Engie balance patch notes preview - gyros get reworked

[Hoodie.1045]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> Finally gyros are worth using. Removing the AI was a long-requested feature, and it looks like they listened on that. Now the question is if scrapper has enough tankiness/damage output to hold its own in pvp still against the likes of condi mirage.

 

I can guarantee you that. With Purge Gyro creating a light field that follows you, spamming Electro-whirl can cleanse more conditions while being able to deal a decent amount of damage to condition mirage. If you want even more cleansing, there's always the Elixir Gun.

[Tsan.6431]

> @"shortcake.8659" said:

> so bulwark gyro turns from an incredibly powerful group damage mitigation tool into a suicide button. got it. thanks team.

>

> maybe i'll actually use some of the other non-elite gyros now though.

 

I test a build based upon "Sanctuary rune" and i need to be damaged to trigger heal. Without : no barrier and no avantage. I will test this option especially if i'm in a group.

[hugo.4705]

I'm an holo main, and I'm happy about those changes, finally I would be able to play scrapper again, and surely stronger than ever, very promising notes.

[Slugonaut.9841]

@"shortcake.8659" Bulwark gyro damage reduction was already multiplicative so if you already had prot at most it was giving you maybe another 9% damage reduction. Saying its a suicide button is premature, we don't know how much damage will be redirected and with it proccing barrier on top of adaptive armor it could be a good soak. If you really want to delve into the unknown and speculate that bulwark will now redirect tons of damage to the Scrapper then take AED and you just saved your team from a death bomb ;)

[eduardo.1436]

I personally would've wanted them to be signets (only problem would be stealth gyro), but this is a good and interesting change. Excited for Tuesday :tongue:

[Tinnel.4369]

Are the gyros visible still? If so the new sneak gyro isn't all that nifty for the scrapper. At least before you didn't know where the scrapper or group was for sure. If it's visible and pasted right on you now.......

[cgMatt.5162]

Gyros reclassified as Wells so people are probably going to think about Chronomancer Runes or some quickness/might stacking build with Blast Gyro. Tools or Inventions (for Anticorrosion Plating) would be really good with the pulsing prot from Medic Gyro F1.

[shortcake.8659]

> @"Slugonaut.9841" said:

> @"shortcake.8659" Bulwark gyro damage reduction was already multiplicative so if you already had prot at most it was giving you maybe another 9% damage reduction. Saying its a suicide button is premature, we don't know how much damage will be redirected and with it proccing barrier on top of adaptive armor it could be a good soak. If you really want to delve into the unknown and speculate that bulwark will now redirect tons of damage to the Scrapper then take AED and you just saved your team from a death bomb ;)

 

That's a big if. Boons get stripped often and protection can be removed or have its application blocked. The bulwark gyro buff cannot. It was great on-demand damage reduction, even if only for a few seconds, it could absorb a lot of incoming damage on both you and teammates. It could be better than it sounds, but we'd have to see the numbers to really judge. The AED is an crafty idea, but as someone who usually plays scrapper for support, giving up the Med kit is too much.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> Are the gyros visible still? If so the new sneak gyro isn't all that nifty for the scrapper. At least before you didn't know where the scrapper or group was for sure. If it's visible and pasted right on you now.......

That's actually not the worry. If I was Anet, I would just do it like the function gyro, ie you can get a halo of gyros around your head when they are active. This would make them much lets noticable than the current huge chonks. Not 100% stealth, but easily missed. That is pure conjecture though, I have no idea how they've done it. I doubt it will be anything like the current ones. What are you going to to when popping several, stack them on top of each other in the same position?

 

But what does worry is the fact that *a smoke field is generally not invisible to the enemy*. Just look at the thief, when they go to pop smoke and leap through it you see it. So yeah you will **kind of notice** a red ringed smoke field is running towards you. It's "stealth" on the level of ele mist form being stealth.

 

I say generally because I'm hoping this smoke field is. Otherwise stealth gyro will be utterly worthless except when it's over and you have the residiual stealth.

