Helbjorne.9368 Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 > @"Model No.3461" said: > > @Einlanzer.1627 said: > > I'm not saying my opinion is "objectively true" > > You what, mate? > > > @Einlanzer.1627 said: > > even when my post makes way more objective sense than one I'm responding to > > Have you been having a giggle with us all, mate? As I stated, he's delusional, but don't make observations like that or he'll report you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menadena.7482 Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 > @Einlanzer.1627 said: > > @Nihevil.8024 said: > > The Guild Wars 2 community is very bandwagon-y. If a post gets several down votes and no up votes, when others look at the thread and see those down votes they'll also down vote it too. Also another way it will be abused if a person disagrees with someone else's opinion they'll not only down vote that comment but any other of their comments in that thread. > > Precisely. I am a perfect example of that in this thread. Downvotes galore, even when my post makes way more objective sense than one I'm responding to and isn't rude. It's the worst form of groupthink and emotional voting. It's just not good for the proliferation and discussion of ideas or for the state of the community. I disagree. Okay, what is better, my making a post that covers up a bigger part of the screen (and the database) to say that I disagree with you or if I were to increase a number somewhere of how many thumbs down you got? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 Thumbs down, while it can and will be abused, is a convenience tool which enables people to comment without commenting. In that sense, it's no different than thumbs up. We live in the age of Twitbook, and such tools in online talk pages are only going to become more prevalent. As long as it cannot be used, as it is on Reddit, to silence someone, I can live with it. I may even use it a time or three, but I expect I will use thumbs up more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaken.6801 Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 I agree with all points mentioned so far. I mean, there was a reason they didn't went that way in the old forums. They stated that they didn't want to create that negativity and open things up in that matter. I don't really understand why they went in the opposite direction with this new itteration. It kinda feels like they just threw some things together from a modern _build your own forum_ set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einlanzer.1627 Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 > @Menadena.7482 said: > > @Einlanzer.1627 said: > > > @Nihevil.8024 said: > > > The Guild Wars 2 community is very bandwagon-y. If a post gets several down votes and no up votes, when others look at the thread and see those down votes they'll also down vote it too. Also another way it will be abused if a person disagrees with someone else's opinion they'll not only down vote that comment but any other of their comments in that thread. > > > > Precisely. I am a perfect example of that in this thread. Downvotes galore, even when my post makes way more objective sense than one I'm responding to and isn't rude. It's the worst form of groupthink and emotional voting. It's just not good for the proliferation and discussion of ideas or for the state of the community. > > I disagree. Okay, what is better, my making a post that covers up a bigger part of the screen (and the database) to say that I disagree with you or if I were to increase a number somewhere of how many thumbs down you got? > > Again, most people in most situations would not do this. If they strongly disagreed with something or disagreed for specific reasons, they would post about it whether or not they can also downvote. If they weakly disagreed or disagreed for no reason, most would not post at all. This is simply because it takes about 1/10th the amount of time to give a downvote as it does to post, so you can infer that downvoting happens with probably around ten times the fequency that thoughtless "no" posts do when downvoting isn't an option. So, arguing that downvotes significantly contribute to keeping the forums clean just doesn't really hold much water as a claim. You'd need to provide substantial evidence of that. Not just write a random post trying to make a point and then arguing that you proved me wrong, which is preposterous. The fact that I'm being called delusional for stating this in this way is further evidence of the toxicity of downvoting as a feature - what happened in this thread is that everyone's perception of me gradually deteriorated to the point that it changed everyone's perception of my posts regardless of the content of those specific posts. Even when I'm clearly making the more rational argument, I'm "delusional". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel.5428 Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 I would add the thumb up or down only on pool-like topics, for example suggestions for new items or for new elite specs. They are useless in a free-dicusion and people just abuse them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 I'm finding the reactions system, and thumbs down especially, oddly fascinating. I keep checking to see which of my posts have been downvoted and trying to work out why. Sometimes it's obvious - it was an unpopular opinion and wasn't worded as tactfully as it could have been. Other times I have no idea. Or I can guess but I have no idea if it's right - like when someone downvoted a post showing off 4 of my characters appearance - I assume they didn't like 1 or more of them but I don't know which or why. So I went with the safe choice - one of them has the Dreamer and I know some people hate that bow. I still don't think it's a bad system, but I definitely think if you want your 'vote' to have any meaning you need to provide additional feedback. Even if you think it's obvious - like if someone posted a very straight forward idea and you don't like it at all - it's still helpful to say why because otherwise they have to guess, and it's pretty safe to assume they've got a different perspective to you and so are not likely to understand your reaction without help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einlanzer.1627 Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 > @Danikat.8537 said: > I'm finding the reactions system, and thumbs down especially, oddly fascinating. I keep checking to see which of my posts have been downvoted and trying to work out why. > > Sometimes it's obvious - it was an unpopular opinion and wasn't worded as tactfully as it could have been. Other times I have no idea. Or I can guess but I have no idea if it's right - like when someone downvoted a post showing off 4 of my characters appearance - I assume they didn't like 1 or more of them but I don't know which or why. So I went with the safe choice - one of them has the Dreamer and I know some people hate that bow. > > I still don't think it's a bad system, but I definitely think if you want your 'vote' to have any meaning you need to provide additional feedback. Even if you think it's obvious - like if someone posted a very straight forward idea and you don't like it at all - it's still helpful to say why because otherwise they have to guess, and it's pretty safe to assume they've got a different perspective to you and so are not likely