics.

[Gehenna.3625]

> @"Donari.5237" said:

> > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > @"Wizler.8192" said:

> > > > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > > > Well, last episode we learned that we shouldn't kill anymore dragons because it's bad for the world. Soooo....we go out and try to kill another dragon.

> > >

> > > I always expected that Aurene would replace Kralkatorrik which made it safe to kill him (she would absorb his magic to prevent world instability). And of course she was on our side which made it safe.

> > >

> >

> > Sure but just because you or I might meta-think that one through, doesn't justify what our characters do. There is no indication of our character and the alliance around them having that discussion. So we learned we shouldn't kill anymore dragons and then we go out to kill another one just the same. Without a reason in the story to change our mind on that, the plan was just to go out and kill another dragon and that's a pretty daft thing to do.

>

> I am pretty sure it was directly spelled out in the PoF and subsequent stories that the Commander and friends were thinking Aurene (and Vlast, before we lost him) could stand in to help with the balance of magic. Based on the vision of the pyramid, anyway. I hope Sevifor can find the specifics.

 

Well it is entirely possible that I missed it or just had a different interpretation/expectation of what was said because they made such a big deal out of not killing dragons anymore before that. I do have a vague memory of this now that it was mentioned but it clearly didn't make much of an impression on me lol.

[Tachenon.5270]

My thought was that Aurene somehow magicked her mind into Kralkatorrik's body and the real battle is taking place there.

[Carighan.6758]

It's interesting, I had nearly the opposite reaction. To me this is a *really* bad episode. Not in idea, the ending idea is neat. The execution however:

 

* The ending also lacks emotional impact. The key death we were foretold. That we lost... umm... we do that a lot? HoT beginning? Fleet entirely wasted? Important character deaths happen frequently? Defense of Lion's Arch and it getting destroyed? It's nothing truly special, pretty as it was.

* Most of the instances are terribly confusing due to the characters chatting in-realtime during the instance. While combat is ongoing. And colors flashing everywhere. I had to turn off most sounds just so I could actually follow what was happening.

* There's no epilogue at all once you come out of the final instance. Nothing changed. Where's the big thing which just happened?

* Ogden is an even worse Deus Ex Machina than Taimi is. And "the time wasn't right"? Oh yeah until Joko is dead, I forgot that's part of the "tell Heroes about Ultimate Weapon"-checklist, how silly of me, kill that which has no life is of course on there! :joy:

* Way too much is automated. Combat feels weird, it should be oppressive, but everything just dies randomly because nothing is ever clearly shown due to the amount of purple flashing.

* We have big K sitting there and yet we... get asked to look away from him. Most of the time.

* Typical yak-shaving story, to do X we have to get Y done for which we need Z but we only get Z by helping A do B, bla bla. We're the *Commander*! Order minions to do it! Oversee minions doing it! Get stuff done!

* The whole Caithe thing? Leftover art assets or what was that about? Lasted about 7 minutes I think though I didn't check the clock, granted.

 

I would say if the very ending was the same but everything else changed, I think it'd be really good. But the way it is, it files in the typical "good idea, bad execution" I see so often in this game's story :pensive:

[Okami Amaterasu.9237]

> @"Carighan.6758" said:

> It's interesting, I had nearly the opposite reaction. To me this is a *really* bad episode. Not in idea, the ending idea is neat. The execution however:

>

> * The ending also lacks emotional impact. The key death we were foretold. That we lost... umm... we do that a lot? HoT beginning? Fleet entirely wasted? Important character deaths happen frequently? Defense of Lion's Arch and it getting destroyed? It's nothing truly special, pretty as it was.

 

We haven't had many important character deaths since Heart of Thorns. The people that died since HoT, as far as I can remember, were Demmi and Caudecus Beetlestone, Lazarus, Vlast, Ourself, Balthazar, Joko, and Blish. Out of those people, Balthazar and Joko were the most important, but they were both villains and we eventually Expected them to die. We didn't get to know Vlast all too well until after he died with his memory crystals and the Kesho instance. Blish was a nice character but he was just introduced in Ep 2 and then killed in Ep 4 while Gorrik is still available for further development. So I don't know what you mean when you say important character deaths happen frequently.

 

Aurene has been with us however, technically since LWS2. More accurately it has been since Ep 2 of LWS3 when we saw her being born and hatched from the egg. We've seen her grow up and personally helped trained her; we've seen her be in serious peril and also come to help us when we needed it. I was beginning to worry that Aurene would become "the face of GW2" since she's been with us for so long, but it's all been building up to the moment when she dies. The theme for the past two episodes has been specifically that Aurene is our hope, our "star to guide us". We cannot defeat Kralkatorrik without her . . . but she dies anyway just like in her vision, no matter how much we didn't want to believe it. If that is not even just slightly emotionally impactful, if not at least shocking/surprising, then maybe you just didn't care for her anyway?

