Why would anyone choose "Dune Cloak" over "Infinite Horizon" as a Condition Mirage?

[Sodeni.6041]

I wonder what the purpose of the Dune Cloak grandmaster trait for Mirage is and how it can be more useful than Infinite Horizon.

 

Dune Cloak is a trait that increases condition damage but there is another grandmaster competing with it which is Infinite Horizon. Both of these traits basically do the same - increasing condition damage but Infinite Horizon is just way better because it can put out much more condition damage than Dune Cloak and makes clones not die as fast.

 

So why would anyone use Dune Cloak on Mirage? Do you think it should be reworked to something different in order to make these two traits more distinct because it's weird that both of them affect condition damage right now.

[mortrialus.3062]

Because they misclicked and didn't notice.

[Pyroatheist.9031]

So back at launch of PoF, Phantasm stacking was still the way you played Mesmer. While infinite horizon still worked, it was more of a curiosity for PvP and nothing else. You'd stack phantasms, take dune cloak for the extra damage and duration, and leave it at that.

 

Then Anet reworked phantasms, making infinite horizon not only powerful, but essential. They never remembered to go back and fix dune cloak after that.

[Curunen.8729]

I don't get it either.

 

Dune Cloak is also fairly boring trait - dodge and deal aoe damage... (ok you could also argue EM is a fairly bland trait too in that respect.)

 

Yeah IH is visually appealing, thematically consistent and functionally useful in a variety of builds. I stand by the opinion it should have been the baseline backbone of Mirage with everything balanced around it.

[Sodeni.6041]

> @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> So back at launch of PoF, Phantasm stacking was still the way you played Mesmer. While infinite horizon still worked, it was more of a curiosity for PvP and nothing else. You'd stack phantasms, take dune cloak for the extra damage and duration, and leave it at that.

>

> Then Anet reworked phantasms, making infinite horizon not only powerful, but essential. They never remembered to go back and fix dune cloak after that.

 

Oh true I forgot! Back in the day phantasms would count as clones so they weren‘t able to use ambush attacks and Infinite Horizon would have been not as good but things have changed as you mentioned.

 

So they definitely have to rework dune cloak then!

[Sodeni.6041]

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> I don't get it either.

>

> Dune Cloak is also fairly boring trait - dodge and deal aoe damage... (ok you could also argue EM is a fairly bland trait too in that respect.)

>

> Yeah IH is visually appealing, thematically consistent and functionally useful in a variety of builds. I stand by the opinion it should have been the baseline backbone of Mirage with everything balanced around it.

 

 

I agree with you, I always thought IH should be baseline because of the Mirage‘s concept of deception and all that or at least make Illusionary Ambush an F5 skill but whatever I guess.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

I don't remember dune cloak being ever used in pvp, at least on Europe.

When PoF was released EM was the trait to go, IH was used too on a lesser scale though it was a better trait if you wanted extra damage and good combo potential on power.

[Sodeni.6041]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> I don't remember dune cloak being ever used in pvp, at least on Europe.

> When PoF was released EM was the trait to go, IH was used too on a lesser scale though it was a better trait if you wanted extra damage and good combo potential on power.

 

Yeah that's true but even in PvE Dune Cloak was never the better option if you wanted to go for max condition damage. I hope they rework this trait.

[Imperadordf.2687]

> @"Sodeni.6041" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > I don't remember dune cloak being ever used in pvp, at least on Europe.

> > When PoF was released EM was the trait to go, IH was used too on a lesser scale though it was a better trait if you wanted extra damage and good combo potential on power.

>

> Yeah that's true but even in PvE Dune Cloak was never the better option if you wanted to go for max condition damage. I hope they rework this trait.

 

It was the better option in PvE, for a period of time. I too hope that they rework this disgrace of a "Grandmaster" trait.

[Sodeni.6041]

> @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> > @"Sodeni.6041" said:

> > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > I don't remember dune cloak being ever used in pvp, at least on Europe.

> > > When PoF was released EM was the trait to go, IH was used too on a lesser scale though it was a better trait if you wanted extra damage and good combo potential on power.

> >

> > Yeah that's true but even in PvE Dune Cloak was never the better option if you wanted to go for max condition damage. I hope they rework this trait.

>

> It was the better option in PvE, for a period of time. I too hope that they rework this disgrace of a "Grandmaster" trait.

 

Oh I don't remember it being better but you might be correct actually! I hope dune cloak would be reworked into something that helps power mirages maybe although Infinite Horizon also helps power mirages. IH is a really weird trait because why would you ever not take it?

