bluri.2653 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @"Reaper Alim.4176" said: > > @bluri.2653 said: > > dw scourge and sb surely gets nerfed. I just hope they tweak it lower slowly and not start with like lets nerf something by 50% > > We all now scourge and spellbreaker are getting removed from the game. I'm just saying is why Chronomancer and Daredevil didn't get this same treatment. Daredevil only got nerfed, it because it solo'd a PvE raid boss. And ANet did a emergency nerf on that class in no time flat. Yet those two specs are sooo over tuned that before scourge and spellbreaker came along it was mandatory to have them in order to climb. > > I'm just pointing out the mentality you guys have. "Only my class is allowed to be brokenly over tuned and everyone else should have to build around me." Type attitude. > > Can Soulbeast, Weaver, and Renegade also gets specs that are just as brokenly over tuned as Chronomancer and Daredevil are? Or are well just going to be fine with DD and Chrono being the only broken specs allowed? I can tell ur not experienced in pvp. Anyway just to give u a reply 1. Chrono is not even close to what it was a year ago, look at the tournament we did and my vod no mesmers was played, chrono gets negated vs sb. 1 drd played. 2. Thief got several endurance nerfs including PI nerfed by 15% and dont forget all sigils got revamped(good imo) So yeah u clearly have no idea what ur on about but dw ive seen u before and already know that, but i still give u a response:) I personally dont care what they do i was just stating its quite clear anet will nerf sb/scourge Only issue i have is the visual clutter from firebrand/holo/scourge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majirah.5089 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > @Majirah.5089 said: > > > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > > So, i'm really new to pvp but now that i understand the mechanics of it, my skills, other classes skills, when to block, when to disengage a lost fight, etc, i'm being considerably sucessfull. > > > Fact is, you don't need to be a pro to know that Scourges and Spellbreakers are, hm, broken. The Spellbreakers, in my opinion, is the worst of all. What i'm missing? These guys are invul all the time, can't even hit them, seriously. The Scourges are, as stated above, "slow-ish moving nuclear warhead", but they can be harmed. Problem is i can't stand on a point with them with my guardian, what i suppose wasn't meant to happen, right? > > > > > > > I think the first part of your first sentence said it all. You are new to pvp. You don't know enough to call them broken. Invulnerable all the time? Can't even hit them? Hyperbole much? That or severe learn to play. Or both. > > Ok, clearly a Spellbreaker player (not a single word about Scourge). > I'm being honest when i tell that i'm new to pvp, but still, the second part of my sentence states that i'm not hitting random buttons and hoping for the best (what i know happens a lot in spvp). You attacked me and not a single word about the fact: Spellbreakers. > Let the salt aside and tell me, if Spellbreaker isn't broken, how to counter it? Whats yours flaws? Things like this should happen? Look how this guy is being bombed by 5 ppl, dont even bother with positioning, dont even need to use his heal skill for the entire fight! If was monkeys behind the keyboard on the other side against any other class this guy would be dead. > > I didn't attack. I called out the hyberbole or lack of knowledge of class mechanics that was obvious in your post. I do indeed play spellbreaker and other warrior specializations. But I also play all the other professions with the exception of Mesmer. I've only played Mesmer a few times. I have played thief and ranger 10 times more than warrior. I have played guardian probably 5 times more than warrior. I have played engineer slightly more than warrior. I have played warrior and necro about equally with the edge going slightly to necro. The only ones that I have played less than warrior are ele, revenant, and Mesmer. The reasons I do my best to play all professions is to understand them and counter them. This is the reason that I think mesmers are the most op class. It's because I don't understand them or how to counter them. How can I since I have only played like 15 matches with them? I can't. It would be unreasonable for me to complain about them with my lack of knowledge about them because any issue I have with them is surely learn to play. There have been several threads on spellbreaker and scourges. Most people complaining about spellbreaker a have an issue with full counter. In pretty much every thread their have been explanations as to how to counter it. People just refuse the obvious answers and instead post videos of bads getting blown up as proof of a certain class or mechanic being op. Then say where are the answers? They are all over the place on the forums. People say learn to play a lot because honestly in most cases most forum QQ comes down to learn to play. The expansion has been out for a couple weeks. People are still learning, but they are learning. I have had full counter be countered more and more often with the passing days. I have seen people run out of sand shades more and more often. There may be some tweaks that happen, but honestly more learn to play needs to happen first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crinn.7864 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @bluri.2653 said: > > @"Reaper Alim.4176" said: > > > @bluri.2653 said: > > > dw scourge and sb surely gets nerfed. I just hope they tweak it lower slowly and not start with like lets nerf something by 50% > > > > We all now scourge and spellbreaker are getting removed from the game. I'm just saying is why Chronomancer and Daredevil didn't get this same treatment. Daredevil only got nerfed, it because it solo'd a PvE raid boss. And ANet did a emergency nerf on that class in no time flat. Yet those two specs are sooo over tuned that before scourge and spellbreaker came along it was mandatory to have them in order to climb. > > > > I'm just pointing out the mentality you guys have. "Only my class is allowed to be brokenly over tuned and everyone else should have to build around me." Type attitude. > > > > Can Soulbeast, Weaver, and Renegade also gets specs that are just as brokenly over tuned as Chronomancer and Daredevil are? Or are well just going to be fine with DD and Chrono being the only broken specs allowed? > > > I can tell ur not experienced in pvp. > > Anyway just to give u a reply > > 1. Chrono is not even close to what it was a year ago, look at the tournament we did and my vod no mesmers was played, chrono gets negated vs sb. 1 drd played. > 2. Thief got several endurance nerfs including PI nerfed by 15% and dont forget all sigils got revamped(good imo) > > So yeah u clearly have no idea what ur on about but dw ive seen u before and already know that, but i still give u a response:) > > I personally dont care what they do i was just stating its quite clear anet will nerf sb/scourge > > Only issue i have is the visual clutter from firebrand/holo/scourge I think you misunderstand the complaint being lodged against thieves. He isn't talking about the current meta, he is talking about how if spellbreaker and scourge get nerfed we are just going to go back to the pre-PoF meta of "why would you ever bother playing anything but thief/Mesmer if you want to climb in ranked" People are just getting really tired of having build viability always being determined by "can said build survive a d/p thief" nevermind the fact that nobody except thief can reliably kill thief. Some of us would rather have a scourge or warrior meta, becuase at least those classes are mortal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 i just hope A-net finally takes a breather before they begin with balance, and not fucking overnerf shit into uselessness. honestly wouldn't surprise me that they overnerf shit cause the balance patch takes a fuckton of time inbetween Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malafaia.8903 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @Majirah.5089 said: > > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > > @Majirah.5089 said: > > > > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > > > So, i'm really new to pvp but now that i understand the mechanics of it, my skills, other classes skills, when to block, when to disengage a lost fight, etc, i'm being considerably sucessfull. > > > > Fact is, you don't need to be a pro to know that Scourges and Spellbreakers are, hm, broken. The Spellbreakers, in my opinion, is the worst of all. What i'm missing? These guys are invul all the time, can't even hit them, seriously. The Scourges are, as stated above, "slow-ish moving nuclear warhead", but they can be harmed. Problem is i can't stand on a point with them with my guardian, what i suppose wasn't meant to happen, right? > > > > > > > > > > I think the first part of your first sentence said it all. You are new to pvp. You don't know enough to call them broken. Invulnerable all the time? Can't even hit them? Hyperbole