We're never going back to Sun's Refuge

[TexZero.7910]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> That seems like a fair summary, except for festivals, which now evolve.

Unless the festival is name SAB in which case it doesn't.

 

W3 and W4 are long overdue.

 

[Gehenna.3625]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Gehenna.3625" said:

> > Yeah but being a life long skeptic, I always wonder if that's the whole story.

> Near as I can tell, if ANet wants us to be skeptical, they say nothing. If they say something, it's because that's the actual story.

>

> Of course plenty of businesses lie or stretch the truth past reason. But with this company, with one (possible) exception, I've never caught them out in revisionist history in the way implied above, at least based on comments they've made officially. (I'll send you a PM about the case I'm unsure about for reasons that will make sense.) Still, it's up to you decide based on the evidence as you find it, not as it looks to me.

 

Well, saying something could also be a way of appeasing something. In this case it just seems to me that they built something that was unnecessary for its purpose. A simple part of the zone that needs to be unlocked via the story would've done the trick without all the extra work needed to create this instance and everything attached to it. It just seems too elaborate for what it does, that's all. I mean it doesn't really matter since ideas get started and cut all the time. This one just seems a bit more obvious because it's unusual in the sense that it offers potential that is not intended and then I wonder, why go through the effort unless more was intended? That's all.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"HnRkLnXqZ.1870" said:

> That is not quite right.

>

> _**The following stuff contains spoilers about Heart of Thorns, Living Story Season 3 and Living Story Season 4**_

>

 

> During Heart of Thorns, after reaching Tarir in Auric Basin we first get access to the Inner Chamber, which quickly becomes the Egg Chamber.

>

> At the end of Rising Flames (LS3 E2) we return to the Egg Chamber, for another story part.

>

> During A Crack in the Ice (LS3 E3) we do our first trials with the small and cute Aurene and get the Exalted Portal Stone as reward. This grants us access to the Inner Chamber once again and allows us to play with Aurene. There are a couple Achievements tied to the instance, including the acquisition of the Aurene Mini and the Cultural Attaché which adds a few very unique decorations to the instance.

>

> That is one example of a home-like instance that was re-used over and over. In addition I want do mention, that the progress done in Cultural Attaché was transfered to the Sun's Refuge once you decided to help Taimi building the nest. The platforms moved to the new resting place, progress saved.

>

> And thinking about the next steps ...

>

> We have created and rebuilt the Sun's Refuge to be a ... well refuge for the lost and people who have no hope left. Aside from Canach, who is probably heading straight to the Casino of Amnoon for more drinks he can handle, I assume the rest of Dragon's Watch will head directly to Sun's Refuge. There is literally no other place they can go to. It is one of the few places, not even Kralk can reach.

>

> Also a couple of people have not been present during the Assault on Kralk, like Koss & Kossan or our beloved couple. So yeah, I think we are about to visit the Sun's Refuge at least once more.

>

 

 

Correct analysis. Let's hope you are right!

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Kal Spiro.9745" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Kal Spiro.9745" said:

> > > There is a built in flaw to the way ArenaNet is providing us with content. We can't ever reuse any of it. Because the zones aren't connected to the main maps in a free form way (even if there is a gate to the zone it has to be unlocked to use it,) we can't travel to the zone just because it exists, therefore it only exists if we've unlocked it. This means they can't ever link a previous map to a future chapter. Sun's Refuge is an even more extreme version of this because we went through a lot of trouble during that chapter to make it livable. Since they can't assume that a player has already played through all previous content, they can't assume Sun's Refuge is even functional, let alone unlocked, let alone part of a map that's been unlocked. Since they can't make that assumption, we can't expect to ever have new content there.

> > >

> >

> > Not sure why that's a problem. It's not like those maps are lacking content to begin with. In otherwords, the sole reason those maps exist is to provide the content, not to be a backdrop for future content. That means in theory, they should be so full of content, people will want to own them and the only complaint we should have is when new LS maps are lacking content. Up until Thunderhead, I never felt any LS map didn't provide enough things to do.

>

> The reason it's a problem is because they can't.

 

Seems to me that's not a problem ... if the map is infinitely scale-able, then they don't have to go back to any map to add story content to it.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"HnRkLnXqZ.1870" said:

> That is not quite right.

>

> _**The following stuff contains spoilers about Heart of Thorns, Living Story Season 3 and Living Story Season 4**_

>

 

> During Heart of Thorns, after reaching Tarir in Auric Basin we first get access to the Inner Chamber, which quickly becomes the Egg Chamber.

>

> At the end of Rising Flames (LS3 E2) we return to the Egg Chamber, for another story part.

>

> During A Crack in the Ice (LS3 E3) we do our first trials with the small and cute Aurene and get the Exalted Portal Stone as reward. This grants us access to the Inner Chamber once again and allows us to play with Aurene. There are a couple Achievements tied to the instance, including the acquisition of the Aurene Mini and the Cultural Attaché which adds a few very unique decorations to the instance.

