Taygus.4571 Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 > @"Shabari.1504" said: > I grumbled at first learning of the collection of the map currency, then think you are going to get your mount once you finished to find out you have to go for another collection of 28 different maps........ > But after learning the Skyscale is tied into the new Legendary Accessory it all made some sense for the grind of the mount. <3 Only if you plan on going for the ledgie trinket? could they not have added this grind specifically to the ledgie trinket instead? Getting 5 map currency from one heart is rediculously slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmirkDog.3160 Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > as such we can assume that approximately 13-16% of the GW2efficiency active accounts have unlocked the Skyscale. If we correct slightly down for less hardcore players, it is reasonable to assume that around 10% of the player base have unlocked the mount by now. > ... > This is a decent mid- longterm project for casual gamers and doable. For people having issues with gathering map resources, there is multiple guides and suggestions how to tackle each map. I think the part you're missing is people will do it anyway even if they hate it. And "doable" by your standards (you mention playing for 3 hours a day, hello? do you really think everyone will be doing that?) doesn't make it good game design. It's simplistic and lazy. The collection for getting treats, where you have to go to various different maps to fight different enemies for a (fairly generous) RNG drop? That was cool. I thought that part was fun and not overly grindy, even when some of them refused to drop. 250 of each map currency is lazy and the last thing I would call fun. A mount in an expansion where mounts are The Big Thing shouldn't be a "longterm project" for casual gamers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witch of Doom.5739 Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 > @"Derdzvero.7051" said: > > Absolutely. There's no excitement in the air, no jokes in chat or jumping/posing shiny characters around. It's a dead mood. > > Heck, even medicine collection, which requires 30 escort mindless events is boring as... it's a real pity though, level design, graphics, art - all beautiful as always by Anet.. just that game design..omg that game design.. I seem to observe people getting on the maps, getting the currencies as fast as they can (hearts, events) and then leaving. Agree -- no excitement, just dogged grinding. That's my impression, anyway. Heck, today -- a weekend! -- couldn't even find enough people in Jahai Bluffs to finish events. Fail after fail after fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 > @"SmirkDog.3160" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > as such we can assume that approximately 13-16% of the GW2efficiency active accounts have unlocked the Skyscale. If we correct slightly down for less hardcore players, it is reasonable to assume that around 10% of the player base have unlocked the mount by now. > > ... > > This is a decent mid- longterm project for casual gamers and doable. For people having issues with gathering map resources, there is multiple guides and suggestions how to tackle each map. > > I think the part you're missing is people will do it anyway even if they hate it. And "doable" by your standards (you mention playing for 3 hours a day, hello? do you really think everyone will be doing that?) doesn't make it good game design. No, I do not. Hence why I mentioned it is doable within 1 week of 1 hour per day play (or over a longer time period, but it certainly is not undo-able) . It is even easier with multiple daily resets since the fastest methods for acquisition reset daily. I also do not expect rewards and achievements to have to be handed out within a couple of days after being added, which is why I called this a good mid- to longterm goal. Also small note, if you had read carefully, those 3 hours per day were for the trinket, not the mount. Which included 3k Krakatite Ore farming, which took up at least half the time, which I also mentioned. > @"SmirkDog.3160" said: > It's simplistic and lazy. The collection for getting treats, where you have to go to various different maps to fight different enemies for a (fairly generous) RNG drop? That was cool. I thought that part was fun and not overly grindy, even when some of them refused to drop. 250 of each map currency is lazy and the last thing I would call fun. A mount in an expansion where mounts are The Big Thing shouldn't be a "longterm project" for casual gamers. The collection is intended to encourage play across all season 4 maps. This is now the case. More play across all season 4 maps is good for the game. The currencies can be acquired in multiple different ways. If you are unwilling to play this game to get the rewards you want, you are playing the wrong game in the wrong genre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dami.5046 Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 250 of each currency is a grind? Wow some of you have been spoilt. It takes a few seconds to quickly gather a node. next season try it now and again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taygus.4571 Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 > @"Dami.5046" said: > 250 of each currency is a grind? Wow some of you have been spoilt. > It takes a few seconds to quickly gather a node. next season try it now and again. and most nodes offer 1 of the currency and have a daily limit. It's repetitive and dull. Id