The Sacrifice vs All is Nothing and Aurene's Return [Spoilers]

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> There is a domain tied to creating flesh. Gray skin would have to be skin only in appearance not in substance.

 

None of the Elder Dragon's domains "create flesh". But that's irrelevant since the decay of dead thing is in no way related to magic and I fail to see why you keep insisting that it does.

 

> @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> How do you know that? We find with her without skin and several blunted spines. We need a good before and after for this part.

 

[i see no blunted or broken spines](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Glint_render_01.jpg). Her body's flesh may have decayed, but her body's crystals seem untouched.

 

>

> >

> > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > > Do still believe dragons crystallize on death and that Aurene not doing so is some indication she didn't die or her magic was taken?

> >

> > I never once believed that crystal dragons always crystallize on death. The Shatterer doesn't, despite exploding. I would argue that Glint didn't and instead what flesh she had merely decayed to reveal the crystalline insides (akin to a body who's flesh decayed to the point of just bones).

>

> Vs

>

> > That's likely why her and Vlast's bodies crystallized, they still had magic as they died. Aurene not crystallizing could mean she isn't dead, or it could mean her magic was taken by Kralkatorrik.

 

So you take an old comment from another thread produced from less observation, out of context at that, to suggest that I believed all dragons crystallized on death. [For those who don't want to dig through my comment history](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/804798#Comment_804798), I was merely postulating the possibility that Glint's body wasn't decayed of flesh, but crystallized like Vlast's did before explosion, and that Aurene's lack thereof could mean lack of magic.

 

What I actively believe, and acknowledge the possibility of being wrong, is that Glint didn't crystallize, and Vlast did to explode his body, an active choice and not one born of having a certain level of magic; Aurene's lack of crystallizing merely being the same as Glint's lack of crystallizing.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > There is a domain tied to creating flesh. Gray skin would have to be skin only in appearance not in substance.

>

> None of the Elder Dragon's domains "create flesh". But that's irrelevant since the decay of dead thing is in no way related to magic and I fail to see why you keep insisting that it does.

 

Gray skin is part of the fleshy corruption that makes up the death domain. There are definitely overlapping spheres, but they make sense. Basalt fits in fire and crystal. Skin doesn't match crystal or sky. It is closer to the tooth of Jormag. It isn't corrupted but is deeply magical.

 

>

> > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > How do you know that? We find with her without skin and several blunted spines. We need a good before and after for this part.

>

> [i see no blunted or broken spines](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Glint_render_01.jpg). Her body's flesh may have decayed, but her body's crystals seem untouched.

 

Maybe it's just this picture. Going to replay the story.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Glint.jpg

 

>

> >

> > >

> > > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > > > Do still believe dragons crystallize on death and that Aurene not doing so is some indication she didn't die or her magic was taken?

> > >

> > > I never once believed that crystal dragons always crystallize on death. The Shatterer doesn't, despite exploding. I would argue that Glint didn't and instead what flesh she had merely decayed to reveal the crystalline insides (akin to a body who's flesh decayed to the point of just bones).

> >

> > Vs

> >

> > > That's likely why her and Vlast's bodies crystallized, they still had magic as they died. Aurene not crystallizing could mean she isn't dead, or it could mean her magic was taken by Kralkatorrik.

>

> So you take an old comment from another thread produced from less observation, out of context at that, to suggest that I believed all dragons crystallized on death. [For those who don't want to dig through my comment history](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/804798#Comment_804798), I was merely postulating the possibility that Glint's body wasn't decayed of flesh, but crystallized like Vlast's did before explosion, and that Aurene's lack thereof could mean lack of magic.

>

> What I actively believe, and acknowledge the possibility of being wrong, is that Glint didn't crystallize, and Vlast did to explode his body, an active choice and not one born of having a certain level of magic; Aurene's lack of crystallizing merely being the same as Glint's lack of crystallizing.