>

> That is one example of a home-like instance that was re-used over and over. In addition I want do mention, that the progress done in Cultural Attaché was transfered to the Sun's Refuge once you decided to help Taimi building the nest. The platforms moved to the new resting place, progress saved.

>

> And thinking about the next steps ...

>

> We have created and rebuilt the Sun's Refuge to be a ... well refuge for the lost and people who have no hope left. Aside from Canach, who is probably heading straight to the Casino of Amnoon for more drinks he can handle, I assume the rest of Dragon's Watch will head directly to Sun's Refuge. There is literally no other place they can go to. It is one of the few places, not even Kralk can reach.

>

> Also a couple of people have not been present during the Assault on Kralk, like Koss & Kossan or our beloved couple. So yeah, I think we are about to visit the Sun's Refuge at least once more.

>

 

>

There's a main difference. Sun's Refuge is not placed in the expac content, but in a LS map. Someone playing LS3 is certain to have access to HoT maps, because HoT is required to play ls3. Someone playing future LS episodes is not certain to have access to Jahai Bluffs. That's why there's not a chance anything important will take a place here. At best they might add some side content (like changing some dialogs), but all major storyline points will be self-contained within maps the player is 100% sure to have at that moment (so, core, last expac, and the relevant LS map tied to the episode). If they'll ever want to add something like Sun's Refuge, but more lasting, it will have to be something not tied to an LS episode purchase.

 

That's the main flaw with their LS design at the moment.

[Kal Spiro.9745]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"HnRkLnXqZ.1870" said:

> > That is not quite right.

> >

> > _**The following stuff contains spoilers about Heart of Thorns, Living Story Season 3 and Living Story Season 4**_

> >

 

> > During Heart of Thorns, after reaching Tarir in Auric Basin we first get access to the Inner Chamber, which quickly becomes the Egg Chamber.

> >

> > At the end of Rising Flames (LS3 E2) we return to the Egg Chamber, for another story part.

> >

> > During A Crack in the Ice (LS3 E3) we do our first trials with the small and cute Aurene and get the Exalted Portal Stone as reward. This grants us access to the Inner Chamber once again and allows us to play with Aurene. There are a couple Achievements tied to the instance, including the acquisition of the Aurene Mini and the Cultural Attaché which adds a few very unique decorations to the instance.

> >

> > That is one example of a home-like instance that was re-used over and over. In addition I want do mention, that the progress done in Cultural Attaché was transfered to the Sun's Refuge once you decided to help Taimi building the nest. The platforms moved to the new resting place, progress saved.

> >

> > And thinking about the next steps ...

> >

> > We have created and rebuilt the Sun's Refuge to be a ... well refuge for the lost and people who have no hope left. Aside from Canach, who is probably heading straight to the Casino of Amnoon for more drinks he can handle, I assume the rest of Dragon's Watch will head directly to Sun's Refuge. There is literally no other place they can go to. It is one of the few places, not even Kralk can reach.

> >

> > Also a couple of people have not been present during the Assault on Kralk, like Koss & Kossan or our beloved couple. So yeah, I think we are about to visit the Sun's Refuge at least once more.

> >

 

> >

> There's a main difference. Sun's Refuge is not placed in the expac content, but in a LS map. Someone playing LS3 is certain to have access to HoT maps, because HoT is required to play ls3. Someone playing future LS episodes is not certain to have access to Jahai Bluffs. That's why there's not a chance anything important will take a place here. At best they might add some side content (like changing some dialogs), but all major storyline points will be self-contained within maps the player is 100% sure to have at that moment (so, core, last expac, and the relevant LS map tied to the episode). If they'll ever want to add something like Sun's Refuge, but more lasting, it will have to be something not tied to an LS episode purchase.

>

> That's the main flaw with their LS design at the moment.

 

Exactly

[miraude.2107]

They could have easily remedied this if they had redone home instances in a way to make them a 'main hub' instead of a farming place. One of the reasons why I advocate Kralk flat attacking all the main cities (LA gets a reprieve....this time) so that they can get a redesign (like DR really needs it with how cramped everything is there) and a better purpose. Honestly wish they had learned from WoW. Did all that work in the Garrison to abandon it in Legion. Did all that work on your Class Hall and weapon? Oop sorry, not relevant in Battle of Azeroth.

They should either redo the home instance like I suggested, or, huge thought here MAKE THE KITTEN ORDERS IMPORTANT AGAIN. I didn't watch Tybalt die to just to abandon the Order of Whispers. I'm not the Commander anymore, I was 'kicked' out by the Pact remember? Let me go back to mah roots. All the orders home bases are on core maps like the home instances and they could easily just zone a part off like with the Black Lion passes (The Lily of the Elon can be seen but not entered if you don't have the pass) where we can operate and update as needed.

I'd even take something similar to the Guild Halls. Let me work my butt off doing solo missions and establish a place on a certain map (give us 3 choices or whatev) that when we go to meet everyone it's at the Dragon's Watch guild hall. It gets updated with new flourishes each episode like decorations and whatnot can invite people in to show off the Zhatain statue, an Exalted helm, Balth's broken chest armor, a joko bust and all earned by doing a set number of achievements, etc.