[suggestion] improvisation

[Safandula.8723]

So lastly ppl are talking about this trait mainly cuz of reseting dagger storm, what i personally dont like about that trait is the rng. Sometimes u reset most important skills, sometimes u dont reset anything. Your succes relly on your luck which is kinda dumbing game down. if i duel and get dagger storm reset i feel pretty bad, also get mad at ppl that get this luck against me. imagine the mat where team a wins clutch teamfight with team b, only cuz thief got lucky reset on ds. ppl will get mad

So what if we eleiminate rng part and for example made it like that: " reduce all colddowns by x% when u succesfully land your steal". or "on succesfully landed steal, reset last used utility/elite skill", or some "upon using stolen skill, gain x s of alacrity"

Same with dagger storm, sometimes daggers are hitting ur enemy and sometimes he get 0 dmg. So could the daggers be fired in certain pattern? some daggers clockwie and some anticlockwise. Or just complete rework to that bs skill.

[NuhDah.9812]

"Luck" or combat rng doesn't dumb the game down, it allows instantenious adapting skills to do their thing. You know, like how you need to decide on spot what to do with what was givent to you. It's not strait forward, it's another type of skill called spontaneity.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Instead of rng I wish it worked like the rangers trait quick draw,may be mistaken on trait name,apologies if I am.

[Safandula.8723]

> @"NuhDah.9812" said:

> "Luck" or combat rng doesn't dumb the game down, it allows instantenious adapting skills to do their thing. You know, like how you need to decide on spot what to do with what was givent to you. It's not strait forward, it's another type of skill called spontaneity.

 

I have to agree on that, ur right. But is till feel like, resetting no skills, or the most important ones is not a good design

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

> @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > @"NuhDah.9812" said:

> > "Luck" or combat rng doesn't dumb the game down, it allows instantenious adapting skills to do their thing. You know, like how you need to decide on spot what to do with what was givent to you. It's not strait forward, it's another type of skill called spontaneity.

>

> I have to agree on that, ur right. But is till feel like, resetting no skills, or the most important ones is not a good design

 

Think about it as critical hits. Sometimes you get a big crit hit damage, most of the time you don't. The only thing I don't like about Improv is the ICD on top of the RNG, which in my opinion it's not necessary. With the ICD, it's like rolling a d6 die trying to get a 6 every 20s.

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"NuhDah.9812" said:

> "Luck" or combat rng doesn't dumb the game down, it allows instantenious adapting skills to do their thing. You know, like how you need to decide on spot what to do with what was givent to you. It's not strait forward, it's another type of skill called spontaneity.

 

I disagree, especially in respects to Steal.

 

The number of cases it's useful to save steal as a defensive tool in order to reset a utility is extremely few, and the enemy has no way of knowing which skill type/skills got reset outside of signets, by just looking at their buff bars. Invisible RNG only takes away depth from combat, because part of high-level play is removing any semblance of RNG from the game to be able to react, calculate, and predict absolutely everything that's going to happen, in advance. It's like claiming passive procs/invulns and stuff like Fire/Air sigils add depth to combat because they demand players to adapt, which these effects do. But not in a good way because it makes committed decision-making pretty much never worth it. Invisible gains are horrible for maintaining a competitive environment and every high-skill player will tell you that. It doesn't force adaptation and smarter play; it just makes it easier for worse players to beat better ones, because the better ones can't actually put their skills to use.

 

I'd honestly prefer Improv reworked entirely. The thief becomes very difficult to balance due to this trait, since getting such drastic cuts in cooldowns/increased uptime on major-player utility skills creates a large disparity between builds that use DA and those which don't, and makes for encounters swing wildly in or out of favor of the thief due to the magnitude of impact of what gets reset and when.

 

Double casting stolen items is nice, and probably should stay somewhere on the thief, even if not in DA, but the cooldown resetting, even partially, really shouldn't exist.

[syszery.1592]

> @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > @"NuhDah.9812" said:

> > > "Luck" or combat rng doesn't dumb the game down, it allows instantenious adapting skills to do their thing. You know, like how you need to decide on spot what to do with what was givent to you. It's not strait forward, it's another type of skill called spontaneity.

> >

> > I have to agree on that, ur right. But is till feel like, resetting no skills, or the most important ones is not a good design

>

> Think about it as critical hits. Sometimes you get a big crit hit damage, most of the time you don't. The only thing I don't like about Improv is the ICD on top of the RNG, which in my opinion it's not necessary. With the ICD, it's like rolling a d6 die trying to get a 6 every 20s.

 

The ICD was added in August 2017, just one month before PoF. I don't know for sure but I could imagine that they added this because otherwise Daredevil would be disadvantaged compared to S/D core or Deadeye since the latter have traits or utilities that reset Steal. And it would probably align too well with Mercy...