[Slugonaut.9841]

@"Dawdler.8521" I'm guessing these Gyro "wells" will probably have much shorter duration than the actual Gyro durations in game now. Thinking probably more along the lines of Necro wells (5 seconds or so). So in that case Sneak Gyro could be great for team stealth to blast the smoke field on top of the pulses without worrying about a long lingering smokefield duration following you around. At least in theory, that's how im thinking these Wells will work.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Slugonaut.9841" said:

> @"Dawdler.8521" I'm guessing these Gyro "wells" will probably have much shorter duration than the actual Gyro durations in game now. Thinking probably more along the lines of Necro wells (5 seconds or so). So in that case Sneak Gyro could be great for team stealth to blast the smoke field on top of the pulses without worrying about a long lingering smokefield duration following you around. At least in theory, that's how im thinking these Wells will work.

Only problem is, that would make it suck in solo play, especially if your spec doesnt have that many blast finishers.

 

My worst fear is that they will indeed "fix" the gyros like most of us wanted... and then something like this will totally ruin it.

[Slugonaut.9841]

@"Dawdler.8521" Eh I don't know, I mean im assuming you're talking about solo roaming on Scrapper in that situation. You can still rocket charge for more stealth and/or rocket boot, healing turret blast the field as well. We do have a lot of blasts as Engi. If you are solo roaming on Scrapper then you're most likely running a more damage oriented setup and not a support scrapper so you will need to have something like rocket boots to disengage etc. But that's just my angle on it I guess.

[Sarrs.4831]

I'm really excited for the new gyros. The only change that I'm not too fond of is the Blast Gyro change because I like the flavor of the Blast Gyro, but in practice it never really worked out.

 

On the other hand Shredder Gyro will be amazing. And it'll actually scale with your stats! Woohoo.

[Dediggefedde.4961]

> @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> Clean ALL the conditions!!!

 

if you do things right on a healscrapper (+althruism rune), you get up to 4 cleanses per second constantly.

With conversion holo (+antitoxin) you got up to 9 cleanses per second on average.

The original purge gyro was really bad at cleansing, though. if now it's something like 1-2 group cleanse per 1-3 seconds it would be awesome. ^^

 

How do you think will healscrapper develop?

* Bulwark-gyro is a bit of a problem with you taking the damage for its full duration, probably not evadable and blockable (and also scales with their toughness instead of yours). On the other side, the barrier might mitigate the damage somewhat and the lightning-field is interesting for hammer-3 and when having a daredevil in your party... all his dodges will stun, while you take damage inflicted on him.

* I don't see much use for shredder, but blast might be interesting for zerg support if might generation is comparable to herold output.

* purge seems to be a nice addition to make the healscrapper more into a boon-well

* medic-F1 gives protection + moving water, medic-gyro heal + moving water... I still don't think its better than medikit, unless they double the healing output...

* sneak is interesting. I'm fine with an invisible 10s smoke field moving with you... 30s of moving smoke field seems to be too strong to me... visible smoke-field that attacks and reveals seem to be pretty useless to me.

* for shocking speed to be used effectively, I would use two gyros, maybe purge & bulwark

 

Do you think with blast & shredder there will be offensive zerg scrappers again?

[DanAlcedo.3281]

> @"Dediggefedde.4961" said:

> > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> > Clean ALL the conditions!!!

>

> if you do things right on a healscrapper (+althruism rune), you get up to 4 cleanses per second constantly.

> With conversion holo (+antitoxin) you got up to 9 cleanses per second on average.

> The original purge gyro was really bad at cleansing, though. if now it's something like 1-2 group cleanse per 1-3 seconds it would be awesome. ^^

>

> How do you think will healscrapper develop?

> * Bulwark-gyro is a bit of a problem with you taking the damage for its full duration, probably not evadable and blockable (and also scales with their toughness instead of yours). On the other side, the barrier might mitigate the damage somewhat and the lightning-field is interesting for hammer-3 and when having a daredevil in your party... all his dodges will stun, while you take damage inflicted on him.

> * I don't see much use for shredder, but blast might be interesting for zerg support if might generation is comparable to herold output.