much? That or severe learn to play. Or both. > > > > Ok, clearly a Spellbreaker player (not a single word about Scourge). > > I'm being honest when i tell that i'm new to pvp, but still, the second part of my sentence states that i'm not hitting random buttons and hoping for the best (what i know happens a lot in spvp). You attacked me and not a single word about the fact: Spellbreakers. > > Let the salt aside and tell me, if Spellbreaker isn't broken, how to counter it? Whats yours flaws? Things like this should happen? Look how this guy is being bombed by 5 ppl, dont even bother with positioning, dont even need to use his heal skill for the entire fight! If was monkeys behind the keyboard on the other side against any other class this guy would be dead. > > > > > > I didn't attack. I called out the hyberbole or lack of knowledge of class mechanics that was obvious in your post. > > I do indeed play spellbreaker and other warrior specializations. But I also play all the other professions with the exception of Mesmer. I've only played Mesmer a few times. I have played thief and ranger 10 times more than warrior. I have played guardian probably 5 times more than warrior. I have played engineer slightly more than warrior. I have played warrior and necro about equally with the edge going slightly to necro. The only ones that I have played less than warrior are ele, revenant, and Mesmer. > > The reasons I do my best to play all professions is to understand them and counter them. This is the reason that I think mesmers are the most op class. It's because I don't understand them or how to counter them. How can I since I have only played like 15 matches with them? I can't. It would be unreasonable for me to complain about them with my lack of knowledge about them because any issue I have with them is surely learn to play. > > There have been several threads on spellbreaker and scourges. Most people complaining about spellbreaker a have an issue with full counter. In pretty much every thread their have been explanations as to how to counter it. People just refuse the obvious answers and instead post videos of bads getting blown up as proof of a certain class or mechanic being op. Then say where are the answers? They are all over the place on the forums. > > People say learn to play a lot because honestly in most cases most forum QQ comes down to learn to play. The expansion has been out for a couple weeks. People are still learning, but they are learning. I have had full counter be countered more and more often with the passing days. I have seen people run out of sand shades more and more often. There may be some tweaks that happen, but honestly more learn to play needs to happen first. Great, thanks. Seems like we're having a productive debate now. Yes, i lack knowledge of Warriors builds in general, but i'm with you when you say "...full counter be countered more and more often with the passing days.". First time i got ganked by full counter i've finished the match and came to YT to understand what tha hell was that. That being understood, just dont attack when the animation pops, no problems. The problem is that this animation pops every 8 seconds. When its not up you still can use shield stance from time to time if things gets nasty. What about the traits? Shield master for example. (And i just came from metabattle where i've got this infos now). I'm assuming you don't think Spellbreakers need a nerf. So, i'm asking for an advice from a more experienced player on how to play against spellbreakers the way it is now. I play a Burn DH, a Power Druid and a Condi Reaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malafaia.8903 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @Caedmon.6798 said: > > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > > @Majirah.5089 said: > > > > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > > > So, i'm really new to pvp but now that i understand the mechanics of it, my skills, other classes skills, when to block, when to disengage a lost fight, etc, i'm being considerably sucessfull. > > > > Fact is, you don't need to be a pro to know that Scourges and Spellbreakers are, hm, broken. The Spellbreakers, in my opinion, is the worst of all. What i'm missing? These guys are invul all the time, can't even hit them, seriously. The Scourges are, as stated above, "slow-ish moving nuclear warhead", but they can be harmed. Problem is i can't stand on a point with them with my guardian, what i suppose wasn't meant to happen, right? > > > > > > > > > > I think the first part of your first sentence said it all. You are new to pvp. You don't know enough to call them broken. Invulnerable all the time? Can't even hit them? Hyperbole much? That or severe learn to play. Or both. > > > > Ok, clearly a Spellbreaker player (not a single word about Scourge). > > I'm being honest when i tell that i'm new to pvp, but still, the second part of my sentence states that i'm not hitting random buttons and hoping for the best (what i know happens a lot in spvp). You attacked me and not a single word about the fact: Spellbreakers. > > Let the salt aside and tell me, if Spellbreaker isn't broken, how to counter it? Whats yours flaws? Things like this should happen? Look how this guy is being bombed by 5 ppl, dont even bother with positioning, dont even need to use his heal skill for the entire fight! If was monkeys behind the keyboard on the other side against any other class this guy would be dead. > > > > > > You notice how this are All low ranks,prob never pvpd before ? Also to add and not to bragg,ive had my own 1on4 or 1on5 on core,berserk and way before /pof/hot.A vid like this proofs absolutely nothing besides the fact a pvper is demolishing pvers. > > I know a thief buddy that did the same,i know a nec buddy that did the same aswell,its meaningless besides knowing how to play and the type of foe youre dealing with,no matter what class you run. Point is this guy can hold almost 2 minutes without taking almost no damage. So, my question still remains: If Spellbreaker isn't broken, how to counter it? Whats this class flaws? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan.1968 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > @Caedmon.6798 said: > > > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > > > @Majirah.5089 said: > > > > > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > > > > So, i'm really new to pvp but now that i understand the mechanics of it, my skills, other classes skills, when to block, when to disengage a lost fight, etc, i'm being considerably sucessfull. > > > > > Fact is, you don't need to be a pro to know that Scourges and Spellbreakers are, hm, broken. The Spellbreakers, in my opinion, is the worst of all. What i'm missing? These guys are invul all the time, can't even hit them, seriously. The Scourges are, as stated above, "slow-ish moving nuclear warhead", but they can be harmed. Problem is i can't stand on a point with them with my guardian, what i suppose wasn't meant to happen, right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the first part of your first sentence said it all. You are new to pvp. You don't know enough to call them broken. Invulnerable all the time? Can't even hit them? Hyperbole much? That or severe learn to play. Or both. > > > > > > Ok, clearly a Spellbreaker player (not a single word about Scourge). > > > I'm being honest when i tell that i'm new to pvp, but still, the second part of my sentence states that i'm not hitting random buttons and hoping for the best (what i know happens a lot in spvp). You attacked me and not a single word about the fact: Spellbreakers. > > > Let the salt aside and tell me, if Spellbreaker isn't broken, how to counter it? Whats yours flaws? Things like this should happen? Look how this guy is being bombed by 5 ppl, dont even bother with positioning, dont even need to use his heal skill for the entire fight! If was monkeys behind the keyboard on the other side against any other class this guy would be dead. > > > > > > > > > > You notice how this are All low ranks,prob never pvpd before ? Also to add and not to bragg,ive had my own 1on4 or 1on5 on core,berserk and way before /pof/hot.A vid like this proofs absolutely nothing besides the fact a pvper is demolishing pvers. > > > > I know a thief buddy that did the same,i know a nec buddy that did the same aswell,its meaningless besides knowing how to play and the type of foe youre dealing with,no matter what class you run. > > Point is this guy can hold almost 2 minutes without taking almost no damage. > So, my question still remains: If Spellbreaker isn't broken, how to counter it? Whats this class flaws? a ranged class with high mobility, condi classes that isn't reliant on spamming all the shit on the ground, and bunker engin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malafaia.8903 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @Lan.1968 said: > > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > > @Caedmon.6798 said: > > > > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > > > > @Majirah.5089 said: > > > > > > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > > > > > So, i'm