have preferred more "do this event/boss" quests than repeat hearts over and over for 5 nap currency..and mine for 1 map curency per node, and the daily cap is low. Its jus boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaoda.1653 Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 I thought 250 of each was quite fair. To be honest I was expecting the worst - something around 400 of each currency. Now THAT to me, would be over the top. I do think the amount of time to unlock the Skyscale mount with all the hunts and stuff (even WITH guides) was way too much. I had the time to unlock it, but not everyone has the luxury of that. I would say it was more tedious, if not equally as tedious, than unlocking the Griffon mount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmirkDog.3160 Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > The collection is intended to encourage play across all season 4 maps. This is now the case. More play across all season 4 maps is good for the game. The currencies can be acquired in multiple different ways. If you are unwilling to play this game to get the rewards you want, you are playing the wrong game in the wrong genre. It's temporary. It's a band-aid fix for ANet's problem of making old zones completely useless to players and leaving them barren. And no, you have it wrong. I'm unwilling to play a game that's been gradually going back on its claims over the years to become a grindfest disguised as an MMO. I've done 'longterm goal' type things in other MMOs that were more interesting than "get this currency, then that one, then this one, etc.". This step of the collection is insanely boring and poorly thought out and again, shows that they're just trying to keep the S4 maps busy for slightly longer instead of making a collection that makes sense. They're more interested in keeping people playing than the players actually having fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 > @"SmirkDog.3160" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > The collection is intended to encourage play across all season 4 maps. This is now the case. More play across all season 4 maps is good for the game. The currencies can be acquired in multiple different ways. If you are unwilling to play this game to get the rewards you want, you are playing the wrong game in the wrong genre. > > It's temporary. It's a band-aid fix for ANet's problem of making old zones completely useless to players and leaving them barren. > > And no, you have it wrong. I'm unwilling to play a game that's been gradually going back on its claims over the years to become a grindfest disguised as an MMO. I've done 'longterm goal' type things in other MMOs that were more interesting than "get this currency, then that one, then this one, etc.". This step of the collection is insanely boring and poorly thought out and again, shows that they're just trying to keep the S4 maps busy for slightly longer instead of making a collection that makes sense. They're more interested in keeping people playing than the players actually having fun. Yes, it is a band-aid fix. Better than no fix at all. Spare me the grind fest nonsense. You are perfectly capable to play this game without the mount. You are perfectly able to play this game without heavy gear grind. If you want to play a MMO, then accept that there are longterm goals associated with these games to accommodate the speed with which players consume content. This literally seems more like a disconnect between the type of game genre and you not actually wanting to play it. Fun is subjective. While some vocal minority on the forums enjoys to complain, most people actually playing the game are enjoying the increased activity, at least from what I have heard from guild mates who are both done or still working on the collection. You are correct, Arenanet is making the players play the game and while they give people options in how to acquire some goals, they won't be able to cater to every personal taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasimir.6239 Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 > @"SmirkDog.3160" said: > And "doable" by your standards doesn't make it good game design. It's simplistic and lazy. Simplistic and lazy by your standards doesn't make it bad game design. It's an extensive quest involvinge a large variety of gameplay, including hide-and-seek/scavenger hunt content, random drops, resource investment, minigames and more. If you don't want to play the game but only to get the rewards that's what I'd call simplistic and lazy. The quest for the skyscale is a lot of things, but simplistic and lazy definitely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior.3928 Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 > @"Rasimir.6239" said: > > @"SmirkDog.3160" said: > > And "doable" by your standards doesn't make it good game design. It's simplistic and lazy. > Simplistic and lazy by your standards doesn't make it bad game design. It's an extensive quest involvinge a large variety of gameplay, including hide-and-seek/scavenger hunt content, random drops, resource investment, minigames and more. > > If you don't want to play the game but only to get the rewards that's what I'd call simplistic and lazy. The quest for the skyscale is a lot of things, but simplistic and lazy definitely not. So first set of collections are almost identical (the scavenger hunt content), scale scale and eggs could have been less items but more engaging than just find 30 items. Second set was visit old meaningful places, perfectly fine with that, in fact liked it, but