Jack Redline.5379 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > lol, to stop the bus I have to throw something under it. *throws himself under the bus* xD AHHH and then i woke up back to this real world :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenAce.3067 Posted February 15, 2019 Author Share Posted February 15, 2019 > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > @"SevenAce.3067" said: > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > @"SevenAce.3067" said: > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > > @"SevenAce.3067" said: > > > > > > > @"Jack Redline.5379" said: > > > > > > > > @"SevenAce.3067" said: > > > > > > > DS isnt that powerful nor unstopable that it could decide the game 10 out of 10 times. DS is at best casted when you need to finish up those few downed/near death opponents or when you are almost dead and you need to save ur life from death. As far as i can see what you write here you are Bronze at best so please dont cry and simply git gud. You as a thief have enogh life to withstant DS with 2 dodges. Which i beleive is standard amount of dodges for all classes not to mention all the other skills that block evade etc. There is kitten ton of other BS in this game that needs to be dealt with and DS is certainly not one of them. Good day > > > > > > > > > > > > Dude, I'm not complaining about it's dmg nor evade aspect but it's ridiculousness of preventing capture point due to it's evade uptime as *the fastest rotational class* in close match circumstances. 4¼s (none-interactive play in most cases) to stall the point from ticking that can be followed up with more evades due to thiefs general high evade kit, is instant can be used along with agility and shadowstep, can be reset by improvisation with rng from steal afterwards is over the top busted. Make it invul, I couldn't care less, it's basically that, when momentum is at peak in meta nowdays and those 10-15s could end up match deciding factor which I've seen happen. DS is the main root of the problem. Anything that goes beyond 2s evade frame and is accessed by a class with additional layers of evades is not cool, more so when this class is first to port on point. While DS may require additional respond in a 1v1 on node and if a core guard or mes uses renew / distort which fully ends in thiefs favor of the node. > > > > > > > > > > Here's an honest question: If the Thief is as great as you are making them to be, why aren't we seeing more of them in a team? Why do you even need other professions if you can rotate and cap then keep the node as a Thief easily? > > > > > > > > > > My point is, you're having a tunnel vision towards the Thief rather than looking at the team composition that allowed the Thief to do his job effectively and efficiently. > > > > > > > > > > Nerfing the Thief will not change the fact that your team comp might be trash. > > > > > > > > > > EDIT: typos > > > > > > > > You're missing out the point near completly. As I was refering multiple times picture a scenario where there are even circumstances where match is about to end. one team has 2 nodes (say x&y) another 1. There is none on x node, their thief was on y, barely reaches x in time and holds it through uninteractable evades. Or another scenario more common, such as spawn nodes like skyhammer or cannon, you've wiped x/4 they're on spawn in 5s thief able to stall that point inb4 they regroup. DS is near as invuln as you tend to use that before you get condi pressured. only few circumstances where you can punish that is through shocking aura which is quite limited to none and line of warding (support FB) which is difficult to land. Retal is even less negligible in 1v1. > > > > > > > > > > If there is none on node X, then where are the Thieves? Why only one Thief from node Y who rushed to that node X to cap it? If Thief is great at rotation, then the other team must have a Thief that could have prevented the decap. Instead, you paint a rather far-fetched scenario where the other team is lacking this great and powerful Thief in their roster. Then complain about the Thief who did his job, rather than complaining about the trash team comp of the losing team for not having the godly Thief in the first place. Do you see my point? > > > > > > In PvP, good team comp with good communication always wins over trash team comp with zero team communication. It doesn't really matter what profession you pick. > > > > > > > You do see nearly 1 thief in ladder ranked and ofc in high lvl play atleast 1 and they can all abuse that last second ditch if they know how to rotate somewhat well, doesn't require high mechanical understanding. Meta has been high momentum rotational basis so ofc thief sees play. And finally why should thief have the luxury to stall a point when it's the fastest thing moving compared to other rotational +1 specs like rev holo, guard, mirage (to some extent) which either can be cc'd off the point or burn invulns which costs them that node anyway. > > > > > > Again, this proves that you're having tunnel visions towards the Thief without looking at the big picture on what lead to that very specific scenario and circumstances. > > > > > > If what your claim is true, then there should be more Thieves in the ranking ladder, but why only 1? Either Thief is great and godly