really new to pvp but now that i understand the mechanics of it, my skills, other classes skills, when to block, when to disengage a lost fight, etc, i'm being considerably sucessfull. > > > > > > Fact is, you don't need to be a pro to know that Scourges and Spellbreakers are, hm, broken. The Spellbreakers, in my opinion, is the worst of all. What i'm missing? These guys are invul all the time, can't even hit them, seriously. The Scourges are, as stated above, "slow-ish moving nuclear warhead", but they can be harmed. Problem is i can't stand on a point with them with my guardian, what i suppose wasn't meant to happen, right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the first part of your first sentence said it all. You are new to pvp. You don't know enough to call them broken. Invulnerable all the time? Can't even hit them? Hyperbole much? That or severe learn to play. Or both. > > > > > > > > Ok, clearly a Spellbreaker player (not a single word about Scourge). > > > > I'm being honest when i tell that i'm new to pvp, but still, the second part of my sentence states that i'm not hitting random buttons and hoping for the best (what i know happens a lot in spvp). You attacked me and not a single word about the fact: Spellbreakers. > > > > Let the salt aside and tell me, if Spellbreaker isn't broken, how to counter it? Whats yours flaws? Things like this should happen? Look how this guy is being bombed by 5 ppl, dont even bother with positioning, dont even need to use his heal skill for the entire fight! If was monkeys behind the keyboard on the other side against any other class this guy would be dead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You notice how this are All low ranks,prob never pvpd before ? Also to add and not to bragg,ive had my own 1on4 or 1on5 on core,berserk and way before /pof/hot.A vid like this proofs absolutely nothing besides the fact a pvper is demolishing pvers. > > > > > > I know a thief buddy that did the same,i know a nec buddy that did the same aswell,its meaningless besides knowing how to play and the type of foe youre dealing with,no matter what class you run. > > > > Point is this guy can hold almost 2 minutes without taking almost no damage. > > So, my question still remains: If Spellbreaker isn't broken, how to counter it? Whats this class flaws? > > a ranged class with high mobility, condi classes that isn't reliant on spamming all the kitten on the ground, and bunker engin. As a main Druid i can guarantee you i can't penetrate this guys defense with spike damage. Not to mention that maybe Spellbreakers have a better mobility too with whirlwind attack, aura slicer, rush... If a Spellbreaker wants to put pressure, he will put pressure. Point Blank Shot will knock them back sometimes... SOMETIMES. So, "a ranged class with high mobility" won't counter it. As for a condi class i think it'll be a longer fight, i agree on that. But again, the spellbreaker pressure and some of its regen i don't think the fight will end bad for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majirah.5089 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > @Majirah.5089 said: > > > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > > > @Majirah.5089 said: > > > > > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > > > > So, i'm really new to pvp but now that i understand the mechanics of it, my skills, other classes skills, when to block, when to disengage a lost fight, etc, i'm being considerably sucessfull. > > > > > Fact is, you don't need to be a pro to know that Scourges and Spellbreakers are, hm, broken. The Spellbreakers, in my opinion, is the worst of all. What i'm missing? These guys are invul all the time, can't even hit them, seriously. The Scourges are, as stated above, "slow-ish moving nuclear warhead", but they can be harmed. Problem is i can't stand on a point with them with my guardian, what i suppose wasn't meant to happen, right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the first part of your first sentence said it all. You are new to pvp. You don't know enough to call them broken. Invulnerable all the time? Can't even hit them? Hyperbole much? That or severe learn to play. Or both. > > > > > > Ok, clearly a Spellbreaker player (not a single word about Scourge). > > > I'm being honest when i tell that i'm new to pvp, but still, the second part of my sentence states that i'm not hitting random buttons and hoping for the best (what i know happens a lot in spvp). You attacked me and not a single word about the fact: Spellbreakers. > > > Let the salt aside and tell me, if Spellbreaker isn't broken, how to counter it? Whats yours flaws? Things like this should happen? Look how this guy is being bombed by 5 ppl, dont even bother with positioning, dont even need to use his heal skill for the entire fight! If was monkeys behind the keyboard on the other side against any other class this guy would be dead. > > > > > > > > > > I didn't attack. I called out the hyberbole or lack of knowledge of class mechanics that was obvious in your post. > > > > I do indeed play spellbreaker and other warrior specializations. But I also play all the other professions with the exception of Mesmer. I've only played Mesmer a few times. I have played thief and ranger 10 times more than warrior. I have played guardian probably 5 times more than warrior. I have played engineer slightly more than warrior. I have played warrior and necro about equally with the edge going slightly to necro. The only ones that I have played less than warrior are ele, revenant, and Mesmer. > > > > The reasons I do my best to play all professions is to understand them and counter them. This is the reason that I think mesmers are the most op class. It's because I don't understand them or how to counter them. How can I since I have only played like 15 matches with them? I can't. It would be unreasonable for me to complain about them with my lack of knowledge about them because any issue I have with them is surely learn to play. > > > > There have been several threads on spellbreaker and scourges. Most people complaining about spellbreaker a have an issue with full counter. In pretty much every thread their have been explanations as to how to counter it. People just refuse the obvious answers and instead post videos of bads getting blown up as proof of a certain class or mechanic being op. Then say where are the answers? They are all over the place on the forums. > > > > People say learn to play a lot because honestly in most cases most forum QQ comes down to learn to play. The expansion has been out for a couple weeks. People are still learning, but they are learning. I have had full counter be countered more and more often with the passing days. I have seen people run out of sand shades more and more often. There may be some tweaks that happen, but honestly more learn to play needs to happen first. > > Great, thanks. Seems like we're having a productive debate now. > Yes, i lack knowledge of Warriors builds in general, but i'm with you when you say "...full counter be countered more and more often with the passing days.". First time i got ganked by full counter i've finished the match and came to YT to understand what tha hell was that. That being understood, just dont attack when the animation pops, no problems. The problem is that this animation pops every 8 seconds. When its not up you still can use shield stance from time to time if things gets nasty. What about the traits? Shield master for example. (And i just came from metabattle where i've got this infos now). > > I'm assuming you don't think Spellbreakers need a nerf. So, i'm asking for an advice from a more experienced player on how to play against spellbreakers the way it is now. I play a Burn DH, a Power Druid and a Condi Reaper. Yeah sorry I can come off as abrasive. Sometimes it's on purpose. Sometimes it's not. Honestly I'm not the most experienced player, but I have learned a ton in the past year by playing the different specs. One thing: with warriors in general you are going to have a hard time with your burn guardian. Warriors have good access to resistance and condi cleanse with various traits or skills so they can nullify your damage with that. It is a hard counter and their isn't much you can do about that. It would help if burn guardian had more than one condition that does damage, but it's all burn. It's great when people don't have condi cleanse or resistance though, but the higher up you go the more condi counter you will see. Condi reaper isn't as bad because it has more damaging conditions so cleanses aren't as effective (depending on the cleanse), but it is still susceptible to resistance. I honestly try to stick with teammates and stay at range as much as possible. Same goes for encounters with guardians engineers and what not. I think out of the three you would have the easiest time on Druid. From my experience anyway. Condi classes are kinda screwed if the warrior takes too much resistance and cleanses. I always look at the start of every match. Is their a necro? If so I'm taking my resistance skills. Druid on the other hand I just kite and attack with bow and pet. Much