Implementing Training Raids in to the game

[phs.6089]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > @"phs.6089" said:

--snip--

>

> So, the suggestion in this thread boils down to, "I don't want to do trial and error with raids as is, I'm unwilling to work up to raids with the learning opportunities currently available and I prefer the developers build a new raid mode so that I don't have to do anything other than queue for that mode."

 

I really want to see that train of thought, that lead to:

'This person is asking for training mode, therefore they don't want to to train trough trials and errors to raid'

I also don't see where OP talks about any kind of que, lfr, etc.

I give up on trying understanding how apples taste like oranges already. The argument that most operate in tread.

Maybe I'm too old for this, I'll go to local library, 15 miles, uphill, in snow... lol

 

 

[8235E844-3CC1-4724-8B86-45]

WAY TLDR but still if it hasn't been said; the game really needs some form of penultimate reward for commanding metas and teaching raids. Currently there is little/no motivator to do so. The results of not having a system that rewards players willing to coach new players in a game designed to be noob friendly above all else are extremely noticeable. They include 1. Constant complaints from Anets 'target audience' surrounding raid accessibility 2. Clear ratios of hard content get lower and lower as about half the (competent) community goes back to a different MMO(its Japanese take a guess) 3-4 weeks after new content drops 3. Elitism to the point where most (competent) players no longer engage with any of the games LFG or chat systems, instead choosing to progress and find guilds/groups/statics through raid/endgame training discords.

I won't suggest a solution as per the user agreement/code of conduct :(

[Miellyn.6847]

> @"runeblade.7514" said:

> > @"Dondarrion.2748" said:

> > Your assumption that training raids would make raids more accessible is wrong. What you need is training guilds - which there are already lots of - and that people actually bother to learn their class, builds. Training guilds in NA and EU have been around for a long time taking sub-optimal groups - albeit mostly according to profession composition - but not necessarily with players kitted out as is optimal. They take time to explain the strat carefully, the group will have tries and wipes are expected because everyone is to learn, and if you want to try a particular mechanic at some boss, you can try that if you let your training raid leader know.

> >

> > THIS is the training mode, raising awareness of such training guilds and learning to beat raids in normal mode is key to making raids more accessible.

> >

> > And a lot more to back the argument here :-

>

> If raids were accessible, we wouldn't need training guilds.

 

Raids are actually more accessible than T4 fractals.

Clearing raids has nothing to do with accessibilty.

But like all others complainging about accessibilty you want to get into the experienced groups without experience. That has nothing to do with accessibilty and is pure selfishness.

[phs.6089]

> @"8235E844-3CC1-4724-8B86-45063AFE57F3.6259" said:

> WAY TLDR but still if it hasn't been said; the game really needs some form of penultimate reward for commanding metas and teaching raids. Currently there is little/no motivator to do so. The results of not having a system that rewards players willing to coach new players in a game designed to be noob friendly above all else are extremely noticeable. They include 1. Constant complaints from Anets 'target audience' surrounding raid accessibility 2. Clear ratios of hard content get lower and lower as about half the (competent) community goes back to a different MMO(its Japanese take a guess) 3-4 weeks after new content drops 3. Elitism to the point where most (competent) players no longer engage with any of the games LFG or chat systems, instead choosing to progress and find guilds/groups/statics through raid/endgame training discords.

> I won't suggest a solution as per the user agreement/code of conduct :(

 

Well said. The game i currently play, vets have to literally hunt noobs and take them around in instanced content, with strict rules preventing abuse, cus they get something for doing, something vets need e.g no longer get reward if 'noob' has 3 full clear in instance./boss kills.

[8235E844-3CC1-4724-8B86-45]

> @"phs.6089" said:

> > @"8235E844-3CC1-4724-8B86-45063AFE57F3.6259" said:

> > WAY TLDR but still if it hasn't been said; the game really needs some form of penultimate reward for commanding metas and teaching raids. Currently there is little/no motivator to do so. The results of not having a system that rewards players willing to coach new players in a game designed to be noob friendly above all else are extremely noticeable. They include 1. Constant complaints from Anets 'target audience' surrounding raid accessibility 2. Clear ratios of hard content get lower and lower as about half the (competent) community goes back to a different MMO(its Japanese take a guess) 3-4 weeks after new content drops 3. Elitism to the point where most (competent) players no longer engage with any of the games LFG or chat systems, instead choosing to progress and find guilds/groups/statics through raid/endgame training discords.

> > I won't suggest a solution as per the user agreement/code of conduct :(

>

> Well said. The game i currently play, vets have to literally hunt noobs and take them around in instanced content, with strict rules preventing abuse, cus they get something for doing, something vets need e.g no longer get reward if 'noob' has 3 full clear in instance./boss kills.

