Daniel Handler.4816 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 > Sand Squall: The increased boon duration that this skill grants has been increased from 2 seconds to 3 seconds. The number of allies this affects has been increased from 5 to 10. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Squall https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Imbued_Melodies edit: We have to spend two trait lines to use SOI 3.6s faster than the tempest equivalent. We can add on mimic and CS for superiority but dps tempest wastes nothing, the warhorn was already meta, they keep their bar full of conjures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Safandula.8723 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 i guess its good? so u can have comp, where u dont need soi, and can take some other utilities/ dps options Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyroatheist.9031 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 While I'm not a fan of these changes, what you have here is not accurate. The change will bring SoI down to a 20s base cooldown, or 13.2 seconds with permanent alacrity and improved alacrity. This means that you can use the skill twice every 26.4 seconds. Therefor, the Mesmer version, while requiring the trait in inspiration, is notably better before considering CS or mimic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Handler.4816 Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share Posted February 28, 2019 > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > While I'm not a fan of these changes, what you have here is not accurate. The change will bring SoI down to a 20s base cooldown, or 13.2 seconds with permanent alacrity and improved alacrity. This means that you can use the skill twice every 26.4 seconds. > > Therefor, the Mesmer version, while requiring the trait in inspiration, is notably better before considering CS or mimic. You're right, I missed that. Still, I wouldn't consider this noticeably better. Power tempest loses basically nothing to come within 3.6s of our two traitline baseline. They use warhorn anyway and they keep all of their utility slots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyroatheist.9031 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > While I'm not a fan of these changes, what you have here is not accurate. The change will bring SoI down to a 20s base cooldown, or 13.2 seconds with permanent alacrity and improved alacrity. This means that you can use the skill twice every 26.4 seconds. > > > > Therefor, the Mesmer version, while requiring the trait in inspiration, is notably better before considering CS or mimic. > > You're right, I missed that. Still, I wouldn't consider this noticeably better. Power tempest loses basically nothing to come within 3.6s of our two traitline baseline. They use warhorn anyway and they keep all of their utility slots. > Sure, it's not a drastically more powerful setup, especially considering how little the tempest has to sacrifice for it. I just wanted to make sure you're working from a good starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zencow.3651 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > > While I'm not a fan of these changes, what you have here is not accurate. The change will bring SoI down to a 20s base cooldown, or 13.2 seconds with permanent alacrity and improved alacrity. This means that you can use the skill twice every 26.4 seconds. > > > > > > Therefor, the Mesmer version, while requiring the trait in inspiration, is notably better before considering CS or mimic. > > > > You're right, I missed that. Still, I wouldn't consider this noticeably better. Power tempest loses basically nothing to come within 3.6s of our two traitline baseline. They use warhorn anyway and they keep all of their utility slots. > > > > Sure, it's not a drastically more powerful setup, especially considering how little the tempest has to sacrifice for it. I just wanted to make sure you're working from a good starting point. That's not really a fair comparison based on how the professions are balanced. Playing power tempest over weaver is already a huge DPS loss in PvE settings. Eles also have much worse flexibility in traitlines in comparison to Mesmers in terms of damage with dependency on %damage multiplier trait stacking whereas Mesmers have power high power coefficients as a base line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Handler.4816 Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share Posted February 28, 2019 > @"zencow.3651" said: > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > > > While I'm not a fan of these changes, what you have here is not accurate. The change will bring SoI down to a 20s base cooldown, or 13.2 seconds with permanent alacrity and improved alacrity. This means that you can use the skill twice every 26.4 seconds. > > > > > > > > Therefor, the Mesmer version, while requiring the trait in inspiration, is notably better before considering CS or mimic. > > > > > > You're right, I missed that. Still, I wouldn't consider this noticeably better. Power tempest loses basically nothing to come within 3.6s of our two traitline baseline. They use warhorn anyway and they keep all of their utility slots. > > > > > > > Sure, it's not a drastically more powerful setup, especially considering how little the tempest has to sacrifice for it. I just wanted to make sure you're working from a good starting point. > > That's not really a fair comparison based on how the professions are balanced. Playing power tempest over weaver is already a huge DPS loss in PvE settings. > Eles also have much worse flexibility in traitlines in comparison to Mesmers in terms of damage with dependency on %damage multiplier trait stacking whereas Mesmers have power high power coefficients as a base line. Playing support Chrono is a huge DPS loss in PvE. Even