> * purge seems to be a nice addition to make the healscrapper more into a boon-well

> * medic-F1 gives protection + moving water, medic-gyro heal + moving water... I still don't think its better than medikit, unless they double the healing output...

> * sneak is interesting. I'm fine with an invisible 10s smoke field moving with you... 30s of moving smoke field seems to be too strong to me... visible smoke-field that attacks and reveals seem to be pretty useless to me.

> * for shocking speed to be used effectively, I would use two gyros, maybe purge & bulwark

>

> Do you think with blast & shredder there will be offensive zerg scrappers again?

 

Im not sure how i would build a Medi Scrapper after the patch.

 

Medi Pack or New Gyro Heal.

Hammer or Pistol/Shield ( For protection and blast finisher)

 

Medi Pack would give me extra condi cleanse.

And you need every blast finisher you can.

 

Maybe i would play it like this.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAqOnsTBtbBepC0ehFDjiOxf8LXc/6vBMMAuv8D-jVw2AAw+DAA-w

 

Stat wise....

 

We lost perma quickness so the only reason to take Boon Duration would be to get perma Regen for [Energy Amplifier].

Which should not be much.

 

Then as much Healpower as possible.

MAYBE! You could play Apothecary stats.

 

Would go with Anti Toxin rune and pistol.

Maybe flamethrower for an dmg option + even more blast finisher?

 

Maybe the blast gyro field has burning.

 

 

But one thing is for sure.

 

Going the Condi Cleanse niche is the goal.

WIthout perma Quickness, our raw heal per second is simply not good enough to focus on it.

 

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Sarrs.4831" said:

> I'm really excited for the new gyros. The only change that I'm not too fond of is the Blast Gyro change because I like the flavor of the Blast Gyro, but in practice it never really worked out.

>

> On the other hand Shredder Gyro will be amazing. And it'll actually scale with your stats! Woohoo.

 

Shredder gyro will likely find a place in PvE on condition engis -- the burn stacks it can put down are pretty incredible.

[JETWING.2759]

* Interesting and needed Changes on Scrapper, looks cool (but well strong)!

* Another nerf on Holo... This one looks very hard, excludes him from PvP (too many self conters: self burn, overheat...).

* Changes on CC-Storm and CC-Zephyr was very weak... Cryple? No longer 10% damage redution? ... Just increasce their range to 900 and ok, i can can use sword.

[Dediggefedde.4961]

> @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> Going the Condi Cleanse niche is the goal.

> WIthout perma Quickness, our raw heal per second is simply not good enough to focus on it.

 

Thanks for the input!

I would like to comment on your suggestions.

 

Perma quickness is nerved, but heal using superspeed using kinetic stabilizer & rapid regeneration & slickshoes wasn't really decreased by that patch.

I did some statistics over a couple of guild raids and it's still double the heal of a support-guard.

 

Boon duration is still important in my opinion for purity of purpose (must-have in any support scrapper build) and comeback cure.

After the zerg mesmer nerv healscrappers are one of the best boon sources in the zerg.

Usually I run something like minstrel & cleric for higher heal.

The exact effect is difficult to measure, though, since arcDPS boontable seems to crash in WvW fights.

 

Antitoxin doubles your cleanses during the bursts.

altruism gives roughly the same cleanse increase while it's a sustain-cleanse that gives heal power and boon duration.

Monk gives +10% heal, but I'm not sure how much more regeneration the additional cleanse gives.

So, personally, I prefer altruism.

 

Your idea about going towards condition damage is also interesting.

Marshall or apothecary stats may be useful there.

However, even though the rune gives condi-damage, you are missing skills and traits to do effective condi damage.

Going to a bunker build appears to be easier from the base scrapper build, than trying to become a damage dealer.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

> @"Dediggefedde.4961" said:

> > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> > Going the Condi Cleanse niche is the goal.

> > WIthout perma Quickness, our raw heal per second is simply not good enough to focus on it.

>

> Thanks for the input!

> I would like to comment on your suggestions.

>

> Perma quickness is nerved, but heal using superspeed using kinetic stabilizer & rapid regeneration & slickshoes wasn't really decreased by that patch.

