Upcoming Balance Notes

[eduardo.1436]

Thank you for the update.

[Melian.5368]

I don't think there were that much of an annoyance regarding condi mirages in WvW to justify these nerfs. Axe is completely gone, survivability is greatly reduced by the dodge changes, damaging ability greatly reduced by the ambush changes, even illusionary ambush is nerfed by 15 seconds.

 

Mirage is an elite specialization that YOU introduced to the game. Wouldn't it be better to try to incorporate it to this game mode instead of trying to eliminate it alltogether? How are people supposed to play roaming condi mirages anymore?

[Spike.5073]

> @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:

> We’re getting the Balance notes to you now so that you can speculate on how they will affect your gameplay.

> As a quick note: It is easy to judge a change in isolation – I ask that you consider

 

> **Mesmer**

> While we think that Signet of Inspiration's new functionality is working well

 

Background and shameless self-praise: I have ~4000 hours on Chrono (on my main account), all titles in raids and fractals, I can lowman, was in multiple guilds and am regarded as a very experienced Chrono amongst those who know me, and my opinion is generally wanted and respected by those who know me. I write this at 3 in the morning in my third language, so bear with me. It is important to me that you consider what I have to say. And I feel like I speak for a lot of experienced Chronos, some better some worse than me at the game, but they'd all have to say about the same thing if they were to visit these forums.

 

Here you have a speculation, or rather a comment not looking at this change in isolation. I know you will not talk about it, because you said so in your post. It's okay. I hope you read it and your balance team takes it into consideration.

 

You're going into the wrong direction with SoI. Due to the fact that wells pulse their boons on the last tick and how you want to go into CS during your Chrono rotations, especially at the beginning of the fight, you make rotations with Chrono extremely awkward. We have to delay a lot, and the worst thing is that we have little to no information as of how our gameplay actually influences the subsquad. This was historically always a problem with chrono, from the internal CD on distortion to the boon uptime on allies being different than the one on oneself and other things, we always had to play the UI and the log more than other classes. But the extension of boons on allies makes this worse - we play the UI more than the game.

 

I get what you are trying to do. And honestly, your changes on Tides of Time are 1:1 what I'd have done with this skill and will make Chrono a bit better to play. They are nothing short of genius (because I'd have proposed them like that? Get it? Hurrdurr)

 

But here is what I feel you don't get: People love Chrono, because it is hard and extremely rewarding to play, and because it is impactful. And because you can do fun things with it. Because the rotation and gameplay felt extremely good during distortion days. You are in the process of taking all of that away in an attempt to balance the class and push others into the meta. It won't work, there will always be a best class. Thing is, it wasn't even necessary. Back in the day, distortion was welcome, but never expected, even in high LI groups. If I missed one or two, I was happy to be told and improve here and there. Back in the day, you could've just pushed the efficiency of other classes and all would have been fine, but you dug yourself into a hole and are trying to fix this now. Let me make this perfectly clear: This isn't about distortion, it's about how distortion felt to play. Fun, difficult, rewarding, high skill ceiling. An amazing and unique gaming experience I've had nowhere before, and nowhere after. It was what made the class good, but more importantly: It was what made the class FUN. I don't want distortion for my squad back. It was never necessary, only welcome or broken for extremely high skill, niche strats. Would there have been alternatives to Chrono back in the day that had the same boon output (100% alacrity and quickness) that were easier to play, they would have seen play. I'm a hundred percent sure. Let me reiterate to make myself clear: I don't want distortion back. But I want that feel back.

 

I urge you to adjust the flow and feel of the class more.

 

People don't play Chrono for the same reason they do play it: Because it's complicated and weird and you have a lot of responsibility. I think that is fine. Offer alternatives for those who want them. Those will be played, even if they aren't as effective in other regards (CC, defensive capabilities), but easier to play and can maintain boons. But over the last year, starting with the distortion changes, you took more and more away from what actually made the class fun (not broken and overpowered, nobody cares if it got weaker!! It even didn't!) to play.

 

But please don't push into the direction where we have to play the UI so much, and have too much hidden information. The feel of the class is just as important as the balance. I don't know why things are what they are, but believe me when I say that at the moment, Chrono feels terrible, and I don't think the Tides of Time change will fix that completely. You don't have a good track record with those things (remember FA Staff Tempest?), so again, I urge you:

 

Ask players how their class feels to play and check if that aligns with your vision. You have my opinion on that now, do with it what you want.

