Pwr or bunker meta

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

I don't think either is all that interesting really. I'd rather a middle-ground where nothing is too tanky, but fights aren't over in a literal _blink._

 

If I had to choose, i'd say bunker is definitely less fun to play as or against compared to burst, and it's especially less fun to watch/spectate. Poll?

 

 

 

[crepuscular.9047]

Glassy Beserker builds like Staff Ele, Power Herald works in complement to Bunkers like Trap DH, Scrapper

 

Bunker Mirage that's both High Damage and High Sustain should not exist

[LegendaVagyok.9132]

> @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:

> I don't think either is all that interesting really. I'd rather a middle-ground where nothing is too tanky, but fights aren't over in a literal _blink._

>

> If I had to choose, i'd say bunker is definitely less fun to play as or against compared to burst, and it's especially less fun to watch/spectate. Poll?

>

 

Not just less fun but discouraging people to play actively, I am not saying that bunkers are bad for the game. The only problem is that being able to hard carry just by sitting on a node which cannot be taken but with 3 guys - is just lame and doesn’t force players to use their brain....seriously if your team doesn’t have the pwr for some reason (bad matchup) or couldn’t concentrate to one node there is really nothing you can do to take it from a scrapper for example.

 

 

[LegendaVagyok.9132]

> @"crepuscular.9047" said:

> Glassy Beserker builds like Staff Ele, Power Herald works in complement to Bunkers like Trap DH, Scrapper

>

> Bunker Mirage that's both High Damage and High Sustain should not exist

 

Well I don’t know which bunker build you are referring to, but there are bunch of stuff around here with quite high sustain and huge dps - have you seen a good spellbraker lately? Ofc you would not hit under fc but try to get that node :)

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

> @"LegendaVagyok.9132" said:

> Not just less fun but discouraging people to play actively, I am not saying that bunkers are bad for the game. The only problem is that being able to hard carry just by sitting on a node which cannot be taken but with 3 guys - is just lame and doesn’t force players to use their brain....seriously if your team doesn’t have the pwr for some reason (bad matchup) or couldn’t concentrate to one node there is really nothing you can do to take it from a scrapper for example.

>

>

 

Yeah, I didn't want to mention anything specifically, but scrapper is definitely the major offender right now. Holding 3v1 or 4v1 just shouldn't be a thing. Like, at all.

To compare; a defense warrior, firebrand, tempest, or weaver are all sort of tanky, and can manage holding a point 2v1 for a while in some cases, but they're weak to quick bursts, and they won't win long drawn out fights. Scrapper just doesn't care. You fight it hopelessly waiting for a +1, and if they cap the point it's just theirs. Chronobunk all over again.

[crepuscular.9047]

> @"LegendaVagyok.9132" said:

> > @"crepuscular.9047" said:

> > Glassy Beserker builds like Staff Ele, Power Herald works in complement to Bunkers like Trap DH, Scrapper

> >

> > Bunker Mirage that's both High Damage and High Sustain should not exist

>

> Well I don’t know which bunker build you are referring to, but there are bunch of stuff around here with quite high sustain and huge dps - have you seen a good spellbraker lately? Ofc you would not hit under fc but try to get that node :)

 

nothing comes close to mirages, the major complaint people have against mirages is how much sustain it have with how fundamentally mirage cloak works

[crepuscular.9047]

> @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:

> > @"LegendaVagyok.9132" said:

> > Not just less fun but discouraging people to play actively, I am not saying that bunkers are bad for the game. The only problem is that being able to hard carry just by sitting on a node which cannot be taken but with 3 guys - is just lame and doesn’t force players to use their brain....seriously if your team doesn’t have the pwr for some reason (bad matchup) or couldn’t concentrate to one node there is really nothing you can do to take it from a scrapper for example.

> >

> >

>

> Yeah, I didn't want to mention anything specifically, but scrapper is definitely the major offender right now. Holding 3v1 or 4v1 just shouldn't be a thing. Like, at all.