 

Its definitely something to come back to/join a game and know that the lfg system will reward you with kind knowledgeable players which quickly aid with all content, making no dungeon hard to group. What makes me really sad is that there are 3 guilds in gw2 with a custom lfg system for raid and dungeon speed clears that is quite quick and not accessible by 98% of the community. I'm not even talking about the raid training discords... they're a workable band aid.... I guess....

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"phs.6089" said:

> > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > > @"phs.6089" said:

> --snip--

> >

> > So, the suggestion in this thread boils down to, "I don't want to do trial and error with raids as is, I'm unwilling to work up to raids with the learning opportunities currently available and I prefer the developers build a new raid mode so that I don't have to do anything other than queue for that mode."

>

> I really want to see that train of thought, that lead to:

> 'This person is asking for training mode, therefore they don't want to to train trough trials and errors to raid'

 

It should be clear that there are opportunities to learn what's needed to raid. Learn what builds work and how to play them. Learn mechanics. Learn group synergy. Those are the pieces needed, and these can be learned without a special raid mode. This should suggest that the problem the OP wants to solve is not lack of opportunity to learn.

 

A training raid might concentrate those things in one spot. However, suggesting that one is needed is an admission that one is not learning via the existing opportunities. I'll concede that "unwillingness" is a supposition on my part. However, it seems that there is some likelihood that people either think it's too hard to learn as is or they don't haven't looked into how to learn within the current framework. Thus, they want ANet to make it easier for them. To me, that suggests either "unwilling" to take the paths that are currently available, or at least being unwilling to find those paths. Games these days hold players' hands a lot more than they did 15-20 years ago.

 

> I also don't see where OP talks about any kind of que, lfr, etc.

 

This points at the real problem with raid accessibility -- the willingness of players who know how to accept those who are learning. This is the real issue. It was not by accident that both Rift's Dungeon Finder and WoW's LFR use a blind queue system which provides ready-made parties with the necessary trinity roles filled. A training raid without a queue would not solve this problem.

 

Without a queue, players who want to train would be at nearly the same point they are today -- needing to find enough players willing to learn who are also willing to wait around through group formation. At best, a training raid with a separate LFG tab might eliminate drop-in raiders who don't bother to read the tags "training raid," "anything goes," etc. While that might make things a touch easier, it will not eliminate the major problems with learning raids late in their implementation.

 

> I give up on trying understanding how apples taste like oranges already. The argument that most operate in tread.

> Maybe I'm too old for this, I'll go to local library, 15 miles, uphill, in snow... lol

 

My library was 20 miles uphill, through snow, and it was uphill both to get there and get home. I'm definitely old enough that I remember a time when gamers solved their own problems rather than asking the developers to make everything easier for them. Those days, it seems, are fading memories.

[Shiyo.3578]

Game doesn't need training raids, it takes 2 attempts to learn any boss for a normal functioning human being. This games raids are very, very simple.

> @"Tiviana.2650" said:

> WoW has this, its called LFR, despite all the hate you hear, its a very popular mode of raiding.

 

LFR isn't raiding, it's watching a youtube video of the raid.

[phs.6089]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > > > @"phs.6089" said:

> > --snip--

> > >

> > > So, the suggestion in this thread boils down to, "I don't want to do trial and error with raids as is, I'm unwilling to work up to raids with the learning opportunities currently available and I prefer the developers build a new raid mode so that I don't have to do anything other than queue for that mode."

> >

> > I really want to see that train of thought, that lead to:

> > 'This person is asking for training mode, therefore they don't want to to train trough trials and errors to raid'

>

> It should be clear that there are opportunities to learn what's needed to raid. Learn what builds work and how to play them. Learn mechanics. Learn group synergy. Those are the pieces needed, and these can be learned without a special raid mode. This should suggest that the problem the OP wants to solve is not lack of opportunity to learn.

>

> A training raid might concentrate those things in one spot. However, suggesting that one is needed is an admission that one is not learning via the existing opportunities. I'll concede that "unwillingness" is a supposition on my part. However, it seems that there is some likelihood that people either think it's too hard to learn as is or they don't haven't looked into how to learn within the current framework. Thus, they want ANet to make it easier for them. To me, that suggests either "unwilling" to take the paths that are currently available, or at least being unwilling to find those paths. Games these days hold players' hands a lot more than they did 15-20 years ago.

>

>

There is lack of training if such topics keep poping up. By saying lack I mean not enough. I didn't see anything OP asked besides an opportunity to get bit easy training.

Where they can pug on the time they play and as many time and they can/want.

Training raids and guild provide 1-2 run per week, mostly on weekends.

Now when I was learning fractals for instance, I would go hop on dailies 2-3 times a day if I was playing to get that muscle memory, memorize bosses attacks etc.

Do you see what I mean, when I say raids lack training options.

And as someone mentioned if it wasn't that bad, we wouldn't need training guilds