Elementalist (yet) again being top DPS...

[Henry.5713]

Good to see that nothing has changed.

We get big numbers once again. Numbers pulled in a sterile testing environment by those who are really good at what they are doing and of course people get the wrong idea again. They never bothered to understand the point about DPS loss during an actual raid encounter before, why would that have changed now. Something that hits certain builds much harder than others and sometimes turns the most impressive benchmarks into something quite mediocre in the actual raids. Not to mention the lack of support and boons compared to other top DPS classes and the fact that the majority of players will never even get close to reaching these numbers.

[Joxer.6024]

Let Weaver has its glory! Renegade has a chance now and is viable for more than just one boss, so joy joy joy! Could stand with a few tweaks but eh, I'll take it for now. But yea, to the OP and all, let those that do great dps keep doing it, its doesn't come easy really so why not?

AND ALL THIS IS JUST GREAT:

"buff all power specs except for thief, ele and guard

buff condi mesmer a bit

add more aclarity options to rev

add quickness options to one of the power specs of any class but thief or guard

make heal/support for guard, rev and ele viable"

Well said Torgal! ;)

[savacli.8172]

Personally, I wouldn't take Weaver for anything other than like KC, Cairn, Overseer, Sab...you know, the ones that basically stay in place and don't have a lot of bells and whistles to distract you. Otherwise, I can bring something like a condi soulbeast so I can play with one hand and each a taco with the other while raiding (I'm exaggeration, I know).

 

Ultimately, from what I've seen, PoF specs are doing top damage, but not by a whole whole lot They're just pulling ahead by a few k worth of damage. Which is understandable as "proper" rotations haven't been published, and a lot of specs aren't being played in encounters where their damage potential can't be reached.

[Yasi.9065]

> @Amineo.8951 said:

> Hey, why don't you buff the other professions to be on par with Weaver in term of DPS? Each has 2 Elite specs now so it's not gonna change anything balance wise, it'll make the game more fun and have more variety in fractals and raids. The same goes for Druid and Chrono being top tier support, specs like Scourge, Firebrand (it's supposed to be a support spec btw yet it's DPS atm, mm'kay) and Herald/Renegade needs much more love in that aspect...

>

> I'm just saying this because of the obligatory "2 Chrono, 2 Druids, 2 PS and 4 Weaver" meta coming soon...

 

Id rather have Anet fix Elementalist RNG party. Make Meteor, Air Overload, DMG Glyphe, Icebow 4 into pulsing AoE with constant dmg. Nice constant dmg, worthy of an elementalist.

And the free'd up server ressources can then be put into making buffs 10man in raids, solving the rest of your problems too.

 

But alas. Anet so proud of Meteor, never gonna change it. Instead they invent even more ridiculous things like the MeteorImmunityShield, to try to balance RNG outliers.

[Feanor.2358]

> @SkullProX.7083 said:

> When tempest was finally nerfed to a balanced state after being top/best pick for 2 YEARS ON 90% OF BOSSES.... WE GET WEAVER....*ptsd*

> And firebrand got nerfed, while getting the same dps as weaver.. seemsgood

 

Firebrand also got infinitely more utility, seeing as Weaver had, and still has, zero. Want another class to be top dps? Sure. Just make it jut as survivable, just as easy to play, and with just as much utility. Deal?

[vicious.5683]

It's time to balance raids for good.

Well deserved nerfs for eles, guardians, and other top DPS classes, are long overdue.

If Anet is incapable of buffing some classes like necromancers or revenants to be on par with other clases in Raids, I don't see other option.

Nearly 50k DPS is a joke. Anet get your shit together!!!

[savacli.8172]

> @vicious.5683 said:

> It's time to balance raids for good.

> Well deserved nerfs for eles, guardians, and other top DPS classes, are long overdue.

> If Anet is incapable of buffing some classes like necromancers or revenants to be on par with other clases in Raids, I don't see other option.

> Nearly 50k DPS is a joke. Anet get your kitten together!!!

 

They did. Have you even tried to pull off that level of damage on all bosses? Spoiler, you all but have to have the stars align to pull that off. But if you think the damage is so easy I'll go grab a lemonade and wait for your video where you can pull that off on all encounters.