it's another scavenger hunt and not all that different from the first set Third set is, as you called it, resource investment, which was disproportionate as some weren't as lucky to have the time-gated resource on hand (but anet changed it due to feedback) Fourth set jumping puzzles and minigames, I actually liked the ball one and hope we get a ball as an item so we can do the minigame anywhere at any times as it could be a good time-killer between events and time gates. Fifth set with the final two collections. The saddle which is another phrase for "we know you dislike it but please spend more time here", to be honest that's my problem for liking hot maps way more than pof ones. And the flight which again is another scavenger hunt, not very different from the first set I don't mind the mount being hard to get, but it isn't. Wouldn't mind the mount requiring even more map resources if so many collections weren't alike. Tedium of going to 100 places just to press f when at least half of them are meaningless, is lazy design (as someone already pointed it out, it's how mobile games work). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfinnr Sleggja.1209 Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 I was in the "reduce to 150" camp when i voted...but now I am on the fence with still reduce, or leave it be. We all have to remember...once you do the heart, you can buy 5x of said currency with karma from that heart vendor. Now I know that doesn't speed things up by much...but it can...however...it also lends itself to the timegate issue, as you can only do the hearts once a day. I know, metas also drop these currencies in bulk...but you only can do those for the big rewards 1x per day. Hence my dilemma...even if you reduce it...you don't cut down the timegate by much. I know they have patched the wait periods and such...but i already went through those before they were changed...so it is what it is. Also keep in mind, as a player...I gathered these currencies to get what I wanted/needed when the maps were first released (and after as I went back to pick up minis, gadgets, and recipes...and once I had them...I stopped...so I get it...it renewed map activity...and I have enjoyed that. Its been fun to play them again with enough people to succeed in a meta. So I guess, going forward, I would say keep the currencies as a need...but lower their amount to say 150, and add in another component to the price...and maybe add another 1-3 "drop items" from defeating a specific, tough, boss on a map. Really...in regards to this...YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkeyspit.3965 Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 I finished the skyscale last Friday, but forgot the I voted. I voted to reduce it, ultimately, not because it's hard to get 250 of each (it isn't), but that I firmly object to this mount collection be treated like a legendary weapon collection. To my mind, only legendary items required a full stack of 'every' relevant currency. I'm not going to rehash what I've said multiple times about this collection. ANET went overboard, and I don't want to see future mounts, whether they be mid-season or final season rewards, be treated like legendary items. Mounts are not legendaries, and my hope is that no future mount collections be designed as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echostorm.9143 Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"SmirkDog.3160" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > The collection is intended to encourage play across all season 4 maps. This is now the case. More play across all season 4 maps is good for the game. The currencies can be acquired in multiple different ways. If you are unwilling to play this game to get the rewards you want, you are playing the wrong game in the wrong genre. > > > > It's temporary. It's a band-aid fix for ANet's problem of making old zones completely useless to players and leaving them barren. > > > > And no, you have it wrong. I'm unwilling to play a game that's been gradually going back on its claims over the years to become a grindfest disguised as an MMO. I've done 'longterm goal' type things in other MMOs that were more interesting than "get this currency, then that one, then this one, etc.". This step of the collection is insanely boring and poorly thought out and again, shows that they're just trying to keep the S4 maps busy for slightly longer instead of making a collection that makes sense. They're more interested in keeping people playing than the players actually having fun. > > Yes, it is a band-aid fix. Better than no fix at all. Spare me the grind fest nonsense. You are perfectly capable to play this game without the mount. You are perfectly able to play this game without heavy gear grind. If you want to play a MMO, then accept that there are longterm goals associated with these games to accommodate the speed with which players consume content. > > This literally seems more like a disconnect between the type of game genre and you not actually wanting to play it. Fun is subjective. While some vocal minority on the forums enjoys to complain, most people actually playing the game are enjoying the increased activity, at least from what I have heard from guild mates who are both done or still working on the collection. You are correct, Arenanet is making the players play the game and while they give people options in how to acquire some goals, they won't be able to cater to every personal taste. You seem pretty sure about who is in the minority and what percent of people are enjoying things. You also seem