> To compare; a defense warrior, firebrand, tempest, or weaver are all sort of tanky, and can manage holding a point 2v1 for a while in some cases, but they're weak to quick bursts, and they won't win long drawn out fights. Scrapper just doesn't care. You fight it hopelessly waiting for a +1, and if they cap the point it's just theirs. Chronobunk all over again.

 

those 3 or 4 players must be running some really weird builds, i've seen plenty of examples of scrappers getting destroyed 1v1

[TorQ.7041]

> @"LegendaVagyok.9132" said:

> > @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:

> > I don't think either is all that interesting really. I'd rather a middle-ground where nothing is too tanky, but fights aren't over in a literal _blink._

> >

> > If I had to choose, i'd say bunker is definitely less fun to play as or against compared to burst, and it's especially less fun to watch/spectate. Poll?

> >

>

> Not just less fun but discouraging people to play actively, I am not saying that bunkers are bad for the game. The only problem is that being able to hard carry just by sitting on a node which cannot be taken but with 3 guys - is just lame and doesn’t force players to use their brain....seriously if your team doesn’t have the pwr for some reason (bad matchup) or couldn’t concentrate to one node there is really nothing you can do to take it from a scrapper for example.

>

>

 

Scrapper is not immortal. People are just not running builds that kill it. Sic em ranger melee and any of it's variations can basically kill a scrapper in seconds. Go on ranger forums and look at the video link please.

 

A good Spell breaker warrior cc will kill a scrapper. By good I don't mean you don't just spam all skills. You wait for stab to be popped and barrier to be popped. Bulls charge, hundred blade, arching slice, sheldbash. GG scrapper.

 

Power chono also kills scrapper. Not going to list the burst. Plenty of youtube vids of it. With continuum split. U can doduble cast massive gs burst to kill scrapper through their barrier.

 

Even people in low play are stubborn af. Had a mirage fighting a scrapper for 5 mins straight did not win node. Scrapper has reflect, dome, Condi removal. It does not die to mirage.

 

Burst dmg and cc kills scrapper. Learn it.

 

Just sick of people who bash into a scrapper with a build not made for it then crying

[Ralkuth.1456]

> @"TorQ.7041" said:

>

> Scrapper is not immortal. People are just not running builds that kill it. Sic em ranger melee and any of it's variations can basically kill a scrapper in seconds. Go on ranger forums and look at the video link please.

>

> A good Spell breaker warrior cc will kill a scrapper. By good I don't mean you don't just spam all skills. You wait for stab to be popped and barrier to be popped. Bulls charge, hundred blade, arching slice, sheldbash. GG scrapper.

 

I'm just a 1400-1500 player, but indeed.

 

I'd say Power Chrono has a much, much higher skill ceiling than Ranger and Warrior and you can do so much more when you master it. Good Power Mesmers in general scares me. *Thankfully* rare?

 

I would say Soulbeast running Sic Em has the most reliable burst if we are talking strictly anti-Bunker Scrapper. If the Scrapper is trying to cap/decap and doesn't get off the node for LoS, the overwhelming burst will come. Power Sic Em Sniper Soulbeast bursts go through blocks and reflects, chews through barrier with 25 might in the best scenario, doesn't let you stealth, allows you to follow up with unmeld pet F2 mini-combo (I recommend Bambi), and either forces all the Scrapper's defensives or kills it dead. Unless you blow your damage into evades or dodges... and even then the burst cycling time is only 28 seconds.

 

Spellbreaker or even just Core Warrior is fine, I don't think I've had it as easy on any other class. Wait out the stab, wait out the barrier while managing to attach the tether, and very soon you'll have a clean shot at a CC chain into Rampage (easiest way, but usual damage is enough anyway) because they have so much AoE you can Daze through their block with Full Counter, and if they dodge after that it's gg. A lot of the time Scrapper players try to stay on the node to contest it for whatever reason, and it makes everything on the Warrior easy to hit, including Eviscerates and Shield Bash.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I remember the ele and guard bunker meta pre-HoT. It was pretty bad.

 

The bunker meta is boring, because it isn't about winning. It is about _not losing._ Very big difference there. It is much better to have a game based around beating the opponent, because then the game is decided by a series of decisive victories instead of non-defeats.