 

Edit: With how tight the timing is on your skill casts and rotation you can very easily get off tempo if you drop on Quickness/Alacrity uptime. So, you can be playing your A+ game, but a mediocro Chrono in your sub will throw you off. And Dwayna forbid if the boss has a small hit box or decides to move. Oddly enough, even in what would seem like an ideal fight, a Weaver can't meet its DPS potential in the KC encounter since you can't apply Weakness to KC. Granted, it can definitely dish out a good amount of damage during the burn phase.

[Amineo.8951]

Qt released a new benchmark, looks like all classes have a way to deal decent DPS, still I don't think it will change the general mentality of pugs who'll think Weaver is better than everything else. And, it doesn't fix the issue about Druid and Chrono still being the best support specs, I guess we will have to wait for a new balance update or even another expansion with new elite specs, right now I think only Firebrand and Tempest (needs a buff) could compete with these two in Fractals.

[vicious.5683]

> @savacli.8172 said:

> > @vicious.5683 said:

> > It's time to balance raids for good.

> > Well deserved nerfs for eles, guardians, and other top DPS classes, are long overdue.

> > If Anet is incapable of buffing some classes like necromancers or revenants to be on par with other clases in Raids, I don't see other option.

> > Nearly 50k DPS is a joke. Anet get your kitten together!!!

>

> They did. Have you even tried to pull off that level of damage on all bosses? Spoiler, you all but have to have the stars align to pull that off. But if you think the damage is so easy I'll go grab a lemonade and wait for your video where you can pull that off on all encounters.

>

> Edit: With how tight the timing is on your skill casts and rotation you can very easily get off tempo if you drop on Quickness/Alacrity uptime. So, you can be playing your A+ game, but a mediocro Chrono in your sub will throw you off. And Dwayna forbid if the boss has a small hit box or decides to move. Oddly enough, even in what would seem like an ideal fight, a Weaver can't meet its DPS potential in the KC encounter since you can't apply Weakness to KC. Granted, it can definitely dish out a good amount of damage during the burn phase.

 

Wait! don't go for that lemonade, not before you try to find a decent squad which carry you as a Power Reaper.

[Raguel.9402]

Considering you will almost never be able to pull that rotation off in actual gameplay, not to mention not capping vuln, having no boons, etc, it's fine as it is. Power Weaver works on what, KC's burn phase?

[Raguel.9402]

Ups, double posted, pls delete

[Bakeneko.5826]

> @zoomborg.9462 said:

> Its always fun when people that cant reach 25k on golem complain about weaver. Weaver is squishier than tempest (no gale song), requires big, stationary targets to pull strong dps and it's much harder to play on a high level than tempest. It is almost condi engi difficulty. Add to that, u require really nice alacrity and quickness uptime to pull it off and u rely a lot on distorts from your mesmer.

>

> Weaver is high skill, high risk, high reward which most people cant even handle in their dreams. So y, its not OP unless u are already playing at a level where u can pull high numbers on any class. I mean, this is why we cant have good things, people with literally no clue voice nonsense opinions with zero insight just because they saw a qt benchmark. But but but "freedom of speech".

 

Weaver is what ele is at it's core - glass cannon that shoots nukes that make US jealous. On top of that, weavers DPS depends a lot on how good your mesmers are - if they can keep up ala+quickness, 24/7, you are god. If not, your dps plumits to the depths of hell and never is seen again. So it is pure team-play class, where you MUST communicate with mesmer and your party needs to be good, which, honestly, makes me happy, we are rewarded for running stuff together with static squad be it raids, fractals, or other stuff, just because we play same classes for over 3 years and know them really well.

What makes me sad is, a lot of PUGs will see qT benchamark, go to golem, pull 40k DPS, pretends to be god Ele player and start dying on everything, because they cant adapt rotation, since qT builds doesn't teach that. So, it makes weaver "high risk, high reward, please don't be a week old weaver player, who slaves to meta" class

[Feanor.2358]

> @vicious.5683 said:

> It's time to balance raids for good.