happy to tell other people how they should think about MMOs. It must be nice to know so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taygus.4571 Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 I originally voted for them not to reduce the currency.... but I'm finding it really disheartening. this temporary fix to population numbers was not well thought out. and it is temporary. It's going to take me a couple of weeks to get this done..but time it takes I don't really mind.. Its how kitten boring hearts are to do over and over..and some take too long to do. Its just not fun. They should make it easier to earn map currency through events...I mean really.. why do most events not really give you anything? That would be more fun..and boost population numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrolicus.3716 Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 As I write this, I am very close to finishing the Saddle collection, and I can honestly say that I did not enjoy this damn collection. _At. All._ I am totally exhausted with this damn collection. I will not change my opinion, this was extremely abusive, it is sad to know that they do not care about our opinions, that they will do it again one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dediggefedde.4961 Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 I also think it's a bit too much. Not because a couple of Stacks of those materials is worth more than the mount. But I did all the other collections. All the collections, all the magic hot-spots, egg hunt, curing adult skyscales that are dying soon anyway... I fed the mount with treats bigger than the mount itself was. Or is... I did all the jumping puzzles and meta-events. When the new maps came out, I did the meta a couple times. Sometimes I needed the map currency, so I did it again. But this amount of grinding does not look like fun to me. Since I'm a main WvW player, and just recently finished warclaw, I will use the reward tracks. I'm really grateful that these exist and also give map currencies. I would still prefer to use other reward tracks, though, since legendary armor and the new trinket sound interesting to me. ^^ Since I do one thing after the other, I will not start with the trinket before finishing the skyscale. ... and doing sandswept reward track 5 times alone will take a couple days for me. ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 > @"Echostorm.9143" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"SmirkDog.3160" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > The collection is intended to encourage play across all season 4 maps. This is now the case. More play across all season 4 maps is good for the game. The currencies can be acquired in multiple different ways. If you are unwilling to play this game to get the rewards you want, you are playing the wrong game in the wrong genre. > > > > > > It's temporary. It's a band-aid fix for ANet's problem of making old zones completely useless to players and leaving them barren. > > > > > > And no, you have it wrong. I'm unwilling to play a game that's been gradually going back on its claims over the years to become a grindfest disguised as an MMO. I've done 'longterm goal' type things in other MMOs that were more interesting than "get this currency, then that one, then this one, etc.". This step of the collection is insanely boring and poorly thought out and again, shows that they're just trying to keep the S4 maps busy for slightly longer instead of making a collection that makes sense. They're more interested in keeping people playing than the players actually having fun. > > > > Yes, it is a band-aid fix. Better than no fix at all. Spare me the grind fest nonsense. You are perfectly capable to play this game without the mount. You are perfectly able to play this game without heavy gear grind. If you want to play a MMO, then accept that there are longterm goals associated with these games to accommodate the speed with which players consume content. > > > > This literally seems more like a disconnect between the type of game genre and you not actually wanting to play it. Fun is subjective. While some vocal minority on the forums enjoys to complain, most people actually playing the game are enjoying the increased activity, at least from what I have heard from guild mates who are both done or still working on the collection. You are correct, Arenanet is making the players play the game and while they give people options in how to acquire some goals, they won't be able to cater to every personal taste. > > You seem pretty sure about who is in the minority and what percent of people are enjoying things. You also seem happy to tell other people how they should think about MMOs. It must be nice to know so much. Yes, because MMOs are very new, have not been around for decades even as MUDs initially and no MMO ever has had problems with content delivery or players rushing through content. /s When you decide to complain, at least use proper facts. As to who is in the majority? I don't actually care. You know why? Because Arenanet will have their internal metrics and a whinny forum thread is not going to change those (while it will reinforce some people's assumption that everything is terrible because people enjoy going to forums to complain and find like minded complainers). If they deem it necessary to change something, they will. So far, given completion rates, given even this very threads poll, I'm not seeing it so I wouldn't hold my breath. Then again, I do not have access to Arenanet's data, nor to their internal design