 

Summary of what my problems are:

 

1. Boon Duration and skills are inconsistent (bd on SoI doesn't matter) and lead to weird balance issues, most of the time a nerf is an incredible buff

2. Gear change every 2nd patch is just not what I want from this game, so are (completely) new rotations every 3 months

3. You don't see what you actually do for your team with chrono enough. There is no visible reward when you aegis/distort something, you can't see the boons and impact on the overall squad performance in action.

4. Wells pulse their boons on the last tick, which means you have to wait and delay your other skills, which feels slow and clunky

5. Too much hidden information, or information that wants to hide from me! You don't actually see what SoI does, because in a squad the boons are hidden, in your bar they are small and move around, and in your party this problem just infensifies by a factor of 10 (try to move your eyes around to see if you can press SoI).

6. The mix of all of the above issues just make the class terrible to play, and no amount of fixing numbers will change that

 

 

Please develop a vision for this class and how it is meant to feel when played. Thank you.

[Sorem.9157]

@"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048"

 

I urge you to reconsider this change:

 

• Righteous Instincts: This trait's critical-chance bonus has been reduced from 50% to 25%.

 

It is the bread and butter for many Guardian builds other than the Core Guardian, which is where it is causing most trouble.

 

Harrier Firebrand viability will diminish even more after this, despite being a high skill floor build, it is constantly getting hit because of other Guardian meta builds. PvE dragonhunter also relies on this trait and despite being a strong burst option, it is what most Guardians play for PvE.

 

Again, i urge you to reconsider the nerf and try to target specifically the build that is causing trouble, which is radiance core guardian for pvp.

[Auburner.6945]

Please, 700+ replies on ele sub weren't enough?

 

Else, I appreciate the communication, hope it continues :+1:

[Willowsheart.7940]

Wow, thank you for the update. I am a little baffled by this one though .................Repeater: For builds that use a pistol in their main hand with no off-hand weapon, the damage of this skill has been increased by 20%. Striking a foe with this skill now applies 4 seconds of bleeding per hit.............................Who does not use an off hand weapon? I mean is that a thing? Or am I misunderstanding.

Truly though, thank you so very much for posting this.

[Simzani.4318]

Very weak. At this cadence we may have a balanced game in 10 years. Special mentions to these 2 joke lines :

• Sneak Attack: Increased the duration of bleeding that's applied by this skill from 4 seconds to 6 seconds.

• Repeater: For builds that use a pistol in their main hand with no off-hand weapon, the damage of this skill has been increased by 20%. Striking a foe with this skill now applies 4 seconds of bleeding per hit.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Better than expected to be honest.

 

Good changes:

Hitting most of the mesmer nerfs towards mirage and specifically mirage cloak is a step in the right direction. Chrono is still viable so Mesmers still have something to play. It's good that most of these nerfs don't hit core.

Deadeye stealth was one of those things that while not technically overpowered in sPvP was still non interactive and bad for the game. Gutting it was a wise change.

Reduction of stab on Holo is possibly the biggest thing it needed

Reduction of stances on Soulbeast to hit the boonspam said stances provide is also a good direction.

Ele might have a viable build now

 

Neutral changes:

Warrior changes I get are for PvE only, but overall a huge nothingburger for the class as far as WvW and PvP go.

Revenant. Sidegrading Targeted destruction for less burst but higher potential won't change much. As many Revs have stated, a better way to reduce burst damage without nerfing the class is to just revert sword 4 back to duelist prep. This change kind of works too but overall I don't see Revs current spot in the meta changing much at all with these.

LMAO Daredevil d/p buffed

 

Bad changes:

Core guard was honestly overnerfed and Firebrand needed no buffs. 50 to 25% is a bit much. 33% would have been less overzealous.

Most of the "bad" of this patch is what it didn't do. For instance, Fresh Reinforcement is still ridiculous. Mantra Bunk is still unkillable when played right. Renegade is still winning the prize for most neglected PoF spec.

 

 

Overall B+

[Draeyon.4392]

In regards to **Ranger spirits**,

I'll wait for the actual patch to test them but

 

they were already a meta build for healing druid in both fractals and Raids.

 

They see no use in PvP/WvW due to how easy they are to cleave/AoE down.

If you want them to be actively used in these 2 game modes, you should look at a rework similar to how you are changing gyros.

 

As a general rule, any skill type that can be negated by enemy cleave/AoE (Spirits, Minions, Turrets) fairs really poorly in PvP/WvW.