if we were allowed to run Dueling/Domination/Chrono we would still have less DPS than power tempest. Even if you gave us an extra utility slot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Handler.4816 Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share Posted February 28, 2019 > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > > While I'm not a fan of these changes, what you have here is not accurate. The change will bring SoI down to a 20s base cooldown, or 13.2 seconds with permanent alacrity and improved alacrity. This means that you can use the skill twice every 26.4 seconds. > > > > > > Therefor, the Mesmer version, while requiring the trait in inspiration, is notably better before considering CS or mimic. > > > > You're right, I missed that. Still, I wouldn't consider this noticeably better. Power tempest loses basically nothing to come within 3.6s of our two traitline baseline. They use warhorn anyway and they keep all of their utility slots. > > > > Sure, it's not a drastically more powerful setup, especially considering how little the tempest has to sacrifice for it. I just wanted to make sure you're working from a good starting point. Effectively dps tempest is better at boon increasing than support tempest or dps chrono. But support chrono is better than them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zencow.3651 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > @"zencow.3651" said: > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > > > > While I'm not a fan of these changes, what you have here is not accurate. The change will bring SoI down to a 20s base cooldown, or 13.2 seconds with permanent alacrity and improved alacrity. This means that you can use the skill twice every 26.4 seconds. > > > > > > > > > > Therefor, the Mesmer version, while requiring the trait in inspiration, is notably better before considering CS or mimic. > > > > > > > > You're right, I missed that. Still, I wouldn't consider this noticeably better. Power tempest loses basically nothing to come within 3.6s of our two traitline baseline. They use warhorn anyway and they keep all of their utility slots. > > > > > > > > > > Sure, it's not a drastically more powerful setup, especially considering how little the tempest has to sacrifice for it. I just wanted to make sure you're working from a good starting point. > > > > That's not really a fair comparison based on how the professions are balanced. Playing power tempest over weaver is already a huge DPS loss in PvE settings. > > Eles also have much worse flexibility in traitlines in comparison to Mesmers in terms of damage with dependency on %damage multiplier trait stacking whereas Mesmers have power high power coefficients as a base line. > > Playing support Chrono is a huge DPS loss in PvE. Even if we were allowed to run Dueling/Domination/Chrono we would still have less DPS than power tempest. Even if you gave us an extra utility slot. That's a fair sacrifice you make for being able to provide quickness and alacrity as it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Handler.4816 Posted March 1, 2019 Author Share Posted March 1, 2019 > @"zencow.3651" said: > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > > @"zencow.3651" said: > > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > > > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > > > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > > > > > While I'm not a fan of these changes, what you have here is not accurate. The change will bring SoI down to a 20s base cooldown, or 13.2 seconds with permanent alacrity and improved alacrity. This means that you can use the skill twice every 26.4 seconds. > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefor, the Mesmer version, while requiring the trait in inspiration, is notably better before considering CS or mimic. > > > > > > > > > > You're right, I missed that. Still, I wouldn't consider this noticeably better. Power tempest loses basically nothing to come within 3.6s of our two traitline baseline. They use warhorn anyway and they keep all of their utility slots. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, it's not a drastically more powerful setup, especially considering how little the tempest has to sacrifice for it. I just wanted to make sure you're working from a good starting point. > > > > > > That's not really a fair comparison based on how the professions are balanced. Playing power tempest over weaver is already a huge DPS loss in PvE settings. > > > Eles also have much worse flexibility in traitlines in comparison to Mesmers in terms of damage with dependency on %damage multiplier trait stacking whereas Mesmers have power high power coefficients as a base line. > > > > Playing support Chrono is a huge DPS loss in PvE. Even if we were allowed to run Dueling/Domination/Chrono we would still have less DPS than power tempest. Even if you gave us an extra utility slot. > > That's a fair sacrifice you make for being able to provide quickness and alacrity as it should be. If that were the case WvW chronos, which can't use wells, should not need a whole traitline just to target 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zencow.3651 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > @"zencow.3651" said: > > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > > > @"zencow.3651" said: > > > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > > > > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > > > > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > > > > > > While I'm not a fan of these changes, what you have here is not accurate. The change will bring SoI down to a 20s base cooldown, or 13.2 seconds with permanent alacrity and improved alacrity. This means that you can use the skill twice every 26.4 seconds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefor, the Mesmer version, while requiring the trait in inspiration, is notably better before considering CS or mimic. > > > > > > > > > > > > You're right, I missed that. Still, I wouldn't consider this noticeably better. Power tempest loses basically nothing to come within 3.6s of our two traitline baseline. They use warhorn anyway and they keep all of their utility slots. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, it's not a drastically more powerful setup, especially considering how little the tempest has to sacrifice for it. I just wanted to make sure you're working from a good starting point. > > > > > > > > That's not really a fair comparison based on how the professions are balanced. Playing power tempest over weaver is already a huge DPS loss in PvE settings. > > > > Eles also have much worse flexibility in traitlines in comparison to Mesmers in terms of damage with dependency on %damage multiplier trait stacking whereas Mesmers have power high power coefficients as a base line. > > > > > > Playing support Chrono is a huge DPS loss in PvE. Even if we were allowed to run Dueling/Domination/Chrono we would still have less DPS than power tempest. Even if you gave us an extra utility slot. > > > > That's a fair sacrifice you make for being able to provide quickness and alacrity as it should be. > > If that were the case WvW chronos, which can't use wells, should not need a whole traitline just to target 10. And why shouldn't it? If we're comparing WvW, the Tempest has to give up Staff for Warhorn which is much worse for damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Handler.4816 Posted March 1, 2019 Author Share Posted March 1, 2019 > @"zencow.3651" said: > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > > @"zencow.3651" said: > > > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > > > > @"zencow.3651" said: > > > > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > > > > > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > > > > > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said: > > > > > > > > While I'm not a fan of these changes, what you have here is not accurate. The change will bring SoI down to a 20s base cooldown, or 13.2 seconds with permanent alacrity and improved alacrity. This means that you can use the skill twice every 26.4 seconds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefor, the Mesmer version, while requiring the trait in inspiration, is notably better before considering CS or mimic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're right, I missed that. Still, I wouldn't consider this noticeably better. Power tempest loses basically nothing to come within 3.6s of our two traitline baseline. They use warhorn anyway and they keep all of their utility slots. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, it's not a drastically more powerful setup, especially considering how little the tempest has to sacrifice for it. I just wanted to make sure you're working from a good starting point. > > > > > > > > > > That's not really a fair comparison based on how the professions are balanced. Playing power tempest over weaver is already a huge DPS loss in PvE settings. > > > > > Eles also have much worse flexibility in traitlines in comparison to Mesmers in terms of damage with dependency on %damage multiplier trait stacking whereas Mesmers have power high power coefficients as a base line. > > > > > > > > Playing support Chrono is a huge DPS loss in PvE. Even if we were allowed to run Dueling/Domination/Chrono we would still have less DPS than power tempest. Even if you gave us an extra utility slot. > > > > > > That's a fair sacrifice you make for being able to provide quickness and alacrity as it should be. > > > > If that were the case WvW chronos, which can't use wells, should not need a whole traitline just to target 10. > > And why shouldn't it? > > If we're comparing WvW, the Tempest has to give up Staff for Warhorn which is much worse for damage. > > Still better than Mesmer damage in a zerg, and you get a free cast of Sand Squall through imbued melodies should you chose to keep a staff. Sure you'd have to give up aura heals but you wouldn't be losing an entire traitline and you'd keep all your utility slots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zencow.3651 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 There's several problems with that: 1. Risking your scholar uptime/life in general is something no Ele would do. 2. Boon extension is unimpressive in WvW where removes and corrupts fly around frequently. Traiting for only one relevant thing is just how balance goes and should be and Eles envy how traitline efficient Mesmers are. Inspiration at least brings incredibly relevant stuff like Medic's Feedback for reflect and faster rez and Inspiring Distortion for Aegis spam to a certain extent unlike Tempests having to waste the entire Earth line (that's probably the worst line in the game) for protection or Fire line for condi clear on auras which both have incredibly poor GM traits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 The only reason to use SoI in WvW is for invuln + "free" party aegis with inspiration traitline because extending boons except for stability & resistance is kind of pointless and trying to time for resistance is very difficult. SoI doesn't make use of concentration. Protection is stacked very high with firebrands on tome of courage , also shield skill, especially if they're minstrel Regen is stacked high with firebrands due to mace , scrappers apply it too Swiftness is 100% with heralds Might is 100% with heralds but stacks are dependent on party, so the only time SoI affects a bit is for empowers Fury is 100% with heralds Quickness requires firebrands to drop trait for extra pages and use their heal skill Alacrity requires people to run renegade realistically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now