or they are not. If the Thieves are great and godly, we would see more Thief in the top ranks. It wouldn't make sense not to pick a great and godly profession with almost unlimited access to evades -- according to you. However, we see only 1 Thief which proves that this profession is not great and godly at all. > > > > > > Sorry but the facts are proving your argument wrong. > > > > You're looking balantly ignorant backing those statement mate, those aren't facts those are claimed by your view which seems more like delusional sentimentality. Neither I say they have unlimited access to evades but enough to avoid dmg for say ~ 10s which is majority backed by DS. Why shouldn't DS hinder capture point? > > Hey, you've been exaggerating all these time, why cant I? > > You claim that the Thief is so good at rotation and keeping a node, yet we only see 1 Thief in ranking and not all team take a Thief. If anyone is delusional, it's you. > > Daggerstorm is not nearly as broken as Renewed Focus. What you want will never happen. You didn't aswer my comment: Why shouldn't DS hinder capture point? Looks like you're straying further away. No consrtuctive critisism. I'm convinced you're acting on your pride and all. Like give me a good reason to why DS shouldn't give capture point contribution outside of current game mechanics. They probably can change that as an exception. Either way you can stay cocky and lose this discussion. Also you seem to have missed the meaning behind preventative, again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Redline.5379 Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 > @"SevenAce.3067" said: I am gonna say it really slow for ya. FROOOOOOGS!!! Now. To the point of why should the DS stay as it is and grant point capture as it does now. 1st. The evade is defensive utility all classes have it and if we want to prevent DS from granting cap points cuz of its evade frame we'd have to do so for all classes so it is balanced 2nd. DS is a defensive utility that is supposed to make you survive through all that stuff other classes such as Mirage, DH, SB, Holo etc. can drop on you. It is supposed to let you survive those deadly fields of Scourge ON POINT it is supposed to let you survive blasts of thousands of mirages clones ON POINT. IT IS MEANT TO DO THAT!! And that is why if you take the benefit of granting points ppl would still pick it because it is their defense against all that dmg they would have taken if they'd wander on the point (such as Skyhammer, Bell etc) with ANY other class on it. You would not stop ppl from equiping DS even if it wouldnt grant cap points. They equip it MAINLY to survive and deal dmg in the process. 3rd. As mentioned above It is not used only on points. It is also used for ganks anywhere on the map. So if it would still deal dmg and allow you to survive even tho it wouldnt grant cap. Thieves AS THE MOST MOBILE CLASS would simply gank ppl on the map before they would reach the point. They would distract them outside the point maybe kill them at spawn and then QUICKLY got on the point not casting DS to simply cap it. By this you will increase the number of (Cancer) Deadeyes by 100% because if Thief wont be able to fight propperly on Point as MELEE CLASS they will simply take rifle and spam the crap out of anyone on point using DS only as a distraction if they are attacked at their TENT. And if Anet would do that thousands of Thieves would simply say : Good bye it was fun here, it is not anymore i go play other MMO. (me included) If you have any more questions ask and i shall answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vincent III.1286 Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 > @"SevenAce.3067" said: > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > @"SevenAce.3067" said: > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > @"SevenAce.3067" said: > > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > > > @"SevenAce.3067" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jack Redline.5379" said: > > > > > > > > > @"SevenAce.3067" said: > > > > > > > > DS isnt that powerful nor unstopable that it could decide the game 10 out of 10 times. DS is at best casted when you need to finish up those few downed/near death opponents or when you are almost dead and you need to save ur life from death. As far as i can see what you write here you are Bronze at best so please dont cry and simply git gud. You as a thief have enogh life to withstant DS with 2 dodges. Which i beleive is standard amount of dodges for all classes not to mention all the other skills that block evade etc. There is kitten ton of other BS in this game that needs to be dealt with and DS is certainly not one of them. Good day > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dude, I'm not complaining about it's dmg nor evade aspect but it's ridiculousness of preventing capture point due to it's evade uptime as *the fastest rotational class* in close match circumstances. 