easier fight in my opinion. For guardian you can try the meditrapper build. Power based build might have more luck than relying on burn when warriors have resistance. I've seen a few people complaining about resistance. I think that is a much more legitimate complaint than full counter. Though that can apply resistance. Come to think of it. Now that I know you mainly play condi classes this might be why you were saying they were always invulnerable. Core warrior has good defense against condi too. But spellbreaker does add to it. When I fight spellbreakers I have the easiest time staying at range (hence Druid would be better I think). When I'm at range I don't care about full counter. The new build most run is melee oriented so I don't care much about that either. They do have gap closers, but I try to do my best to stay at max range as much as possible via kiting. I think in any game learning to kite well is one of the best skills you can have. I like to stay near objects that I can change my elevation relatively easily. Use hunters arrow to stealth out and reposition. Knock back with longbow 4 if they get too close. Pay attention to their use of shield and full counter to not waste rapid fire. I try to make it a battle of attrition rather than a battle of brute strength. If you do the latter they will win because you play to their strengths. They want you to come at them full force. But if you are plinking at them and kiting them they will have to use their defenses anyway and won't be getting bursts off on you. Then you can kill them. Won't work every time. But that's what I have found to be helpful. I also try not to fight anyone alone if I don't have too. I like to plus 1 and outnumber if I can. No matter the class I'm on or the class I'm fighting. Honestly just takes a lot of practice and a lot of paying attention to what they are doing. That's why I usually default to learn to play. It's more snarky than I want it to be but easier to type on a phone. It's really meant to be pay as much attention to the enemy as possible and learn from each encounter. That's why I think all the nerf this nerf that buff this buff that threads after two weeks are kinda ridiculous. Spellbreaker may need a nerf. Scourge may need a nerf. But I think it should be after people adapt and learn. Then true outliers will be identified rather than the need for adaptation. 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Caedmon.6798 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @Mikeskies.1536 said: > > @Caedmon.6798 said: > > > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > > > @Majirah.5089 said: > > > > > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > > > > So, i'm really new to pvp but now that i understand the mechanics of it, my skills, other classes skills, when to block, when to disengage a lost fight, etc, i'm being considerably sucessfull. > > > > > Fact is, you don't need to be a pro to know that Scourges and Spellbreakers are, hm, broken. The Spellbreakers, in my opinion, is the worst of all. What i'm missing? These guys are invul all the time, can't even hit them, seriously. The Scourges are, as stated above, "slow-ish moving nuclear warhead", but they can be harmed. Problem is i can't stand on a point with them with my guardian, what i suppose wasn't meant to happen, right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the first part of your first sentence said it all. You are new to pvp. You don't know enough to call them broken. Invulnerable all the time? Can't even hit them? Hyperbole much? That or severe learn to play. Or both. > > > > > > Ok, clearly a Spellbreaker player (not a single word about Scourge). > > > I'm being honest when i tell that i'm new to pvp, but still, the second part of my sentence states that i'm not hitting random buttons and hoping for the best (what i know happens a lot in spvp). You attacked me and not a single word about the fact: Spellbreakers. > > > Let the salt aside and tell me, if Spellbreaker isn't broken, how to counter it? Whats yours flaws? Things like this should happen? Look how this guy is being bombed by 5 ppl, dont even bother with positioning, dont even need to use his heal skill for the entire fight! If was monkeys behind the keyboard on the other side against any other class this guy would be dead. > > > > > > > > > > You notice how this are All low ranks,prob never pvpd before ? Also to add and not to bragg,ive had my own 1on4 or 1on5 on core,berserk and way before /pof/hot.A vid like this proofs absolutely nothing besides the fact a pvper is demolishing pvers. > > > > I know a thief buddy that did the same,i know a nec buddy that did the same aswell,its meaningless besides knowing how to play and the type of foe youre dealing with,no matter what class you run. > > Also, there is a Spellbreaker in the group of 5 against the single Spellbreaker. If Spellbreaker was broken and takes no skill to play, Spellbreaker + 4 friends vs a single Spellbreaker should go to Spellbreaker + 4 friends. Exactly,some people just forget that others are just better players,no matter what they run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malafaia.8903 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 > @Majirah.5089 said: > > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > > @Majirah.5089 said: > > > > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > > > > @Majirah.5089 said: > > > > > > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > > > > > So, i'm really new to pvp but now that i understand the mechanics of it, my skills, other classes skills, when to block, when to disengage a lost fight, etc, i'm being considerably sucessfull. > > > > > > Fact is, you don't need to be a pro to know that Scourges and Spellbreakers are, hm, broken. The Spellbreakers, in my opinion, is the worst of all. What i'm missing? These guys are invul all the time, can't even hit them, seriously. The Scourges are, as stated above, "slow-ish moving nuclear warhead", but they can be harmed. Problem is i can't stand on a point with them with my guardian, what i suppose wasn't meant to happen, right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the first part of your first sentence said it all. You are new to pvp. You don't know enough to call them broken. Invulnerable all the time? Can't even hit them? Hyperbole much? That or severe learn to play. Or both. > > > > > > > > Ok, clearly a Spellbreaker player (not a single word about Scourge). > > > > I'm being honest when i tell that i'm new to pvp, but still, the second part of my sentence states that i'm not hitting random buttons and hoping for the best (what i know happens a lot in spvp). You attacked me and not a single word about the fact: Spellbreakers. > > > > Let the salt aside and tell me, if Spellbreaker isn't broken, how to counter it? Whats yours flaws? Things like this should happen? Look how this guy is being bombed by 5 ppl, dont even bother with positioning, dont even need to use his heal skill for the entire fight! If was monkeys behind the keyboard on the other side against any other class this guy would be dead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't attack. I called out the hyberbole or lack of knowledge of class mechanics that was obvious in your post. > > > > > > I do indeed play spellbreaker and other warrior specializations. But I also play all the other professions with the exception of Mesmer. I've only played Mesmer a few times. I have played thief and ranger 10 times more than warrior. I have played guardian probably 5 times more than warrior. I have played engineer slightly more than warrior. I have played warrior and necro about equally with the edge going slightly to necro. The only ones that I have played less than warrior are ele, revenant, and Mesmer. > > > > > > The reasons I do my best to play all professions is to understand them and counter them. This is the reason that I think mesmers are the most op class. It's because I don't understand them or how to counter them. How can I since I have only played like 15 matches with them? I can't. It would be unreasonable for me to complain about them with my lack of knowledge about them because any issue I have with them is surely learn to play. > > > > > > There have been several threads on spellbreaker and scourges. Most people complaining about spellbreaker a have an issue with full counter. In pretty much every thread their have been explanations as to how to counter it. People just refuse the obvious answers and instead post videos of bads getting blown up as proof of a certain class or mechanic being op. Then say where are the answers? They are all over the place on the forums. > > > > > > People say learn to play a lot because honestly in most cases most forum QQ comes down to learn to play. The expansion has been out for a couple weeks. People are still learning, but they are learning. I have had full counter be countered more and more often with the passing days. I have seen people run out of sand shades more and more often. There may be some tweaks that happen, but honestly more learn to play needs to happen first. > > > > Great, thanks. Seems like we're