 

> * Most of the instances are terribly confusing due to the characters chatting in-realtime during the instance. While combat is ongoing. And colors flashing everywhere. I had to turn off most sounds just so I could actually follow what was happening.

 

Yeah I admit, it can be a little hectic, especially the first time around. Maybe turn off post-processing in the graphics options so it isn't as brightly shiny and distracting if you want to hear every word of dialogue the first time you run through it?

 

> * There's no epilogue at all once you come out of the final instance. Nothing changed. Where's the big thing which just happened?

 

"The big thing" that just happened was Aurene's Death. There's no epilogue because it's meant to be a moment of confusion, hopelessness, etc. Braham even asks aloud "What do we do now?" and we say "I don't know . . ." because it's a confusing, heartbreaking moment. We've put all our hope into Aurene until now and she Just died in front of us, ultimately because of us. It's not Meant to be immediately resolved afterwards with a scene that tells us where we're going next or what to do next.

 

> * Ogden is an even worse Deus Ex Machina than Taimi is. And "the time wasn't right"? Oh yeah until Joko is dead, I forgot that's part of the "tell Heroes about Ultimate Weapon"-checklist, how silly of me, kill that which has no life is of course on there! :joy:

 

We don't know if Ogden even knows that Joko is dead (unless he has dialogue in the open world that I missed). He might have been waiting for Aurene and her champion to come to him when they thought they were ready to take on Kralkatorrik and needed advice on how to go about it. Even if he should have been in the story earlier, it's nowhere near a deus-ex-machina, especially not on the level of Taimi during Flashpoint in LWS3. Besides, "it's good to see him" anyway.

 

> * Way too much is automated. Combat feels weird, it should be oppressive, but everything just dies randomly because nothing is ever clearly shown due to the amount of purple flashing.

 

Well, in the instance you have a lot of allied NPCs fighting the branded alongside you, and a battle isn't always "clear", naturally. But maybe you can adjust your settings so the branded effects don't bother you as much?

 

> * We have big K sitting there and yet we... get asked to look away from him. Most of the time.

 

None of the objectives are timed, so you can stand there and look at Kralk gnashing and roaring at Aurene fighting him as long as you want, if you don't die to the branded mobs around you. Besides that, you get to fly over him twice cinematically just to get the scale and size of his head and neck compared to the giant room/chamber that you've trapped him in. You also fight his Eye directly and get a cutscene right afterwards that clearly shows him trying to kill you. Sure, we don't see his whole body, but since he's still alive and we're going to fight him again, we probably will once we're ready.

 

> * Typical yak-shaving story, to do X we have to get Y done for which we need Z but we only get Z by helping A do B, bla bla. We're the *Commander*! Order minions to do it! Oversee minions doing it! Get stuff done!

 

You'd rather play a game where you order around your "minions" to go out and explore the new map and do events and help people instead of actually doing it yourself? That sounds more like a strategy game to me than an RPG . . .

 

 

> * The whole Caithe thing? Leftover art assets or what was that about? Lasted about 7 minutes I think though I didn't check the clock, granted.

 

It gives Caithe some development as a character to be Aurene's "herald" or such. It gave her a purpose so we could reintroduce her back into the story this episode. Since Aurene is dead, however, things will have to change for Caithe next time. Maybe she's not "developing" or really "changing" much personality-wise, but would you rather have her just show up and join in the story for no reason and not change at all?

 

> I would say if the very ending was the same but everything else changed, I think it'd be really good. But the way it is, it files in the typical "good idea, bad execution" I see so often in this game's story :pensive:

 

Everything else? You mean the other two instances? I think the first instance could've gone a little faster and/or added music, sure. I think the second instance was well-done and had a nice cutscene with Caithe and Aurene. Both of those instances developed the story/plot further so they're not "pointless" or anything. What would you want changed? The open-world stuff is meant to help extend the episode's playtime just a little. It also gives us a reason to explore parts of the new map and participate in the open world instead of just going from instance-instance-instance, done. How would you do it differently?

[PseudoNewb.5468]

> @"Carighan.6758" said:

> * There's no epilogue at all once you come out of the final instance. Nothing changed. Where's the big thing which just happened?

 

I think Living Story episodes are more like chapters than episodes. What I mean is, it will probably be more cohesive to play them in a continuous form along with the expansion content. Season 2, and 3 also have the problem of kinda simply being rather long prologues to the expansion packs. PoF didn't really end neatly, so season 4 seems to be the extension to it, instead of being used to lead up to future content. If the next episode ties everything up for the crystal dragon, as I think many people expect, then season 4 will finally be a season where we end major plot lines instead of simply running into the next paid content. It would be nice to have a Season end properly (like Season 1 :grimace:). Basically, because these are more like chapters in a book, rather than a narrative episode, they don't alone, make a well rounded narrative or story. I'd have to guess this is basically the penultimate chapter in a story, the climax, so... the epilogue, and resolution, will be the next episode... unfortunately, around 3 months away :disappointed: .