to understand your reaction without help. Yeah, I used to do this on reddit a lot. It often seems very arbitrary, and that's precisely because it often is arbitrary. It has way, way more to do with interpretations of who you are and how you rank in the community than it does with the quality of a specific post. Often, low quality posts are actually more likely to be ignored than they are to be ultra-downvoted, So, in most cases, there's something specific that generates the downvoting. Often, it's just an immensely unpopular idea, but what's more interesting is the reason why it's unpopular. Often it's not objectively bad, and has way more to do with community perceptions. For example, suggesting anything that deviates too much from a status quo is usually going to get a bad response even if it's a good idea, and this only changes when the status quo reaches a certain threshold of terribleness where there's a sudden widespread recognition that systemic change is needed. Certain types of people are more likely to be downvoted than others, and it isn't always about quality of posts. A lot of it revolves around thinking outside the box too much. This is actually what I consider to the be the worst part of downvoting systems. It acts as soft coercion for people to stay inside the box. I don't see the benefit of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killyox.3950 Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 To me personally: Thumbs up = quick agree Thumbs down = quick disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brimstone.3807 Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 > @Evga.2471 said: > The Thumbs Down option reminds me of another forum. Can't mention said game and forum. But anyway if you had a negative rating everyone disliked what you said no matter what. If we are thinking of the same forum, they just removed this feature a few weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einlanzer.1627 Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 > @Brimstone.3807 said: > > @Evga.2471 said: > > The Thumbs Down option reminds me of another forum. Can't mention said game and forum. But anyway if you had a negative rating everyone disliked what you said no matter what. > > If we are thinking of the same forum, they just removed this feature a few weeks ago. You don't say! I never would have guessed this is what would happen! *sarcasm* I honestly think it won't stick around here forever. It just isn't worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashburntoo.7431 Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 > @crashburntoo.7431 said: > > @crashburntoo.7431 said: > > I'm sorry @"Einlanzer.1627"; it does look like you're being down-vote targeted, and recently. Your count has gone up by several votes in a short period of time, including on some older posts. This has been one of the reasons against the Thumbs Down vote in this thread all along, so it's now being illustrated. As a personal philosophy, I try to avoid the Thumbs Down vote and prefer to provide a response. If I do feel like a Thumbs Down vote is warranted, I would only vote someone (or some idea) down once, even if it's defended several times further down in the thread. > > Woot, my first Thumbs Down! Thanks! I'm sorry, I can't help myself... just got down-voted on this one, so I have to ask: do you disagree that the original post was my first Thumbs Down, or with my being thankful for it? Or was it a cascade from the extra down-vote that I received on the original post as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Aschi Popp.7496 Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 For the record. Did everyone downvote me because I don't like rolling stones or hat I think the playerbase opinion should not influence game direction? Because of "you people " we have gem outfits instead of townclothes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menadena.7482 Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 Getting rid of thumbs down only makes sense if you get rid of thumbs up at the same time. Compare it to real life. Would you only want to be able to able to agree with politicians, never disagreeing with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einlanzer.1627 Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 > @Menadena.7482 said: > Getting rid of thumbs down only makes sense if you get rid of thumbs up at the same time. Compare it to real life. Would you only want to be able to able to agree with politicians, never disagreeing with them? Bad analogy. You don't cast negative votes in an election, only positive ones. You can still disagree, but you do so indirectly through voting for others and vocal dissent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helbjorne.9368 Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 To those that are claiming they're being abused, how so? They're there for you to use them, and there's no official guidelines on how they are to be used. If you like something, give it a 'Thumbs Up,' and if you dislike something, give it a 'Thumbs Down'; it seems pretty straightforward. It's not as if they bear any weight in regards to your post, as posts aren't hidden for receiving 'Thumbs Down' like with Reddit's downvoting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einlanzer.1627 Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 > @Helbjorne.9368 said: > To those that are claiming they're being abused, how so? They're there for you to use them, and there's no official guidelines on how they are to be used. If you like something, give it a 'Thumbs Up,' and if you dislike something, give it a 'Thumbs Down'; it seems pretty straightforward. > > It's not as if they bear any weight in regards to your post, as posts aren't hidden for receiving 'Thumbs Down' like with Reddit's downvoting. See above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyraven.4258 Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 I personally hope anet decides to remove both. We have a very special community, that I believe is probably one of if not the most inclusive communities available, it's not about how "tough" you are; it's about being able to post within the forum guidelines without being piled on or having someones guild upvote their friends to drown out other voices. I think the devs and long time fans have worked hard to be inclusive and I just see a voting system as being diametric to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArenaNet Staff Gaile Gray.6029 Posted September 14, 2017 ArenaNet Staff Share Posted September 14, 2017 This thread has become very negative, and it will require clean-up by the moderators. Please do not report any posts now -- the whole thread will be given a review, as time allows. I've started an internal conversation with the team about the "Thumbs Up / Thumbs Down" feature. I have proposed a change and am gathering feedback on it from several individuals. My feeling is that we will be instituting a change in the near future, just as we made changes as a result of other member feedback related to reaction avatars and edit times. Your input has been very helpful and I appreciate the well-thought comments and the politely-expressed feedback. I think we have a consensus and therefore I will be locking the thread to allow the moderators to clean it up. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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