> I did some statistics over a couple of guild raids and it's still double the heal of a support-guard.

>

> Boon duration is still important in my opinion for purity of purpose (must-have in any support scrapper build) and comeback cure.

> After the zerg mesmer nerv healscrappers are one of the best boon sources in the zerg.

> Usually I run something like minstrel & cleric for higher heal.

> The exact effect is difficult to measure, though, since arcDPS boontable seems to crash in WvW fights.

>

> Antitoxin doubles your cleanses during the bursts.

> altruism gives roughly the same cleanse increase while it's a sustain-cleanse that gives heal power and boon duration.

> Monk gives +10% heal, but I'm not sure how much more regeneration the additional cleanse gives.

> So, personally, I prefer altruism.

>

> Your idea about going towards condition damage is also interesting.

> Marshall or apothecary stats may be useful there.

> However, even though the rune gives condi-damage, you are missing skills and traits to do effective condi damage.

> Going to a bunker build appears to be easier from the base scrapper build, than trying to become a damage dealer.

 

I think 20-30% Boon Duration should be ok and easy to do, but i would not go crazy with it.

 

I never tried altruism in Zerging, i should check it out.

 

For the stat idea, its just a thought that came to mind.

 

 

All in all i would probably play a Mintrel/Magi/Cleric mix with Anti Toxin rune.

 

I dont see a reason to play Rifle or Hammer, now that Blast Finisher are worth even more.

The Blast Finisher on Shield and the fact we get the Shield Trait for free, makes Shield the best choice in my oppinion.

 

Some people think about the new Elite Gyro but i think Mortar is still better. Also extra Blast Finisher on F5.

 

 

Edit:

 

Here: Almost 2k Healpower infight and over 40% Boon Duration with nearly no Mintrel Gear.

 

Flamethrower for the buffed 2. Blast finisher with 6 sec cd.

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAqensTBtbh1aBepC0ehFDjKMAuv8Tc/6v/jOxf8LH-j1RDQBsUJImU/BAnAghpkTePAQPgEVO4s9HCAcA8e3Dg3f/93f/96+7v/+7v/+7v/epA8bkF-w

 

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"JETWING.2759" said:

> * Another nerf on Holo... This one looks very hard, excludes him from PvP (too many self conters: self burn, overheat...).

 

Actually, the nerf on holo stability won't affect too much. It just means you'll have a smaller grace period before you can be CC'ed. This does very little to hurt [protection holo](https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Holosmith_-_Protection_Holo "protection holo") builds, and it may only be problematic for the [static discharge spikers](https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Holosmith_-_Gadget_Holo "static discharge spikers") (which I'm fine with, btw).

[Tman.6349]

What would happen if you popped AED and then Bulwark? Plenty of people know not to attack the AED Engi but this sounds fun with the barrier and Marauder. Hehe. Save your team up to 50k damage. Sounds like a fun pvp shenanigans. Where does Elixir S fit in here? Hi mid-fight /wave

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Tman.6349" said:

> What would happen if you popped AED and then Bulwark? Plenty of people know not to attack the AED Engi but this sounds fun with the barrier and Marauder. Hehe. Save your team up to 50k damage. Sounds like a fun pvp shenanigans.

In a WvW zerg fight, that would just mean you die twice.

 

 

[Tman.6349]

The entire game isn't wvw . This is Engi subforum...maybe you click wrong. I specifically refer to pvp in that quote. Good point though. I never thought of that.

Also, you wouldn't pop it and then stand there and that's the end. Maybe you would idk, but I wasn't referring to w/e vacuum of rules that you're suggesting.

[Aracz.4702]

I hope that unique mechanics, barrier and pulsing might will give Scrapper possibility to became real support for PvE. Currently in end-game group PvE content scrapper can be weak DPS or overhealing healer. But with those changes, it might became really good, especially for teams who like to take a lot of damage/have dpsers with low hp

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

This may get me to try Scrapper again (Mained it for a while..had a reaaaally strong gyro build that relied on the time when gyro's stunned/dazed when destroyed...RIP BBB build). Been trying off and on to find a build I liked.....this may or may not do it so hope it will.