We NEED a major rework!

[Burnfall.9573]

> @BurrTheKing.8571 said:

> Things have finally hit critical mass in PvP. Heart of Thorns lit the tinder and Path of Fire spread the blaze to the whole forest. The state of PvP is such a mess that small tweaks and adjustments every four to six months won't solve the problem. The issues are buried deep, and it's not just a problem with the individual class balance.

>

> So long as the majority of capture points remain small circles classes with many AoEs will be easy to land and highly rewarding. Fighting a Scourge in an open area is not nearly as difficult as it is in a side point. Full Counter on Spellbreaker is fairly easy to avoid 1v1 but in the chaos of a point battle it's almost impossible to avoid triggering it.

>

> I only see two possibilities to address this, either you redesign conquest with larger points and make it so that the team with more players in point start capturing like in Battlefield, or you replace the mode in ranked completely with a new mode. Perhaps something simple like round based TDM; leaving the old conquest in unranked.

>

> Class balance is still a major issue however. Skill cooldowns are too low and activation times are too fast. Perhaps this is less of a problem at the highest levels, but that level is limited to a few dozen players. Combat in GW1 was satisfying because each skill mattered. GW2 has much better feeling combat in terms of mobility and fluidity but years of power creep have sped the game up to the point where fights don't look like anything other than a giant mess and all of those beautiful animations and effects can't be seen in their full glory most of the time.

>

> Every class needs to be toned down across the board, no exceptions. Some traits that seem near mandatory need to either be removed and class mechanics need to be adjusted, or they need to be made baseline and every class gets something. Now, in a way that's also power creep, but what fun is a game like this when your build is basically designed for you because playing a Warrior with no 5 second weapon swap or a Thief without extra initiative is generally weaker than a build with those traits. The main things that need toning down are CC and the ease of Condi application. As far as PvP is concerned conditions should be damage over time, not just another form of burst damage. I understand why they are like they are in PvE, but not in PvP. As far as CC is concerned, big stuns and knockdowns are fine so long as they are highly telegraphed. With larger areas to fight, it'll be much easier to avoid getting chained.

>

> I want to see PvP succeed, but with the way things are now the gameplay isn't engaging. It feels more like you're fighting the game as opposed to other players. The game mode redesigns are in my opinion more important than the balance changes, but in order for PvP to reach its potential is needs work on both ends.

>

>

 

You nailed it.

[choovanski.5462]

> @BurrTheKing.8571 said:

> > @choovanski.5462 said:

> > yeah, but how valuable is a full rework going to be if it's done by the same dev team who created the current mess were in?

> >

> > I feel like we need something we will never get.

>

> It seems like the real problem is that no one is dedicated specifically to PvP balance. They're always trying to balance for all modes at the same time. This clearly isn't working and it's time for there to be someone dedicated to PvP balance only and for there to be a ton of skill splits. They don't even have to change the functionality in most cases, just numbers.

>

> They'll need to make even fewer changes of we get a different game mode or a rework to conquest.

>

 

what we really need is a private server with community balance patches tbh. a lot of strategy games move to this after they lose Dev support, and it usually results in a much better game.

 

I honestly don't trust anet to fix this mess at this point. I don't think they have the will, or even the staff to do it.

 

we really just need Sind, Phanta, Helseth etc to do a roundtable balance debate/cast. then have the changes pushed live. it's how we would get the most competitive and fun meta.

 

but hey, we won't. we just have to option to watch this gamemode fade out.

yeah, it's not hopeful but dang man- they don't even have a PvP balance team. what should we be hoping for lol? a golden ticket tour of Hogwarts?

[Master Ketsu.4569]

The best way to understand the problems GW2 has is to look at other games that don't have the same problems. This reveals that the root cause is passive defenses that are WAY too strong and active defenses aren't as good.

 

Passive defenses for example like Engies gaining elixer below X% health, Warriors gaining immunities below X% health, Guardians having 10+ different passive ways to automatically gain aegis. In other games, passives that automatically save you from death are severely restricted because they break the flow of the game. But in GW2, since *every* class has these things no one has properly identified them as a problem when they are in fact the biggest flaw in how GW2 combat works. These passives need huge nerfs, not small ones. They should be 5 minute recharges at least. There are way too many of these and it's possible for some classes to spec 5+ at once in their build which is just absolutely ridiculous. What this creates is a very strange feeling of low-risk low-reward. The risk of doing anything is low because there are plenty of get out of jail free cards to save you, and the reward is also low because when you successfully land a good combo chain on another player there is a solid chance they also have a get out of jail free passive up. The result is just unsatisfying and boring gameplay.

 

Then to make up for it, buff active defenses. Lower cooldowns for blocking skills that you actually have to press. Consider a possible endurance regen buff of 25% across the board. The result would be that combos would be harder to land, but would be more rewarding for doing so. There would also be a lot less spam in the game since passive defenses allow people to attack and defend at the same time which is another problem.