> Well deserved nerfs for eles, guardians, and other top DPS classes, are long overdue.

> If Anet is incapable of buffing some classes like necromancers or revenants to be on par with other clases in Raids, I don't see other option.

> Nearly 50k DPS is a joke. Anet get your kitten together!!!

 

It's time to actually try playing these specs before throwing out "expert" advice based on what you saw someone pull off on the golem... through YouTube.

 

All the dps specs are pretty tightly placed around the 37k mark. The weaver is the only outlier, however that's assuming perfect conditions which never happen. Currently a Scourge can outdps a Weaver in most scenarios, bring more group utility and be a lot more survivable. "Well deserved nerfs"? How about you back this up with your actual performance? Show us how OP Weaver is.

[Zoltreez.6435]

Raids ?! pfffffffffffff....

im happy if im allowed in high level fractals on my Necro............

[Feanor.2358]

> @Zoltreez.6435 said:

> Raids ?! pfffffffffffff....

> im happy if im allowed in high level fractals on my Necro............

 

Give it some time. Condi Scourge is very powerful, and qT just released benchmarks proving it. It doesn't rely on field combos like the Reaper, it just does a ton of dps while giving off some barrier and Might.

[Samnang.1879]

the rotations are complex tho, and i doubt most ppl can do near anywhere the benchmark in realistic scenarios

[okalevi.2917]

Weaver requires a lot more practice to reach that level of dps. I tried playing weaver on KC and ended up switching back to tempest because I wasn't nearly as comfortable doing the rotation as I was with tempest -- on which I can fight KC in my sleep from all the time I've practiced it. I went from being 4th place dps as a weaver to 1st place dps as a tempest. Just because a class can outperform another in perfect conditions doesn't mean that other classes are underpowered. Knowing what you're doing on a class is more important than what a class can theoretically do.

 

This type of belief was an issue in the past. Before dps meters existed, everyone thought that nobody should ever play anything but tempest. After dps meters were developed, it became clear that most people aren't able to perform as well on it versus other classes.

 

Also please note that killing raid bosses only requires about half of the theoretical maximums, as evidenced by various low-man kills we've seen people do. Any other dps class can reach acceptable levels that can kill bosses. The game shouldn't be balanced around the top-tier players, it should be balanced such that every class has a good option, and right now most classes have a variety of good options for playing each role. There are other classes which seem to be much less in a healthy state right now, and we should focus on those in my eyes.

 

Weaver seems to be in an OK state right now, but as the meta shifts and people start becoming more comfortable on various classes this might change.

[OJM.5103]

Never understood the problem with ele being highest dps. The situation in which ele can deal big damage has to be pretty much flawless, and are few and far between for the majority. People look at those benchmarks and assume ele can execute those numbers in an encounter outside of the golem vacuum. I cri

[vicious.5683]

> @Feanor.2358 said:

> > @vicious.5683 said:

> > It's time to balance raids for good.

> > Well deserved nerfs for eles, guardians, and other top DPS classes, are long overdue.

> > If Anet is incapable of buffing some classes like necromancers or revenants to be on par with other clases in Raids, I don't see other option.

> > Nearly 50k DPS is a joke. Anet get your kitten together!!!

>

> It's time to actually try playing these specs before throwing out "expert" advice based on what you saw someone pull off on the golem... through YouTube.

>

> All the dps specs are pretty tightly placed around the 37k mark. The weaver is the only outlier, however that's assuming perfect conditions which never happen. Currently a Scourge can outdps a Weaver in most scenarios, bring more group utility and be a lot more survivable. "Well deserved nerfs"? How about you back this up with your actual performance? Show us how OP Weaver is.

 

"In most scenarios" what? Do you really think Scourge will always achieve perfect rotations but eles will always be in the worst case scenario? Why?

 

Beside, I'm talking about necromancers, power reapers and other forsaken classes, not Scourge. But I guess those classes are long-forgotten by most players.

[savacli.8172]

> @Raguel.9402 said:

> Considering you will almost never be able to pull that rotation off in actual gameplay, not to mention not capping vuln, having no boons, etc, it's fine as it is. Power Weaver works on what, KC's burn phase?