[SnowHawk.3615]

what was so great about it?

all the commander is anyways in an errand girl/boy while watching other peoples events unfold from the sidelines and waiting to clean up everyone else's mess.

was too short- and it felt rushed.

 

 

[Carighan.6758]

> @"Okami Amaterasu.9237" said:

> "The big thing" that just happened was Aurene's Death. There's no epilogue because it's meant to be a moment of confusion, hopelessness, etc. Braham even asks aloud "What do we do now?" and we say "I don't know . . ." because it's a confusing, heartbreaking moment.

 

Uh, actually... what we do is go right back to farming events and doing dailies, including the ones in the very zone. Plus right after we zone out, everything is unchanged and back to normal, so it's trivial to forget about any emotional impact there might have been.

 

> @"Okami Amaterasu.9237" said:

> Everything else? You mean the other two instances? I think the first instance could've gone a little faster and/or added music, sure. I think the second instance was well-done and had a nice cutscene with Caithe and Aurene. Both of those instances developed the story/plot further so they're not "pointless" or anything. What would you want changed? The open-world stuff is meant to help extend the episode's playtime just a little. It also gives us a reason to explore parts of the new map and participate in the open world instead of just going from instance-instance-instance, done. How would you do it differently?

 

No I meant, the fact that Aurene dies for naught because well, we got told if we just attack Kralky then that'd happen, and we did, and it happened (another part why I didn't feel there was much emotional impact, we clearly got told this would happen, it even was a big thing at the time).

 

But hrm, how would I do it different... it's not easy to think about because I dislike the basic structure of how GW2 releases the story. But I would focus on the part where the Commander is forced to take action they don't want to (since we know it'll kill Aurene), and then on the gravity of it. More logistics, diplomacy, no fetch quests, no constant handholding individual NPCs. Show how big a thing this is.

 

Ideally play with how difficult this is, too. Make us miss important parts of the fight because we're busy getting a huge multi-facetted army into gear. Make us in fact lose parts of the preparation due to that. Force the Commander to do the risky thing. This'd drive the part where we are too cocky home much better because the player feels like they **want** to go smash things, since the game actively kept them away from the action now. I didn't **ever** feel "Oh yay, go smash Kralky!" in this episode, it just felt... boring? Samey? The visuals are different but I just keep hammering on whatever has a red name? The final fight versus Balthazar felt a lot better, and that one was already... meh.

 

And most importantly: Change the last ending, the part where you walk. What a way to toss out the potential grievance from the Commander willingly sacrificing Aurene when they know it'll kill her. It should show our allies abandoning us. We should have seen them trying to stop us, other than Canach's usual and by-now-ignored "this is a shitty plan"-comments. And in the end they should be - rightfully - angry. Bonus points if due to the instance overlapping we no longer see our allies around the zone afterwards.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Chasind.3128" said:

> _My complaint: **I waited this long for this little of a story**?_ [...]

 

I completely agree on this.

 

> _**I've felt no real attachment to any of the characters**_ [...]

 

Over the years, I have grown fond of some of them, although I agree: the character writing can't compete with the likes of Dragon Age: Origins (love your user name btw ;) ). It has a lot to do with the modern slang used in GW2 (tongue-in-cheek also does not help getting attached emotionally) and the stereotypical behavior of many of the characters (for instance, Rytlock has been a constant grumpy whiner for years, and it's just very annoying).

 

> **Where was I supposed to be wow'd with this**? I'm not trolling or hating... it's just I don't think this game harbors interest in my kind of playerbase anymore and it favors more so to the 2 hour sunday player.

 

I was expecting more in terms of length regarding this episode and was more shocked that it was over so soon than I was with the unpleasant results. ;)

[Sariel V.7024]

I just want to give a big FUCK YOU to the jackass that blurted the ending out in map chat last night.

[Exatherion.3075]

To the players that ragequit the game:

 

If you haven't noticed Aurene actually saw it happened in the last Episode. That's what she was afraid of. All visions come more or less true.... Just don't forget that the crystal shattered after she was impaled in her last vision..... Before you complain that the game is over search for the obvious breadcrumbs the devs gave us. Rewatch what Kormir said in PoF, compare it to what the Gods said in the mission where you have to kill Shiro and the Lich and GW1. All that is no coincidence.

 

Death doesnt mean it's over, neither is Aurene "dead" in the way you understand that word. Joko was also "dead". We ourselves also came back to life. I wouldn't try to apply your cultural mask to the lore of GW2. Just remember that one is only truly dead if he's killed on a Bloodstone? It's not how things work in that world. Also the barrier to the mists is shifting. Grenth isn't anymore there, and remember that Grenth is justice not death itself.

 

Play GW2 as if you read a really good book, don't think about that death is for you, but what it means for the characters in the game world. If you complain that she "died" it's similar to not reading the Tolkiens books, then complain that Gandalf died in Moria.... So you won't watch the other Movies :P