[TorQ.7041]

> @"Ralkuth.1456" said:

> > @"TorQ.7041" said:

> >

> > Scrapper is not immortal. People are just not running builds that kill it. Sic em ranger melee and any of it's variations can basically kill a scrapper in seconds. Go on ranger forums and look at the video link please.

> >

> > A good Spell breaker warrior cc will kill a scrapper. By good I don't mean you don't just spam all skills. You wait for stab to be popped and barrier to be popped. Bulls charge, hundred blade, arching slice, sheldbash. GG scrapper.

>

> I'm just a 1400-1500 player, but indeed.

>

> I'd say Power Chrono has a much, much higher skill ceiling than Ranger and Warrior and you can do so much more when you master it. Good Power Mesmers in general scares me. *Thankfully* rare?

>

> I would say Soulbeast running Sic Em has the most reliable burst if we are talking strictly anti-Bunker Scrapper. If the Scrapper is trying to cap/decap and doesn't get off the node for LoS, the overwhelming burst will come. Power Sic Em Sniper Soulbeast bursts go through blocks and reflects, chews through barrier with 25 might in the best scenario, doesn't let you stealth, allows you to follow up with unmeld pet F2 mini-combo (I recommend Bambi), and either forces all the Scrapper's defensives or kills it dead. Unless you blow your damage into evades or dodges... and even then the burst cycling time is only 28 seconds.

>

> Spellbreaker or even just Core Warrior is fine, I don't think I've had it as easy on any other class. Wait out the stab, wait out the barrier while managing to attach the tether, and very soon you'll have a clean shot at a CC chain into Rampage (easiest way, but usual damage is enough anyway) because they have so much AoE you can Daze through their block with Full Counter, and if they dodge after that it's gg. A lot of the time Scrapper players try to stay on the node to contest it for whatever reason, and it makes everything on the Warrior easy to hit, including Eviscerates and Shield Bash.

 

Yup. Finally some one who understands. Looks like you ll get past 1500 the next season. I am not much higher. 1530-1560.

 

I mainly play ranger scrapper and warrior. Cycle through them depending on comp. Scrap when I see mes, go warrior when I see scrap. I can play Condi mesmer to if it's war. But it's just not fun.

 

I have only been playing for 3 seasons. Yup. For those who think you can't climb, went from silver to gold to plat. Each season.

 

I feel the meta right now is my favorite. There are bunkers, theres dps there's duelists, support, 1 shots. No longer is it just mesmer or boonbeast with fb and necro. That was really boring.

[Ralkuth.1456]

> @"TorQ.7041" said:

>

> Yup. Finally some one who understands. Looks like you ll get past 1500 the next season. I am not much higher. 1530-1560.

Keep practising friend. =)

 

> I mainly play ranger scrapper and warrior. Cycle through them depending on comp. Scrap when I see mes, go warrior when I see scrap. I can play Condi mesmer to if it's war. But it's just not fun.

Those seem to be solid picks for the current meta.

Against Warrior I actually think any class has a decent chance, when I lose it's because I made a lot of obvious mistakes in the 1v1. Also since the current Spellbreaker doesn't run Defense, Rev (and LB/GS Soulbeast) +1s can be hilariously easy unless the Warrior is paying attention and disengaging rapidly once he knows the Roamer is coming in.

 

I have a history of relying on bunker builds. I know my mechanics are not great. To restart everything, I've been focussing on Spellbreaker and trying to get consistent hits in (I didn't know it would become meta after the patch).

I do like most power builds though.

 

> I have only been playing for 3 seasons. Yup. For those who think you can't climb, went from silver to gold to plat. Each season.

Climbing is the most thrilling thing in my opinion, it is effort rewarded, pure and simple. I went from being upset about losing rating, to simply enjoying the learning experience and doing as best I can. I stopped making excuses about builds and lag when I finally realised these excuses are exactly what's holding me back from embracing my failures (and learn from them), and enjoying the game.

I don't know if you'll agree with [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhlUTVE5Ef4 "this video"), but I felt that the mentality does hit home.