 

[BurrTheKing.8571]

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> The best way to understand the problems GW2 has is to look at other games that don't have the same problems. This reveals that the root cause is passive defenses that are WAY too strong and active defenses aren't as good.

>

> Passive defenses for example like Engies gaining elixer below X% health, Warriors gaining immunities below X% health, Guardians having 10+ different passive ways to automatically gain aegis. In other games, passives that automatically save you from death are severely restricted because they break the flow of the game. But in GW2, since *every* class has these things no one has properly identified them as a problem when they are in fact the biggest flaw in how GW2 combat works. These passives need huge nerfs, not small ones. They should be 5 minute recharges at least. There are way too many of these and it's possible for some classes to spec 5+ at once in their build which is just absolutely ridiculous. What this creates is a very strange feeling of low-risk low-reward. The risk of doing anything is low because there are plenty of get out of jail free cards to save you, and the reward is also low because when you successfully land a good combo chain on another player there is a solid chance they also have a get out of jail free passive up. The result is just unsatisfying and boring gameplay.

>

> Then to make up for it, buff active defenses. Lower cooldowns for blocking skills that you actually have to press. Consider a possible endurance regen buff of 25% across the board. The result would be that combos would be harder to land, but would be more rewarding for doing so. There would also be a lot less spam in the game since passive defenses allow people to attack and defend at the same time which is another problem.

>

 

We're going to have to heavily nerf damage across the board if we want to remove the get out of jail free cards. Right now they are unfortunately the only thing keeping you from getting 1 shot in many cases. Damage in general just seems crazy high.

[xeonage.1253]

*You Break the balance. The Balance break you.*

This game is kill by their skill designer. Now the seed grown to be a catastrophe, the roots have been long and deep, no one can help and change.

I have leave this fucking game and happy to see what will going on.

[chibbi.3706]

> @Vagrant.7206 said:

> This is part of why new game modes need to be introduced. Capture the flag, juggernaut, king of the hill, deathmatch, objective-based, etc. Each one places a different burden on the classes. Currently, conquest favors the big AoE classes, but a capture the flag game would not.

>

> Conquest as it stands is a major reason why PvP in this game feels so stagnant and so bad.

 

No. Conquest is perfect because it enables all kinds of build to shine.

 

Want to play a heavy aoe dps ? You can because you'll be usefull in teamfights.

Want to play a support ? You can because you'll be usefull in teamfights.

Want to play a duellist/skirmisher ? You can because you can get duels and small skirmishes on side points and be a pain in the ass.

Want to play a roamer/nuker ? You can because you'll be able to quickly take down important targets in teamfight, decap points or +1 the small skirmishes.

 

Capture the flag/deathmatch would ONLY allow teamfight builds to shine because these modes by essence favors zerging as much as possible.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

Extremes on both ends.

 

The counter to some of these 'overtuned builds' is High Dmg, High Risk and bad for overall gameplay.

[Daharahj.1325]

Maybe not something so extreme, but we definitely need more skill plit in spvp. Pvp devs need to have the liberty to tune skills in a way that doesn't break conquest in half. You simply can't balance pve and pvp simultaneously, you're making your job harder for no reason.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

> @BurrTheKing.8571 said:

> > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > The best way to understand the problems GW2 has is to look at other games that don't have the same problems. This reveals that the root cause is passive defenses that are WAY too strong and active defenses aren't as good.

> >

> > Passive defenses for example like Engies gaining elixer below X% health, Warriors gaining immunities below X% health, Guardians having 10+ different passive ways to automatically gain aegis. In other games, passives that automatically save you from death are severely restricted because they break the flow of the game. But in GW2, since *every* class has these things no one has properly identified them as a problem when they are in fact the biggest flaw in how GW2 combat works. These passives need huge nerfs, not small ones. They should be 5 minute recharges at least. There are way too many of these and it's possible for some classes to spec 5+ at once in their build which is just absolutely ridiculous. What this creates is a very strange feeling of low-risk low-reward. The risk of doing anything is low because there are plenty of get out of jail free cards to save you, and the reward is also low because when you successfully land a good combo chain on another player there is a solid chance they also have a get out of jail free passive up. The result is just unsatisfying and boring gameplay.

> >

> > Then to make up for it, buff active defenses. Lower cooldowns for blocking skills that you actually have to press. Consider a possible endurance regen buff of 25% across the board. The result would be that combos would be harder to land, but would be more rewarding for doing so. There would also be a lot less spam in the game since passive defenses allow people to attack and defend at the same time which is another problem.

> >

>

> We're going to have to heavily nerf damage across the board if we want to remove the get out of jail free cards. Right now they are unfortunately the only thing keeping you from getting 1 shot in many cases. Damage in general just seems crazy high.

 

Learn to dodge? Learn to not stand in the Sand Shade? Learn to not hit Full counter and actually kite the warrior? Learn to not play Berserker amulet and think you're going to survive a fast burst? A lot of the "getting 1 shot" happens to people having really bad positioning or mismanaging their active defense cooldowns, including dodges, which is a L2P issue...