 

My comment on Glint exploding was similarly produced with less observation. Regardless, this wasn't a gotcha question. Only that the absence of wings could indicate a lot of missing crystalline mass under your prior assumption.

 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> Gray skin is part of the fleshy corruption that makes up the death domain. There are definitely overlapping spheres, but they make sense. Basalt fits in fire and crystal. Skin doesn't match crystal or sky. It is closer to the tooth of Jormag. It isn't corrupted but is deeply magical.

 

You're warping what this discussion stemmed from. I'd argue with your claim, and say that the color change is not magical, but let's look back at what started this discussion. This discussion was about Glint's skin decaying postmortem. You kept proclaiming some odd thing that her skin decaying must relate to death domain of magic (how you got that, I don't know).

 

Glint's skin wasn't gray. It was blue. Like Aurene's.

 

Glint's skin was normal, natural, at least until her death. Her corpse has no skin.

 

Conclusion: Like any normal, non-magical creature in Tyria and reality, her body began to decompose after death. Her skin, being the few organic parts of her body, would be the first to go. Her crystalline innards would be slowest, as crystal does not easily erode.

 

It's that simple. This has absolutely nothing to do with the death domain, despite you constantly bringing it up.

 

> @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > [i see no blunted or broken spines](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Glint_render_01.jpg). Her body's flesh may have decayed, but her body's crystals seem untouched.

>

> Maybe it's just this picture. Going to replay the story.

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Glint.jpg

 

Same model in those two pictures. The one I linked is from Guild Chat which is isolated, and not part of the crystalline environment that is Glint's lair. The only arguably blunted/broken crystals in that picture on the wiki come from the landscape, not Glint's corpse.

 

> @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> My comment on Glint exploding was similarly produced with less observation. Regardless, this wasn't a gotcha question. Only that the absence of wings could indicate a lot of missing crystalline mass under your prior assumption.

 

The only part of the wings missing is flesh and skin though. Which she is missing throughout her body.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > Gray skin is part of the fleshy corruption that makes up the death domain. There are definitely overlapping spheres, but they make sense. Basalt fits in fire and crystal. Skin doesn't match crystal or sky. It is closer to the tooth of Jormag. It isn't corrupted but is deeply magical.

>

> You're warping what this discussion stemmed from. I'd argue with your claim, and say that the color change is not magical, but let's look back at what started this discussion. This discussion was about Glint's skin decaying postmortem.

 

If branded are corrupted all at once then Glint should have no organic parts left. She was a branded champion. Her whole body, including skin, should be inorganic. It shouldn't have the property of decay any more than it should have the property of wilting, or unfreezing.

 

If her skin/wings didn't break off to be collected by the zephyrites then just stick with them quickly eroding.

 

Edit: Perhaps you mean Glint was only mentally dominanted. And her innards etc are a product of her natural anatomy.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

Okay, I see the "issue". You're presuming that branded corruption **must** remove all organic aspects of the corrupted subject.

 

This, obviously given the repeated examples I've presented of branded humans, charr, and that one branded ogre model, is incorrect. They retain skin, at the very least, as does Aurene, Vlast, and Glint.

 

Their whole body is corrupted at once (you cannot corrupt the insides without corrupting the outside when corruption is an external, non-ingested and non-injected force), but that doesn't mean every single piece is transformed. That skin is corrupted, but it isn't crystal or stone. It's still skin.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> Okay, I see the "issue". You're presuming that branded corruption **must** remove all organic aspects of the corrupted subject.

>

> This, obviously given the repeated examples I've presented of branded humans, charr, and that one branded ogre model, is incorrect. They retain skin, at the very least, as does Aurene, Vlast, and Glint.

>

> Their whole body is corrupted at once (you cannot corrupt the insides without corrupting the outside when corruption is an external, non-ingested and non-injected force), but that doesn't mean every single piece is transformed. That skin is corrupted, but it isn't crystal or stone. It's still skin.