and plan for the mount and how fast they want it across how many players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mytee.4752 Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 I see NO reason for the huge boring , horrible grind for the rep crap! The claim that you would get 1/2 from doing the living season 4 was a lie. I received ). I have bought nothing with rep and yet am facing a huge grind after hours of struggling though the crap to get to the end. I see NO reason for the rep other then lazy programing. I was going to buy something like skins and extra bank space but this made me change my mind. I have been playing for several months and this is the worst grind I have ever done in any game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmirkDog.3160 Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 > @"Rasimir.6239" said: > Simplistic and lazy by your standards doesn't make it bad game design. It's an extensive quest involvinge a large variety of gameplay, including **hide-and-seek/scavenger hunt content, random drops, resource investment, minigames and more.** > > If you don't want to play the game but only to get the rewards that's what I'd call simplistic and lazy. The quest for the skyscale is a lot of things, but simplistic and lazy definitely not. You're fighting against an argument I'm not making. My problem is the saddle collection, not the hide-and-seek, random drops, etc. So let me make this extra clear for you, in bolded text: **The saddle collection is bad and lazy, separate apart from the rest of the collections that I've stated are good, and have actually used as part of my argument of why the saddle collection is bad by comparison. Saying to just get 250 of each map currency is lazy and unimaginative compared to the rest of the collections required to get the Skyscale. Read all of what I said or don't both arguing with me.** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim West.3194 Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 If the Skyscale was a decent mount then I would have no problem with the effort. But in it's current form the Skyscale is garbage. I wouldn't use it if it were given away free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krzysztof.5973 Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 Next LS is in 3-4 months and from crafting Aurora you should already expect by now that there may be something added to the game that requires LS4 currency with last episode being Dragonfall. You had 1,5 year to from release of first episode to start farming towards something. With such a big spaces of time between episodes there should be something to work on. It's not that much. You have content to play. They have more legendaries to introduce, and mounts. Get ready for the next time, you will be prepared on day 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graymalkyn.8076 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 > @"Shabari.1504" said: > I grumbled at first learning of the collection of the map currency, then think you are going to get your mount once you finished to find out you have to go for another collection of 28 different maps........ > But after learning the Skyscale is tied into the new Legendary Accessory it all made some sense for the grind of the mount. <3 If the legendary came with the mount, I would agree with you...but it's a whole separate grind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derdzvero.7051 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Doing a heart (carry robot parts, hitting a dummy with a stick, etc.) for several days, 30 times a day and calling that content and long term goal? There is a medical term for that and it's not something good and healthy. Wouldn't be surprised if EU bans such whale-inspiring games next, after loot boxes/gambling stuff.. It's 2019 and some are thinking of traveling to Mars, if you haven't noticed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 > @"Derdzvero.7051" said: > Doing a heart (carry robot parts, hitting a dummy with a stick, etc.) for several days, 30 times a day and calling that content and long term goal? There is a medical term for that and it's not something good and healthy. Wouldn't be surprised if EU bans such whale-inspiring games next, after loot boxes/gambling stuff.. > It's 2019 and some are thinking of traveling to Mars, if you haven't noticed... Or just buy the 5 currency per day in Dragonfall for 50 days and get the mount with no more than 1 minute of interaction per day. What exactly is your rush? The next Living World Episode is around 3 months out. You can also buy the 5 map currency and gather from some ones home instance for 8 resources per day, which reduces the time required to 31 days. All this with starting from scratch and 0 map currency. Or play spvp and wvw and get the currency via the reward tracks. Or play the maps regularly, do the metas and gather the currency that way. Your problem is: you want the reward immediately and are complaining about the vastly increased effort that takes, when there is perfectly viable methods of getting the mount with minimum interaction over a rather limited period of time. Yes, it is 2019, and some people's entitlement for instant gratification and inability to set personal goals with multiple different approaches at hand is still lacking. I guarantee you, those people thinking about going to Mars did not come up with that Idea 2 weeks ago and have a ton of longterm goals and milestones setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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