4¼s (none-interactive play in most cases) to stall the point from ticking that can be followed up with more evades due to thiefs general high evade kit, is instant can be used along with agility and shadowstep, can be reset by improvisation with rng from steal afterwards is over the top busted. Make it invul, I couldn't care less, it's basically that, when momentum is at peak in meta nowdays and those 10-15s could end up match deciding factor which I've seen happen. DS is the main root of the problem. Anything that goes beyond 2s evade frame and is accessed by a class with additional layers of evades is not cool, more so when this class is first to port on point. While DS may require additional respond in a 1v1 on node and if a core guard or mes uses renew / distort which fully ends in thiefs favor of the node. > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's an honest question: If the Thief is as great as you are making them to be, why aren't we seeing more of them in a team? Why do you even need other professions if you can rotate and cap then keep the node as a Thief easily? > > > > > > > > > > > > My point is, you're having a tunnel vision towards the Thief rather than looking at the team composition that allowed the Thief to do his job effectively and efficiently. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nerfing the Thief will not change the fact that your team comp might be trash. > > > > > > > > > > > > EDIT: typos > > > > > > > > > > You're missing out the point near completly. As I was refering multiple times picture a scenario where there are even circumstances where match is about to end. one team has 2 nodes (say x&y) another 1. There is none on x node, their thief was on y, barely reaches x in time and holds it through uninteractable evades. Or another scenario more common, such as spawn nodes like skyhammer or cannon, you've wiped x/4 they're on spawn in 5s thief able to stall that point inb4 they regroup. DS is near as invuln as you tend to use that before you get condi pressured. only few circumstances where you can punish that is through shocking aura which is quite limited to none and line of warding (support FB) which is difficult to land. Retal is even less negligible in 1v1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > If there is none on node X, then where are the Thieves? Why only one Thief from node Y who rushed to that node X to cap it? If Thief is great at rotation, then the other team must have a Thief that could have prevented the decap. Instead, you paint a rather far-fetched scenario where the other team is lacking this great and powerful Thief in their roster. Then complain about the Thief who did his job, rather than complaining about the trash team comp of the losing team for not having the godly Thief in the first place. Do you see my point? > > > > > > > > In PvP, good team comp with good communication always wins over trash team comp with zero team communication. It doesn't really matter what profession you pick. > > > > > > > > > You do see nearly 1 thief in ladder ranked and ofc in high lvl play atleast 1 and they can all abuse that last second ditch if they know how to rotate somewhat well, doesn't require high mechanical understanding. Meta has been high momentum rotational basis so ofc thief sees play. And finally why should thief have the luxury to stall a point when it's the fastest thing moving compared to other rotational +1 specs like rev holo, guard, mirage (to some extent) which either can be cc'd off the point or burn invulns which costs them that node anyway. > > > > > > > > Again, this proves that you're having tunnel visions towards the Thief without looking at the big picture on what lead to that very specific scenario and circumstances. > > > > > > > > If what your claim is true, then there should be more Thieves in the ranking ladder, but why only 1? Either Thief is great and godly or they are not. If the Thieves are great and godly, we would see more Thief in the top ranks. It wouldn't make sense not to pick a great and godly profession with almost unlimited access to evades -- according to you. However, we see only 1 Thief which proves that this profession is not great and godly at all. > > > > > > > > Sorry but the facts are proving your argument wrong. > > > > > > You're looking balantly ignorant backing those statement mate, those aren't facts those are claimed by your view which seems more like delusional sentimentality. Neither I say they have unlimited access to evades but enough to avoid dmg for say ~ 10s which is majority backed by DS. Why shouldn't DS hinder capture point? > > > > Hey, you've been exaggerating all these time, why cant I? > > > > You claim that the Thief is so good at rotation and keeping a node, yet we only see 1 Thief in ranking and not all team take a Thief. If anyone is delusional, it's you. > > > > Daggerstorm is not nearly as broken as Renewed Focus. What you want will never happen. > > You didn't aswer my comment: Why shouldn't DS hinder capture point? Looks like you're straying further away. No consrtuctive critisism. I'm convinced you're acting on your pride and all. Like give me a good reason to why DS shouldn't give capture point contribution outside of current game mechanics. They probably can change that as an exception. Either way you can stay cocky and lose this discussion. > > Also you seem to have missed the meaning behind preventative, again. I have given you the answer if you bothered reading. Here I'll re-post it, so pay attention; > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > The game already denies points when Thief stealth, now you're suggesting