having a productive debate now. > > Yes, i lack knowledge of Warriors builds in general, but i'm with you when you say "...full counter be countered more and more often with the passing days.". First time i got ganked by full counter i've finished the match and came to YT to understand what tha hell was that. That being understood, just dont attack when the animation pops, no problems. The problem is that this animation pops every 8 seconds. When its not up you still can use shield stance from time to time if things gets nasty. What about the traits? Shield master for example. (And i just came from metabattle where i've got this infos now). > > > > I'm assuming you don't think Spellbreakers need a nerf. So, i'm asking for an advice from a more experienced player on how to play against spellbreakers the way it is now. I play a Burn DH, a Power Druid and a Condi Reaper. > > Yeah sorry I can come off as abrasive. Sometimes it's on purpose. Sometimes it's not. Honestly I'm not the most experienced player, but I have learned a ton in the past year by playing the different specs. > > One thing: with warriors in general you are going to have a hard time with your burn guardian. Warriors have good access to resistance and condi cleanse with various traits or skills so they can nullify your damage with that. It is a hard counter and their isn't much you can do about that. It would help if burn guardian had more than one condition that does damage, but it's all burn. It's great when people don't have condi cleanse or resistance though, but the higher up you go the more condi counter you will see. > > Condi reaper isn't as bad because it has more damaging conditions so cleanses aren't as effective (depending on the cleanse), but it is still susceptible to resistance. I honestly try to stick with teammates and stay at range as much as possible. Same goes for encounters with guardians engineers and what not. > > I think out of the three you would have the easiest time on Druid. From my experience anyway. Condi classes are kinda screwed if the warrior takes too much resistance and cleanses. I always look at the start of every match. Is their a necro? If so I'm taking my resistance skills. Druid on the other hand I just kite and attack with bow and pet. Much easier fight in my opinion. > > For guardian you can try the meditrapper build. Power based build might have more luck than relying on burn when warriors have resistance. > > I've seen a few people complaining about resistance. I think that is a much more legitimate complaint than full counter. Though that can apply resistance. Come to think of it. Now that I know you mainly play condi classes this might be why you were saying they were always invulnerable. Core warrior has good defense against condi too. But spellbreaker does add to it. > > When I fight spellbreakers I have the easiest time staying at range (hence Druid would be better I think). When I'm at range I don't care about full counter. The new build most run is melee oriented so I don't care much about that either. They do have gap closers, but I try to do my best to stay at max range as much as possible via kiting. I think in any game learning to kite well is one of the best skills you can have. I like to stay near objects that I can change my elevation relatively easily. Use hunters arrow to stealth out and reposition. Knock back with longbow 4 if they get too close. Pay attention to their use of shield and full counter to not waste rapid fire. > > I try to make it a battle of attrition rather than a battle of brute strength. If you do the latter they will win because you play to their strengths. They want you to come at them full force. But if you are plinking at them and kiting them they will have to use their defenses anyway and won't be getting bursts off on you. Then you can kill them. > > Won't work every time. But that's what I have found to be helpful. I also try not to fight anyone alone if I don't have too. I like to plus 1 and outnumber if I can. No matter the class I'm on or the class I'm fighting. > > Honestly just takes a lot of practice and a lot of paying attention to what they are doing. That's why I usually default to learn to play. It's more snarky than I want it to be but easier to type on a phone. It's really meant to be pay as much attention to the enemy as possible and learn from each encounter. That's why I think all the nerf this nerf that buff this buff that threads after two weeks are kinda ridiculous. > > Spellbreaker may need a nerf. Scourge may need a nerf. But I think it should be after people adapt and learn. Then true outliers will be identified rather than the need for adaptation. Awesome man, thank you for this outstanding input! When i started playing druid i've always opened my combos with LB4. Most of the times i've got frustrated, 'cos of Aegis on guardians ie. Now that i know a bit of other classes and i'm playing less "panicked" i'm being really sucessful, opening with pet pressure and LB auto attack, using LB3 for stealth and repositioning, using GS4 for blocks, GS5 to guarantee a GS2 landing + daze glyph, quickening zephyr and a chain of auto attack, that way transfering the panick to my adversary, hehe. This is the statement that should be on a wall on the Heart of the Mists: "pay as much attention to the enemy as possible and learn from each encounter.". I'm improving my plays a lot studying my adversary. As i said i'm not spamming my key skills anymore, i'm spending them when i'm almost sure they'll land on the target. Problem is this window is too short with spellbreakers. I simply can't hit them and i feel that they're always "invul". Problem with scourges is that i can't melee them with my DH (and i need to melee to do damage at all). As a Burn DH, if i can't melee them with all my defenses i'll think something is wrong too. Specially if i can't melee a light armor class when i'm a heavy armor class, you know? "Spellbreaker may need a nerf. Scourge may need a nerf. But I think it should be after people adapt and learn." -> I think that is exactly what Anet is doing. Problem is we don't get a single word from them on this matter. On the other hand i can understand them from the point that if they give some statement now they can be drowned to death in this sea of salt. Let's wait and see what happens! Thanks again for the constructivism! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majirah.5089 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > @Majirah.5089 said: > > > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > > > @Majirah.5089 said: > > > > > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > > > > > @Majirah.5089 said: > > > > > > > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > > > > > > So, i'm really new to pvp but now that i understand the mechanics of it, my skills, other classes skills, when to block, when to disengage a lost fight, etc, i'm being considerably sucessfull. > > > > > > > Fact is, you don't need to be a pro to know that Scourges and Spellbreakers are, hm, broken. The Spellbreakers, in my opinion, is the worst of all. What i'm missing? These guys are invul all the time, can't even hit them, seriously. The Scourges are, as stated above, "slow-ish moving nuclear warhead", but they can be harmed. Problem is i can't stand on a point with them with my guardian, what i suppose wasn't meant to happen, right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the first part of your first sentence said it all. You are new to pvp. You don't know enough to call them broken. Invulnerable all the time? Can't even hit them? Hyperbole much? That or severe learn to play. Or both. > > > > > > > > > > Ok, clearly a Spellbreaker player (not a single word about Scourge). > > > > > I'm being honest when i tell that i'm new to pvp, but still, the second part of my sentence states that i'm not hitting random buttons and hoping for the best (what i know happens a lot in spvp). You attacked me and not a single word about the fact: Spellbreakers. > > > > > Let the salt aside and tell me, if Spellbreaker isn't broken, how to counter it? Whats yours flaws? Things like this should happen? Look how this guy is being bombed by 5 ppl, dont even bother with positioning, dont even need to use his heal skill for the entire fight! If was monkeys behind the keyboard on the other side against any other class this guy would be dead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't attack. I called out the hyberbole or lack of knowledge of class mechanics that was obvious in your post. > > > > > > > > I do indeed play spellbreaker and other warrior specializations. But I also play all the other professions with the exception of Mesmer. I've only played Mesmer a few times. I have played thief and ranger 10 times more than warrior. I have played guardian probably 5 times more than warrior. I have played engineer slightly more than warrior. I have played warrior and necro about equally with the edge going slightly to necro. The only ones that I have played less than warrior are ele, revenant, and Mesmer. > > > > > > > > The reasons I do my best to play all professions is to understand them and counter them. This