 

And I have been asking "Do you mean untransformed flesh that was irradiated by draconic energy is still considered corrupted?" repeatedly. Examples of visually retaining skin is not a yes or no when the purpose of corruption is to replace.

 

Now. Wouldn't it make more sense for it to erode than decay? Dragon blood and teeth contain properties of their corruption. Why not skin? After all beneath the epidermis would be all the parts of skin that come from the altered innards.

 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > Okay, I see the "issue". You're presuming that branded corruption **must** remove all organic aspects of the corrupted subject.

> >

> And I have been asking "Do you mean untransformed flesh that was irradiated by draconic energy is still considered corrupted?" repeatedly.

 

Nooo.... you haven't been asking that, you asked "are they wholly corrupted" (to which I said yes, probably four times), and just repeatedly gone on about death domain magic with skin decaying.

 

> @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> Now. Wouldn't it make more sense for it to erode than decay?

 

Same god damn concept in the end. That's just bloody semantics that people only care about for technical writing and being annoying.

 

> Dragon blood and teeth contain properties of their corruption. Why not skin?

 

Who said that it didn't? I merely said it seems to remain organic. Unfortunately, we cannot be for absolute certainty, but does it even matter? Does it matter if Glint's body was organic or not?

 

The fact is, the important part is, that by visual appearance, Glint's body didn't crystallize, but rather her "skin" (organic or inorganic) decayed / eroded / what-the-hell-ever over the past 13 years.

 

Everything else is ultimately irrelevant to the discussion. The terminology, the semantics, the magical domain or lack thereof; everything.

 

Vlast crystallized and exploded (to ward off Balthazar, theoretically). The Shatterer exploded (by BFG Tyrian style; then again by unclear forces). Glint remained unchanged (except the wearing down of time). Aurene remained unchanged (for now).

 

This shows there's no solid consistency in the manner of crystal dragon death, so the lack of Aurene crystallizing holds no weight to any theory. Be that fortunately or not.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > Okay, I see the "issue". You're presuming that branded corruption **must** remove all organic aspects of the corrupted subject.

> > >

> > And I have been asking "Do you mean untransformed flesh that was irradiated by draconic energy is still considered corrupted?" repeatedly.

>

> Nooo.... you haven't been asking that, instead you've just repeatedly gone on about death domain magic with skin decaying.

 

It's a quote. Just like: "Given that something like Jormag's tooth required fire magic but was ostensibly not made of ice I raise the question again. Is something corrupted if it's been permanently infused with draconic energy but hasn't physically transformed?'" when I asked again. Responses like "If you look at any branded human or charr, their skin is not crystal nor stone; same is true for Aurene, Vlast, and Glint." Is not an answer to whether their skin is corrupted. And saying the skin changes in the transformation process just adds to the confusion. We get me assuming you believe their skin was not crystal or stone but some other substance under Kralk's control

 

So for the last time. Your current opinion is that it was corrupted, but didn't physically transform. And I guess you would apply that to Kellach as well. Fascinating. We have cleansed corruption for physical, no mental. What do we call this?

 

>

> > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > Now. Wouldn't it make more sense for it to erode than decay?

>

> Same god kitten concept in the end. That's just bloody semantics that people only care about for technical writing and being annoying.

 

One occurs in years the other in decades.

 

>

> > Dragon blood and teeth contain properties of their corruption. Why not skin?

>

> Who said that it didn't? I merely said it seems to remain organic.

 

Cause they seem mutually exclusive unless the property was something like magnetism.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> So for the last time. Your current opinion is that it was corrupted, but didn't physically transform. And I guess you would apply that to Kellach as well. Fascinating. We have cleansed corruption for physical, no mental. What do we call this?

 

Kellach did have physical effects to his corruption. At first, he had purple veins, and at the end he turned into like any other risen.

 

That said, Glint's body decomposing is not cleansing.

 

And I didn't say "didn't physically transform" but rather, 'didn't transform into crystal/stone'. The fact the skin turns color may suggest it does transform. Charr lose their fur, as well, though it's hard to say why this is. Hence my last statements that you completely ignored.