 

> I feel the meta right now is my favorite. There are bunkers, theres dps there's duelists, support, 1 shots.

And indeed, this meta is great because there's a bit of everything, and if you have experience in at least a sidenoder/roamer, you have a decent shot at succeeding in the match.

 

> No longer is it just mesmer or boonbeast with fb and necro. That was really boring.

We... we do not speak of that meta.

[TorQ.7041]

> @"Ralkuth.1456" said:

> > @"TorQ.7041" said:

> >

> > Yup. Finally some one who understands. Looks like you ll get past 1500 the next season. I am not much higher. 1530-1560.

> Keep practising friend. =)

>

> > I mainly play ranger scrapper and warrior. Cycle through them depending on comp. Scrap when I see mes, go warrior when I see scrap. I can play Condi mesmer to if it's war. But it's just not fun.

> Those seem to be solid picks for the current meta.

> Against Warrior I actually think any class has a decent chance, when I lose it's because I made a lot of obvious mistakes in the 1v1. Also since the current Spellbreaker doesn't run Defense, Rev (and LB/GS Soulbeast) +1s can be hilariously easy unless the Warrior is paying attention and disengaging rapidly once he knows the Roamer is coming in.

>

> I usually have a lot of different classes set up, but I know my mechanics are not great. I've also been playing too much bunker since launch and it's impeded my decising-making in a fight. To restart everything, I've been focussing on Spellbreaker and trying to get consistent hits in (I didn't know it would become meta after the patch).

> Power Soulbeast/Elixir Holo/Power Reaper/Core Guard I can probably do ok on when switched to, but it feels great to touch on the important basics on Warrior.

> Rev/Thief/Mesmer remain mysteries to me but I'm working on playing better on/against them. At least I can dodge Condi Mirage bursts now! (And I would love to play Rev more.)

> Ele, I simply don't know what to think about Ele.

>

> > I have only been playing for 3 seasons. Yup. For those who think you can't climb, went from silver to gold to plat. Each season.

> Climbing is the most thrilling thing in my opinion, it is effort rewarded, pure and simple. I went from being upset about losing rating, to simply enjoying the learning experience and doing as best I can. I stopped making excuses about builds and lag when I finally realised these excuses are exactly what's holding me back from embracing my failures (and learn from them), and enjoying the game.

> I don't know if you'll agree with [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhlUTVE5Ef4 "this video"), but I felt that the mentality does hit home.

>

> > I feel the meta right now is my favorite. There are bunkers, theres dps there's duelists, support, 1 shots.

> And indeed, this meta is great because there's a bit of everything, and if you have experience in at least a sidenoder/roamer, you have a decent shot at succeeding in the match.

>

> > No longer is it just mesmer or boonbeast with fb and necro. That was really boring.

> We... we do not speak of that meta.

 

Haha I am the opposite. I started with thief full glass. So I am always very careful.

 

Oh. I find that only really rev and mesmer pose a big threat to me as warrior. Ranger pew pew just gotta dodge point blank, sic em and rapid fire. Which has a very obvious animation and he only has 5 seconds usually because of unblockable. Then u close gap asap. He will for sure switch to gs, either smoke assault, gs2 or worldly impact. Which u use sheild block or fc. Now both his bursts are gone Can dagger,sheild bash or bullscharge till u get immo. Landing any of the 3 is gg for him cos he won't survive hundred blades and arc slice.

 

Against boonbeast u have alot of boon rip, going in and out with gs 3, interupts is often enough.

 

I watch his videos too. Not a fan tho cos he's all cocky n such. I think he has some good insight in watching what other people do for sure when u get started . But I also think that it's not entirely true that u do

excatly what they do because the game is situational.

 

Once you know basics you can tweak builds. I ran scrap before the buff and ran off builds. My war doesn't use earth runes. Take strength. The extra bit of healing and prot is nice and all but if u can land can get might stacks, u kill them very quickly. Don't need protection when they are dead.

 

I also think the best 2 things that helped me progress is to know when to run away lol. And picking your fights you can win. As war unless it's game ending I just avoid Condi mes. As scrapper I want to run into their node to constest as much as possible. This is all thru mini map.