that points should also be denied when they evade. If that would be the case, any profession using evades, stealth, block, invul, etc. should also be denied points. If that would be the rule, then it should be applied to every profession using such tactic and not exclusive to one profession. There's already too many handicaps placed on the Thief. That's why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenAce.3067 Posted February 15, 2019 Author Share Posted February 15, 2019 > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > @"SevenAce.3067" said: > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > @"SevenAce.3067" said: > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > > @"SevenAce.3067" said: > > > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > > > > @"SevenAce.3067" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jack Redline.5379" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"SevenAce.3067" said: > > > > > > > > > DS isnt that powerful nor unstopable that it could decide the game 10 out of 10 times. DS is at best casted when you need to finish up those few downed/near death opponents or when you are almost dead and you need to save ur life from death. As far as i can see what you write here you are Bronze at best so please dont cry and simply git gud. You as a thief have enogh life to withstant DS with 2 dodges. Which i beleive is standard amount of dodges for all classes not to mention all the other skills that block evade etc. There is kitten ton of other BS in this game that needs to be dealt with and DS is certainly not one of them. Good day > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dude, I'm not complaining about it's dmg nor evade aspect but it's ridiculousness of preventing capture point due to it's evade uptime as *the fastest rotational class* in close match circumstances. 4¼s (none-interactive play in most cases) to stall the point from ticking that can be followed up with more evades due to thiefs general high evade kit, is instant can be used along with agility and shadowstep, can be reset by improvisation with rng from steal afterwards is over the top busted. Make it invul, I couldn't care less, it's basically that, when momentum is at peak in meta nowdays and those 10-15s could end up match deciding factor which I've seen happen. DS is the main root of the problem. Anything that goes beyond 2s evade frame and is accessed by a class with additional layers of evades is not cool, more so when this class is first to port on point. While DS may require additional respond in a 1v1 on node and if a core guard or mes uses renew / distort which fully ends in thiefs favor of the node. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's an honest question: If the Thief is as great as you are making them to be, why aren't we seeing more of them in a team? Why do you even need other professions if you can rotate and cap then keep the node as a Thief easily? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My point is, you're having a tunnel vision towards the Thief rather than looking at the team composition that allowed the Thief to do his job effectively and efficiently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nerfing the Thief will not change the fact that your team comp might be trash. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > EDIT: typos > > > > > > > > > > > > You're missing out the point near completly. As I was refering multiple times picture a scenario where there are even circumstances where match is about to end. one team has 2 nodes (say x&y) another 1. There is none on x node, their thief was on y, barely reaches x in time and holds it through uninteractable evades. Or another scenario more common, such as spawn nodes like skyhammer or cannon, you've wiped x/4 they're on spawn in 5s thief able to stall that point inb4 they regroup. DS is near as invuln as you tend to use that before you get condi pressured. only few circumstances where you can punish that is through shocking aura which is quite limited to none and line of warding (support FB) which is difficult to land. Retal is even less negligible in 1v1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If there is none on node X, then where are the Thieves? Why only one Thief from node Y who rushed to that node X to cap it? If Thief is great at rotation, then the other team must have a Thief that could have prevented the decap. Instead, you paint a rather far-fetched scenario where the other team is lacking this great and powerful Thief in their roster. Then complain about the Thief who did his job, rather than complaining about the trash team comp of the losing team for not having the godly Thief in the first place. Do you see my point? > > > > > > > > > > In PvP, good team comp with good communication always wins over trash team comp with zero team communication. It doesn't really matter what profession you pick. > > > > > > > > > > > You do see nearly 1 thief in ladder ranked and ofc in high lvl play atleast 1 and they can all abuse that last second ditch if they know how to rotate somewhat well, doesn't require high mechanical understanding. Meta has been high momentum rotational basis so ofc thief sees play. And finally why should thief have the luxury to stall a point when it's the fastest thing