 

 

 

Also, the actual changes to **Engi gyros** look very interesting and I'm hoping that it gives scrapper a revitalization in WvW

[Kylden Ar.3724]

> @"Draeyon.4392" said:

> In regards to **Ranger spirits**,

> I'll wait for the actual patch to test them but

>

> they were already a meta build for healing druid in both fractals and Raids.

>

> They see no use in PvP/WvW due to how easy they are to cleave/AoE down.

> If you want them to be actively used in these 2 game modes, you should look at a rework similar to how you are changing gyros.

>

> As a general rule, any skill type that can be negated by enemy cleave/AoE (Spirits, Minions, Turrets) fairs really poorly in PvP/WvW.

>

>

>

> Also, the actual changes to **Engi gyros** look very interesting and I'm hoping that it gives scrapper a revitalization in WvW

 

Agree 100%.

[DiogoSilva.7089]

PvP tempest feedback:

 

**• "Wash the Pain Away!": This skill now cleanses one condition from nearby allies on its final pulse.**

Is the final pulse the weaker pulse? The one with the higher radius?

Anyways, it will definitely help to fight back condi comps. Currently, picking diamond skin or cleasing water over stone heart or powerful aura traits seems to come at a high survivability cost against direct damage or at a high support cost by making half your auras not affect your party. The free condi-clear was needed for the base build.

 

**• "Flash-Freeze!": This skill now applies 4 seconds of regeneration to nearby allies in addition to its other effects.**

Seems somewhat redudant with the regen-on-aura trait, and only appears to have meaningful impact if you sacrifice the powerful aura trait for cleansing water. That always seemed wrong to me for a build that is dedicated to aurasharing. Against heavy condi comps where you're willing to swap that trait, however, it'll still be helpful for additional condi-clearing.

 

**• "Aftershock!": This skill now applies 5 seconds of protection to nearby allies in addition to its other effects.**

Protection is tasty in tempests. Even with protect-on-aura trait, it's good to have higher prot maintenance. Should now always replace Flash-Freeze against high direct damage comps.

 

**• "Eye of the Storm!": This skill now applies 10 seconds of swiftness to nearby allies in addition to its other effects.**

I don't think more speed will make this shout more useful. Lacking an aura is what makes it undesirable for the aurasharing build.

 

**• "Rebound!": This skill now applies 5 seconds of fury to nearby allies in addition to its other effects.**

The boon is nice, but it feels a bit tacked on.

 

The idea I get from these changes is that support tempests have stronger tools against heavy condi comps and slightly stronger offensive support.

 

On a side note, I think those kind of changes suffer from "effect-creep", where Anet keeps adding new effects to skills instead of making their existing effects stronger. This kind of buffing philosophy is what slowly lead the game to end at the state where it is, where every single action does too many things at once.

Rebound! still feels like a filler elite skill that would benefit from an exciting rework. Fire shields are still too weak and there's room for further buffing them out. Aftershock! had a very specific niche or two, and now does too many different things at once. I think it would be more elegant to improve shouts without adding extra stuff to them (and the same applies to many, many other buffs Anet has done since launch), because the game has been getting very messy this way.

 

In the future, my suggestion is to swap Speedy Conduit's swiftness with Harmonious Conduit's stability. Make the swiftness-on-overload trait optional (and tied to harmonious's damage boost), and the stability effect mandatory. That single stack of stability is probably what overloads need the most in every build, and considering their long casting times, there's still plenty of time for counterplay/ 2 sources of cc to disable them.

[stone cold.8609]

Thank you for the communication! This is very much appreciated!

 

Also, THANK YOU for the gyro changes!!!

[kasoki.5180]

l have to say I am overall pleasantly surprised by most of the changes.

 

Also, huge, huge thanks on changing torch#5 on guardian finally.

 

Thx for keeping us in updated :)

 

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> Okay, we're about halfway there seeing some attempts of reverting to normalcy after the PoF powercreep despite soulbeast and holo still being massively overtuned. Silent Scope nerfs are good, but DE still camps stealth via D/P to abuse the busted MBS damage, and TRB spamming is about all rifle can do now. But baby steps I guess.

>

> But...

>

> >Repeater: For builds that use a pistol in their main hand with no off-hand weapon, the damage of this skill has been increased by 20%. Striking a foe with this skill now applies 4 seconds of bleeding per hit.

>

> You guys really hate power D/D thief that much to apparently buff Pistol/Nothing before making power D/D usable in the PvP modes?