is the reason that I think mesmers are the most op class. It's because I don't understand them or how to counter them. How can I since I have only played like 15 matches with them? I can't. It would be unreasonable for me to complain about them with my lack of knowledge about them because any issue I have with them is surely learn to play. > > > > > > > > There have been several threads on spellbreaker and scourges. Most people complaining about spellbreaker a have an issue with full counter. In pretty much every thread their have been explanations as to how to counter it. People just refuse the obvious answers and instead post videos of bads getting blown up as proof of a certain class or mechanic being op. Then say where are the answers? They are all over the place on the forums. > > > > > > > > People say learn to play a lot because honestly in most cases most forum QQ comes down to learn to play. The expansion has been out for a couple weeks. People are still learning, but they are learning. I have had full counter be countered more and more often with the passing days. I have seen people run out of sand shades more and more often. There may be some tweaks that happen, but honestly more learn to play needs to happen first. > > > > > > Great, thanks. Seems like we're having a productive debate now. > > > Yes, i lack knowledge of Warriors builds in general, but i'm with you when you say "...full counter be countered more and more often with the passing days.". First time i got ganked by full counter i've finished the match and came to YT to understand what tha hell was that. That being understood, just dont attack when the animation pops, no problems. The problem is that this animation pops every 8 seconds. When its not up you still can use shield stance from time to time if things gets nasty. What about the traits? Shield master for example. (And i just came from metabattle where i've got this infos now). > > > > > > I'm assuming you don't think Spellbreakers need a nerf. So, i'm asking for an advice from a more experienced player on how to play against spellbreakers the way it is now. I play a Burn DH, a Power Druid and a Condi Reaper. > > > > Yeah sorry I can come off as abrasive. Sometimes it's on purpose. Sometimes it's not. Honestly I'm not the most experienced player, but I have learned a ton in the past year by playing the different specs. > > > > One thing: with warriors in general you are going to have a hard time with your burn guardian. Warriors have good access to resistance and condi cleanse with various traits or skills so they can nullify your damage with that. It is a hard counter and their isn't much you can do about that. It would help if burn guardian had more than one condition that does damage, but it's all burn. It's great when people don't have condi cleanse or resistance though, but the higher up you go the more condi counter you will see. > > > > Condi reaper isn't as bad because it has more damaging conditions so cleanses aren't as effective (depending on the cleanse), but it is still susceptible to resistance. I honestly try to stick with teammates and stay at range as much as possible. Same goes for encounters with guardians engineers and what not. > > > > I think out of the three you would have the easiest time on Druid. From my experience anyway. Condi classes are kinda screwed if the warrior takes too much resistance and cleanses. I always look at the start of every match. Is their a necro? If so I'm taking my resistance skills. Druid on the other hand I just kite and attack with bow and pet. Much easier fight in my opinion. > > > > For guardian you can try the meditrapper build. Power based build might have more luck than relying on burn when warriors have resistance. > > > > I've seen a few people complaining about resistance. I think that is a much more legitimate complaint than full counter. Though that can apply resistance. Come to think of it. Now that I know you mainly play condi classes this might be why you were saying they were always invulnerable. Core warrior has good defense against condi too. But spellbreaker does add to it. > > > > When I fight spellbreakers I have the easiest time staying at range (hence Druid would be better I think). When I'm at range I don't care about full counter. The new build most run is melee oriented so I don't care much about that either. They do have gap closers, but I try to do my best to stay at max range as much as possible via kiting. I think in any game learning to kite well is one of the best skills you can have. I like to stay near objects that I can change my elevation relatively easily. Use hunters arrow to stealth out and reposition. Knock back with longbow 4 if they get too close. Pay attention to their use of shield and full counter to not waste rapid fire. > > > > I try to make it a battle of attrition rather than a battle of brute strength. If you do the latter they will win because you play to their strengths. They want you to come at them full force. But if you are plinking at them and kiting them they will have to use their defenses anyway and won't be getting bursts off on you. Then you can kill them. > > > > Won't work every time. But that's what I have found to be helpful. I also try not to fight anyone alone if I don't have too. I like to plus 1 and outnumber if I can. No matter the class I'm on or the class I'm fighting. > > > > Honestly just takes a lot of practice and a lot of paying attention to what they are doing. That's why I usually default to learn to play. It's more snarky than I want it to be but easier to type on a phone. It's really meant to be pay as much attention to the enemy as possible and learn from each encounter. That's why I think all the nerf this nerf that buff this buff that threads after two weeks are kinda ridiculous. > > > > Spellbreaker may need a nerf. Scourge may need a nerf. But I think it should be after people adapt and learn. Then true outliers will be identified rather than the need for adaptation. > > Awesome man, thank you for this outstanding input! > When i started playing druid i've always opened my combos with LB4. Most of the times i've got frustrated, 'cos of Aegis on guardians ie. Now that i know a bit of other classes and i'm playing less "panicked" i'm being really sucessful, opening with pet pressure and LB auto attack, using LB3 for stealth and repositioning, using GS4 for blocks, GS5 to guarantee a GS2 landing + daze glyph, quickening zephyr and a chain of auto attack, that way transfering the panick to my adversary, hehe. > > This is the statement that should be on a wall on the Heart of the Mists: "pay as much attention to the enemy as possible and learn from each encounter.". I'm improving my plays a lot studying my adversary. As i said i'm not spamming my key skills anymore, i'm spending them when i'm almost sure they'll land on the target. Problem is this window is too short with spellbreakers. I simply can't hit them and i feel that they're always "invul". > > Problem with scourges is that i can't melee them with my DH (and i need to melee to do damage at all). As a Burn DH, if i can't melee them with all my defenses i'll think something is wrong too. Specially if i can't melee a light armor class when i'm a heavy armor class, you know? > > "Spellbreaker may need a nerf. Scourge may need a nerf. But I think it should be after people adapt and learn." -> I think that is exactly what Anet is doing. Problem is we don't get a single word from them on this matter. On the other hand i can understand them from the point that if they give some statement now they can be drowned to death in this sea of salt. > > Let's wait and see what happens! Thanks again for the constructivism! Yeah no problem. I know it can be frustrating especially starting out. When I first started I thought everything was op. Theives would blow me up from out of nowhere. Necros would have a trillion lives. Guardians would just stand their and laugh as their traps obliterated me. Warriors really did seem like the were invulnerable all the time. Engineers always seemed to reflect all my damage back at me. Elementalists would never die. Etc. I still sometimes feel like that with Mesmer, but I know I just need to bring myself to play it more. So I do understand. I should have started with that. I think both scourge and spellbreaker will seem a lot less op once people adapt more. Then anet will take care of any necessary changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menzies The Heretic.3415 Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 https://clips.twitch.tv/RockyVivaciousSnakeDxAbomb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malafaia.8903 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @"Menzies The Heretic.3415" said: > https://clips.twitch.tv/RockyVivaciousSnakeDxAbomb LOL, I don't think people will use the argument of "bad player" on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiritodatrth.1548 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 I can argue that, well not that hes bad, but that he made a mistake yes... he stayed and he knows he stayed in the condi bomb... and he did the same at first... he applied his condi that let necro at 1 %, then necro healed, used the elite and f5, he kept over the area... and used the burst and he stayed in the burst... he could simply waited and got the same combo in the necro without the heal and without plague sign, but I agree that the necro had to play 5 keays, while he had to play 7... a substantial amount of 33% more keys to get in same place.... I'm sorry but necro has been sufering from this kind of same issues that yoy now have with necro for at least 7 years... Let's see.... DH, Mesmer,Thief, War... so now we need to come back to garbage otherwise no one will be happy... All these specs are broken is not only scourge and spellbreaker... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapasmurf.5623 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 I can say that spellbreaker could use a balance. When I can go full DPS and 2v1/3v1 people like its ez pz (which I have done), something needs a bit of a balance. Few days ago when I was trying spellbreaker (and a build i made) I 3v1'd a scourge, DH and a berserker. I felt immortal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowlights.7021 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > @Majirah.5089 said: > > > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > > So, i'm really new to pvp but now that i understand the mechanics of it, my skills, other classes skills, when to block, when to disengage a lost fight, etc, i'm being considerably sucessfull. > > > Fact is, you don't need to be a pro to know that Scourges and Spellbreakers are, hm, broken. The Spellbreakers, in my opinion, is the worst of all. What i'm missing? These guys are invul all the time, can't even hit them, seriously. The Scourges are, as stated above, "slow-ish moving nuclear warhead", but they can be harmed. Problem is i can't stand on a point with them with my guardian, what i suppose wasn't meant to happen, right? > > > > > > > I think the first part of your first sentence said it all. You are new to pvp. You don't know enough to call them broken. Invulnerable all the time? Can't even hit them? Hyperbole much? That or severe learn to play. Or both. > > Ok, clearly a Spellbreaker player (not a single word about Scourge). > I'm being honest when i tell that i'm new to pvp, but still, the second part of my sentence states that i'm not hitting random buttons and hoping for the best (what i know happens a lot in spvp). You attacked me and not a single word about the fact: Spellbreakers. > Let the salt aside and tell me, if Spellbreaker isn't broken, how to counter it? Whats yours flaws? Things like this should happen? Look how this guy is being bombed by 5 ppl, dont even bother with positioning, dont even need to use his heal skill for the entire fight! If was monkeys behind the keyboard on the other side against any other class this guy would be dead. > > "am i fighting bots, whats happening" like, sb is op, but this is a really bad example of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Crinn.7864 said: > > @bluri.2653 said: > > > @"Reaper Alim.4176" said: > > > > @bluri.2653 said: > > > > dw scourge and sb surely gets nerfed. I just hope they tweak it lower slowly and not start with like lets nerf something by 50% > > > > > > We all now scourge and spellbreaker are getting removed from the game. I'm just saying is why Chronomancer and Daredevil didn't get this same treatment. Daredevil only got nerfed, it because it solo'd a PvE raid boss. And ANet did a emergency nerf on that class in no time flat. Yet those two specs are sooo over tuned that before scourge and spellbreaker came along it was mandatory to have them in order to climb. > > > > > > I'm just pointing out the mentality you guys have. "Only my class is allowed to be brokenly over tuned and everyone else should have to build around me." Type attitude. > > > > > > Can Soulbeast, Weaver, and Renegade also gets specs that are just as brokenly over tuned as Chronomancer and Daredevil are? Or are well just going to be fine with DD and Chrono being the only broken specs allowed? > > > > > > I can tell ur not experienced in pvp. > > > > Anyway just to give u a reply > > > > 1. Chrono is not even close to what it was a year ago, look at the tournament we did and my vod no mesmers was played, chrono gets negated vs sb. 1 drd played. > > 2. Thief got several endurance nerfs including PI nerfed by 15% and dont forget all sigils got revamped(good imo) > > > > So yeah u clearly have no idea what ur on about but dw ive seen u before and already know that, but i still give u a response:) > > > > I personally dont care what they do i was just stating its quite clear anet will nerf sb/scourge > > > > Only issue i have is the visual clutter from firebrand/holo/scourge > > I think you misunderstand the complaint being lodged against thieves. He isn't talking about the current meta, he is talking about how if spellbreaker and scourge get nerfed we are just going to go back to the pre-PoF meta of "why would you ever bother playing anything but thief/Mesmer if you want to climb in ranked" > > People are just getting really tired of having build viability always being determined by "can said build survive a d/p thief" nevermind the fact that nobody except thief can reliably kill thief. Some of us would rather have a scourge or warrior meta, becuase at least those classes are mortal. Those Nerfs to Thief/Daredevil and Mesmer/Chrono were made well before PoF Meta was ever a thing(one of those classes received large nerfs one the last 3 balances patches prior to PoF), and the two classes weren’t even close to mandatory to move up, go ahead and look at the date stamps on all those Nerfs to those two classes, and on top of those nerfs the whole sigil revamp compounded the nerfs to the classes further, but I know those pesky facts are evasive. But it’s obvious certain biases will never change even if those classes were nerfed into the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darknicrofia.2604 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @"Menzies The Heretic.3415" said: > https://clips.twitch.tv/RockyVivaciousSnakeDxAbomb maybe Helseth needs to just GIT GUD and l2adapt to the new expansion - Scourges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majirah.5089 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 > @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said: > I can say that spellbreaker could use a balance. When I can go full DPS and 2v1/3v1 people like its ez pz (which I have done), something needs a bit of a balance. > > Few days ago when I was trying spellbreaker (and a build i made) I 3v1'd a scourge, DH and a berserker. I felt immortal. I don't really think this is evidence of a class being op unless we can see how the fights went down. I have won 1v3 against as a reaper necro vs 3 thieves. That says a lot less about my necro skills and a lot more about those thieves lack of skills. I have won 1v2 and 1v3 with almost every profession (not Mesmer) in dps specs. That really just says that I was fighting less experienced players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xDudisx.5914 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 When are the nerfs coming? In a couple months after everyone has bought PoF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 > @Malafaia.8903 said: > Point is this guy can hold almost 2 minutes without taking almost no damage. > So, my question still remains: If Spellbreaker isn't broken, how to counter it? Whats this class flaws? If Spellbreaker has any one real flaw, it's that they can't really afford to run Stability in their builds making them susceptible to hard cc So you can't guarantee a stomp and other situations like that. Most are going to run Endure Pain, Berserker Stance and Featherfoot Grace. No room for Dolyak Signet or Balanced stance because the other three are essential to what it does. The only real stability is 2 seconds when they activate full counter to ensure that it goes off properly instead of getting stunned out of the counter stance. Despite running glass the damage is mediocre compared to other damage focused builds. They're also going to run pure melee by default leaving them susceptible to kiting. But that really is it. And despite not really having the biggest damage in the world, I don't think anything with this level of damage while being as resilient as Spellbreaker has ever existed in this game. While it's not too hard to kite a spellbreaker, it's very hard kill one while kiting it. You can only just occupy it for a while. If spellbreaker exists in this form it's basically going to dominate the meta so that if you aren't a scourge or spellbreaker you need to have access to a lot of boonstrip to actually get at their resistance reliably and repeatedly or get left by the wayside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exciton.8942 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 > @mortrialus.3062 said: > > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > Point is this guy can hold almost 2 minutes without taking almost no damage. > > So, my question still remains: If Spellbreaker isn't broken, how to