moving compared to other rotational +1 specs like rev holo, guard, mirage (to some extent) which either can be cc'd off the point or burn invulns which costs them that node anyway. > > > > > > > > > > Again, this proves that you're having tunnel visions towards the Thief without looking at the big picture on what lead to that very specific scenario and circumstances. > > > > > > > > > > If what your claim is true, then there should be more Thieves in the ranking ladder, but why only 1? Either Thief is great and godly or they are not. If the Thieves are great and godly, we would see more Thief in the top ranks. It wouldn't make sense not to pick a great and godly profession with almost unlimited access to evades -- according to you. However, we see only 1 Thief which proves that this profession is not great and godly at all. > > > > > > > > > > Sorry but the facts are proving your argument wrong. > > > > > > > > You're looking balantly ignorant backing those statement mate, those aren't facts those are claimed by your view which seems more like delusional sentimentality. Neither I say they have unlimited access to evades but enough to avoid dmg for say ~ 10s which is majority backed by DS. Why shouldn't DS hinder capture point? > > > > > > Hey, you've been exaggerating all these time, why cant I? > > > > > > You claim that the Thief is so good at rotation and keeping a node, yet we only see 1 Thief in ranking and not all team take a Thief. If anyone is delusional, it's you. > > > > > > Daggerstorm is not nearly as broken as Renewed Focus. What you want will never happen. > > > > You didn't aswer my comment: Why shouldn't DS hinder capture point? Looks like you're straying further away. No consrtuctive critisism. I'm convinced you're acting on your pride and all. Like give me a good reason to why DS shouldn't give capture point contribution outside of current game mechanics. They probably can change that as an exception. Either way you can stay cocky and lose this discussion. > > > > Also you seem to have missed the meaning behind preventative, again. > > I have given you the answer if you bothered reading. Here I'll re-post it, so pay attention; > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > The game already denies points when Thief stealth, now you're suggesting that points should also be denied when they evade. If that would be the case, any profession using evades, stealth, block, invul, etc. should also be denied points. If that would be the rule, then it should be applied to every profession using such tactic and not exclusive to one profession. There's already too many handicaps placed on the Thief. > > That's why. And here's likewise I don't find that to be a good enough reason to have it stay in that fashion; it's the longest evade, **doubled from secondmost** (which is already a trait used in most s/d builds). How many time do I have to emphasis that part? Blocks can be more frequently countered, while the longest block is 3s and there's more unblockable stuff going around but that's not the point. Any inc skills are negated near similarly to invulns. No cc of any sort like knockbacks, except shocking aura which is super rare due to tempest being subpar, A.E.D (gimmick rare variance in holo) has to trigger the lethal dmg from gadgeteer which is not going to happen in a 1v1 scenario or in time for that matter. None is running surging cause it cripples their build efficiency for ovious reasons. - In the case of endure pain type etc unflinching fortitude, they're still susceptible to inc conditions and cc |:(duelists, less efficient roamers) - Is accessed in a class that has already above standard in evades, (those are fine, dagger storm is not; it overlaps boundaries). No other proffession comes close to having that accessibility over the top in 1 skill. - But most notably the class is the fastest in node to node, more than twices as consitent in speed compared to other rotational builds. Once again I have to emphasis how improtant few seconds can matter in certain circumstances. To clerify for your sake I'm not looking at general evades, only DS. Obviously a thief isn't a node holder and shouldn't be looked in that fashion but occurances of preventative 1vx (in a limited time frame) it would be wise to tune it down in some capacity or form. My main proposal is hence denial of capture point while using DS, doesn't overshadow it as much or if any in tf and the skill can mostly stay the same for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Safandula.8723 Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 > @"SevenAce.3067" said: > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > @"SevenAce.3067" said: > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > @"SevenAce.3067" said: > > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > > > @"SevenAce.3067" said: > > > > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > > > > > @"SevenAce.3067" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jack Redline.5379" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"SevenAce.3067" said: > > > > > > > > > > DS isnt that powerful nor unstopable that it could decide the game 10 out of 10 times. DS is at best casted when you need to finish up those few downed/near death opponents or when you are almost dead and you need to save ur life from death. As far as i can see what you write here you are Bronze at best so please dont cry and simply git gud. You as a thief have enogh life to withstant DS with 2 dodges. Which i beleive is standard amount of dodges for all classes not to mention all the other skills that block evade etc. There is kitten ton of other BS in this game that needs to be dealt with and DS is certainly not one of them. Good day > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dude, I'm not complaining about it's dmg nor evade aspect but it's ridiculousness of preventing capture point due to it's evade uptime as *the fastest rotational class* in close match circumstances. 