 

> Cause they seem mutually exclusive unless the property was something like magnetism.

 

Stone isn't really a "property of [Kralk's] corruption" though, and almost every branded has stone as part of their body. That would say it isn't mutually exclusive that one part of the body would contain "properties of corruption" while another don't.

 

Besides that, the very fact that branded humans' body, post-corruption, contains crystal, stone, and skin but were corrupted either by a) being engulfed in a branding crystal, b) being struck by branded lightning, or c) being engulfed by Kralkatorrik's golden gale breath rather shows that it cannot be mutually exclusive. All three are external, and would touch the skin first before touching their innards.

 

Based on this, it must be a fact that the skin is corrupted, and it must be a fact that the corruption does not transform into a singular material. Even if one argues "the skin isn't transformed" (which we cannot prove on basic visuals alone), the rest of the body has transformed into either crystal or stone. Or in the Shatterer's case, air as well.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > So for the last time. Your current opinion is that it was corrupted, but didn't physically transform. And I guess you would apply that to Kellach as well. Fascinating. We have cleansed corruption for physical, no mental. What do we call this?

>

> Kellach did have physical effects to his corruption. At first, he had purple veins, and at the end he turned into like any other risen.

>

> That said, Glint's body decomposing is not cleansing.

> And I didn't say "didn't physically transform" but rather, 'didn't transform into crystal/stone'. The fact the skin turns color may suggest it does transform. Charr lose their fur, as well, though it's hard to say why this is. Hence my last statements that you completely ignored.

 

Because losing hair or turning as gray as Branded is something our skin can do without transmuting, or decaying. I wasn't sure whether you meant visual or physical transformation.

 

> > Cause they seem mutually exclusive unless the property was something like magnetism.

>

> Stone isn't really a "property of [Kralk's] corruption" though, and almost every branded has stone as part of their body. That would say it isn't mutually exclusive that one part of the body would contain "properties of corruption" while another don't.

 

Resonating. And it's a property of Kralkatorik "skin". That's how we pierce it.

 

> Besides that, the very fact that branded humans' body, post-corruption, contains crystal, stone, and skin but were corrupted either by a) being engulfed in a branding crystal, b) being struck by branded lightning, or c) being engulfed by Kralkatorrik's golden gale breath rather shows that it cannot be mutually exclusive. All three are external, and would touch the skin first before touching their innards.

> Based on this, it must be a fact that the skin is corrupted, and it must be a fact that the corruption does not transform into a singular material. Even if one argues "the skin isn't transformed" (which we cannot prove on basic visuals alone), the rest of the body has transformed into either crystal or stone. Or in the Shatterer's case, air as well.

 

I agree. But I don't think organic tissue is one of the materials it can become. Next to crystal, sand, stone, lightning, light and air, organic skin just seems weird. It is functionally skin, but physically I look more to something like

.

[Arden.7480]

I think Aurene not exploding and impaled is to show the dread and masacre to us.

 

Glint didnt explode, we see her body in the Mists, she left her memories when she was still alive. Glint wasnt shattered by Kralkatorrik, he simply killed her with his claws or something. Just like Aurene.

 

Vlast exploded because it was Balthazar's will to shatter the Commander's body in milion of pieces, he took the hit so he exploded.

 

If Vlast was killed by Kralkatorrik, I am sure he would impale him as well.

 

That's how he kills, some murderers irl treat their victims as 'art' and they have some dreadful habits, Kralkatorrik is such a murderer.

 

Just look how artistically Aurene's body was pierced.

 

Kralkatorrik is too clever, and his first action was attacking Grenth's domain, in where the spirits find their punishment or reward, I believe Kralkatorrik wanted to prevent Aurene to find a trick to return, as the PC did, so he attacked Grenth's domain.

 

I really hope Aurene won't return as herself, maybe as another being, but not as our companion. And here my speculation about the Pale Tree communing with Aurene kicks in...