 

That's probably the best case scenario, but you lose out on +15% crit chance since you can't weakness KC. So gotta drop a utility for Fire Signet again, and you also take Accuracy sigil to make up the difference. So even then a player can't pull off max DPS potential though I'm sure Weaver will still out damage everyone there anyways due to Tempest Defense.

[Feanor.2358]

> @okalevi.2917 said:

> Weaver requires a lot more practice to reach that level of dps. I tried playing weaver on KC and ended up switching back to tempest because I wasn't nearly as comfortable doing the rotation as I was with tempest -- on which I can fight KC in my sleep from all the time I've practiced it. I went from being 4th place dps as a weaver to 1st place dps as a tempest. Just because a class can outperform another in perfect conditions doesn't mean that other classes are underpowered. Knowing what you're doing on a class is more important than what a class can theoretically do.

>

> This type of belief was an issue in the past. Before dps meters existed, everyone thought that nobody should ever play anything but tempest. After dps meters were developed, it became clear that most people aren't able to perform as well on it versus other classes.

>

> Also please note that killing raid bosses only requires about half of the theoretical maximums, as evidenced by various low-man kills we've seen people do. Any other dps class can reach acceptable levels that can kill bosses. The game shouldn't be balanced around the top-tier players, it should be balanced such that every class has a good option, and right now most classes have a variety of good options for playing each role. There are other classes which seem to be much less in a healthy state right now, and we should focus on those in my eyes.

>

> Weaver seems to be in an OK state right now, but as the meta shifts and people start becoming more comfortable on various classes this might change.

 

Indeed. And I suspect, not in favor of Weaver. > @vicious.5683 said:

> > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > @vicious.5683 said:

> > > It's time to balance raids for good.

> > > Well deserved nerfs for eles, guardians, and other top DPS classes, are long overdue.

> > > If Anet is incapable of buffing some classes like necromancers or revenants to be on par with other clases in Raids, I don't see other option.

> > > Nearly 50k DPS is a joke. Anet get your kitten together!!!

> >

> > It's time to actually try playing these specs before throwing out "expert" advice based on what you saw someone pull off on the golem... through YouTube.

> >

> > All the dps specs are pretty tightly placed around the 37k mark. The weaver is the only outlier, however that's assuming perfect conditions which never happen. Currently a Scourge can outdps a Weaver in most scenarios, bring more group utility and be a lot more survivable. "Well deserved nerfs"? How about you back this up with your actual performance? Show us how OP Weaver is.

>

> "In most scenarios" what? Do you really think Scourge will always achieve perfect rotations but eles will always be in the worst case scenario? Why?

>

> Beside, I'm talking about necromancers, power reapers and other forsaken classes, not Scourge. But I guess those classes are long-forgotten by most players.

 

I don't have to guess. I'm looking at arc readings when I play with my group. On bosses like Cairn, MO, Sabetha I can't hope to get top dps.

[Bakeneko.5826]

> @savacli.8172 said:

> > @Raguel.9402 said:

> > Considering you will almost never be able to pull that rotation off in actual gameplay, not to mention not capping vuln, having no boons, etc, it's fine as it is. Power Weaver works on what, KC's burn phase?

>

> That's probably the best case scenario, but you lose out on +15% crit chance since you can't weakness KC. So gotta drop a utility for Fire Signet again, and you also take Accuracy sigil to make up the difference. So even then a player can't pull off max DPS potential though I'm sure Weaver will still out damage everyone there anyways due to Tempest Defense.

 

Maybe it is time to entertain idea of disabler build for one of vlasses which gives weakness and vulnerability?

[Rising Dusk.2408]

> @Samnang.1879 said:

> the rotations are complex tho, and i doubt most ppl can do near anywhere the benchmark in realistic scenarios

After significant practice I can't get very close even in a vacuum versus the golem, and I used to be able to hit ~95% of the Sc/Wh benchmark before that was nerfed. This Weaver build is _very_ intense to play and requires serious skills; it should make a lot of players who wanted Elementalist to be difficult in the past very happy!