4¼s (none-interactive play in most cases) to stall the point from ticking that can be followed up with more evades due to thiefs general high evade kit, is instant can be used along with agility and shadowstep, can be reset by improvisation with rng from steal afterwards is over the top busted. Make it invul, I couldn't care less, it's basically that, when momentum is at peak in meta nowdays and those 10-15s could end up match deciding factor which I've seen happen. DS is the main root of the problem. Anything that goes beyond 2s evade frame and is accessed by a class with additional layers of evades is not cool, more so when this class is first to port on point. While DS may require additional respond in a 1v1 on node and if a core guard or mes uses renew / distort which fully ends in thiefs favor of the node. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's an honest question: If the Thief is as great as you are making them to be, why aren't we seeing more of them in a team? Why do you even need other professions if you can rotate and cap then keep the node as a Thief easily? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My point is, you're having a tunnel vision towards the Thief rather than looking at the team composition that allowed the Thief to do his job effectively and efficiently. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nerfing the Thief will not change the fact that your team comp might be trash. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > EDIT: typos > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're missing out the point near completly. As I was refering multiple times picture a scenario where there are even circumstances where match is about to end. one team has 2 nodes (say x&y) another 1. There is none on x node, their thief was on y, barely reaches x in time and holds it through uninteractable evades. Or another scenario more common, such as spawn nodes like skyhammer or cannon, you've wiped x/4 they're on spawn in 5s thief able to stall that point inb4 they regroup. DS is near as invuln as you tend to use that before you get condi pressured. only few circumstances where you can punish that is through shocking aura which is quite limited to none and line of warding (support FB) which is difficult to land. Retal is even less negligible in 1v1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If there is none on node X, then where are the Thieves? Why only one Thief from node Y who rushed to that node X to cap it? If Thief is great at rotation, then the other team must have a Thief that could have prevented the decap. Instead, you paint a rather far-fetched scenario where the other team is lacking this great and powerful Thief in their roster. Then complain about the Thief who did his job, rather than complaining about the trash team comp of the losing team for not having the godly Thief in the first place. Do you see my point? > > > > > > > > > > > > In PvP, good team comp with good communication always wins over trash team comp with zero team communication. It doesn't really matter what profession you pick. > > > > > > > > > > > > > You do see nearly 1 thief in ladder ranked and ofc in high lvl play atleast 1 and they can all abuse that last second ditch if they know how to rotate somewhat well, doesn't require high mechanical understanding. Meta has been high momentum rotational basis so ofc thief sees play. And finally why should thief have the luxury to stall a point when it's the fastest thing moving compared to other rotational +1 specs like rev holo, guard, mirage (to some extent) which either can be cc'd off the point or burn invulns which costs them that node anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, this proves that you're having tunnel visions towards the Thief without looking at the big picture on what lead to that very specific scenario and circumstances. > > > > > > > > > > > > If what your claim is true, then there should be more Thieves in the ranking ladder, but why only 1? Either Thief is great and godly or they are not. If the Thieves are great and godly, we would see more Thief in the top ranks. It wouldn't make sense not to pick a great and godly profession with almost unlimited access to evades -- according to you. However, we see only 1 Thief which proves that this profession is not great and godly at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry but the facts are proving your argument wrong. > > > > > > > > > > You're looking balantly ignorant backing those statement mate, those aren't facts those are claimed by your view which seems more like delusional sentimentality. Neither