 

_\Edit: That's what they wrote in the patch notes:_

> With Path of Fire™ on the horizon, we'll soon be adding nine new elite specializations with nine new trait lines to the game. Along with these new additions, we are also taking some time to do a pass on the older trait lines in order to update them for the current state of the game. There has been a general pass on wording for traits to better clarify what they do, as well as several functionality changes across all core profession traits and some Heart of Thorns™ elite specialization traits. These changes are aimed at improving the synergy of these old traits with the lines they live in as well as across other lines.

[NuhDah.9812]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > @"NuhDah.9812" said:

> > "Luck" or combat rng doesn't dumb the game down, it allows instantenious adapting skills to do their thing. You know, like how you need to decide on spot what to do with what was givent to you. It's not strait forward, it's another type of skill called spontaneity.

>

> I disagree, especially in respects to Steal.

>

> The number of cases it's useful to save steal as a defensive tool in order to reset a utility is extremely few, and the enemy has no way of knowing which skill type/skills got reset outside of signets, by just looking at their buff bars. Invisible RNG only takes away depth from combat, because part of high-level play is removing any semblance of RNG from the game to be able to react, calculate, and predict absolutely everything that's going to happen, in advance. It's like claiming passive procs/invulns and stuff like Fire/Air sigils add depth to combat because they demand players to adapt, which these effects do. But not in a good way because it makes committed decision-making pretty much never worth it. Invisible gains are horrible for maintaining a competitive environment and every high-skill player will tell you that. It doesn't force adaptation and smarter play; it just makes it easier for worse players to beat better ones, because the better ones can't actually put their skills to use.

>

> I'd honestly prefer Improv reworked entirely. The thief becomes very difficult to balance due to this trait, since getting such drastic cuts in cooldowns/increased uptime on major-player utility skills creates a large disparity between builds that use DA and those which don't, and makes for encounters swing wildly in or out of favor of the thief due to the magnitude of impact of what gets reset and when.

>

> Double casting stolen items is nice, and probably should stay somewhere on the thief, even if not in DA, but the cooldown resetting, even partially, really shouldn't exist.

 

There are players that think better at this is just playing the meta and what everyone their mom knows, and there are those who think that being a good player is someone who knows the meta from inside out, but can also adapt to unusual situations too. If a competitive game would be only about predictions it would get boring very fast. I understand your view about this, but if you take into account all possibilities means you're a better player, not just strictly the ones that are easily predictable or strait forward. I know you're an experienced player so I don't want to argue with you you, it's just another way of seeing the gameplay and yeah, it's somewhat as someone else said there are similarities with critical strike here, it's a very common stat that exists widely in the gaming world and for a reason, the fact that it's unpredictable make it less boring and promotes instant adaptability.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

> @"syszery.1592" said:

> > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > > @"Safandula.8723" said:

> > > > @"NuhDah.9812" said:

> > > > "Luck" or combat rng doesn't dumb the game down, it allows instantenious adapting skills to do their thing. You know, like how you need to decide on spot what to do with what was givent to you. It's not strait forward, it's another type of skill called spontaneity.

> > >

> > > I have to agree on that, ur right. But is till feel like, resetting no skills, or the most important ones is not a good design

> >

> > Think about it as critical hits. Sometimes you get a big crit hit damage, most of the time you don't. The only thing I don't like about Improv is the ICD on top of the RNG, which in my opinion it's not necessary. With the ICD, it's like rolling a d6 die trying to get a 6 every 20s.

>

> The ICD was added in August 2017, just one month before PoF. I don't know for sure but I could imagine that they added this because otherwise Daredevil would be disadvantaged compared to S/D core or Deadeye since the latter have traits or utilities that reset Steal. And it would probably align too well with Mercy...

>

> _\Edit: That's what they wrote in the patch notes:_

> > With Path of Fire™ on the horizon, we'll soon be adding nine new elite specializations with nine new trait lines to the game. Along with these new additions, we are also taking some time to do a pass on the older trait lines in order to update them for the current state of the game. There has been a general pass on wording for traits to better clarify what they do, as well as several functionality changes across all core profession traits and some Heart of Thorns™ elite specialization traits. These changes are aimed at improving the synergy of these old traits with the lines they live in as well as across other lines.

 

Which doesn't makes a lot of sense. Mercy has its own CD of 30s, so adding a 20s ICD does nothing really since the ICD will be over even before Mercy goes out of CD. You have to be super super lucky to trigger Improv back to back with Mercy. If they want to prevent this _ad infinitum_ back to back possibility, then they should have just added a casting time on Mercy making it vulnerable to interrupt. As for Core S/D, Swindler already has its own ICD, so Improv having its own ICD is just redundant.