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Sodeni.6041" said:

> > @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> > > @"Sodeni.6041" said:

> > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > I don't remember dune cloak being ever used in pvp, at least on Europe.

> > > > When PoF was released EM was the trait to go, IH was used too on a lesser scale though it was a better trait if you wanted extra damage and good combo potential on power.

> > >

> > > Yeah that's true but even in PvE Dune Cloak was never the better option if you wanted to go for max condition damage. I hope they rework this trait.

> >

> > It was the better option in PvE, for a period of time. I too hope that they rework this disgrace of a "Grandmaster" trait.

>

> Oh I don't remember it being better but you might be correct actually! I hope dune cloak would be reworked into something that helps power mirages maybe although Infinite Horizon also helps power mirages. IH is a really weird trait because why would you ever not take it?

 

Back in Yee Olde Days of 2017 Phantasms were permanent, didn't turn into clones after one attack. They'd ramp up more and more damage over time so you never wanted to shatter on long boss encounters. Also back on released none of the ambush attacks were tuned in a way that made it more valuable to maintain three clones and ambush over having three pistol Phantasms rolling damage on an enemy over the course of an entire fight. In this environment Dune Cloak was the superior grandmaster.

[Sodeni.6041]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Sodeni.6041" said:

> > > @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> > > > @"Sodeni.6041" said:

> > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > I don't remember dune cloak being ever used in pvp, at least on Europe.

> > > > > When PoF was released EM was the trait to go, IH was used too on a lesser scale though it was a better trait if you wanted extra damage and good combo potential on power.

> > > >

> > > > Yeah that's true but even in PvE Dune Cloak was never the better option if you wanted to go for max condition damage. I hope they rework this trait.

> > >

> > > It was the better option in PvE, for a period of time. I too hope that they rework this disgrace of a "Grandmaster" trait.

> >

> > Oh I don't remember it being better but you might be correct actually! I hope dune cloak would be reworked into something that helps power mirages maybe although Infinite Horizon also helps power mirages. IH is a really weird trait because why would you ever not take it?

>

> Back in Yee Olde Days of 2017 Phantasms were permanent, didn't turn into clones after one attack. They'd ramp up more and more damage over time so you never wanted to shatter on long boss encounters. Also back on released none of the ambush attacks were tuned in a way that made it more valuable to maintain three clones and ambush over having three pistol Phantasms rolling damage on an enemy over the course of an entire fight. In this environment Dune Cloak was the superior grandmaster.

 

Exactly. Even though I played since release I totally forgot about old phantasms. I wish the devs changed Dune Cloak to something different that increases our build variety!

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

This may be all a misunderstanding on my part, I read dune cloak and pvp on pyro's post and assumed he was referring to the use of the trait on pvp, hence why I said that the trait was never used on pvp. So I apology from all the mistalk (is this even a word, if it isn't, well, it is now) that happened from my post on.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Sodeni.6041" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Sodeni.6041" said:

> > > > @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> > > > > @"Sodeni.6041" said:

> > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > > I don't remember dune cloak being ever used in pvp, at least on Europe.

> > > > > > When PoF was released EM was the trait to go, IH was used too on a lesser scale though it was a better trait if you wanted extra damage and good combo potential on power.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yeah that's true but even in PvE Dune Cloak was never the better option if you wanted to go for max condition damage. I hope they rework this trait.

> > > >

> > > > It was the better option in PvE, for a period of time. I too hope that they rework this disgrace of a "Grandmaster" trait.

> > >

> > > Oh I don't remember it being better but you might be correct actually! I hope dune cloak would be reworked into something that helps power mirages maybe although Infinite Horizon also helps power mirages. IH is a really weird trait because why would you ever not take it?

> >

> > Back in Yee Olde Days of 2017 Phantasms were permanent, didn't turn into clones after one attack. They'd ramp up more and more damage over time so you never wanted to shatter on long boss encounters. Also back on released none of the ambush attacks were tuned in a way that made it more valuable to maintain three clones and ambush over having three pistol Phantasms rolling damage on an enemy over the course of an entire fight. In this environment Dune Cloak was the superior grandmaster.

>

> Exactly. Even though I played since release I totally forgot about old phantasms. I wish the devs changed Dune Cloak to something different that increases our build variety!

 

Yeah. I wish dune cloak was something more interesting and useful. But if Mirage gets a single buff between and now and when it gets nerfed to no longer be meta the PvP community is going shoot boiling blood out of their eyeballs.