I say they have unlimited access to evades but enough to avoid dmg for say ~ 10s which is majority backed by DS. Why shouldn't DS hinder capture point? > > > > > > > > Hey, you've been exaggerating all these time, why cant I? > > > > > > > > You claim that the Thief is so good at rotation and keeping a node, yet we only see 1 Thief in ranking and not all team take a Thief. If anyone is delusional, it's you. > > > > > > > > Daggerstorm is not nearly as broken as Renewed Focus. What you want will never happen. > > > > > > You didn't aswer my comment: Why shouldn't DS hinder capture point? Looks like you're straying further away. No consrtuctive critisism. I'm convinced you're acting on your pride and all. Like give me a good reason to why DS shouldn't give capture point contribution outside of current game mechanics. They probably can change that as an exception. Either way you can stay cocky and lose this discussion. > > > > > > Also you seem to have missed the meaning behind preventative, again. > > > > I have given you the answer if you bothered reading. Here I'll re-post it, so pay attention; > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > The game already denies points when Thief stealth, now you're suggesting that points should also be denied when they evade. If that would be the case, any profession using evades, stealth, block, invul, etc. should also be denied points. If that would be the rule, then it should be applied to every profession using such tactic and not exclusive to one profession. There's already too many handicaps placed on the Thief. > > > > That's why. > > And here's likewise I don't find that to be a good enough reason to have it stay in that fashion; it's the longest evade, **doubled from secondmost** (which is already a trait used in most s/d builds). How many time do I have to emphasis that part? Blocks can be more frequently countered, while the longest block is 3s and there's more unblockable stuff going around but that's not the point. Any inc skills are negated near similarly to invulns. No cc of any sort like knockbacks, except shocking aura which is super rare due to tempest being subpar, A.E.D (gimmick rare variance in holo) has to trigger the lethal dmg from gadgeteer which is not going to happen in a 1v1 scenario or in time for that matter. None is running surging cause it cripples their build efficiency for ovious reasons. > - In the case of endure pain type etc unflinching fortitude, they're still susceptible to inc conditions and cc |:(duelists, less efficient roamers) > - Is accessed in a class that has already above standard in evades, (those are fine, dagger storm is not; it overlaps boundaries). No other proffession comes close to having that accessibility over the top in 1 skill. > - But most notably the class is the fastest in node to node, more than twices as consitent in speed compared to other rotational builds. > > Once again I have to emphasis how improtant few seconds can matter in certain circumstances. To clerify for your sake I'm not looking at general evades, only DS. Obviously a thief isn't a node holder and shouldn't be looked in that fashion but occurances of preventative 1vx (in a limited time frame) it would be wise to tune it down in some capacity or form. My main proposal is hence denial of capture point while using DS, doesn't overshadow it as much in tf and the skill can mostly stay the same for that matter. Don't firebrands that are in every game, are using staff? Metabattle build shows they are using staff, I'm just not sure what are ppl rly using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Stealth needs to not provide capture node status so long as DE and SA exist. Let's not forget CiS offers 100% crit immunity, and RoS is already a 33% DR while in stealth, and SE paired with utils like SoA and Shadowstep is a TON of cleansing, all while being untargetable. Opt for SA+Acro+DE provide FG for faster dodge rate + Upper Hand for more initiative to cycle and you end up with a permastealth build with an auto-invuln or cleanse + auto-stunbreak easy build if things get hot with perma-vigor, perma-regen bunker menace that can't be crit, takes 33% otherwise reduced condi damage, performs an AoE blind every 4s on-point, and can force semi-safe stomps by stealthing downed allies on res. Stealth doesn't contribute to point capture for good reason. DS is fine. Maybe needs a damage tweak down for the utility it offers, or it needs to not be a typed skill as Improv can make it over-perform. Stealth contributing to point capture makes no sense otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenAce.3067 Posted February 16, 2019 Author Share Posted February 16, 2019 I shouldn't need to go throught stealth for obvious reasons. I'm sure people can fill you in on that topic gradually or by making a different thread. I can list one major factor, it breaks targeting and direct target skill usage like phase traversal, precision strike, necro axe 2 and autos, scepter autos, while dampering all other projectiles (it becomes like hitting a needle in a haystack) etc. which applies to all proffesions 1 skill shouldn't result in adjusting the entire spectrum of evades and unblockables (which I've already given the argument why). DS is the only skill in the game that is instant and has 4¼s beating