PvP build without GS or Spellbreaker?

[Sobx.1758]

Not scripted. In fact, I'd say for a pvp game being able to respond to what your opponent does is better than the alternative.

Also "balance" is mostly a lie. Which mmo is so perfectly balanced that there are no better or worse choices, meta picks etc?

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> Not scripted. In fact, I'd say for a pvp game being able to respond to what your opponent does is better than the alternative.

> Also "balance" is mostly a lie. Which mmo is so perfectly balanced that there are no better or worse choices, meta picks etc?

 

Well, there are lots of alternatives. Sure, you want to be able to respond to what your opponent does but if I can already anticipate what that is, I call that scripted. Maybe you don't like that term; I won't get into a pedantic argument about what you would like to call that. There are lots of alternatives to what this game offers for PVP and they also include being able to respond to my opponent; I don't think I've played a game where you couldn't do things to counterplay opponent moves. I think we shouldn't pretend that what is being offered here is the best you can get if it's true what people say about choosing gear.

 

I don't know of a perfectly balanced MMO that does what you ask ... I do know I've played MMO's where skill as a player mattered more than the gear I took or the skills I had. I would argue those are better competitive PVP games. The best PVP games (not necesarily MMO's) are the ones where your gear and choices are irrelevant; 100% player skill determines the winner. Admittedly, that's a little boring and out of line with the concept of character development most MMOs offer but what I'm hearing is that this game almost approaches the opposite end of that spectrum.

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > Not scripted. In fact, I'd say for a pvp game being able to respond to what your opponent does is better than the alternative.

> > Also "balance" is mostly a lie. Which mmo is so perfectly balanced that there are no better or worse choices, meta picks etc?

>

> Well, there are lots of alternatives. Sure, you want to be able to respond to what your opponent does but if I can already anticipate what that is, I call that scripted. Maybe you don't like that term; I won't get into a pedantic argument about what you would like to call that. There are lots of alternatives to what this game offers for PVP and they also include being able to respond to my opponent; I don't think I've played a game where you couldn't do things to counterplay opponent moves. I think we shouldn't pretend that what is being offered here is the best you can get if it's true what people say about choosing gear.

 

If someone chooses to just follow "the script" (/rotation/whatever) then obviously it can be predictible, it's the same in almost any other game and I don't think what I'm saying is pedantic, because it's really not about the choice of the word. Not sure what's your point here. Nobody tells you or anyone else to follow the rotation, it's not a raid boss dps refining and it's hard to be ""mad"" about people knowing the game, classes and their playstyles. It's the same in other games. If you know what to expect from the opponent and he doesn't, you're already ahead and you'll have better reaction times. I think that claiming that "other GOOD games" don't encounter the same situation on higher rank pvp is untrue.

 

> I don't know of a perfectly balanced MMO that does what you ask ... I do know I've played MMO's where skill as a player mattered more than the gear I took or the skills I had. I would argue those are better competitive PVP games. The best PVP games (not necesarily MMO's) are the ones where your gear and choices are irrelevant; 100% player skill determines the winner. Admittedly, that's a little boring and out of line with the concept of character development most MMOs offer but what I'm hearing is that this game almost approaches the opposite end of that spectrum.

 

Exactly, you can't, because there's almost always "THE WAY" to play the game. Does it mean you can't succeed in any other way, with any other weapon or build? Nope. Does it mean that the optimal builds and playstyles don't exist? Nope. When someone goes on the forum and asks about the "pvp builds", they're usually asking about the "opitimal way to play x", there's nothing wrong about that. You can play what you want, but lets stop pretending that multiplayer games are perfectly balanced and meta picks/builds don't exist.

 

Also I'd say that if the choice didn't matter, then what's even the point of offering any. In what games choices don't matter? Any multiplayer pvp game has some kind of meta or preferred choices, be it rpg, moba or even "classless" shooters. What you pick or buy does matter, which doesn't mean you can't win in any other way. Some ways are just better/more optimal, so why would we pretend they're not? He can play what he wants, but having GS at least as a swap weapon is usually optimal.

 

 

[Obtena.7952]

I don't think I'm being obtuse here or asking a question that has no answer ... my question is the same one the OP has, just worded different ... How significant is gear choice to the outcome of some PVP match up?

 

I claimed being unpredictable is important, so equipping less used weapons could be an advantage. About 5 people told me that is crazy ... yet in other MMO's I've played, it's a completely reasonable strategy that works. So if those people are correct (I don't know if they are), it's less about skill and more about the 'right choices'. I'm not asking about optimal builds or claiming there is perfect balance ... those are things you are bringing into this conversation that I'm going to ignore because even if there is or isn't optimal builds and perfect balance, the question is still relevant and it's still the question the OP is asking.