counter it? Whats this class flaws? > > If Spellbreaker has any one real flaw, it's that they can't really afford to run Stability in their builds making them susceptible to hard cc So you can't guarantee a stomp and other situations like that. Most are going to run Endure Pain, Berserker Stance and Featherfoot Grace. No room for Dolyak Signet or Balanced stance because the other three are essential to what it does. The only real stability is 2 seconds when they activate full counter to ensure that it goes off properly instead of getting stunned out of the counter stance. Despite running glass the damage is mediocre compared to other damage focused builds. They're also going to run pure melee by default leaving them susceptible to kiting. > > But that really is it. And despite not really having the biggest damage in the world, I don't think anything with this level of damage while being as resilient as Spellbreaker has ever existed in this game. While it's not too hard to kite a spellbreaker, it's very hard kill one while kiting it. You can only just occupy it for a while. If spellbreaker exists in this form it's basically going to dominate the meta so that if you aren't a scourge or spellbreaker you need to have access to a lot of boonstrip to actually get at their resistance reliably and repeatedly or get left by the wayside. That is not true. Due to the high resistance uptime from full counter, spellbreak can run last stand instead of cleansing ire. Full counter also give stability. So stability uptime is also quite high. The build has 2 stunbreaks at 30s CD and two passive stunbreak at 40s CD and 60s CD respectively. Very few builds can resist CC as well as spellbreaker. IMHO, fixing spellbreaker is easy. They just need to remove resistance trait for full counter. Resistance is such a strong boon that shouldn't be applied on a 6.75s CD skill. It is only fine to have resistance on high CD skill like berserker stance. If warrior players think they can't handle conditions with healing signet+berserker stance+featherfoot grace+cleansing ire, then they are the ones who need to l2p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 > @Exciton.8942 said: > > @mortrialus.3062 said: > > > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > > Point is this guy can hold almost 2 minutes without taking almost no damage. > > > So, my question still remains: If Spellbreaker isn't broken, how to counter it? Whats this class flaws? > > > > If Spellbreaker has any one real flaw, it's that they can't really afford to run Stability in their builds making them susceptible to hard cc So you can't guarantee a stomp and other situations like that. Most are going to run Endure Pain, Berserker Stance and Featherfoot Grace. No room for Dolyak Signet or Balanced stance because the other three are essential to what it does. The only real stability is 2 seconds when they activate full counter to ensure that it goes off properly instead of getting stunned out of the counter stance. Despite running glass the damage is mediocre compared to other damage focused builds. They're also going to run pure melee by default leaving them susceptible to kiting. > > > > But that really is it. And despite not really having the biggest damage in the world, I don't think anything with this level of damage while being as resilient as Spellbreaker has ever existed in this game. While it's not too hard to kite a spellbreaker, it's very hard kill one while kiting it. You can only just occupy it for a while. If spellbreaker exists in this form it's basically going to dominate the meta so that if you aren't a scourge or spellbreaker you need to have access to a lot of boonstrip to actually get at their resistance reliably and repeatedly or get left by the wayside. > > That is not true. Due to the high resistance uptime from full counter, spellbreak can run last stand instead of cleansing ire. Full counter also give stability. So stability uptime is also quite high. > > The build has 2 stunbreaks at 30s CD and a passive stunbreak at 40s CD. Very few builds can resist CC as well as spellbreaker. > > IMHO, fixing spellbreaker is easy. They just need to remove resistance trait for full counter. Resistance is such a strong boon that shouldn't be applied on a 6.75s CD skill. It is only fine to have resistance on high CD skill like berserker stance. > > If warrior players think they can't handle conditions with healing signet+berserker stance+featherfoot grace+cleansing ire, then they are the ones who need to l2p. I don't think the stability with Full Counter says anything about Spellbreaker's susceptibility to cc. It's just there to ensure Full Counter's counter window doesn't get interrupted. It covers the parry stance and animation. I'm just saying that while playing Spellbreaker, the only time I felt really lacking in anything was in moments where everyone is dumping their cc all at once like when someone or multiple people go down and everything is trying to either stop a stomp or a rez. I don't think Full Counter or Revenge Counter are the problem. The problem is the ability to chain together Berserker Stance, Healing Signet and Featherfoot Grace together. The fact that between the three of them you can get something like 30 seconds of resistance not counting Revenge Counter adding stacks occasionally is kind of insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exciton.8942 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 > @mortrialus.3062 said: > > @Exciton.8942 said: > > > @mortrialus.3062 said: > > > > @Malafaia.8903 said: > > > > Point is this guy can hold almost 2 minutes without taking almost no damage. > > > > So, my question still remains: If Spellbreaker isn't broken, how to counter it? Whats this class flaws? > > > > > > If Spellbreaker has any one real flaw, it's that they can't really afford to run Stability in their builds making them susceptible to hard cc So you can't guarantee a stomp and other situations like that. Most are going to run Endure Pain, Berserker Stance and Featherfoot Grace. No room for Dolyak Signet or Balanced stance because the other three are essential to what it does. The only real stability is 2 seconds when they activate full counter to ensure that it goes off properly instead of getting stunned out of the counter stance. Despite running glass the damage is mediocre compared to other damage focused builds. They're also going to run pure melee by default leaving them susceptible to kiting. > > > > > > But that really is it. And despite not really having the biggest damage in the world, I don't think anything with this level of damage while being as resilient as Spellbreaker has ever existed in this game. While it's not too hard to kite a spellbreaker, it's very hard kill one while kiting it. You can only just occupy it for a while. If spellbreaker exists in this form it's basically going to dominate the meta so that if you aren't a scourge or spellbreaker you need to have access to a lot of boonstrip to actually get at their resistance reliably and repeatedly or get left by the wayside. > > > > That is not true. Due to the high resistance uptime from full counter, spellbreak can run last stand instead of cleansing ire. Full counter also give stability. So stability uptime is also quite high. > > > > The build has 2 stunbreaks at 30s CD and a passive stunbreak at 40s CD. Very few builds can resist CC as well as spellbreaker. > > > > IMHO, fixing spellbreaker is easy. They just need to remove resistance trait for full counter. Resistance is such a strong boon that shouldn't be applied on a 6.75s CD skill. It is only fine to have resistance on high CD skill like berserker stance. > > > > If warrior players think they can't handle conditions with healing signet+berserker stance+featherfoot grace+cleansing ire, then they are the ones who need to l2p. > > I don't think the stability with Full Counter says anything about Spellbreaker's susceptibility to cc. It's just there to ensure Full Counter's counter window doesn't get interrupted. It covers the parry stance and animation. > > I'm just saying that while playing Spellbreaker, the only time I felt really lacking in anything was in moments where everyone is dumping their cc all at once like when someone or multiple people go down and everything is trying to either stop a stomp or a rez. > > I don't think Full Counter or Revenge Counter are the problem. The problem is the ability to chain together Berserker Stance, Healing Signet and Featherfoot Grace together. The fact that between the three of them you can get something like 30 seconds of resistance not counting Revenge Counter adding stacks occasionally is kind of insane. I don't know about that. When I get CC'ed, I just stunbreak and full counter. Pretty hard to get chain CC'ed in a spellbreaker. As for resistance, core warrior has been pretty good against conditions already. So I just don't think adding more resistance on top of that is a good idea. It kinda baffles me how devs don't realize giving a class close to 100% resistance uptime all by himself is really not a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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