 

It's to make RP builds viable in PvE. He said to look at the whole of Tyria with these changes!

 

D:

[thepinguins.7301]

Those changes to Signet of Ether and Danger Time pretty much gutted Power Chrono... I really don't understand what you guys have against chronos, the moment they do something well, they get gutted. Yes I'm aware the Signet of Ether thing was a bug, but hey, when running imrpoved alacrity, Power Chrono did as much damage as other power classes.

 

There goes the one build I enjoyed

[ZerotheFang.5890]

i am kinda happy that warriors can only pick up their banners i had such a time in raids/fractals when i have to pick something up to end up being a banner for some reason cause i was in range it was kinda annoying. rest of changes i think are very good for each class and will be fun to see some builds looking forward to playing scrapper/reaper again.

[XxsdgxX.8109]

Hey this is actually very interesting , finally taking leaps with the balance of the game. It has been so stale for a long time now, specially in PvE since HoT.

Thank you Systems Team, really looking forward for this next patch day.

 

Nice communication too I have to say

[Tinnel.4369]

I'll read the patch notes in a minute. good or bad I wanted to comment that this pre release of them is a good thing and is welcome going forward.

 

Thanks!

[CombatEvolve.9238]

When can we expect this patch to hit then? Are we still expecting March 5th to be the patch date, or later than that?

 

Edit: To add onto something, Chrono should get pulsing boon wells, just like other wells are pulsing based (Necros , new gyros)

[Okami Amaterasu.9237]

I think this is a pretty nice patch in my opinion. I like the boons added to Tempest's Shouts. I love the changes to Scrapper's Gyros - that they follow you And also provide more Combo Fields, which will be very funny to see alongside using the Bomb Kit and Mortar Kit. The Mirage Cloak reduction is very much appreciated and I'll see how it works out before rushing to ask for more nerfs to Mirage. Changes to Scourge in WvW sound great so far. I can't tell or not if BoonBeast will be nerfed with this patch, but any changes to AI are very nice (Gyros, Spirits, Banners sort of). No buffs to Renegade's defence but Searing Fissure's changes sound nice so it's a little less AoE all around. Silent Scope stealth uptime nerf is well-needed and appreciated. The Warrior's Banners changes also sound interesting, though I think GS is still too common as the go-to weapon for Every Warrior build in PvP these days. All in all, these changes are interesting and I'm looking forward to trying them out!

[XenoSpyro.1780]

> @"Shala.8352" said:

> The changes on banners look very interesting.

This. If this allows them to be dropped more often, honestly all of them needs to cause a bit of AOE damage.

 

> @"Cragga the Eighty Third.6015" said:

> I can't tell you how grateful I will be not to accidentally be picking up those kitten banners every time I am trying to rez someone

Welcome to the turret life.

 

 

[Krieger.4712]

I hope this isn't *all* you have planned for Warrior, because it looks like you're ignoring power Berserker **AGAIN** . Every balance patch I hope we get a bone thrown our way and every balance patch it's either nothing or an outright nerf. It's been years guys c'mon.

[Dixie Cougar.2415]

> @"Krieger.4712" said:

> I hope this isn't *all* you have planned for Warrior, because it looks like you're ignoring power Berserker **AGAIN** . Every balance patch I hope we get a bone thrown our way and every balance patch it's either nothing or an outright nerf. It's been years guys c'mon.

 

I used to be a power berserker main. That's what actually got me back into gw2 after a hiatus. Got my first raid kills as one too.

Then I went to druid only to see it nerfed, then chrono...

I know this is sort of a classic mmo trope but dang. Not everyone wants/has time to be a 9 class multi relearning new builds every month.

Chrono is especially weird right now. As someone said a few posts up, it would be nice to see a coherent vision for the class that doesn't seem like nerfing it into the ground or forcing chrono players to rebuild constantly. It is hard to play, it should be OP (at least in PvE) in the hands of a skilled player.

[DarkEagle.7381]

So, they nerf Condi Renegade in Raids but leave Mirage alone? Mirage pulls over 40k DPS on Cairn and SH and is oppressively strong on Largos, Cairn, SH, Matthias but they nerf Renegade instead of nerfing Mirage? It's like Anet doesn't even play this game.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

Now this feels different already.. a early heads up on balance changes and allowing the time to theorycraft and feedback before things go live.. we might not like everything within this balance pass perhaps, but it sure is good to see something put out and offered for discussion.

I for one give this a thumbs up considering all that's happened this past week, much appreciated..