all evades and invulns, (even unblockables) for it's duration. The skill already has an effect built-in of reflecting projectiles, which the effect in itself can be adjusted further with additional layer. And I will list few scenarios again and please do not sidetrack (which I'm not inclining all comments but few were) to different boarder: Both sides had near equal scores, our slightly ahead in points, altho they ctrl 2 nodes, we ctrl 1. I went for decap (as a duelist) on close. Right before the last tick to neutrality, Thief jumps and interrupts with instant follow up of DS, game would end in like ~ 15s. It would be a different story if DS prevented capture point (it would just concede the point from there), thief wouldn't able to sustain over a duelist ( Here's another perhaps more common example: Your team won a team fight few moments before spawn node appears, say skyhammer or cannon (and let's say the node is equally essential to both teams). The enemy thief is still alive while his team is on spawn in~4s. He could be preventative until his team has arrived, mostly by the backbone of DS, even better for the enemy team if your team decides to sent an additional player. Of course they wouldn't survive for long outside of DS but that goes for near every class that's getting +1. If DS negated capture point it would intensify thief to consede that node enterily, no value staying when it ticks in their favor. An evade of that caliber is better than any blocks or invulns cause it gives them options which they would otherwise not have. As rotational classe you're looking to assist your node holders with dmg, kill priority targets and decap empty nodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Redline.5379 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 > @"SevenAce.3067" said: >Right before the last tick to neutrality, Thief jumps and interrupts with instant follow up of DS, game would end in like ~ 15s. It would be a different story if DS prevented capture point (it would just concede the point from there), thief wouldn't able to sustain over a duelist ( This made me laugh What makes you think that Thief wouldnt be able to outlive you w/o DS you ever heard of Staff DD or Deadly blossom or attack 3 on sb or s/d? if you would face any thief from silver to lege if he needs to outlive you cuz the win depends on it he would. Thief has DS to make it easier not because it is the only way of doing so. Also a decent thief running either d/p or Distracting daggers or even Tripwire would simply interupt the crap out of you not to mention few really rare but non the less very good thieves running scorpion wire he'd pull you off the node blast you with Vault and if you were still alive after that and not runnung for your dear life he'd blind you or interupt and cripple jumping on node instantly gaining a few ticks w/o even usung DS. AS I SAID above DS is not only for capping it is also defensive utility so you can live w/o it and you CAN outlive ppl on node w/o it. i am doing it many other thieves do it and you either run tic toc glass so you are not able to do it or you never tried Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenAce.3067 Posted February 19, 2019 Author Share Posted February 19, 2019 > @"Jack Redline.5379" said: > > @"SevenAce.3067" said: > >Right before the last tick to neutrality, Thief jumps and interrupts with instant follow up of DS, game would end in like ~ 15s. It would be a different story if DS prevented capture point (it would just concede the point from there), thief wouldn't able to sustain over a duelist ( > > This made me laugh > What makes you think that Thief wouldnt be able to outlive you w/o DS you ever heard of Staff DD or Deadly blossom or attack 3 on sb or s/d? if you would face any thief from silver to lege if he needs to outlive you cuz the win depends on it he would. Thief has DS to make it easier not because it is the only way of doing so. Also a decent thief running either d/p or Distracting daggers or even Tripwire would simply interupt the kitten out of you not to mention few really rare but non the less very good thieves running scorpion wire he'd pull you off the node blast you with Vault and if you were still alive after that and not runnung for your dear life he'd blind you or interupt and cripple jumping on node instantly gaining a few ticks w/o even usung DS. AS I SAID above DS is not only for capping it is also defensive utility so you can live w/o it and you CAN outlive ppl on node w/o it. i am doing it many other thieves do it and you either run tic toc glass so you are not able to do it or you never tried You aren't reading the full scentence and hence the picture (or apologies mabye I wasn't clear). The interrupt was phrased for stopping the node from ticking to natural rather over actual abilities. You lack hindsight for that matter or for sidetracking. Staff or dd doesn't concern me as I find them inefficient in general compared to sd or dp but on the other hand, near every thief in this meta run DS, it's duration cannot be countered in those scenario by any dueslists in current meta. I'm sorry but I can't be bothered to discuss further with you if I have to reiterating past quotes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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