 

Sounds like the answer is basically "VERY".

[Zexanima.7851]

> @"Romgaard.1965" said:

> Is it possible to create a viable build without GS or Spellbreaker to compete in PvP?

> Looked at metabattle and every build have GS or spellbreaker...

 

Core warrior is solid. If you're not running GS I would suggest Mace/Axe. Why? Another block on Mace 2 to bandaid not having an evade, though GS WWA is far superior in damage and damage mitigation. Axe 5 will help with damage and somewhat replace GS 5 with the speed increase, but again it will be subpar to GS. You also have access to more stuns and quickness, which is nice. Skull Crack -> Axe 4 -> Axe 5 isn't a bad combo if you're opponent doesn't have stun breaks.

 

[Here is a link to the build I would suggest.](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQRApX3ejEdQnHW2BehAnIGICM8EkDWB6XY6FDsAwHcAA-jpwWABAs/gulBAA "Here is a link to the build I would suggest.")

 

I'm not saying this build is equal to a GS Spellbreaker, if both players are of same skill this build I gave will certainly lose. It is however playable and you should be able to win a good amount of fights if you play smart.

 

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> I don't think I'm being obtuse here or asking a question that has no answer ... my question is the same one the OP has, just worded different ... How significant is gear choice to the outcome of some PVP match up?

>

> I claimed being unpredictable is important, so equipping less used weapons could be an advantage. About 5 people told me that is crazy ... yet in other MMO's I've played, it's a completely reasonable strategy that works. So if those people are correct (I don't know if they are), it's less about skill and more about the 'right choices'. I'm not asking about optimal builds or claiming there is perfect balance ... those are things you are bringing into this conversation that I'm going to ignore because even if there is or isn't optimal builds and perfect balance, the question is still relevant and it's still the question the OP is asking.

>

> Sounds like the answer is basically "VERY".

 

Ah, ok. So the answer is still the same and I think it's included in my previous post/s: you can play and succeed however you want, there are still optimal builds in this game just like in any other (which you can't name, but still claim that meta/builds/choices don't matter in "them", whatever it is). The metabattle lists "optimal" or "most played" builds according to "someone" or just builds that "someone bothered listing and making a short guide for". That's all there is to it. Weapon choice matters here and everywhere else, doesn't mean you can't succeed with any other.

Swapping a weapon to something else isn't "being unpredictable" as you're the one that started talking about "pro players". As such, claiming that you can win a match just beacuse you swapped a weapon and "surprised someone" is false. It miiiiight surprise someone in the first encounter, but by itself it won't win the match against who knows the game, so it's irrelevant to even mention the "surprise factor" here imo.

 

So yeah, I actually forgot there's a question asked in the first post:

Is it possible to create a viable build without GS or spellbreaker to compete in pvp? Yes. But as someone who needs to go to the metabattle to get **someone's build**, you (OP) probably can't -at least for now.

[Paradox.2018]

I do love Axe playstyle.. so i take spb A/A and M/S to boonstrip, axe 3 and bolas are excellent to chase ppl with a low recharge, the counter is the stability dependant, but with endure pain and a stomp combo it can hurt... really funny to play..

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > @"Romgaard.1965" said:

> > Is it possible to create a viable build without GS or Spellbreaker to compete in PvP?

> > Looked at metabattle and every build have GS or spellbreaker...

>

> Core warrior is solid. If you're not running GS I would suggest Mace/Axe. Why? Another block on Mace 2 to bandaid not having an evade, though GS WWA is far superior in damage and damage mitigation. Axe 5 will help with damage and somewhat replace GS 5 with the speed increase, but again it will be subpar to GS. You also have access to more stuns and quickness, which is nice. Skull Crack -> Axe 4 -> Axe 5 isn't a bad combo if you're opponent doesn't have stun breaks.

>

> [Here is a link to the build I would suggest.](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQRApX3ejEdQnHW2BehAnIGICM8EkDWB6XY6FDsAwHcAA-jpwWABAs/gulBAA "Here is a link to the build I would suggest.")

>

> I'm not saying this build is equal to a GS Spellbreaker, if both players are of same skill this build I gave will certainly lose. It is however playable and you should be able to win a good amount of fights if you play smart.

>

 

This is probably the best reply. Run OH axe and either MH mace for the stuns, or MH sword for the gap closer. The other weapon set I would suggest X/shield for more defense, or a ranged weapon to deal with kitters.

 

Skull Crack -> Axe 4 -> Axe 5 is good if you lead with come other CC(s) to fish out the stun breaks.

If you take Sword instead then Sword 2->Axe 4 ->Sword3 or Sword 2 -> Axe 4 ->Axe 5 are nice combos as well. If you run core then you can lead those with F1 and cancel the animation with weapon stow.