 

Just these 2 things really. I am ok not climbing further. I just don't have time. I am happy to stay plat 1 or 2.

[Ralkuth.1456]

> @"TorQ.7041" said:

>

> Haha I am the opposite. I started with thief full glass. So I am always very careful.

>

> Oh. I find that only really rev and mesmer pose a big threat to me as warrior. Ranger pew pew just gotta dodge point blank, sic em and rapid fire. Which has a very obvious animation and he only has 5 seconds usually because of unblockable. Then u close gap asap. He will for sure switch to gs, either smoke assault, gs2 or worldly impact. Which u use sheild block or fc. Now both his bursts are gone Can dagger,sheild bash or bullscharge till u get immo. Landing any of the 3 is gg for him cos he won't survive hundred blades and arc slice.

>

> Against boonbeast u have alot of boon rip, going in and out with gs 3, interupts is often enough.

>

> I watch his videos too. Not a fan tho cos he's all cocky n such. I think he has some good insight in watching what other people do for sure when u get started . But I also think that it's not entirely true that u do

> excatly what they do because the game is situational.

>

> Once you know basics you can tweak builds. I ran scrap before the buff and ran off builds. My war doesn't use earth runes. Take strength. The extra bit of healing and prot is nice and all but if u can land can get might stacks, u kill them very quickly. Don't need protection when they are dead.

>

> I also think the best 2 things that helped me progress is to know when to run away lol. And picking your fights you can win. As war unless it's game ending I just avoid Condi mes. As scrapper I want to run into their node to constest as much as possible. This is all thru mini map.

>

> Just these 2 things really. I am ok not climbing further. I just don't have time. I am happy to stay plat 1 or 2.

 

Thanks for tip with Ranger, I figure I just need to stay calm and evade through the Sic Em buff then stall until he's used up smoke assault and stealths. As long as I can make it through those with CDs up I should have plenty of time to finish off.

 

Boon Beast yeah, just need to make sure Dagger skills land properly and I can interrupt Axe 5 and turn it around with CC -> GS skills.

 

I should use No Escape more (especially with Dagger), that immobilise screws with people hard. Useless in 1v1 if you can't pressure anyway.

 

Haha yes he can come across as fairly cocky, but to me he seems young and there's nothing wrong with confidence as long as it doesn't become blind arrogance.

As for him saying to play exactly as intended, I think it's just extra caution for people who are too caught up with reliance on powerful skills to carry duels.

 

While you (and maybe even I occasionally) would swap out skills and use off-meta builds (I ran LB/GS Soulbeast before WI got the casttime buff), just because we know what we're actually doing and can make them work, subject to enemy comp and terrain and personal playstyle etc., I think he's addressing that statement to people that don't actually know what kind of build they're running and what their role in the match is.

For example, double Thief but refuse to swap, Necro and not mega skilled but look for weak 1v1 matchups, Warrior but follow around teamfights... of course this happens less and less as you climb but it does happen back in silver and gold.

 

I do sometimes take Strength on Warrior if I know who it is I might face on far point, swap between Sword and Dagger if there's a Rev around etc., and yes, Strength Runes give quite a bit more oomph and it's the difference between able to catch someone in a CC -> damage -> Arcing -> Whirlwind and downing them for sure, or having to go after them for another solid hit while they panic blow all their CDs and actually stall for a few more seconds and then the +1 comes and it gets messy.

 

And lol yes, disengaging definitely improved my experience tremedously. I still sometimes invest too much into a fight and find myself unable to notice +1s or when to leave a bad 1v1 or check the minimap for where to go. Which comes to tip 2, it feels great to go into a strong matchup for the build we play, but sometimes we do have to push into Condi Mes if it's near 500 and you're the only one to contest that node. So although it can get icky I do try to do my best in those 1v1s, dodging the Axe 3, Staff 5 and the giant staff ambush balls of death.

 

And man, it's also the same for me - there's simply no time most days for me to sit down and play anymore, and usually it's 2-3 games a day then off to sleep. Commitments but hey, gotta do those.

[Arkantos.7460]

i prefer both with rev ^^